14:00:04 <sarob> #startmeeting training-manuals 14:00:05 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Oct 8 14:00:04 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:06 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:00:08 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals' 14:00:33 <sarob> i have been a bit disconnected this last couple of weeks 14:00:41 <sarob> i have no agenda 14:01:14 <sarob> i almost have the pandoc python wrap script done though 14:01:21 <alagalah> Excellent, I was going to ask 14:02:03 <alagalah> I just did a pull, I see tools/validate.py 14:02:09 <sarob> it clones repos, pulls updates, converts, and then some extra cleanup 14:02:15 <colinmcnamara> colin here 14:02:25 <sarob> validate.py is the gate script 14:02:35 <colinmcnamara> sorry about being late. still getting started 14:02:43 <sarob> no prob 14:02:48 <alagalah> Hi Colin 14:02:53 <sarob> i forgot to post an agenda 14:02:56 <sarob> :( 14:02:59 <colinmcnamara> Good morning Keith 14:03:31 <colinmcnamara> proposed topics 14:03:31 <alagalah> So is the training-labs/Scripts stuff for VirtualBox deployment?> 14:03:35 <colinmcnamara> Progress 14:03:35 <colinmcnamara> Blocking Items 14:03:35 <colinmcnamara> Focus work for next week 14:03:37 <colinmcnamara> xml include location 14:03:39 <colinmcnamara> including non xml content 14:03:39 <sarob> i was just babbling about the rst convert script 14:03:52 <sarob> right 14:03:59 <sarob> #topic progress 14:04:17 <colinmcnamara> let me pull the burndown board real quick 14:04:20 <sarob> speak to me oh oracle of the kanban 14:04:55 <colinmcnamara> Total Cards: 137 14:04:55 <colinmcnamara> Remaining Cards: 74 14:04:55 <colinmcnamara> Done Cards: 63 14:04:57 <colinmcnamara> Percent of cards done: 45.99% 14:04:59 <colinmcnamara> Hours at start: 80 14:05:01 <colinmcnamara> Hours est total: 137 14:05:03 <colinmcnamara> Hours remaining: 74 14:05:05 <colinmcnamara> Hours done: 63 14:05:07 <colinmcnamara> Percent of hours done: 45.99% 14:05:09 <colinmcnamara> ---- ---- 14:05:11 <colinmcnamara> Days Elapsed 37 14:05:13 <colinmcnamara> Daily Burndown 1.7 14:05:15 <colinmcnamara> Est. Days Left 43 14:05:17 <colinmcnamara> Est. Completion Date 11/20/13 14:05:21 <colinmcnamara> so, compared to last week 14:05:23 <colinmcnamara> last week we had 60 cards done 14:05:29 <colinmcnamara> this week we have 63 cards done 14:05:37 <sarob> poop 14:05:40 <colinmcnamara> though I don't think that pranav's scripts were tracked in a card 14:05:51 <colinmcnamara> big thing is, we added two cars 14:05:52 <colinmcnamara> cards 14:06:00 <colinmcnamara> https://BurndownForTrello.com/share/9c3rfd2fu9 - chart 14:06:15 <colinmcnamara> so, our estimated completion date pushed 14:06:16 <sarob> ohhh 14:06:24 <sarob> pretty 14:06:35 <sarob> im less bummed now 14:06:44 <dguitarbite> hi 14:06:50 <colinmcnamara> basically pushed out a week or two 14:06:51 <sarob> hey pranav 14:06:56 <colinmcnamara> hello pranav 14:07:01 <dguitarbite> hey guys 14:07:10 <colinmcnamara> we want the blue line going down, and the red line going up 14:07:26 <colinmcnamara> ideally matching the slope of the yellow line 14:07:54 <colinmcnamara> our daily burndown rate is still ok at 1.7 14:08:07 <sarob> we need to double check our story at this point 14:08:15 <colinmcnamara> explain? 14:08:30 <sarob> what are we teaching associate or rather 14:08:47 <sarob> what will we be testing the assoc knowledge 14:09:03 <sarob> some of these cards could get pushed to operator 14:09:12 <colinmcnamara> could or should? 14:09:14 <sarob> or dev 14:09:20 <sarob> well im not sure 14:09:30 <colinmcnamara> I still think that mapping to the basic installation guide is just that 14:09:31 <colinmcnamara> basic 14:09:34 <sarob> i havent gone through the 'story' 14:09:40 <colinmcnamara> and if I was going to look at the over all progress 14:09:48 <colinmcnamara> the biggest limiter we have right now is concepts 14:09:57 <colinmcnamara> we are pretty much completely through the task items 14:10:00 <alagalah> Which is all RST right ? 14:10:04 <colinmcnamara> only a few of the horizon admin tasks remain 14:10:05 <colinmcnamara> correct 14:10:10 <colinmcnamara> the RST to XML translation 14:10:18 <colinmcnamara> we should probably switch topic 14:10:19 <colinmcnamara> to that 14:10:28 <colinmcnamara> I'd say that is the most critical item for this weeks work 14:10:34 <sarob> #topic rst xml convertion 14:10:42 <sarob> nice spelling 14:10:52 <colinmcnamara> close enough 14:10:55 <dguitarbite> beat me in spellings :O 14:11:08 <colinmcnamara> so, if we can't get the conversion working right now 14:11:20 <colinmcnamara> my vote, go ahead with manual inclusion of certain dev docs and diagrams 14:11:35 <colinmcnamara> with an xml note in the section pointing to the root content 14:11:45 <dguitarbite> I agree 14:11:47 <sarob> im very close to publishing the convertion script 14:12:03 <dguitarbite> although RST integration would have deeper impact on many other Maven based projects 14:12:20 <dguitarbite> sarob: is the code public ? 14:12:27 <colinmcnamara> my preference is to have a converter 14:12:35 <sarob> i havent pushed it yet 14:12:36 <colinmcnamara> how close are you sean? I wasn not able to solve the problem 14:12:45 <colinmcnamara> does it test locally? 14:12:47 <sarob> i will do it this morning 14:13:05 <colinmcnamara> k 14:13:07 <alagalah> If you push it, let me know and I'll have a crack at it on my end tonight 14:13:13 <colinmcnamara> same here 14:13:24 <sarob> im using reg expressions to match and mod content 14:13:53 <colinmcnamara> s/h1/section/g ? 14:13:56 <colinmcnamara> etc 14:13:56 <sarob> as long as the tags dont change we should be good 14:14:08 <colinmcnamara> is it grabbing the images too? 14:14:19 <sarob> s/article/section/g 14:14:48 <sarob> i havent gotten to images yet, but yes it shouldnt be a prob 14:14:51 <alagalah> Couldn't we leave the images alone with absolute reference? Or are we worried about RST content changing ? 14:15:22 <colinmcnamara> the asolute reference points to an external repo. probably best to pull them in in the gross import 14:15:55 <colinmcnamara> e.g. import Nova dev docs, Neutron Dev docs, Cinder Dev docs, etc all into a local directory in training guides 14:16:16 <colinmcnamara> make it easy for the other contributors 14:16:39 <alagalah> So pull in all the RST content locally into training-guides, convert to XML and relative reference to the images? 14:16:41 <sarob> the script clones and pulls updates 14:17:11 <sarob> so you want the cloned repos within our repo? 14:17:18 <sarob> for image ref 14:17:21 <dguitarbite> ? 14:17:28 <colinmcnamara> I think that would be best for now 14:17:29 <dguitarbite> are you talking about repo inside repo? 14:17:39 <colinmcnamara> not the full repos, but the dev docs directory 14:18:06 <sarob> i could add in coping the image directories and update the image tags 14:18:11 <sarob> instead 14:18:24 <dguitarbite> ahh ... I guess its better to get the images locally 14:18:41 <colinmcnamara> also, one other thing 14:18:54 <sarob> right now i have the repos all outside in the local repo root and only the xml in our repo 14:19:01 <alagalah> So clone the RST DevDocs into a temp repo, convert to XML into the training-guides and copy the images ? 14:19:09 <colinmcnamara> so, sean 14:19:16 <colinmcnamara> I agree with that statemtn 14:19:18 <sarob> thats what i was thinking 14:19:21 <colinmcnamara> only xml in our repo (xml and images) 14:19:24 <alagalah> Makes sense 14:19:26 <dguitarbite> we could reuse the images rather than make another copy 14:19:59 <sarob> the script will pull down updates, convert the rst to xml, copy the images 14:20:11 <dguitarbite> kool 14:20:22 <colinmcnamara> so, we can add that as a manual step in the repo 14:20:28 <sarob> ill have to figure out the image tag pattern matching, should be okay 14:20:29 <colinmcnamara> and then add it as a build step later 14:20:30 <ekarlso> why do people like xml over rst ? :| 14:20:34 <colinmcnamara> so, the tags 14:20:47 <dguitarbite> rst is not as powerful as XML 14:20:50 <colinmcnamara> remember anne talked about about tagging images and tables with section id's 14:20:56 <ekarlso> ok 14:21:19 <sarob> hmm, could do it 14:21:32 <sarob> make the code a bit more complicated 14:21:41 <dguitarbite> analogous to difference between JavaScript and Java 14:21:41 <colinmcnamara> well, push the first push 14:21:54 <sarob> prob need another card for that feature 14:21:59 <sarob> but a good idea 14:22:11 <dguitarbite> sarob we can do that feature in the next iteration 14:22:15 <colinmcnamara> just thinking forward to generating the presenter led content 14:22:18 <sarob> yeah 14:22:21 <colinmcnamara> so, if we have that conversion done 14:22:24 <colinmcnamara> tool done 14:22:25 <dguitarbite> it will be simple hack to get the section ids into place 14:22:28 <alagalah> Sarob: you just using regex or the docutils library ? 14:22:29 <colinmcnamara> then that removes a huge block 14:22:39 <sarob> python regex 14:22:45 <alagalah> Did you look at docutils ? 14:22:50 <sarob> nope 14:22:52 <alagalah> ok 14:23:30 <colinmcnamara> docutils has some interesting stuff, but not a rst2docbooks 14:23:54 <colinmcnamara> there is a rst2xml.py script though 14:23:57 <alagalah> But you should be able to parse out the RST tags and replace with XML if you find your RegEx fails, regardless was just curious 14:24:38 <dguitarbite> alagalah it needs some rigorous testing then 14:24:49 <sarob> the rst2xml.py script is where? 14:25:12 <alagalah> http://docutils.sourceforge.net/tools/rst2xml.py 14:25:24 <colinmcnamara> sudo port install docutils 14:25:31 <sarob> cool, prob has the pattern matching i need to add 14:25:34 <sarob> thx 14:26:40 <sarob> #topic blockers 14:26:54 <alagalah> Card#114 ... still relevant? 14:26:59 <alagalah> (blockers) 14:27:26 <colinmcnamara> that can be moved to done 14:27:41 <alagalah> Ok who did it so I can re-assign? 14:28:21 <sarob> i could update the script as well 14:28:56 <sarob> anything else? 14:29:19 <colinmcnamara> let me check my notes 14:29:42 <sarob> i guess the rst to xml conversion script is a blocker 14:29:51 <colinmcnamara> I'd say that is the only blocking item 14:30:20 <colinmcnamara> next topic? 14:30:33 <sarob> #topic next week focus 14:31:08 <sarob> id like to start on the quiz and test formatting 14:31:10 <colinmcnamara> so, think we should try to get all the task oriented cards completed so we can chek for flow 14:31:26 <colinmcnamara> sean, sanity check 14:31:31 <sarob> that sounds good too 14:31:34 <alagalah> If the script works tonight I'll grab some more cards that require RST 14:31:40 <sarob> cool 14:31:47 <colinmcnamara> shouldn't the quiz come from the concepts and tasks? 14:32:08 <sarob> yup, but im talkin format 14:32:11 <sarob> not content 14:32:29 <colinmcnamara> maybe we can get Rev to throw some idea's together 14:32:36 <colinmcnamara> i know he does that for a living right? 14:32:59 <alagalah> front end surveymonkey.com ? 14:33:24 <colinmcnamara> remember, online, printed pdf, instructor led 14:33:33 <colinmcnamara> probably best to just go old school 14:33:40 <colinmcnamara> list of questions, answer key seperate 14:33:50 <colinmcnamara> out of that people can derive the testing engines 14:34:11 <sarob> sounds like a good idea to start 14:34:11 <dguitarbite> yep 14:34:23 <colinmcnamara> and I would guess that since the foundation is managing the cert program, that someone puts a quiz engine tied to openID on openstack.org 14:34:23 <sarob> just expand the tables there now 14:34:26 <dguitarbite> we do not need to host a testing engine or system 14:34:28 <dguitarbite> just the content 14:34:43 <sarob> ah, that sounds good 14:34:59 <sarob> okay solution found 14:35:10 <colinmcnamara> old school :) 14:35:23 <dguitarbite> old school :) 14:35:26 <sarob> so whats xml include location topic? 14:35:44 <colinmcnamara> oh, I pulled from last weeks 14:35:48 <sarob> convertion script output dir? 14:35:49 <colinmcnamara> probably can ignore that 14:36:06 <colinmcnamara> just wanted to get the meeting going in an orderly fashion ;) 14:36:13 <sarob> roger roger 14:36:28 <sarob> so anything else troops? 14:36:34 <colinmcnamara> yeah 14:37:13 <colinmcnamara> I popped the google hangout into imovie and created a how to contribute to openstack-training videio http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qz5NrbFfRi8 14:37:24 <dguitarbite> nice 14:37:45 <sarob> sweet 14:37:49 <dguitarbite> how does youtube let you host 2 hour long videos? 14:38:00 <colinmcnamara> you have to have a verified account 14:38:08 <dguitarbite> ok 14:38:13 <colinmcnamara> and then go into settings and request extended access 14:38:29 <colinmcnamara> the hangout+live ended up there automatically 14:38:47 <dguitarbite> alrite thanks 14:39:03 <colinmcnamara> I then downloaded the hangout live locally, edited it to focus on content and then pushed it up after work yesterday 14:39:34 <sarob> master of the video art 14:39:35 <alagalah> I've written a gdoc with step by step too for my own use. Not as good as the video, but if someone just wanted a quick prompt cheat sheet 14:39:45 <colinmcnamara> awesome 14:39:56 <colinmcnamara> let's all get that information out into the wild 14:40:03 <sarob> sounds like a great add to the user group howto 14:40:06 <alagalah> Yeah I'll tighten it up and perhaps put it on the wiki 14:40:10 <colinmcnamara> the biggest challenge we have is increasing the number of video's 14:40:13 <colinmcnamara> err not video's 14:40:17 <colinmcnamara> contributors 14:40:24 <dguitarbite> lol 14:40:29 <alagalah> What happened to other Meetups contributing ? 14:40:42 <sarob> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStackUserGroups/HowTo 14:40:47 <alagalah> (apart from all the awesomeness that is Aptira) 14:40:53 <colinmcnamara> welcome to OpenSource and User Groups 14:40:54 <sarob> baby steps 14:41:09 <colinmcnamara> basically have to hit critical mass, then everybody says they want to participate 14:41:10 <dguitarbite> yeah 14:41:12 <alagalah> No worries, just asking 14:41:20 <colinmcnamara> as you can see, this is actual work 14:41:30 <colinmcnamara> it is hard actual work 14:41:32 <alagalah> Sarob: want me to amend the wiki ? 14:41:40 <alagalah> (from that link) ? 14:41:42 <sarob> amend away 14:41:47 <sarob> yup 14:41:47 <colinmcnamara> oh, I have one more topic 14:41:52 <dguitarbite> its very hard to get people 14:41:59 <alagalah> Is there a howto amend the howto :-P 14:42:12 <alagalah> I'll unicast you, Sean 14:42:12 <colinmcnamara> click the edit button on the wiki 14:42:14 <dguitarbite> yea also need to change the IRC meeting timing on Wiki .. ill do it 14:42:16 <sarob> its moinmoin wiki 14:42:25 <sarob> thx 14:42:34 <colinmcnamara> so, another proposed topic - whitespace checks 14:42:49 <sarob> just log into the wiki and select edit from the top of page 14:43:04 <alagalah> ack got it now 14:43:08 <sarob> anyone can edit any page on wiki.openstack.org 14:43:19 <sarob> #topic whitespace checks 14:43:44 <colinmcnamara> so, you may have noticed a non-voting stage in jenkins now 14:43:47 <colinmcnamara> called niceness 14:43:59 <colinmcnamara> it checks for whitespace and empty lines 14:44:10 <sarob> i never claimed to be nice 14:44:15 <colinmcnamara> you will get a -1 one, that won't stop a build 14:44:35 <colinmcnamara> it caught some white space in the user-includes template as well as my section files 14:44:41 <colinmcnamara> that I went and fixed 14:44:48 <sarob> cool, thx 14:44:54 <colinmcnamara> I ended up pushing a few patches for mycommit 14:45:03 <colinmcnamara> I didn't however go back through the other cards and clean them up 14:45:15 <dguitarbite> please confirm IRC meeting on Tues at 14:00 UTC 14:45:29 <dguitarbite> Im bad with time ... so need to verify 14:45:39 <sarob> yeah 1400 utc 14:45:43 <sarob> tuesday 14:45:44 <dguitarbite> k thansk 14:45:54 <colinmcnamara> I propose that as reviewers we treat the niceneness check as a strict check, and push back (unless it is timely) and request a 2nd patch to fix whitspace issues 14:45:58 <alagalah> Why the polgrom on whitespace? 14:46:17 <alagalah> Does having it break something? 14:46:24 <colinmcnamara> coding standards in the project 14:46:35 <alagalah> Hmmmm interesting. Fair enough then. 14:47:03 <colinmcnamara> and whenever possibly I would like us to confirm to the larger coding standards and methodologies of OpenStack as a whole 14:47:13 <colinmcnamara> it was a simple change on my end to fix it. took 5 minutes 14:47:22 <colinmcnamara> I had a couple tabs and a blank line 14:47:30 <alagalah> Well yeah, of course. Seems like an odd standard since whitespace increases code readability but greater minds than I have determined it's evil so we should comply 14:48:07 <sarob> your compliance is noted 14:48:31 <sarob> anything else guys? 14:48:33 <alagalah> I live to serve 14:48:35 <colinmcnamara> spaces and tabs at the end of lines don't make anything easier to read 14:48:36 <colinmcnamara> ;) 14:48:41 <colinmcnamara> either way, wanted to discuss is 14:48:42 <colinmcnamara> it 14:48:43 <alagalah> Ah 14:48:54 <colinmcnamara> before pushing back on reviews 14:48:59 <colinmcnamara> well, other then my own 14:49:00 <alagalah> Ack ... 14:49:00 <sarob> what do mean? 14:49:10 <alagalah> Do we need to redo existing cards? 14:49:12 <dguitarbite> white spaces are bad for compiles have to read them 14:49:18 <dguitarbite> it reduces load on the infra 14:49:43 <colinmcnamara> good point pranav 14:49:52 <sarob> validate.py wont check already merged xml 14:50:16 <alagalah> python :) 14:50:28 <colinmcnamara> my vote is not to go back and clean stuff up whitespace yet. Just to be a bit more rigorous moving forward 14:50:30 <alagalah> Not. Compiled. :) 14:50:33 <alagalah> hehehehe 14:50:38 <alagalah> Got it 14:50:47 <dguitarbite> hey guys 14:50:56 <dguitarbite> lets keep the white spaces as low hanging friuts 14:51:03 <dguitarbite> *fruits 14:51:10 <alagalah> You mean for new contributors? Great idea 14:51:13 <sarob> sounds about right 14:51:16 <dguitarbite> yes 14:51:17 <colinmcnamara> good idea 14:51:20 <dguitarbite> saves us some manual task 14:51:22 <colinmcnamara> great idea pranav 14:51:35 <colinmcnamara> have them log a bug for whitespace in files 14:51:38 <colinmcnamara> and then clean it 14:51:42 <dguitarbite> yep 14:52:19 <sarob> #info whitespace and orphaned tabs to be logged as bug 14:52:49 <alagalah> Hmmmm, I've never logged/resolved a bug so I may take one to fix to understand that process if thats ok? 14:52:50 <sarob> #action sarob push convert rst xml scrpit today 14:53:14 <sarob> alagalah: happy to help 14:53:28 <sarob> instructions are in the operators guide 14:53:35 <alagalah> ack 14:53:39 <alagalah> thank you 14:53:48 <sarob> anything else? 14:54:09 <colinmcnamara> i'm good 14:54:28 <sarob> pranav? 14:54:39 <dguitarbite> we need to discuss the course syllabus once 14:54:42 <dguitarbite> during the summit 14:54:53 <sarob> sure 14:55:13 <colinmcnamara> agreed 14:55:13 <dguitarbite> and I may have some feedback based on actual teaching 14:55:16 <dguitarbite> in India 14:55:17 <sarob> i think we should reaccess the syllabus for all four books 14:55:23 <sarob> sweet 14:55:25 <dguitarbite> hopefully before the summit \m/ 14:55:37 <alagalah> re-assess 14:55:40 <sarob> super critical to have teaching feedback 14:55:42 <alagalah> Mr SpellCheck 14:55:58 <alagalah> :-P 14:56:01 <dguitarbite> :D 14:56:37 <sarob> #action review books syllabus at summit 14:56:57 <colinmcnamara> agree on getting feedback from a delivered class 14:57:19 <dguitarbite> yes, very important to know how good is the content delivery 14:57:23 <alagalah> Just for cross-reference... 14:57:33 <sarob> we should setup a monkey survey and add link to the cource 14:57:36 <sarob> couse 14:57:39 <sarob> arrgg 14:57:57 <alagalah> #vBrownBag has a Couch to OpenStack series (#C2OS) I'm going to go through: http://openstack.prov12n.com/about-couch-to-openstack/ 14:58:04 <dguitarbite> yep, even something similar in kong to know what other experts say abotu it 14:58:09 <alagalah> It may serve as a sanity check 14:58:22 <sarob> which what? 14:58:52 <colinmcnamara> that's cody's series 14:58:56 <alagalah> yes 14:59:01 <colinmcnamara> he's been hovering around our project 14:59:04 <colinmcnamara> but, to be direct 14:59:16 <colinmcnamara> it kinda competes with the books he has been releasing 14:59:21 <colinmcnamara> so I don't expect much participation 14:59:24 <colinmcnamara> until we hit critical mass 14:59:33 <colinmcnamara> that is a common theme by the way 14:59:59 <colinmcnamara> people keep focusing on putting out single release content 15:00:11 <sarob> yup 15:00:12 <colinmcnamara> that ends up full of bugs, and dated within 6 months 15:00:21 <colinmcnamara> but, their name is on it 15:00:31 <colinmcnamara> vs treating training and learning as open source 15:00:43 <dguitarbite> we are on an iterative model, tracked and stuff ... lets just hope they contribute to the official docs eventually 15:00:49 <colinmcnamara> they will 15:00:52 <colinmcnamara> my bet 15:00:53 <colinmcnamara> is 15:01:02 <colinmcnamara> when the course get out and are being delivered in the larger community 15:01:03 <sarob> they will all come over to the dark side 15:01:06 <colinmcnamara> yup 15:01:11 <colinmcnamara> that will be the critical mass 15:01:13 <colinmcnamara> and 15:01:22 <colinmcnamara> if and when the foundation figures out the cert program 15:01:33 <colinmcnamara> my assumption is that it will be based of this content 15:01:40 <colinmcnamara> or at minimum alighned 15:01:45 <colinmcnamara> then again, more people will jump on 15:02:12 <sarob> ive got a hard stop 15:02:25 <sarob> anymore training biz 15:02:31 <alagalah> I'm good 15:02:34 <colinmcnamara> I'm good 15:02:36 <dguitarbite> im good 15:02:41 <dguitarbite> wrap up ? 15:02:49 <sarob> sweet, thx for the great meet guys 15:02:55 <sarob> see ya in the funny papers 15:02:57 <dguitarbite> thanks all 15:03:05 <sarob> #endmeeting