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| jokke_ | Courtesy meeting reminder on #openstack-meeting-4: flwang1, jokke_, mclaren, mfedosin, nikhil_k, rosmaita,GB21, bpoulos, harshs, abhishekk, dshakhray, wxy, dhellmann, kairat, alex_bash, smcginnis, arcolife,Brin,Roamer` | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| smcginnis | o/ | 14:00 |
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| jokke_ | #startmeeting glance | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 29 14:00:32 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jokke_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 14:00 |
| jokke_ | #topic roll call | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: glance)" | 14:00 | |
| abhishekk | o/ | 14:00 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 14:00 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 14:00 |
| rosmaita | smcginnis too | 14:00 |
| jokke_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda | 14:01 |
| smcginnis | o/ o/ :) | 14:01 |
| rosmaita | \o | 14:01 |
| McClymontS | o/ | 14:01 |
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| jokke_ | #topic updates | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "updates (Meeting topic: glance)" | 14:02 | |
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| jokke_ | so pretty muc one update ... trying to find the mail | 14:03 |
| jokke_ | but in nutshell we're moving from maintaining the minimum requirements centrally to in-repo requirement management | 14:04 |
| jokke_ | and there will be similar lower-constrains job as there is upper constrains | 14:05 |
| rosmaita | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-March/128352.html | 14:05 |
| McClymontS | Saw that patch to be reviewed | 14:05 |
| McClymontS | for the lower constraints | 14:05 |
| rosmaita | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/555483/ | 14:05 |
| jokke_ | dhellmann did script the needed changes, so I'd like everyone to get familiar with how it affects us, and what pitfall we need to look out for | 14:06 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: thanks | 14:06 |
| rosmaita | np | 14:06 |
| jokke_ | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-March/128352.html | 14:07 |
| rosmaita | that's a fairly long email! | 14:07 |
| jokke_ | other update is that we still haven't got the glanceclient released so lets hop into topic 2 | 14:07 |
| jokke_ | #topic python-glanceclient image-import default behavior | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "python-glanceclient image-import default behavior (Meeting topic: glance)" | 14:08 | |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: you wanna start on this? | 14:08 |
| rosmaita | sure | 14:08 |
| rosmaita | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/555550/ | 14:08 |
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| rosmaita | ok, so i was testing out glanceclient and came across some situations | 14:09 |
| rosmaita | decided to handle them by doing more analysis on the client side to see if a request was likely to succeed before making it | 14:09 |
| rosmaita | because the problem is that you can have client-side import succes, that is the import call succeeds | 14:09 |
| rosmaita | but hte actual import fails later when the task is processed | 14:09 |
| rosmaita | and that can be problematic | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | anyway | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | as part of that, i changed the default import-method to none, and in that case all the image-create-via-import does is create an image record | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | or exits if you have included extra junk | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | so, the question is whether that is a good change | 14:11 |
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| rosmaita | my reasoning is that we have >1 import method, so the user should pick | 14:11 |
| rosmaita | but, that is backward incompatable with the current image-create command | 14:11 |
| rosmaita | assuming that we will eventually replace image-create with image-create-via-import | 14:12 |
| rosmaita | but, it might be worth doing anyway | 14:12 |
| rosmaita | anyway, that's the basic idea | 14:12 |
| rosmaita | i personally can go either way, key thing is that we've got tests to make sure the input makes sense | 14:12 |
| rosmaita | but obviously, i think making the user say what import-method they are using is a good idea | 14:13 |
| rosmaita | since that's what my patch does | 14:13 |
| * rosmaita shuts up | 14:13 | |
| jokke_ | so, I'm hugely afraid about the outcry if we replace the image create client call with something that is not backwards compatible ... on the same time as image-create-via-import is experimental, we can experiment with it, not rename it but rewrite the image-create with sensible defaults when the time comes to swap | 14:13 |
| jokke_ | that is our benefit of flagging it experimental in first place, and big thanks to rosmaita pointing out that we should not lift that flag just yet | 14:15 |
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| rosmaita | i guess the point of a decision now is that the openstack client people or sdk people may look at our implementation as a reference | 14:15 |
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| rosmaita | or maybe that's the point of having a non-backward-compat change in the experimental command | 14:16 |
| McClymontS | +1 | 14:16 |
| rosmaita | i guess my point is that i don't like silent defaults with complex choices | 14:17 |
| rosmaita | "explicit is better than implicit" | 14:17 |
| rosmaita | i heard that somewhere | 14:17 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: yeah, so it's flagged experimental so we can get it running, test it and gather feedback. Once we make what ever the call is how it's behaving and remove that experimental flag, we need to start to be really careful what we break | 14:17 |
| rosmaita | jokke_ agree 100% | 14:18 |
| rosmaita | my short-term question is do we like the current patch, or do i need to rewrite it? | 14:18 |
| jokke_ | so I'm on favor of having sensible defaults or at least ability to set them | 14:22 |
| rosmaita | just a reminder: stable-maint team reviews release requests on mondays and we plan to release from stable/queens | 14:22 |
| jokke_ | and this coming Monday is easter so I quess we need to poke tonyb anyways | 14:23 |
| rosmaita | does RH have monday off? | 14:23 |
| jokke_ | I have both tomorrow and Monday off | 14:23 |
| rosmaita | slackers! | 14:23 |
| abhishekk | I have tomorrow off | 14:24 |
| rosmaita | i would suggest that a sensible default would do minimal damage, so in this instance, creating an image record only is a good choice | 14:24 |
| rosmaita | but that's just me | 14:25 |
| jokke_ | well we can still do that if the payload is not provided | 14:25 |
| jokke_ | but sensible default would be something that maintains backwards compatibility to established command | 14:25 |
| jokke_ | that's why it's there in the first place ;) | 14:26 |
| rosmaita | i guess my concern there is if we have multiple methods that take --file, that's a problem | 14:26 |
| rosmaita | maybe --uri is a better example | 14:26 |
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| rosmaita | already a proposal for another method for that | 14:26 |
| jokke_ | yeah, and the default that is in place is backwards compatible and should not accept --uri | 14:27 |
| jokke_ | but like said, I'd be fine giving the user opportunity to set the default locally as well | 14:27 |
| rosmaita | well, let's take a vote or something ... i can make the changes right away and update all the tests if necessary ... looks like it needs to be done in the next few hours if we're going to propose a release for monday | 14:27 |
| jokke_ | having env variable for it, just like we have been doing with the api version | 14:28 |
| rosmaita | that's a good idea | 14:29 |
| McClymontS | I like that idea actually | 14:29 |
| rosmaita | and you mentioned it before but i ignored it | 14:29 |
| jokke_ | #startvote image-create-via-import should have sensible defaults? Yes, No, users-choise | 14:29 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: image-create-via-import should have sensible defaults? Valid vote options are Yes, No, users-choise. | 14:29 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 14:29 |
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| jokke_ | crap | 14:30 |
| rosmaita | ummm ... we need to say what "sensible defaults" are! | 14:30 |
| jokke_ | #endvote | 14:30 |
| openstack | Voted on "image-create-via-import should have sensible defaults?" Results are | 14:30 |
| jokke_ | #startvote image-create-via-import should have sensible defaults? Yes, No, users-choice | 14:30 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: image-create-via-import should have sensible defaults? Valid vote options are Yes, No, users-choice. | 14:30 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 14:30 |
| smcginnis | #vote Yes | 14:30 |
| McClymontS | #vote Yes | 14:31 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: something that does not break the world and get similar which hunt on us as the 1.0.0 release did :P | 14:31 |
| abhishekk | #vote Yes | 14:31 |
| jokke_ | #vote users-choice | 14:31 |
| rosmaita | #vote users-choice | 14:31 |
| jokke_ | ok, do we have anyone else here who has opinion? | 14:32 |
| smcginnis | User choice would be the environment variable right? The only thing I don't like about that is it's kind of a hidden thing that someone would need to go out and learn about. | 14:33 |
| rosmaita | yes, we would have to publicise it | 14:34 |
| jokke_ | smcginnis: yes, although I do not think it's a bad idea even if we keep the default in place to have that to obey | 14:34 |
| rosmaita | would show up in the help, i think | 14:34 |
| McClymontS | From a use case perspective I like sensible defaults | 14:34 |
| rosmaita | yes, it's like apple pie | 14:35 |
| McClymontS | Who doesn't like apple pie | 14:35 |
| rosmaita | not sure what the cross-cultural equivalent of that is | 14:35 |
| jokke_ | #endvote | 14:35 |
| openstack | Voted on "image-create-via-import should have sensible defaults?" Results are | 14:35 |
| openstack | users-choice (2): jokke_, rosmaita | 14:35 |
| openstack | Yes (3): McClymontS, smcginnis, abhishekk | 14:35 |
| smcginnis | If we can do user-choice, but have the no-env-variable-defined default be a reasonable one, then that's kind of the best of both voted options, right? | 14:35 |
| rosmaita | smcginnis i think so | 14:35 |
| smcginnis | User choice with reasonable default. | 14:35 |
| smcginnis | I'm good with that then. | 14:35 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: you've seen movie American Pie, right? :D | 14:35 |
| McClymontS | yeah I think that meets in the middle | 14:35 |
| abhishekk | :D | 14:36 |
| rosmaita | ok, so can someone summarize what we agreed on? is the "sensible default" == glance-direct or None? | 14:36 |
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| jokke_ | glance-direct would be the sensible backwards compatible default | 14:37 |
| abhishekk | I guess sensible default | 14:37 |
| rosmaita | ok, so i will put up a patch with glance-direct default and that recognizes the env var and revise the tests accordingly | 14:38 |
| jokke_ | unless you want to implement the magic into the client to detect what the user wants to do when they don't specify the method but provide payload ;) | 14:38 |
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| rosmaita | well, that's basically what we | 14:38 |
| rosmaita | re doing | 14:38 |
| rosmaita | but now there is no way to simply create an image record | 14:39 |
| jokke_ | umm nope ... we are telling that _if_ you do image create and provide your image file, we will create the image all the way like we used to, and we have options for you to choose other methods ;) | 14:39 |
| rosmaita | because glance-direct requires data | 14:40 |
| rosmaita | so this is also backward incompatible | 14:40 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: yes there is, we just haven't implemented it in the current implementation. So we do fail if the payload is not there, while we should just create the record as we used to | 14:40 |
| jokke_ | and yes, I was thinking of that when I looked the code and I have bug text pretty much written for it ;) | 14:41 |
| rosmaita | i am liking this less and less | 14:41 |
| jokke_ | ok so currently: | 14:42 |
| rosmaita | so, the import-method will have to remain None | 14:42 |
| rosmaita | but if you include --file or stdin we will know that you mean glance-direct and adjust | 14:42 |
| jokke_ | 1) image create without payload - creates image that stay's in queued | 14:42 |
| rosmaita | we have to do it in the function, because the config-parser sets the default value | 14:43 |
| jokke_ | 2) image create with payload - creates image and uploads the payload == if everything goes fine active image | 14:43 |
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| jokke_ | with the import version where we should be: | 14:43 |
| jokke_ | 1) image create without file - creates image that stays queues | 14:44 |
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| jokke_ | 2) image create with payload file or stdin - creates image, stages the payload, imports == if everything goes fine active image | 14:44 |
| jokke_ | with import and any other method choosen: | 14:45 |
| rosmaita | why don't we just drop the import-method altogether? | 14:45 |
| jokke_ | 1) provide all the needed parameters for that method - creates image, does what is needed by the method, imports == if everything goes fine active imagew | 14:45 |
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| McClymontS | I strongly dislike the image create to queued with no payload | 14:46 |
| jokke_ | McClymontS: there is a lot of legimite usecases to create image before providing the data and I'm not gonna let anyone break image-create around that | 14:47 |
| McClymontS | Understood, I understand why it was built out | 14:48 |
| McClymontS | Is it rate limited on default? | 14:48 |
| McClymontS | I'm not even sure | 14:48 |
| rosmaita | ok, so in the code, how do i distinguish between wanting to create an image record, and glance-direct where someone forgot the --file or stdin redirect? | 14:49 |
| rosmaita | McClymontS glance does not do rate limiting, that has to be done externally | 14:49 |
| jokke_ | McClymontS: I hear what you say and I'm inclined to say that image-create should have never had the option to "magically" detect what the user might want, but I did not have a say to that decision | 14:49 |
| McClymontS | Cool thanks for the context, rosmaita I'm not sure tbh | 14:50 |
| jokke_ | I think the best case scenario (and where rosmaita seems to want to move) would have been to tell the user, "This workflow needs to you run these commands and provide them their respective imput" | 14:50 |
| jokke_ | instead of "Dump everything to that first command and voodoo happens" | 14:50 |
| rosmaita | you have detected my hidden agenda! | 14:50 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: and that hidden agenda is backwards incompatibe and I still remember there version 1.0.0 release way too well | 14:51 |
| rosmaita | ok, so i still have my question above about how can i tell in the function | 14:51 |
| rosmaita | what i mean is this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/555550/2/glanceclient/v2/shell.py@105 | 14:52 |
| rosmaita | line 105 | 14:52 |
| rosmaita | if default='glance-direct', args.import_method will be == 'glance-direct' when control hits the function | 14:53 |
| rosmaita | the problem is that this is a more complicated command than image-create was | 14:54 |
| rosmaita | i mean, maybe the solution is just that we leave image-create as-is | 14:55 |
| rosmaita | into the futurew | 14:55 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: so your worry is that there is no way to tell if user explicitely called it with method glance-direct and forgot to provide the payload? | 14:55 |
| rosmaita | exactly | 14:55 |
| rosmaita | we want to minimize support calls | 14:55 |
| rosmaita | i am thinking that this needs to be its own call | 14:55 |
| rosmaita | its own command, i mean | 14:56 |
| smcginnis | 4 minutes | 14:56 |
| rosmaita | yeah, sorry about the time | 14:56 |
| jokke_ | ok, so I'm fone changing that defualt to None for that purpose and then we just need to specify that _if_ the method is not provided and payload is for backwards compatibility we default to glance-direct | 14:56 |
| smcginnis | rosmaita: Meeting hog. :) | 14:57 |
| jokke_ | :%s/fone/fine/ | 14:57 |
| rosmaita | yeah, but the help text is going to be weird | 14:57 |
| jokke_ | and the we need to do that detection in the code, which is very trivial | 14:57 |
| jokke_ | I know | 14:57 |
| jokke_ | but it's way less weird if you write it rather than me | 14:58 |
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| rosmaita | :) | 14:58 |
| jokke_ | ok last 2min for open discussion | 14:58 |
| jokke_ | #topic open discussion | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: glance)" | 14:58 | |
| rosmaita | yeah, one last thing ... if this is a new call, there are no backward-compat worries | 14:58 |
| rosmaita | and operators are still going to want to use direct upload | 14:58 |
| rosmaita | so i really wonder about this being a 1-1 replacement for image-create command | 14:59 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: well it's not because we promised this as drop in replacement for users (IIRC the spec right) | 14:59 |
| bhagyashris | jokke_: waiting for new upstream branch for policy refactor changes :) | 14:59 |
| jokke_ | bhagyashris: it's created forgot it from updates | 14:59 |
| rosmaita | i don't remember the spec saying anything about client support | 14:59 |
| bhagyashris | jokke_: ohh ok no problem | 15:00 |
| jokke_ | feature/policy-refactor | 15:00 |
| jokke_ | thanks all! | 15:00 |
| jokke_ | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 29 15:00:28 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| McClymontS | Thank you | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2018/glance.2018-03-29-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2018/glance.2018-03-29-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2018/glance.2018-03-29-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
| jokke_ | we can continue the discussion in #os-glance | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | Thanks all! | 15:00 |
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