Tuesday, 2013-10-08

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sarobhelo peoples13:58
alagalahHi13:59
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sarob#startmeeting training-manuals14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  8 14:00:04 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-manuals)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals'14:00
sarobi have been a bit disconnected this last couple of weeks14:00
sarobi have no agenda14:00
sarobi almost have the pandoc python wrap script done though14:01
alagalahExcellent, I was going to ask14:01
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alagalahI just did a pull, I see tools/validate.py14:02
sarobit clones repos, pulls updates, converts, and then some extra cleanup14:02
colinmcnamaracolin here14:02
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sarobvalidate.py is the gate script14:02
colinmcnamarasorry about being late. still getting started14:02
sarobno prob14:02
alagalahHi Colin14:02
sarobi forgot to post an agenda14:02
sarob:(14:02
colinmcnamaraGood morning Keith14:02
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colinmcnamaraproposed topics14:03
alagalahSo is the training-labs/Scripts stuff for VirtualBox deployment?>14:03
colinmcnamaraProgress14:03
colinmcnamaraBlocking Items14:03
colinmcnamaraFocus work for next week14:03
colinmcnamaraxml include location14:03
colinmcnamaraincluding non xml content14:03
sarobi was just babbling about the rst convert script14:03
sarobright14:03
sarob#topic progress14:03
*** openstack changes topic to "progress (Meeting topic: training-manuals)"14:04
colinmcnamaralet me pull the burndown board real quick14:04
sarobspeak to me oh oracle of the kanban14:04
colinmcnamaraTotal Cards: 13714:04
colinmcnamaraRemaining Cards: 7414:04
colinmcnamaraDone Cards: 6314:04
colinmcnamaraPercent of cards done: 45.99%14:04
colinmcnamaraHours at start: 8014:04
colinmcnamaraHours est total: 13714:05
colinmcnamaraHours remaining: 7414:05
colinmcnamaraHours done: 6314:05
colinmcnamaraPercent of hours done: 45.99%14:05
colinmcnamara--------14:05
colinmcnamaraDays Elapsed 3714:05
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colinmcnamaraDaily Burndown 1.714:05
colinmcnamaraEst. Days Left 4314:05
colinmcnamaraEst. Completion Date 11/20/1314:05
colinmcnamaraso, compared to last week14:05
colinmcnamaralast week we had 60 cards done14:05
colinmcnamarathis week we have 63 cards done14:05
sarobpoop14:05
colinmcnamarathough I don't think that pranav's scripts were tracked in a card14:05
colinmcnamarabig thing is, we added two cars14:05
colinmcnamaracards14:05
colinmcnamarahttps://BurndownForTrello.com/share/9c3rfd2fu9 - chart14:06
colinmcnamaraso, our estimated completion date pushed14:06
sarobohhh14:06
sarobpretty14:06
sarobim less bummed now14:06
dguitarbitehi14:06
colinmcnamarabasically pushed out a week or two14:06
sarobhey pranav14:06
colinmcnamarahello pranav14:06
dguitarbitehey guys14:07
colinmcnamarawe want the blue line going down, and the red line going up14:07
colinmcnamaraideally matching the slope of the yellow line14:07
colinmcnamaraour daily burndown rate is still ok at 1.714:07
sarobwe need to double check our story at this point14:08
colinmcnamaraexplain?14:08
sarobwhat are we teaching associate or rather14:08
sarobwhat will we be testing the assoc knowledge14:08
sarobsome of these cards could get pushed to operator14:09
colinmcnamaracould or should?14:09
sarobor dev14:09
sarobwell im not sure14:09
colinmcnamaraI still think that mapping to the basic installation guide is just that14:09
colinmcnamarabasic14:09
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sarobi havent gone through the 'story'14:09
colinmcnamaraand if I was going to look at the over all progress14:09
colinmcnamarathe biggest limiter we have right now is concepts14:09
colinmcnamarawe are pretty much completely through the task items14:09
alagalahWhich is all RST right ?14:10
colinmcnamaraonly a few of the horizon admin tasks remain14:10
colinmcnamaracorrect14:10
colinmcnamarathe RST to XML translation14:10
colinmcnamarawe should probably switch topic14:10
colinmcnamarato that14:10
colinmcnamaraI'd say that is the most critical item for this weeks work14:10
sarob#topic rst xml convertion14:10
*** openstack changes topic to "rst xml convertion (Meeting topic: training-manuals)"14:10
sarobnice spelling14:10
colinmcnamaraclose enough14:10
dguitarbitebeat me in spellings :O14:10
colinmcnamaraso, if we can't get the conversion working right now14:11
colinmcnamaramy vote, go ahead with manual inclusion of certain dev docs and diagrams14:11
colinmcnamarawith an xml note in the section pointing to the root content14:11
dguitarbiteI agree14:11
sarobim very close to publishing the convertion script14:11
dguitarbitealthough RST integration would have deeper impact on many other Maven based projects14:12
dguitarbitesarob: is the code public ?14:12
colinmcnamaramy preference is to have a converter14:12
sarobi havent pushed it yet14:12
colinmcnamarahow close are you sean? I wasn not able to solve the problem14:12
colinmcnamaradoes it test locally?14:12
sarobi will do it this morning14:12
colinmcnamarak14:13
alagalahIf you push it, let me know and I'll have a crack at it on my end tonight14:13
colinmcnamarasame here14:13
sarobim using reg expressions to match and mod content14:13
colinmcnamaras/h1/section/g ?14:13
colinmcnamaraetc14:13
sarobas long as the tags dont change we should be good14:13
colinmcnamarais it grabbing the images too?14:14
sarobs/article/section/g14:14
sarobi havent gotten to images yet, but yes it shouldnt be a prob14:14
alagalahCouldn't we leave the images alone with absolute reference? Or are we worried about RST content changing ?14:14
colinmcnamarathe asolute reference points to an external repo. probably best to pull them in in the gross import14:15
colinmcnamarae.g. import Nova dev docs, Neutron Dev docs, Cinder Dev docs, etc all into a local directory in training guides14:15
colinmcnamaramake it easy for the other contributors14:16
alagalahSo pull in all the RST content locally into training-guides, convert to XML and relative reference to the images?14:16
sarobthe script clones and pulls updates14:16
sarobso you want the cloned repos within our repo?14:17
sarobfor image ref14:17
dguitarbite?14:17
colinmcnamaraI think that would be best for now14:17
dguitarbiteare you talking about repo inside repo?14:17
colinmcnamaranot the full repos, but the dev docs directory14:17
sarobi could add in coping the image directories and update the image tags14:18
sarobinstead14:18
dguitarbiteahh ... I guess its better to get the images locally14:18
colinmcnamaraalso, one other thing14:18
sarobright now i have the repos all outside in the local repo root and only the xml in our repo14:18
alagalahSo clone the RST DevDocs into a temp repo, convert to XML into the training-guides and copy the images ?14:19
colinmcnamaraso, sean14:19
colinmcnamaraI agree with that statemtn14:19
sarobthats what i was thinking14:19
colinmcnamaraonly xml in our repo (xml and images)14:19
alagalahMakes sense14:19
dguitarbitewe could reuse the images rather than make another copy14:19
sarobthe script will pull down updates, convert the rst to xml, copy the images14:19
dguitarbitekool14:20
colinmcnamaraso, we can add that as a manual step in the repo14:20
sarobill have to figure out the image tag pattern matching, should be okay14:20
colinmcnamaraand then add it as a build step later14:20
ekarlsowhy do people like xml over rst ? :|14:20
colinmcnamaraso, the tags14:20
dguitarbiterst is not as powerful as XML14:20
colinmcnamararemember anne talked about about tagging images and tables with section id's14:20
ekarlsook14:20
sarobhmm, could do it14:21
sarobmake the code a bit more complicated14:21
dguitarbiteanalogous to difference between JavaScript and Java14:21
colinmcnamarawell, push the first push14:21
sarobprob need another card for that feature14:21
sarobbut a good idea14:21
dguitarbitesarob we can do that feature in the next iteration14:22
colinmcnamarajust thinking forward to generating the presenter led content14:22
sarobyeah14:22
colinmcnamaraso, if we have that conversion done14:22
colinmcnamaratool done14:22
dguitarbiteit will be simple hack to get the section ids into place14:22
alagalahSarob: you just using regex or the docutils library ?14:22
colinmcnamarathen that removes a huge block14:22
sarobpython regex14:22
alagalahDid you look at docutils ?14:22
sarobnope14:22
alagalahok14:22
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colinmcnamaradocutils has some interesting stuff, but not a rst2docbooks14:23
colinmcnamarathere is a rst2xml.py script though14:23
alagalahBut you should be able to parse out the RST tags and replace with XML if you find your RegEx fails, regardless was just curious14:23
dguitarbitealagalah it needs some rigorous testing then14:24
sarobthe rst2xml.py script is where?14:24
alagalahhttp://docutils.sourceforge.net/tools/rst2xml.py14:25
colinmcnamarasudo port install docutils14:25
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sarobcool, prob has the pattern matching i need to add14:25
sarobthx14:25
sarob#topic blockers14:26
*** openstack changes topic to "blockers (Meeting topic: training-manuals)"14:26
alagalahCard#114 ... still relevant?14:26
alagalah(blockers)14:26
colinmcnamarathat can be moved to done14:27
alagalahOk who did it so I can re-assign?14:27
sarobi could update the script as well14:28
sarobanything else?14:28
colinmcnamaralet me check my notes14:29
sarobi guess the rst to xml conversion script is a blocker14:29
colinmcnamaraI'd say that is the only blocking item14:29
colinmcnamaranext topic?14:30
sarob#topic next week focus14:30
*** openstack changes topic to "next week focus (Meeting topic: training-manuals)"14:30
sarobid like to start on the quiz and test formatting14:31
colinmcnamaraso, think we should try to get all the task oriented cards completed so we can chek for flow14:31
colinmcnamarasean, sanity check14:31
sarobthat sounds good too14:31
alagalahIf the script works tonight I'll grab some more cards that require RST14:31
sarobcool14:31
colinmcnamarashouldn't the quiz come from the concepts and tasks?14:31
sarobyup, but im talkin format14:32
sarobnot content14:32
colinmcnamaramaybe we can get Rev to throw some idea's together14:32
colinmcnamarai know he does that for a living right?14:32
alagalahfront end surveymonkey.com ?14:32
colinmcnamararemember, online, printed pdf, instructor led14:33
colinmcnamaraprobably best to just go old school14:33
colinmcnamaralist of questions, answer key seperate14:33
colinmcnamaraout of that people can derive the testing engines14:33
sarobsounds like a good idea to start14:34
dguitarbiteyep14:34
colinmcnamaraand I would guess that since the foundation is managing the cert program, that someone puts a quiz engine tied to openID on openstack.org14:34
sarobjust expand the tables there now14:34
dguitarbitewe do not need to host a testing engine or system14:34
dguitarbitejust the content14:34
sarobah, that sounds good14:34
sarobokay solution found14:34
colinmcnamaraold school :)14:35
dguitarbiteold school :)14:35
sarobso whats xml include location topic?14:35
colinmcnamaraoh, I pulled from last weeks14:35
sarobconvertion script output dir?14:35
colinmcnamaraprobably can ignore that14:35
colinmcnamarajust wanted to get the meeting going in an orderly fashion ;)14:36
sarobroger roger14:36
sarobso anything else troops?14:36
colinmcnamarayeah14:36
colinmcnamaraI popped the google hangout into imovie and created a how to contribute to openstack-training videio http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qz5NrbFfRi814:37
dguitarbitenice14:37
sarobsweet14:37
dguitarbitehow does youtube let you host 2 hour long videos?14:37
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colinmcnamarayou have to have a verified account14:38
dguitarbiteok14:38
colinmcnamaraand then go into settings and request extended access14:38
colinmcnamarathe hangout+live ended up there automatically14:38
dguitarbitealrite thanks14:38
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colinmcnamaraI then downloaded the hangout live locally, edited it to focus on content and then pushed it up after work yesterday14:39
sarobmaster of the video art14:39
alagalahI've written a gdoc with step by step too for my own use. Not as good as the video, but if someone just wanted a quick prompt cheat sheet14:39
colinmcnamaraawesome14:39
colinmcnamaralet's all get that information out into the wild14:39
sarobsounds like a great add to the user group howto14:40
alagalahYeah I'll tighten it up and perhaps put it on the wiki14:40
colinmcnamarathe biggest challenge we have is increasing the number of video's14:40
colinmcnamaraerr not video's14:40
colinmcnamaracontributors14:40
dguitarbitelol14:40
alagalahWhat happened to other Meetups contributing ?14:40
sarob#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStackUserGroups/HowTo14:40
alagalah(apart from all the awesomeness that is Aptira)14:40
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colinmcnamarawelcome to OpenSource and User Groups14:40
sarobbaby steps14:40
colinmcnamarabasically have to hit critical mass, then everybody says they want to participate14:41
dguitarbiteyeah14:41
alagalahNo worries, just asking14:41
colinmcnamaraas you can see, this is actual work14:41
colinmcnamarait is hard actual work14:41
alagalahSarob: want me to amend the wiki ?14:41
alagalah(from that link) ?14:41
sarobamend away14:41
sarobyup14:41
colinmcnamaraoh, I have one more topic14:41
dguitarbiteits very hard to get people14:41
alagalahIs there a howto amend the howto :-P14:41
alagalahI'll unicast you, Sean14:42
colinmcnamaraclick the edit button on the wiki14:42
dguitarbiteyea also need to change the IRC meeting timing on Wiki .. ill do it14:42
sarobits moinmoin wiki14:42
sarobthx14:42
colinmcnamaraso, another proposed topic - whitespace checks14:42
sarobjust log into the wiki and select edit from the top of page14:42
alagalahack got it now14:43
sarobanyone can edit any page on wiki.openstack.org14:43
sarob#topic whitespace checks14:43
*** openstack changes topic to "whitespace checks (Meeting topic: training-manuals)"14:43
colinmcnamaraso, you may have noticed a non-voting stage in jenkins now14:43
colinmcnamaracalled niceness14:43
colinmcnamarait checks for whitespace and empty lines14:43
sarobi never claimed to be nice14:44
colinmcnamarayou will get a -1 one, that won't stop a build14:44
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colinmcnamarait caught some white space in the user-includes template as well as my section files14:44
colinmcnamarathat I went and fixed14:44
sarobcool, thx14:44
colinmcnamaraI ended up pushing a few patches for mycommit14:44
colinmcnamaraI didn't however go back through the other cards and clean them up14:45
dguitarbiteplease confirm IRC meeting on Tues at 14:00 UTC14:45
dguitarbiteIm bad with time ... so need to verify14:45
sarobyeah 1400 utc14:45
sarobtuesday14:45
dguitarbitek thansk14:45
colinmcnamaraI propose that as reviewers we treat the niceneness check as a strict check, and push back (unless it is timely) and request a 2nd patch to fix whitspace issues14:45
alagalahWhy the polgrom on whitespace?14:45
alagalahDoes having it break something?14:46
colinmcnamaracoding standards in the project14:46
alagalahHmmmm interesting. Fair enough then.14:46
colinmcnamaraand whenever possibly I would like us to confirm to the larger coding standards and methodologies of OpenStack as a whole14:47
colinmcnamarait was a simple change on my end to fix it. took 5 minutes14:47
colinmcnamaraI had a couple tabs and a blank line14:47
alagalahWell yeah, of course. Seems like an odd standard since whitespace increases code readability but greater minds than I have determined it's evil so we should comply14:47
sarobyour compliance is noted14:48
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sarobanything else guys?14:48
alagalahI live to serve14:48
colinmcnamaraspaces and tabs at the end of lines don't make anything easier to read14:48
colinmcnamara;)14:48
colinmcnamaraeither way, wanted to discuss is14:48
colinmcnamarait14:48
alagalahAh14:48
colinmcnamarabefore pushing back on reviews14:48
colinmcnamarawell, other then my own14:48
alagalahAck ...14:49
sarob                 what                        do                             mean?14:49
alagalahDo we need to redo existing cards?14:49
dguitarbitewhite spaces are bad for compiles have to read them14:49
dguitarbiteit reduces load on the infra14:49
colinmcnamaragood point pranav14:49
sarobvalidate.py wont check already merged xml14:49
alagalahpython :)14:50
colinmcnamaramy vote is not to go back and clean stuff up whitespace yet. Just to be a bit more rigorous moving forward14:50
alagalahNot. Compiled. :)14:50
alagalahhehehehe14:50
alagalahGot it14:50
dguitarbitehey guys14:50
dguitarbitelets keep the white spaces as low hanging friuts14:50
dguitarbite*fruits14:51
alagalahYou mean for new contributors? Great idea14:51
sarobsounds about right14:51
dguitarbiteyes14:51
colinmcnamaragood idea14:51
dguitarbitesaves us some manual task14:51
colinmcnamaragreat idea pranav14:51
colinmcnamarahave them log a bug for whitespace in files14:51
colinmcnamaraand then clean it14:51
dguitarbiteyep14:51
sarob#info whitespace and orphaned tabs to be logged as bug14:52
alagalahHmmmm, I've never logged/resolved a bug so I may take one to fix to understand that process if thats ok?14:52
sarob#action sarob push convert rst xml scrpit today14:52
sarobalagalah: happy to help14:53
sarobinstructions are in the operators guide14:53
alagalahack14:53
alagalahthank you14:53
sarobanything else?14:53
colinmcnamarai'm good14:54
sarobpranav?14:54
dguitarbitewe need to discuss the course syllabus once14:54
dguitarbiteduring the summit14:54
sarobsure14:54
colinmcnamaraagreed14:55
dguitarbiteand I may have some feedback based on actual teaching14:55
dguitarbitein India14:55
sarobi think we should reaccess the syllabus for all four books14:55
sarobsweet14:55
dguitarbitehopefully before the summit \m/14:55
alagalahre-assess14:55
sarobsuper critical to have teaching feedback14:55
alagalahMr SpellCheck14:55
alagalah:-P14:55
dguitarbite:D14:56
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sarob#action review books syllabus at summit14:56
colinmcnamaraagree on getting feedback from a delivered class14:56
dguitarbiteyes, very important to know how good is the content delivery14:57
alagalahJust for cross-reference...14:57
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sarobwe should setup a monkey survey and add link to the cource14:57
sarobcouse14:57
sarobarrgg14:57
alagalah#vBrownBag has a Couch to OpenStack series (#C2OS) I'm going to go through: http://openstack.prov12n.com/about-couch-to-openstack/14:57
dguitarbiteyep, even something similar in kong to know what other experts say abotu it14:58
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alagalahIt may serve as a sanity check14:58
sarobwhich what?14:58
colinmcnamarathat's cody's series14:58
alagalahyes14:58
colinmcnamarahe's been hovering around our project14:59
colinmcnamarabut, to be direct14:59
colinmcnamarait kinda competes with the books he has been releasing14:59
colinmcnamaraso I don't expect much participation14:59
colinmcnamarauntil we hit critical mass14:59
colinmcnamarathat is a common theme by the way14:59
colinmcnamarapeople keep focusing on putting out single release content14:59
sarobyup15:00
colinmcnamarathat ends up full of bugs, and dated within 6 months15:00
colinmcnamarabut, their name is on it15:00
colinmcnamaravs treating training and learning as open source15:00
dguitarbitewe are on an iterative model, tracked and stuff ... lets just hope they contribute to the official docs eventually15:00
colinmcnamarathey will15:00
colinmcnamaramy bet15:00
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colinmcnamarais15:00
colinmcnamarawhen the course get out and are being delivered in the larger community15:01
sarobthey will all come over to the dark side15:01
colinmcnamarayup15:01
colinmcnamarathat will be the critical mass15:01
colinmcnamaraand15:01
colinmcnamaraif and when the foundation figures out the cert program15:01
colinmcnamaramy assumption is that it will be based of this content15:01
colinmcnamaraor at minimum alighned15:01
colinmcnamarathen again, more people will jump on15:01
sarobive got a hard stop15:02
sarobanymore training biz15:02
alagalahI'm good15:02
colinmcnamaraI'm good15:02
dguitarbiteim good15:02
dguitarbitewrap up ?15:02
sarobsweet, thx for the great meet guys15:02
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sarobsee ya in the funny papers15:02
dguitarbitethanks all15:02
sarob#endmeeting15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)"15:03
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  8 15:03:05 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:03
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_manuals/2013/training_manuals.2013-10-08-14.00.html15:03
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_manuals/2013/training_manuals.2013-10-08-14.00.txt15:03
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_manuals/2013/training_manuals.2013-10-08-14.00.log.html15:03
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lifelessmorning19:01
lifeless#topic tripleo19:01
lsmola_hello19:01
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shadowerhey19:01
jistrhi :)19:01
ifarkashi19:01
lifeless#startmeeting tripleo19:01
marioshello19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  8 19:01:34 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lifeless. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:01
jtomasekhey19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tripleo'19:01
jog0o/19:01
tzumainnhiya19:01
rpodolyaka1o/19:01
dprincehi19:02
jcoufal_o/19:02
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derekh\o/19:02
lifeless#topic agenda19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:02
lifelessincoming19:02
lifeless     bugs19:02
lifeless    reviews19:02
lifeless    Projects needing releases19:02
lifeless    CD Cloud status19:02
lifeless    CI virtualized testing progress19:02
lifeless        Discuss latest comments on LXC+ISCSI bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc/+bug/122685519:02
lifeless    Insert one-off agenda items here19:02
lifeless    Managing blueprints - migrate them all to tripleo?19:03
lifeless    Tuskar mailing list - what to do with it?19:03
lifeless    Reviews and +2 on something you fixed up19:03
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lifeless    open discussion19:03
lifeless#topic bugs19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:03
lifeless#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/19:03
lifeless#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/diskimage-builder/19:03
lifeless#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/os-refresh-config19:03
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lifeless#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/os-apply-config19:03
lifeless#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/os-collect-config19:03
lifeless#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tuskar19:03
lifeless#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/tuskar-ui19:03
lifeless#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-tuskarclient19:03
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lifelesswe have just one critical bug this week19:05
lifeless\o.19:05
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lifelesshttps://bugs.launchpad.net/python-tuskarclient19:05
lifelessthis is fantastic19:05
lifelesshttps://bugs.launchpad.net/python-tuskarclient/+bug/121388219:05
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lifelesspylint is deprecated, I've submitted a patch for openstack-info/config to remove it19:05
lifelessbut python33 is in need of support19:05
jistryeah so last time we checked with pblaho, it wasn't possible bc of dependencies19:06
jistrbut i think it might be time to try again :)19:06
lifelessif it's an oslo problem, we should fix it in oslo and get a release made19:06
lifelessbut when I looked at the failure log, there was non python 33 stuff in python-tuskarclient itself19:07
pblahoI think there was problem with some python-*client19:07
pblahoyeah, you are right...19:07
pblahobut it is not that much of stuff...19:07
lifelessso, we have a choice19:07
lifelesswe can delete the 33 job and say 'not yet'19:07
pblahosome time ago I started to clean it but stopped due to deps19:07
lifelessor someone can step up and drive it to completion - going into deps as needed19:08
lifelessIs someone interested in getting it done?19:09
jistri'd say try to fix it for py33 and if we hit the wall really hard, then we say 'not yet'. I'd like to have it py33 ready but i don't want to burn Red Hat time on that if it turns out it's too soon.19:09
jistr.. as we have other priorities19:09
lifelessfair enough!19:09
jistrso sign me up for investigation and hopeful fix ;)19:10
lifelesscool19:10
pblahomaybe me.. but... question if we should introduce deps on git commits/tags....  b/c we may need new release of smth19:10
lifelessanyone have pet 'high' bugs they want to talk about?19:10
lifelesspblaho: if we need a new release of something else in openstack, help that project do it's release.19:10
lifelesspblaho: if we need someting outside of openstack, same thing usually :), but we shouldn't dep on git commits/tags - we can't release like that and expect folk to package it19:11
pblaholifeless: yeah... makes sense (git tags...)19:11
rpodolyaka1lifeless: not sure, how important this is https://bugs.launchpad.net/tuskar/+bug/1236703 , but it would be nice to here what you guys think about this one19:11
lifelessrpodolyaka1: I think it's high19:12
lifelessrpodolyaka1: I've triaged it19:12
lifelessrpodolyaka1: it's the sort of thing we really need a clear story on before expecting users to use it19:12
pblahopy33 thing - for interested - my previous work on it https://github.com/petrblaho/python-tuskarclient/tree/python-2to319:12
pblaho^ little outdated :-)19:13
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lifelesspblaho: yeah, fwiw most folk use 'six' within OpenStack to do python 3.3 stuff.19:13
rpodolyaka1lifeless:  I believe, we should look into "auth via keystone -> give Tuskar API your token" direction?19:13
rpodolyaka1lifeless: I think, this is what Nova does e.g. to talk to Glance/Neutron/etc on behalf of a user19:14
lifelessrpodolyaka1: I think it's something like this: if tuskar will be taking independent actions, then it should have it's own specific account19:14
lifelessrpodolyaka1: if it won't be, then yeah via keystone.19:14
jistrpblaho: ah sorry i rushed into it, i forgot you have it halfway through. We can arrange who's going to tackle it further based on immediate priorities.19:14
lifelessrpodolyaka1: it's not clear to me yet which case we're on;19:14
lifelessrpodolyaka1: also, remember there may be many overclouds19:14
lifelessrpodolyaka1: so it really /cannot/ be in the config file19:14
pblahojistr: no problem at all19:14
rpodolyaka1lifeless: agree19:15
lifelessrpodolyaka1: may want to capture this into the bug log19:15
lifelessok, any other high bugs to discuss?19:15
lifelessalso, please remember to do bug triage? pretty much everyone can do triage...19:15
lifelessok19:16
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lifeless#topic reviews19:16
*** openstack changes topic to "reviews (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:16
lifeless    http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/tripleo-openreviews.html19:16
lifeless    http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/tripleo-reviewers-30.txt19:16
lifeless    http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/tripleo-reviewers-90.txt19:16
* SpamapS is here now19:16
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SpamapShelps if phone that alerts you to "all the things" is turned on19:16
lifelessI want to talk about the health of the project as far as reviews are concerned - not about how much any single reviewer is diong19:16
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lifelessand here's the key statistic:19:17
lifeless    Average wait time: 0 days, 8 hours, 20 minutes19:17
lifeless    Median wait time: 0 days, 6 hours, 7 minutes19:17
lifeless    Number waiting more than 7 days: 019:17
lifelessWhich I think is pretty good.19:17
Ngthat reads well. be nice to get comparisons with other projects for context19:18
rpodolyaka1this is really good, comparing to what we could see in Nova a few months ago19:18
matty_dubs+1, that beats my experiences with Horizon by a good bit but I don't know actual numbers19:18
lifelessthis is nova today:19:18
lifeless    Average wait time: 3 days, 23 hours, 12 minutes19:18
lifeless    Median wait time: 2 days, 11 hours, 39 minutes19:18
lifeless    Number waiting more than 7 days: 2019:18
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lifelesshttp://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/horizon-openreviews.html for horizon19:18
lifeless    Average wait time: 15 days, 1 hours, 15 minutes19:18
NgI'm a bit worried that we're letting too many regressions through19:18
lifeless    Median wait time: 7 days, 4 hours, 15 minutes19:18
lifeless    Number waiting more than 7 days: 1619:18
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SpamapSAverage wait time: 1 days, 15 hours, 16 minutes Median wait time: 0 days, 21 hours, 4 minutes Number waiting more than 7 days: 019:18
SpamapSthats Heat19:19
SpamapSwith about the same number of contributors/developers19:19
SpamapSs/developers/core-reviewers/19:19
jcoufallooks that we have very good numbers19:19
lifelessso lets keep this ticking along - good stuff19:19
lifelessright now 1/3 of reviews are awaiting a review19:19
lifelessbut I suspect thats fine19:19
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lifelesswe have a discussion going on on the list about -core reviewers and metrics etc; lets keep that on the list.19:20
lifelessanything else for reviews?19:20
lifelessNg: oh regressions: better testing/CI19:21
lifelessNg: defense in depth; review carefully of course, but defense in depth.19:21
Nglifeless: indeed, I'm also a little less worried than I might be because we're not very mature yet19:21
shadowerlifeless: elaborate please19:22
shadower"defense in depth"19:22
matty_dubs++19:22
lifelessshadower: use multiple different layers to achieve your goal19:22
lifelessshadower: the goal of 'less regressions' -> review, + more/better CI, + see if we can detangle the architecture to make review simpler...19:22
shadowerright19:23
SpamapSWe're pretty shallow at the moment, with mostly reviewers standing in the way, but toci has been fired up again, and we are aiming at gating of course.19:23
lifelessok,19:23
lifeless#topic  Projects needing releases19:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Projects needing releases (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:23
lifelessdib, tie, occ19:24
lifelessI think19:24
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lifelesstuskar folk - I don't know this yet - can we do releases of tuskar and python-client?19:25
SpamapSocc has one commit, but it is somewhat important. :)19:25
lifelessI know they aren't finished, but 0.0.1 etc will getit out there19:25
lifelessensure that the 'do releases' codepath works19:25
mariosSpamapS: still waiting for that nova patch afaik (baremetal id vs uuid)19:25
matty_dubspardon my ignorance; what is occ?19:25
Ngos-collect-config19:25
lifelessalso, is tuskar-ui something we can release19:25
jistrclient is fairly complete if we talk about python bindings, CLI is not19:25
lifelessspecifically, if we cut a release and someone pip installs, will it do something reasonably sane ?19:26
matty_dubsNg: thanks; didn't recognize it by its acronym19:26
SpamapSmarios: I'm not sure I understand what you mean.19:26
lifelessjistr: yeah, we might want completeness for 1.0.0, but not for19:26
lifeless'get a release done'19:26
pblaholifeless: w/r/t pip install ... I agree with jistr that client if ok as of python bindings19:26
Ngmatty_dubs: occ, oac and orc are the trifecta of configuration leverage :D19:26
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jcoufaltuskar-ui has some major missing parts, which blocks user from building overcloud19:26
jistrok. it still makes sense to release it that way, e.g. so that tuskar-ui can depend on a released version and not fetch from github19:27
lifelessjcoufal: thats ok, release doesn't indicate completeness19:27
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mariosSpamapS: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48453/19:27
shadowerjcoufal: still? What's missing?19:27
lifelessjcoufal: release indicates installability, and not worse that the previous release ;)19:27
jcoufalshadower: I believe still racks/groups creation19:27
mariosSpamapS: tuskar needs this19:27
jcoufallifeless: sounds fair19:28
pblahojistr: +1 for depending on released version and not on git19:28
shadowerlifeless: it should be releasable as a lib you install alongside horizon and then configure the latter19:28
lifelessok19:28
shadowerdepends on tuskar and python-tuskarclien obviously19:28
lifelessso - how about we try to release all three tuskar things as 0.0.1 today and see what breaks19:28
SpamapSmarios: ok, it confused me that you addressed that comment to me. :)19:28
lifelessand file bugs if it doesn't release properly19:28
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pblaholifeless: bug driven development? I alwayswanted to try it :-)19:29
lifelesspblaho: bugs to track the failure :)19:29
lifelessSpamapS: how do you feel if I ask you to do that?19:29
lifelessSpamapS: audit * for releases, JFDI it all ?19:29
SpamapSlifeless: a combination of happy and nonchalence. :)19:30
jcoufallifeless: I believe it might help to get stuff synchronized, I would say let's try it19:30
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lifelessany one 'releases' business?19:30
pblahowhat jenkins jobs it will require? releasing to pypi / tarball ... docs19:30
mariosSpamapS: oh sorry mate it was meant for lifeless but screen scrolling too fast19:30
SpamapSlifeless: +119:30
lifelesspblaho: yeah, we may find the first thing is fixing up the infra config19:30
lifelesspblaho: in which case SpamapS will file appropriate bugs in the *tuskar* projects19:30
lifelesspblaho: I'm asking SpamapS to poke at this as he's done it for most of the tripleo projects - polished knowledge19:31
pblahocool19:31
lifelessok19:31
lifeless#topic  CD Cloud status19:31
*** openstack changes topic to "CD Cloud status (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:31
lifelessSpamapS: jog0: I'm out of date as of last night ;P19:32
SpamapSlifeless: we're deploying continuously19:32
lifelesswoo19:32
SpamapSwe don't report if it failed19:32
lifelessso the two cards under 'current MVP' can be moved to done ?19:32
SpamapSand we don't test if it is even working19:32
SpamapSbut it "finishes"19:32
SpamapSlifeless: I noted two reviews that should land so we can do it again from scratch, then I think yes19:32
lifelesscool19:33
lifelessok so19:33
lifelessshould we open the next MVP19:33
lifelessor do a bit of improving reliability / decreasing fragility first19:33
jog0SpamapS: will it halt at least?19:33
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lifelessjog0: it won't halt :)19:34
SpamapSjog0: no19:34
SpamapSnever19:34
SpamapSwhen this train explodes, we just send another train19:34
SpamapSwe have lots of trains19:34
lifelessI'm inclined to suggest we open the next MVP up - stateful upgrades19:34
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lifelessbecause until that's done, it's kindof hard to suggest people /use/ this19:35
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lifelessand any improvements we make either reliability or otherwise are wasted19:35
lifelessthoughts?19:35
jog0I think we should get tempest and warning about failures done first19:35
lifelesshttps://trello.com/b/0jIoMrdo/tripleo btw for everyone19:36
SpamapSactually right now the deploy is "finishing" but then we are seeing a permission denied ssh'ing in for the last bits of overcloud setup19:36
lifelessthis is the kanban board for the cd deployed overcloud the tripleo project is running19:36
derekhbeen working on tempest  Ran 2259 (+1472) tests in 2314.086s (+1605.471s)19:36
derekhFAILED (id=3, failures=190 (-33), skips=51)19:36
SpamapSlifeless: I don't feel that mvp0 is done until we at least have a way to know if the last deploy worked.19:36
lifelessderekh: cool! perhaps push it up even as a WIP so folk can run with it ?19:36
jog0SpamapS: ++19:36
lifelessderekh: with the dense collaboration around features, follow-the-sun handoff is likely to be a thing19:37
derekhlifeless: ok will do19:37
lifelessjog0: warning about failures ++19:37
lifelessjog0: I am torn about tempest19:37
lifelessjog0: though it's right up there19:37
lifelessjog0: how about we log a status to another file19:38
lifelessjog0: e.g. '*********** deploy-overcloud failed **********'19:38
lifelesswith a timestamp19:38
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jog0how else d o we know our overcloud is fully operational19:38
lifelessthen we can tail that file (and put it on anonymous http)19:38
Ngwe need an IRC bot!19:38
lifelessNg: toci has one19:38
Ng:)19:39
SpamapSlifeless: I'm tempted to suggest that we shift responsibility to jenkins from the very nice while; true loop.. just so we can observe the CD process.19:39
derekhNg: https://github.com/openstack-infra/tripleo-ci/blob/master/toci_functions.sh#L6719:39
SpamapSlifeless: not as a blocker, but as a control for extra little helper things like "write to a status file"19:39
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Ngderekh: haha, wow19:40
pblahoderekh: wow.. that is really sofisticated bot... nice19:40
lifelessSpamapS: so it's probably a weeks work to get zuul in our environment : we need to write something to sync project metadata from openstack19:40
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Ngthat is the first IRC bot I've seen written in sh :D19:40
lifelessSpamapS: plus the easier bits of install and configure zuul19:40
SpamapSman19:40
SpamapSjust when I thought I had established "we don't need zuul"19:41
SpamapSyou say we need zuul.19:41
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lifelessSpamapS: you mentioned jenkins19:41
lifelessSpamapS: maybe I misunderstood19:41
SpamapSI'm just saying replace while; true and writing to a status file and irc botting and ... <insert all the other things jenkins already does> with jenkins.19:41
lifelessah19:41
SpamapSI don't see it as a time sink but as a "lets not spend our time pimping out our temporary jenkins/zuul shim"19:42
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lifelessI'd be very worried about keeping jenkins feed and -secured-19:42
lifelessfed19:42
SpamapSyeah thats fair.19:43
lifelessif we had it in it's own node, we could respin the image as a meta-loop19:43
lifelessI think it's too big a step right now19:44
SpamapSanyway, I'll table it19:44
SpamapSshelve it even19:44
lifelessso lets not spin here: tempest is in progress19:44
lifelesswe can do something super simple to capture status19:44
lifelessand derekh's toci bot seems brilliant for this too19:45
lifelessMore code in toci that CD wants: derekh can we move that to incubator? I'm more and more thinking we need a 'feedbackloop' dedicated project, separate from CI, but I may be wrong19:46
lifelesssynthesis from above:19:46
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lifeless - stay on MVP1 one until folk can tell easily whether it broke recently or nto19:46
lifeless - must have success/fail19:46
derekhlifeless: moving it ok with me19:46
SpamapSyeah because actually it is breaking19:46
* mordred walks in an sees weird conversation about running jenkins19:46
SpamapSracing with sshd starting and cloud-init finishing, I think19:46
lifelessok19:47
lifeless CI virtualized testing progress19:47
lifeless#topic CI virtualized testing progress19:47
*** openstack changes topic to "CI virtualized testing progress (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:47
lifelesspleia2 is going well with the etherpad we started at the sprint19:47
lifelessI think we should just drop the lxc spike19:47
pleia2yeah19:47
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lifeless#topic Managing blueprints - migrate them all to tripleo?19:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Managing blueprints - migrate them all to tripleo? (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:48
lifelessso this is a question I have19:48
lifelesswe said last week we'd consolidate blueprints in /tripleo19:48
lifelessso that we don't have to search 7 projects for them19:48
lifelessbut perhaps folk would rather we just made sure the name always has 'tripleo' in it and do a search ?19:49
SpamapSlifeless: that has worked for me in the past19:49
tzumainnI think that would definitely make sense for tuskar-ui19:49
SpamapSwe had juju-* spread out over many projects, and just searched for that19:49
lifelessshadower - any thoughts?19:50
shadowerlifeless: I'm personally fine either way19:50
jcoufal+1 for 'tripleo' prefix in blueprints19:50
lifelessok19:50
jistrmaking sure 'tripleo' is in the name sounds a bit better to me. It will be still easy enough to list the blueprints related to a particular project19:51
lifelessso the consequence of this is that I'll rename them all, and any outstanding reviews with a blueprint topic will need their commit message updated19:51
lifeless#action lifeless to update all blueprint names19:51
lifeless# Tuskar mailing list - what to do with it?19:51
lsmola_lifeless, does it have to be name or link?19:51
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shadoweryou mean the [tuskar] tag?19:51
lifeless#topic Tuskar mailing list - what to do with it?19:51
shadowerin the subject19:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Tuskar mailing list - what to do with it? (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:51
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lifelessno, I mean the mailing list at launchpad.net/~tuskar19:51
lifelessI asked the LP sysadmins to merge ~tuskar into ~tripleo19:52
shadowerlifeless: oh. Kill it -- no one ever used it19:52
lifelessthey can't because there is a mailing list attached to ~tuskar19:52
lifelessok19:52
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shadowerlifeless: we were just using openstack-dev19:52
lifeless#action lifeless to remove ~tuskar list on LP19:52
lifeless#topic Reviews and +2 on something you fixed up19:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Reviews and +2 on something you fixed up (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:52
lifelessso this came up in the first few days of the CD experiment19:52
lifelesswhen say I start something, and say SpamapS fixes it19:53
lifelesscan he still +2 it, or should he recuse himself? Or can I +2 it?19:53
shadowerlifeless: you mean two people working on the same commit (gerrit change)?19:54
Ngcan we leave that as a "I'll know it when I see it" based on how significant the second person's fix is?19:54
lifelessNg: I'd be fine with that, but there was a fear of it being always bad19:54
lifelessshadower: yes19:54
pblaholifeless: I am no sure right now but I thing I have seen auto +2 when you fix something after another dev... Am I right?19:54
lifelessshadower: person A does git review; person B does a review19:54
jcoufallifeless: I would say the one who started it can +2 it but someone else needs to approve it19:54
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lifelessshadower: and then says 'I will action these items to move this along'19:55
jistrpblaho: i think that happens only for trivial rebases, maybe regardless of who has done the rebase19:55
Nglifeless: how about we can accept one +2 from the union of folks who have worked on it, but someone uninvolved needs to provide the second +2?19:55
pblahoor that was just rebases with previous +219:55
lifelessshadower: and does git review -d <number>; hack hack hack git commit --amend; git review19:55
matty_dubsNg++19:55
jcoufalNg this can be assured by +2 on approval19:55
lifelessNg: I like that19:55
shadoweryea me too19:56
lifelessNg: though s/uninvolved/didn't write code for it/19:56
Nglifeless: yes, that's what I meant to imply19:56
lifelesssince we're all rather involved...19:56
Ng:)19:56
lifelesslooks like consensus to me19:56
lifeless#action lifeless to document19:56
derekhSo approver can't be Committer in any of the patchsets19:56
lifelessbah, :P19:56
lifelessderekh: unless all core have contributed :)19:57
* lifeless spots failure modes19:57
pblahoin other words patchset needs +2 from not-author...?19:57
derekhlifeless: well, there is that19:57
* SpamapS nods that consensus is indeed reached19:57
lifelesspblaho: yes19:57
lifeless#topic open discussion19:57
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: tripleo)"19:57
SpamapSif all core contributed19:57
SpamapS...19:57
SpamapSthen all core should just review and default rules apply19:58
SpamapSseems like a rare case.19:58
lifelessI'm fairly sure it's a power law dropoff in folk that will pickup a single patch19:58
lifelessmost 119:58
lifelesssome 219:58
lifelessvery few 319:58
lifelessetc19:58
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pblahoyeah.. .. from my (short) exp it seams that fixes are usually little things19:59
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Ngit might be nice if the original author +2'd the later fixes, without approving, but I don't think I'd want to require that20:00
lifelessok, we're out of time20:01
lifeless#endmeeting20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)"20:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  8 20:01:04 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-10-08-19.01.html20:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-10-08-19.01.txt20:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2013/tripleo.2013-10-08-19.01.log.html20:01
pblahoNg: that would be nice but I am not sure about cases when original author is not available for sime time20:01
lifelessI'd love feedback about how the CD experiment is going20:01
lifelessperhaps we'll have time next week20:01
Ngpblaho: right20:01
dkehnlifeless, can you change the meeting time on the calendar, please20:01
pblahoNg: you know... bus number... for that particular patchset would be 120:02
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marios'night all20:02
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rpodolyaka1night20:02
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jcoufalthanks everybody20:03
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lifelessdkehn: which calendar ?20:03
lsmola_thaks everyone, good night20:03
dkehnopenstack20:03
dkehnlifeless, I'm assuming thats where its coming from but it could be the outlook20:04
dkehnlifeless, correction outlook20:04
lifelessdkehn: I have no idea about that calendar20:04
dkehnlifeless, hmm, ok20:04
lifelesshttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#TripleO_team_meeting20:05
lifelessis the official doc20:05
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lifelessand it's correct20:05
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dkehnlifeless, got it thx20:06
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