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| EmilienM | hello here | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| RichardRaseley | Good morning. | 15:00 |
| EmilienM | #startmeeting puppet-openstack | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 15:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is EmilienM. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'puppet_openstack' | 15:00 |
| mdorman | hola | 15:00 |
| EmilienM | who is here today? | 15:00 |
| Guest25676 | hey | 15:01 |
| Guest25676 | dang it | 15:01 |
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| RichardRaseley | I am here for the first 10 mins or so. | 15:01 |
| xarses | hi | 15:01 |
| crinkle | o/ | 15:01 |
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| sbadia | hi | 15:02 |
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| Hunner | o/ | 15:02 |
| EmilienM | #topic review past actions | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review past actions (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:02 | |
| EmilienM | spredzy,claryton create a POC and send an email to the ML about parameter default policy | 15:03 |
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| chem | hi | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | I have no clue about this one ^ | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | but I guess it's WIP | 15:03 |
| clayton | Same status as last week :( | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | cody to finish neutron patch -> still WIP, need reviews though | 15:03 |
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| EmilienM | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/184646/ | 15:04 |
| RichardRaseley | I don't see _ody here this morning. | 15:04 |
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| EmilienM | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189873/ | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | need review *and* rebase | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | sbadia to patch swift module for puppet4 - MERGED | 15:04 |
| sbadia | \o/ | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | crinkle to close this ML thread and explain our decision | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | crinkle: what was it about again? | 15:05 |
| EmilienM | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/puppet-openstack-weekly-meeting-20150616 | 15:05 |
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| crinkle | i think that was about the change abandonment policy | 15:05 |
| EmilienM | ah yeah, nice | 15:05 |
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| EmilienM | so it's DONE | 15:05 |
| mgagne | o/ | 15:05 |
| EmilienM | spredzy Send a patch as an implementation reference (dbsync exec) -> I think it's not done yet | 15:05 |
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| EmilienM | same for the thread | 15:06 |
| EmilienM | spredzy|afk is out anyway | 15:06 |
| EmilienM | #topic CI status | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI status (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:06 | |
| EmilienM | beaker is almost voting: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190778 \o/ | 15:06 |
| EmilienM | the only thing I noticed until now is an issue with puppet-sahara | 15:07 |
| EmilienM | on trusty | 15:07 |
| EmilienM | I'll figure that out today or so | 15:07 |
| EmilienM | puppet4: we're still waiting for cody's patches to land and we can enable voting for puppet4 jobs | 15:07 |
| EmilienM | anything else about CI ? | 15:08 |
| EmilienM | ok seems no | 15:08 |
| crinkle | i'm working on a poc to use zuul-cloner so we can test dependent patches, hopefully have something today | 15:08 |
| crinkle | in beaker | 15:08 |
| EmilienM | oh, that is awesome | 15:08 |
| EmilienM | crinkle: any blocker on it now? | 15:09 |
| crinkle | EmilienM: nope | 15:09 |
| EmilienM | crinkle: ok, thx | 15:09 |
| EmilienM | #topic migration status | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "migration status (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:09 | |
| EmilienM | crinkle: o/ | 15:10 |
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| EmilienM | thanks for having worked on that with infra team | 15:10 |
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| EmilienM | I had to *exceptionally* +2 +A some patches to have CI back to work | 15:10 |
| EmilienM | it seems Havana and Grizzly CIs are broken for some modules, we figured that during the migration | 15:11 |
| sbadia | because of lack of review ? | 15:11 |
| mgagne | yha, no need to wait for 2x +2 to +A such changes | 15:11 |
| sbadia | ah yes a question related | 15:11 |
| sbadia | about patchs for .gitreview on havana branchs (what we do?) | 15:11 |
| EmilienM | sbadia: yes, crinkle sent patches on Friday night but nobody reviewed them yesterday | 15:11 |
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| EmilienM | sbadia: so I landed them myself | 15:12 |
| sbadia | spec tests are failing on theses branchs | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | yeah... Not sure we should spend time on it | 15:12 |
| sbadia | EmilienM: ok, sorry and thanks! | 15:12 |
| sbadia | ok ok | 15:12 |
| mfisch | why do we care if Grizzly is broken? | 15:12 |
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| clayton | I don't see much point in fixing them personally | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | mfisch: well, if people are still using it and want to backport something, they can figure how to fix the CI | 15:12 |
| mfisch | +1 | 15:13 |
| mgagne | mfisch: I think we did not officially stopped the support for it yet | 15:13 |
| xarses | well, they likely won't figure it out | 15:13 |
| EmilienM | but I don't think anyone here cares about havana/grizzly, and only for some modules. | 15:13 |
| xarses | so we will likely have to help | 15:13 |
| EmilienM | mgagne: maybe a good action to take | 15:13 |
| clayton | wfm. I don't think those releases (or icehouse) are still supported by any vendors | 15:13 |
| EmilienM | #action Emilien to run a thread on ML about some stable branches deprecations (grizzly+havana) | 15:13 |
| xarses | we are still supporting icehouse | 15:13 |
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| xarses | but that's our own issue | 15:14 |
| mgagne | yea, we have still to move from icehouse here | 15:14 |
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| EmilienM | crinkle: anything else to notice about migration? Do we have any blockers? | 15:14 |
| crinkle | EmilienM: i think we're all set | 15:14 |
| EmilienM | cool, and thanks again for that. | 15:15 |
| RichardRaseley | Unfortunately, I have to run. I will review the remainder of the meeting when I get back to my computer (more specifically on any actions from Zaqar or proposed ML change). | 15:15 |
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| EmilienM | #topic Zaqar module | 15:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zaqar module (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:15 | |
| _ody | o/ | 15:15 |
| EmilienM | RichardRaseley: o/ | 15:15 |
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| EmilienM | ok, we will postpone this one, RichardRaseley|A had to go | 15:16 |
| EmilienM | #action postpone this topic when RichardRaseley is around | 15:16 |
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| EmilienM | we have a topic but I don't know who wrote this | 15:16 |
| EmilienM | #topic How to deal with distributions merging multiple services in one package (RHEL) | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "How to deal with distributions merging multiple services in one package (RHEL) (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:16 | |
| EmilienM | mgagne: maybe ? | 15:17 |
| clayton | EmilienM: likely have similar issues with virtualenvs or docker support | 15:17 |
| mgagne | we just have to figure out once and for all a good pattern | 15:17 |
| mgagne | which might require refactoring, I just waited to raise the point | 15:17 |
| mdorman | agreed. what’s there now is kinda a mess | 15:18 |
| mdorman | mgagne: the only negative reaction i have to the $nova_title approach is how do users external to the module know what the title of the package will be. but that speaks to having a consistent pattern across all | 15:18 |
| EmilienM | mgagne: maybe we could define services managed by a package in an array? | 15:18 |
| clayton | why not tag the resource and users that want to depend on it can use a collector? | 15:19 |
| clayton | the collector will fail if the package isn't included in the manifest | 15:19 |
| mgagne | I don't have any clear solution in my head, I'm open to all suggestions as long as it helps fixing the resource title issue | 15:19 |
| EmilienM | mgagne: do you have a LP # ? | 15:19 |
| mgagne | EmilienM: no | 15:19 |
| mdorman | clayton: so just use some tag, rather than changing the title? | 15:20 |
| EmilienM | it would be great to submit a but explaining the issue and with some examples. | 15:20 |
| EmilienM | s/but/bug/ | 15:20 |
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| mgagne | I don't think tag were meant for that purpose | 15:20 |
| EmilienM | clayton: this sounds tricky | 15:20 |
| mgagne | we are suggesting not following conventions already in place | 15:21 |
| mdorman | EmilienM: here’s the bug from yesterday that explains this problem for one specific case (nova): https://bugs.launchpad.net/puppet-nova/+bug/1465433 | 15:21 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1465433 in puppet-nova "generic_service declares package incorrectly" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Mike Dorman (mdorman-m) | 15:21 |
| mgagne | it's not just about "getting the job done", it's about making it the most "puppet" way | 15:21 |
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| mgagne | which usually do not involve tag and such | 15:21 |
| clayton | not sure how puppet tags are non puppet-like. | 15:22 |
| mgagne | it's not something I see in other modules | 15:22 |
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| _ody | generally tags frighten me because everything in a catalog is implicitly tagged with something. If you pick that somethting as your explicit tag, you get all the implicit ones too. | 15:23 |
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| mgagne | ^ | 15:23 |
| EmilienM | I think tags are not the right option here | 15:23 |
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| mgagne | I don't think we will come up with a solution in this meeting, just wanted to raise my concerns | 15:24 |
| mdorman | i am not really up to speed with tags, so don’t have a strong opinion. but i like the idea of a collector | 15:24 |
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| EmilienM | it seems like mdorman and mgagne have a great consensus on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192009 | 15:24 |
| mdorman | mgagne / EmilienM how about i iterate some more on https://review.openstack.org/192009 and we can go from there, discuss more next week? | 15:24 |
| mgagne | collector tends to fail silently if you make a typo too | 15:24 |
| EmilienM | mdorman: +1 | 15:25 |
| mdorman | true | 15:25 |
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| mdorman | #action mdorman to work more on https://review.openstack.org/192009, discuss more next meeting. | 15:25 |
| EmilienM | perfect | 15:25 |
| EmilienM | the agenda is done for today | 15:26 |
| EmilienM | #topic open discussion | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 15:26 | |
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| EmilienM | you can rise your patches/bugs that need specific attention | 15:26 |
| mgagne | I see reviews are on going for the keystone auto refactor. I'm happy about it | 15:26 |
| EmilienM | I made a list for patches we need to land before a kilo release | 15:27 |
| mgagne | and I also see people are ok with puppet openstack usage questions to go on openstack-operators so I'm happy to hear it too | 15:27 |
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| crinkle | https://review.openstack.org/191326 and https://review.openstack.org/191328 still needed to fix ci after the project renames | 15:27 |
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| _ody | EmilienM: Where is this list? | 15:27 |
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| EmilienM | _ody: a sec | 15:28 |
| sbadia | crinkle: done | 15:29 |
| sbadia | thx! | 15:29 |
| crinkle | sbadia: ty | 15:29 |
| EmilienM | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/295543/ | 15:29 |
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| EmilienM | please review that ^ for kilo | 15:29 |
| EmilienM | also for Juno, I have some backports | 15:30 |
| EmilienM | crinkle: did you have all your backports merged/reviewed? | 15:30 |
| crinkle | EmilienM: look like it | 15:30 |
| EmilienM | I'm still miising 2 | 15:31 |
| EmilienM | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190634/ | 15:31 |
| EmilienM | and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190464/ | 15:31 |
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| _ody | crinkle: the beaker failure on trusty for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191328/ looks almost legit. | 15:31 |
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| EmilienM | mgagne: are your patches on Introduce public_url, internal_url and admin_url a requirement for a kilo release? | 15:32 |
| crinkle | _ody: hrm, thanks | 15:32 |
| EmilienM | _ody: you'll need to rebase https://review.openstack.org/#/c/184646/ | 15:33 |
| crinkle | _ody: oh emilien commented on it | 15:33 |
| EmilienM | does anyone wanted to raise another topic/patch/bug here? otherwise I can close the meeting in 1 minute | 15:33 |
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| sbadia | _ody: I've posted an inline question for 184646 | 15:33 |
| sbadia | EmilienM: seems ok for me :) | 15:34 |
| EmilienM | ok. Thanks everyone and have a great day/evening! | 15:34 |
| crinkle | o/ | 15:34 |
| EmilienM | #endmeeting | 15:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:34 | |
| mdorman | later, thanks EmilienM | 15:34 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 15:34:46 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-06-16-15.00.html | 15:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-06-16-15.00.txt | 15:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-06-16-15.00.log.html | 15:34 |
| sbadia | thanks ! | 15:35 |
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| ijw | Double meetings. What can it mean? | 16:59 |
| ildikov | ijw: double meetings? | 16:59 |
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| svinota | hello all. Hej, Chris | 17:00 |
| ildikov | #startmeeting VLAN-aware VMs BP discussion | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 16 17:00:45 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| ChrisPriceAB | Hi guys | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VLAN-aware VMs BP discussion)" | 17:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vlan_aware_vms_bp_discussion' | 17:00 |
| ildikov | Hi. | 17:00 |
| ijw | ildikov: I have a phone meeting at the same time, so I'll be distracted, but I'm here | 17:01 |
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| ildikov | Who's around for the VLAN-aware VMs discussion? | 17:01 |
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| ildikov | ijw: a-ha, ok, thanks :) | 17:01 |
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| pcarver | ildikov: I'm here to listen (or read) | 17:02 |
| ijw | I'm just here to wind ChrisPriceAB up | 17:02 |
| svinota | ildikov, let's wait several minutes, it takes a time usually for people to join | 17:02 |
| * ChrisPriceAB is feeling wound... | 17:02 | |
| ijw | My work here is done. | 17:02 |
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| ildikov | armax: mestery: ping | 17:02 |
| ChrisPriceAB | lel | 17:02 |
| ildikov | ijw: ChrisPriceAB: :) | 17:03 |
| mestery | ildikov: hi there! | 17:03 |
| mestery | ijw: you wind everyone up | 17:03 |
| ijw | It's a talent | 17:03 |
| mestery | you could call it that ;) | 17:03 |
| ChrisPriceAB | It's an English thing... | 17:03 |
| mestery | ijw is english? I thought it was all an act! | 17:04 |
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| * ChrisPriceAB think's he might be a returned convict... | 17:04 | |
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| * pc_m lurking | 17:05 | |
| ijw | ChrisPriceAB: coming from a close relation to a wombat that's horribly racist | 17:05 |
| * ildikov wonders how many readers are needed for starting a meeting :) | 17:05 | |
| ChrisPriceAB | better start before things turn ugly... | 17:05 |
| mestery | ildikov: We're likely good, I suggest you run it (you can make me and ijw co-chair if you want assistance) | 17:05 |
| mestery | ChrisPriceAB: Wait, ijw is already here? | 17:06 |
| mestery | Last joke I promise :) | 17:06 |
| ChrisPriceAB | heh | 17:06 |
| ildikov | LOL :) | 17:06 |
| mestery | And I likely owe ijw a few more beers at this point too | 17:06 |
| ildikov | let's start then | 17:06 |
| ijw | mestery: naturally | 17:06 |
| ildikov | #chair mestery | 17:06 |
| openstack | Current chairs: ildikov mestery | 17:06 |
| ildikov | #chair ijw | 17:06 |
| mestery | #chair ijw | 17:06 |
| openstack | Current chairs: ijw ildikov mestery | 17:06 |
| openstack | Current chairs: ijw ildikov mestery | 17:06 |
| mestery | lol | 17:06 |
| ildikov | ok, now we can start :) | 17:07 |
| * ijw feels flushed with power | 17:07 | |
| ildikov | #topic (again) Why VLAN transparency does not fit our needs? | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "(again) Why VLAN transparency does not fit our needs? (Meeting topic: VLAN-aware VMs BP discussion)" | 17:07 | |
| * ChrisPriceAB facepalms... | 17:07 | |
| ijw | Now, this one needs to go into the BP, but we're all basically agreed | 17:07 |
| ijw | VLAN transparency covers VMs that know they're talking on VLANs to each other | 17:08 |
| svinota | looks like not all of us, so I would like to be double sure | 17:08 |
| ijw | This covers VMs where one end isn't talking VLANs and the other one is. | 17:08 |
| svinota | is Armando here, does anyone know? | 17:08 |
| ijw | svinota: If they're going to be 10 minutes late we have to make do without | 17:08 |
| mestery | svinota: armax is lurking I think | 17:08 |
| armax | I am here | 17:09 |
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| ijw | mestery: I thought that violated his parole? | 17:09 |
| mestery | lol | 17:09 |
| mestery | ijw: Remind me what we're arguing about here with regards to use cases? | 17:09 |
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| mestery | I need the tl;dr version, and be gentle | 17:09 |
| svinota | armax, great — pls leave comments also, if you have some, I need to be sure that I didn't miss anything | 17:10 |
| ijw | mestery: this is where you want to connect a VM to more networks than it has interfaces by combining the networks on a VLAN trunk before it comes into the VM | 17:10 |
| armax | svinota: sure | 17:10 |
| ijw | The VLAN trunk - as this BP is designed - doesn't exist on a network, just within the port, because that gives you better control over the settings for the VLAN subports. but that's a design choice. | 17:10 |
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| mestery | ijw: ack | 17:11 |
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| ijw | OK - I'll take it from the silence that we've covered those two topics, so we should probably talk about the crux of the matter | 17:12 |
| svinota | yep | 17:12 |
| ijw | #topic API | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API (Meeting topic: VLAN-aware VMs BP discussion)" | 17:12 | |
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| ijw | If we accept based on above that this is wanted and nothing else does it (which is is) then the problem we have is that the port that attaches to the VM is not quite like a normal port | 17:13 |
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| svinota | if I do understand correctly, there are different opinions, should it be a new port class, or can we use original Neutron port class | 17:13 |
| ijw | The subports connect to a network and 'bind' to the port. The port connecting to the VM doesn't really need to bind to a network. | 17:13 |
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| armax | I personally don’t see this done any other way than a new port class | 17:14 |
| ijw | I think given the parallels the subport just needs a parent port reference in an extension, and is otherwise fairly normal other than the fact that it's not a VM it's bound to (which, while it's unusual, is not out of the scope of what ports do) | 17:14 |
| pcarver | In Cisco-speak this is basically the difference between "switchport mode access" and "switchport mode trunk", correct? | 17:14 |
| pcarver | Currently all Neutron ports are "access" ports | 17:15 |
| ijw | pcarver: yup - and in Linux speak the difference between ifconfig eth0 and ifconfig eth0.0 using the port info | 17:15 |
| * mestery waits for someone to explain this in docker speak | 17:15 | |
| ijw | Well, I'd call them trunk ports, but call them either | 17:15 |
| ijw | In docker speak, networks are scary so go away | 17:15 |
| mestery | +1 to armax | 17:15 |
| svinota | armax, new port class for the trunk port or for all of them? Why can not we use the original class, but make it hierarchical? | 17:16 |
| ijw | So if we were to create a new port class it inherits behaviour from an ur-port, if you will | 17:16 |
| pcarver | armax: I agree, but in terms of terminology it's unfortunate that the word "port" ends up being a subnet of what it means on "real" switches | 17:16 |
| armax | svinota: I thought I had made this point on the spec proposal | 17:16 |
| ijw | If I define ur-port is something that can be attached to a VM, it does that bit, and a port does to. What it can't do is attach to a network. What it additionally does is have subports | 17:17 |
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| ijw | pcarver: Freudian | 17:17 |
| pcarver | right, subset not subnet | 17:17 |
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| armax | but the crux of the matter is that adapting the existing model is incredibily problematic | 17:17 |
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| armax | for a number of standpoints | 17:18 |
| ijw | So, if we were to create a trunkport (which is probably only the first in that category of ports we might want) then (a) what do we call it and (b) how do we implement it in the least scary way? | 17:18 |
| * ijw hands the mic and the warm git repo to armax | 17:18 | |
| ijw | (I've been sitting on it, which is why it's warm, sorry) | 17:18 |
| armax | the most prominent would be that the changes required are pretty invasive and might entirely break the mdoel for all the plugins outta there | 17:19 |
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| armax | let alone the fact that we have so many efforts in-flight that I am not sure how a coordination with them is feasible in such a small amount of time left for Liberty | 17:19 |
| ijw | armax: given the time in the cycle the 'small amount of time' is all we will ever get to do this sort of thing | 17:20 |
| ijw | armax: I think if we use binding to attach to a subport then at least the code can live outside of the plugin | 17:20 |
| armax | you mean port-binding? | 17:20 |
| ijw | Yup | 17:20 |
| ijw | It would be no different on that side to a router | 17:20 |
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| ijw | (Router binding is also a bit broken in that it's limited but still, the model exists) | 17:21 |
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| armax | mine is suggestion | 17:21 |
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| armax | based on my experience on how to work on the codebase on a daily basis, that’s how I would go on about | 17:22 |
| armax | implementing this | 17:22 |
| armax | binding is a hack | 17:22 |
| armax | hijacking the existing port model is a hack | 17:22 |
| armax | sure, they can be used to make this work | 17:22 |
| armax | but that doesn’t make them less of a hack | 17:22 |
| ijw | I tend to disagree on that. | 17:23 |
| armax | they are still a hack | 17:23 |
| armax | surely the hack is one way that could be pursued | 17:23 |
| armax | but that guarantees you 0% chances of success of this effort | 17:23 |
| armax | or very slim anyway | 17:23 |
| ijw | I would agree with a trunk port would be a hack because the thing on longer behaves like a port at all. I think a subport is a normal port - a tap on a network with addresses | 17:23 |
| armax | now I am not saying that going with first class citizen is going to be a bed or roses | 17:24 |
| ijw | But I'm only working with what we have. If you have something you consider to be a cleaner approach that would be great | 17:24 |
| armax | but at least chances are going to be higher and we’d be miniziming the side effects of breaking plugins and causing all sorts of regressions | 17:24 |
| ijw | armax: what would you consider to be a first class citizen? | 17:25 |
| armax | ijw: we don’t have to work with what we have | 17:25 |
| armax | we can build what we need from scratch | 17:25 |
| armax | to enable, effectively what is a new use case | 17:25 |
| ijw | What would you build? | 17:25 |
| svinota | armax, that will mean Nova change as well, won't that? | 17:25 |
| armax | ripping the code apart to make it do what it was not supposed to do isn’t something I would be comfortable to bless | 17:25 |
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| armax | svinota: nova changes will be required more or less nonetheless | 17:25 |
| ijw | armax: I agree with that but you haven't really expressed what the specific problem is or what your alternative suggestion is, can you go further? | 17:26 |
| armax | not sure how further I need to delve into | 17:27 |
| armax | my suggestion is that trunk ports should be first class elements of the API | 17:27 |
| armax | that will bring the minimal amount of disruption to the existing model and changes to the codebase | 17:28 |
| ijw | armax: I think we pretty much agree on that point | 17:28 |
| armax | what else do you need? that I do the coding for you? :) | 17:28 |
| ijw | And I wasn't arguing that point at all | 17:28 |
| svinota | ijw, armax : I will do coding, I just need you opinion to choose the direction :) | 17:28 |
| ijw | But that wasn't what I was saying, I was talking about subports and I wanted to be clear what you thought there | 17:29 |
| armax | svinota: sure, I expressed my opionion here and on the spec | 17:29 |
| armax | svinota: nothing else will make change my mind or recommednation | 17:29 |
| armax | svinota: is there anything else that you would need from me? | 17:29 |
| ijw | armax: subports | 17:29 |
| svinota | armax, subports | 17:29 |
| armax | ijw: go on? | 17:29 |
| ijw | There are two objects here, trunk and subports | 17:30 |
| ijw | subports behave a lot more like traditional ports than trunk ports do | 17:30 |
| svinota | can we use original Neutron ports as subports? | 17:30 |
| ijw | Do you feel that they need to be something different? | 17:30 |
| armax | ok | 17:30 |
| armax | that depends | 17:30 |
| mestery | ijw: you want to make trunks a new object in the API but have subports melded into the existing ports? | 17:31 |
| armax | could a subport be modeled as 1-1 to relationship with a port | 17:31 |
| armax | ? | 17:31 |
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| ijw | armax: yes | 17:31 |
| ijw | mestery: Given that subports behave like existing ports in almost every respect apart from needing a couple of extra bits of information I'm wondering if there's any need to have another object there | 17:31 |
| svinota | (I would say so: can we extend existing port model to be used as subports as well w/o disrupting all the model) | 17:32 |
| armax | is tehre any relationship attribute that needs to be captured? | 17:32 |
| ijw | parent and encap relationships would be needed (and could be extension attrs) | 17:32 |
| armax | well there is no need to capture it in the port model itself then | 17:32 |
| ijw | 'parent' might not be the right word given trunk ports aren't really ports | 17:32 |
| armax | if a subport is a port + some stuff | 17:32 |
| amotoki | it depends on how we model subports. if we introduce a new object "trunk port", we can use a neutron port as subport. "trunk port" ojbect can terminate a normal neutron port and encap it into VLAN. | 17:32 |
| ijw | armax: true enough but it has to go somewhere | 17:32 |
| armax | it can be modeled as its own entity too | 17:33 |
| ijw | armax: it can. The question is the value | 17:33 |
| armax | that can have a 1-1 mapping with port | 17:33 |
| armax | what value? If I need to translate an OO conceptual model into a logical schema | 17:33 |
| armax | that’s the only sensible way forward | 17:33 |
| ijw | OK, so you're suggesting trunk attachment points (let's not call them ports) and encap descriptors that we pair up with a port. | 17:33 |
| armax | strictly speaking you don’t generate a denormalized schema | 17:34 |
| armax | just because it ‘saves' you a table | 17:34 |
| ijw | When they're paired up with a port, the port is bound and can't be used any other way | 17:34 |
| armax | ijw or is there any other value you’re talking about? | 17:34 |
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| ijw | Well, my point is that ports are made to take extension attrs, so I'm asking the question whether having a separate 1:1 object that holds data is the choice to use here | 17:35 |
| ijw | It sounds like a nicer arrangement, but I want to hear your opinion | 17:36 |
| armax | ijw: well as a matter of fact extension attrs are implemented as separate tables | 17:36 |
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| armax | and that is also partially done to ensure that the model addition does not interfere with the rest of the code taht doesn’t understand the extension | 17:37 |
| ijw | Yup | 17:37 |
| ijw | armax: so internally the coding effort is similar. | 17:37 |
| armax | ijw: I guess so, yea | 17:37 |
| ijw | armax, people who want to use this: any particular arguments for or against? | 17:38 |
| ijw | ildikov, ChrisPriceAB, pcarver: speak | 17:38 |
| armax | ijw: all I am debating about is oblivious to the User | 17:38 |
| ChrisPriceAB | I don't think it makes a huge difference. We need to get it in in a way that doesn't cause issues moving forward. | 17:38 |
| armax | the user nneds not to care about how we implement this | 17:38 |
| ChrisPriceAB | And at the end fo the day this is where we would follow guidance from the cores. | 17:39 |
| armax | so long as they have their use case addressed | 17:39 |
| garci_ | Seeing it from the point of view of a user, indeed, I don't care how its done as long as I can attach my vms with a vlan tag. | 17:39 |
| armax | sure the suggestions made here have implications to the API/CLI | 17:39 |
| ildikov | This is my opinion too, we would like to fit this into the Neutron architecture | 17:39 |
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| ChrisPriceAB | So, if I get it all right: we intend to make a new first class "trunk port" object and extend the regular port attributes with relation/encap for association? | 17:40 |
| ildikov | As far as the feature we implement fulfills the use cases we identified, we're good IMHO | 17:40 |
| armax | but they do not lead to any deficiencies of the use case AFAIK | 17:40 |
| HenryG | As 50% of API/DB lieutenant for Neutron, I recommend new "trunk-interface" and "attachment-point" resources. amotoki is the other 50%. (And armax is the third 50% for this discussion :) | 17:40 |
| armax | wow we are at 150% agreement? | 17:40 |
| ChrisPriceAB | :D | 17:40 |
| armax | that’s impressive | 17:41 |
| * ildikov feels issues with the power here :) | 17:41 | |
| armax | HenryG: btw I still need to stand up and drink my gallon of coffee, can you believe that? | 17:41 |
| ChrisPriceAB | let's not get Ian started again... | 17:41 |
| ijw | OK, well one set of you said 'extention attr' and HenryG said 'attachment point', so which have we agreed upon? | 17:41 |
| armax | attachement point is an extension attr is it not? | 17:42 |
| ijw | armax: I could tell you what else it could be but I'm not going to start you off again | 17:42 |
| ijw | So, agreed: | 17:42 |
| ijw | - we create a trunk port (don't call it 'port' or 'interface' please, but something like that) | 17:43 |
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| armax | ijw: not sure what the potential source of discord might be, but once we start seeing some coding then I am sure it’ll be immediately clear what is what | 17:43 |
| ijw | - we add extension attributes to a normal port to indicate it's attached to a trunk port | 17:43 |
| ijw | - ports with these attrs are created bound and can't be used by a VM | 17:44 |
| ijw | And not stated but I think assumed, this would for preference *not* like in the OVS L2 agent or driver, if we can manage it | 17:44 |
| ijw | DOes that summarise accurately? | 17:44 |
| amotoki | i have another view. we create attachment-point on "trunk port" to add some port to "trunk port". | 17:45 |
| * ChrisPriceAB nods | 17:45 | |
| ijw | amotoki: yup, that comes down to the 'separate attachment port object' approach because it's 0+ element list | 17:45 |
| ijw | amotoki, armax: I can see that either will do the job; I just want to pick the best one | 17:46 |
| ijw | (ideally without writing the code for one and changing our mind to the other when it's finished) | 17:46 |
| ildikov | ijw: +1 | 17:46 |
| pcarver | ijw: +1 | 17:47 |
| ijw | amotoki, armax: you're in the ring. No biting, gouging or punching below the belt | 17:47 |
| ijw | And the ref is open to bribery | 17:47 |
| -amotoki- thinking | 17:47 | |
| HenryG | amotoki: how would you "attach" multiple ports to a trunk object? | 17:47 |
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| amotoki | from API perspective, If we go a way of 'separeate attachmetn point", one thing considered is how we represent a "port" connected to VM side. | 17:47 |
| pcarver | I don't think it matters too much what it's called, but armax makes sense. | 17:47 |
| ijw | amotoki: I'd just bind it | 17:48 |
| amotoki | HenryG: what in my mind is similar to L2 gateway modeling. | 17:48 |
| ijw | But it would be hard to spot what it was actually attached to | 17:48 |
| ijw | The attachment point then behaves like a VIF in many ways | 17:48 |
| amotoki | we can create connections on L2GW. Similarly we can create attachment point on "trunk port". | 17:49 |
| amotoki | perhaps i am in the same page as ijw. | 17:49 |
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| ijw | amotoki: I think we're talking about the same thing. Again, I'm not expressing a preference here, I can see both solutions and I would personally take either | 17:50 |
| amotoki | it is all API perspective. I am not sure we address armax's concern on implementatoin complexity. | 17:50 |
| armax | I personally exausted my ability to visualize mentally what we’re saying…too many level of indirections | 17:50 |
| armax | I’d like to see some code if at all possible | 17:51 |
| ijw | armax: wuss | 17:51 |
| armax | ijw: I am | 17:51 |
| armax | bite me | 17:51 |
| armax | :) | 17:51 |
| ijw | armax: just trying to make sure we don't pack someone off who will definitely be writing something you -2 | 17:51 |
| HenryG | armax needs more coffee | 17:51 |
| ijw | I mean, if you capriciously -2 it that's fine | 17:51 |
| armax | ijw: when did that happen? | 17:51 |
| svinota | armax, I need the BP anyway before I can deliver any code — otherwise we will not be in the timeframe | 17:52 |
| ijw | armax: not saying it did, but if we don't understand your concerns then it will happen here | 17:52 |
| ildikov | I would like to get the blueprint into an acceptable shape first | 17:52 |
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| garci_ | +1 | 17:53 |
| ijw | So then, it seems like it's on the spec writers to update the spec at this point. armax can check he likes that | 17:53 |
| * ChrisPriceAB feels we have enough to be concise on the BP now. | 17:53 | |
| armax | ijw: I am sure I agree, we shouldn’t be afraid of taking the wrong turn…it takes much longer to talk than whip up some code and discuss what’s going on | 17:53 |
| ijw | (which it sounds like he will) | 17:53 |
| amotoki | as far as I looked the spec, even though we go either way of API modeling the implementation will be similar. | 17:53 |
| ijw | armax: talk faster | 17:53 |
| svinota | ijw, I will update, but I need you guys to have some common vision :) | 17:53 |
| armax | all I care is that we minimize the dependencies on the existing model | 17:53 |
| ijw | So we need a trunk port primary object thing that Nova can bind that isn't a conventional port | 17:54 |
| armax | and that we don’t rip it out as a result of this effrt | 17:54 |
| ijw | (which implies a new table) | 17:54 |
| armax | ijw: it sounds to me that I have set my bar pretty low | 17:54 |
| ijw | And we need either port attributes in an extension or a separate endpoint object | 17:54 |
| ijw | If we have something along those lines I think it will get a good reception. | 17:54 |
| ijw | Would anyone disagree? | 17:55 |
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| ijw | Except armax, he doesn't count | 17:55 |
| svinota | ijw, I will update the BP tomorrow morning | 17:55 |
| armax | ijw: now you’re talking sense | 17:55 |
| * armax doesn’t exist | 17:55 | |
| ijw | armax: I talk so much it has to happen occasionally | 17:55 |
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| ijw | OK, so we now have 5 minutes to insult ChrisPriceAB in the meeting record | 17:55 |
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| ijw | #topic Insults | 17:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Insults (Meeting topic: VLAN-aware VMs BP discussion)" | 17:56 | |
| svinota | finally :) yeah | 17:56 |
| ChrisPriceAB | hehe, give it your best shot | 17:56 |
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| * ChrisPriceAB is not competent enough to understand a good insult... | 17:56 | |
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| * armax is okay being insulted | 17:56 | |
| ijw | I worry about insulting people who have evolved to be poisonous | 17:56 |
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| * armax is like a kitty | 17:57 | |
| ildikov | it's too late for me to insult anyone | 17:57 |
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| ijw | ildikov: I'm disappointed | 17:57 |
| ildikov | armax: you mean Hello Kitty? :) | 17:57 |
| ijw | ildikov: Oh no, that counts | 17:57 |
| armax | sure why not | 17:57 |
| ChrisPriceAB | Damn, next time give us some warning ijw. This didn't turn out very well... | 17:57 |
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| ijw | See, we're even driving people away now | 17:58 |
| HenryG | ijw managed to waste an hour of everyone's time | 17:58 |
| HenryG | (is that an insult?) | 17:58 |
| ijw | HenryG: I'm sorry | 17:58 |
| ijw | I can usually manage longer than an hour | 17:58 |
| ildikov | armax: sorry :) | 17:58 |
| ChrisPriceAB | hehe, hey Ian can you link the picyure of the unicorn Ildikov drew? | 17:58 |
| ildikov | ok, thanks everyone, I think we managed to choose a direction, which is good | 17:59 |
| armax | all right guys, feel free to poke me anything | 17:59 |
| armax | anytime | 17:59 |
| ijw | https://twitter.com/lan_wan_ian/status/601073060783923201 | 17:59 |
| ChrisPriceAB | ack, thanks all | 17:59 |
| svinota | great. Anyways, armax , ijw , mestery , HenryG , amotoki , ChrisPriceAB , ildikov — thanks all. | 17:59 |
| * armax corrects himself | 17:59 | |
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| ChrisPriceAB | wrong ijw!!!! | 17:59 |
| ijw | Oh, not wrong | 17:59 |
| ildikov | svinota will update the blueprint asap, let's get it approved in time and also let's start on do some coding to make armax happy too :) | 17:59 |
| armax | ildikov: I am hardly pleased, but thanks for trying ;) | 18:00 |
| amotoki | thanks, ijw and all. | 18:00 |
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| ijw | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 18:00:16 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vlan_aware_vms_bp_discussion/2015/vlan_aware_vms_bp_discussion.2015-06-16-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vlan_aware_vms_bp_discussion/2015/vlan_aware_vms_bp_discussion.2015-06-16-17.00.txt | 18:00 |
| mestery | thanks! | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vlan_aware_vms_bp_discussion/2015/vlan_aware_vms_bp_discussion.2015-06-16-17.00.log.html | 18:00 |
| armax | bye | 18:00 |
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| svinota | bye | 18:00 |
| ildikov | armax: np :) | 18:00 |
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| ildikov | armax: bye | 18:00 |
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