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| eglute | #startmeeting DefCore | 01:00 |
|---|---|---|
| hogepodge | o/ | 01:00 |
| markvoelker | o/ | 01:00 |
| eglute | Hi Everyone! if you are attending defcore meeting, do as hogepodge and markvoelker! o/ | 01:01 |
| markvoelker | hmm...is meetbot down? | 01:01 |
| *** hughhalf has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 01:01 | |
| eglute | is it? | 01:01 |
| eglute | maybe it just does not like me | 01:02 |
| markvoelker | #startmeeting | 01:02 |
| openstack | markvoelker: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 01:02 |
| markvoelker | #startmeeting DefCore | 01:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 11 01:02:37 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markvoelker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 01:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 01:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 01:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'defcore' | 01:02 |
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| purp | o/ | 01:02 |
| markvoelker | #chair eglute | 01:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: eglute markvoelker | 01:02 |
| hughhalf | . | 01:02 |
| zehicle | o/ | 01:02 |
| markvoelker | #chair zehicle | 01:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: eglute markvoelker zehicle | 01:03 |
| eglute | thanks, it didnt like me then. | 01:03 |
| zehicle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.3 | 01:03 |
| markvoelker | no problem....I'll turn it over to you to drive now. =) | 01:03 |
| eglute | thank you markvoelker | 01:03 |
| zehicle | roll call pleasde | 01:03 |
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| eglute | o/ | 01:04 |
| zehicle | please indicate your time zone also, I'd like to make sure that we're accomplishing our objective | 01:04 |
| zehicle | o/ Central | 01:04 |
| eglute | o/ CST | 01:04 |
| markvoelker | o/ EDT | 01:04 |
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| dwalleck | o/ CST | 01:04 |
| hughhalf | o/ AEST - GMT+10 (Canberra Australia) | 01:04 |
| hogepodge | o/ PDT | 01:04 |
| purp | PDT | 01:05 |
| purp | o/ PDT | 01:05 |
| eglute | someone emailed the list and said this time does not work for him, he is in GMT +12 | 01:05 |
| zehicle | yy, that's Robert | 01:05 |
| eglute | y | 01:05 |
| zehicle | ok, I'm thinking to follow the agenda on the ether pad | 01:06 |
| zehicle | please make additions/changes there and we'll incorporate it | 01:06 |
| eglute | sounds good | 01:06 |
| zehicle | #topic mid-cycle meeting | 01:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mid-cycle meeting (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 01:06 | |
| zehicle | I'd like to have use close (or have a plan to close) the location & timing | 01:07 |
| zehicle | do we have quorum to do that here? | 01:07 |
| purp | Checked in with mtreinish; he's looking at late July/early August. Trying to sync with infra midcycle | 01:07 |
| zehicle | We've got some block out times: OSCON & OpenStack BoD | 01:08 |
| eglute | zehicle regarding quorum, we had some people last week that said they would travel, some are not here right now | 01:08 |
| zehicle | yy | 01:08 |
| zehicle | I suspect that we cannot close it tonight. if so, can we get it down to two choices? | 01:08 |
| zehicle | maybe 3 | 01:09 |
| purp | Seems reasonable. | 01:09 |
| eglute | my concern with waiting too long is that then we are at timeline July 27 (Summit - 3 months) | 01:09 |
| * zehicle gets his calendar out | 01:09 | |
| eglute | BoD is on July 28th (Tuesday), oscon week before that | 01:09 |
| purp | Week of July 6? | 01:10 |
| purp | Too early? | 01:10 |
| zehicle | I'm on vacation th week after | 01:10 |
| zehicle | and traveling the week of July 6 | 01:10 |
| zehicle | So, 7/13 week | 01:10 |
| zehicle | Could we plan it like this: | 01:10 |
| zehicle | 1) SJC week of 7/13 | 01:11 |
| zehicle | 2) PDX week of 7/20 | 01:11 |
| zehicle | 3) ATX week of 7/27 | 01:11 |
| zehicle | with a target dates of Wed-Thurs | 01:11 |
| eglute | works for me. | 01:11 |
| purp | I can't make 13 Jul - 13 Aug. But we knew that. | 01:11 |
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| eglute | so doodle to the mailing list with the dates? | 01:12 |
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| zehicle | that' | 01:12 |
| eglute | #action eglute send out doodle to the mailing list with date options | 01:12 |
| zehicle | #topic v1.3 schema | 01:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "v1.3 schema (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 01:13 | |
| zehicle | so we merged the v1.3 schema with some discussion still potentially open | 01:13 |
| eglute | yes, i think there were some things that were missed. | 01:14 |
| zehicle | markvoelker, were you OK w/ the latest HACKING or did we jump the gun? | 01:14 |
| eglute | lots of comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185158/, so if something was missed, please submit a new patch | 01:14 |
| hogepodge | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185158/ | 01:14 |
| markvoelker | So, I think the thing we may have overlooked was the bit where we removed the ability to drop tests completely... | 01:14 |
| eglute | i think there was at least one thing missed, need to find the new patch that was created that called it out | 01:15 |
| eglute | yeah | 01:15 |
| zehicle | It looks like we've started the discussion on the new patch | 01:15 |
| eglute | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189961/ | 01:15 |
| eglute | ^^ new patch | 01:15 |
| markvoelker | I wasn't sure if that was intentional or not though | 01:15 |
| eglute | not intentional! | 01:16 |
| hogepodge | yup, we need to be able to drop tests from next. I had proposed a change to do that, but it didn't make it in. | 01:16 |
| hogepodge | which is part of the point of next, to resolve outstanding flags. | 01:16 |
| markvoelker | Ok, so that should be relatively easy to correct | 01:16 |
| markvoelker | Shall I submit a patch for it, or does someone already have one in the works? | 01:16 |
| eglute | the previous patch ended up with too many comments and i could not tell that something was still not resolved. so yes, we need to fix it | 01:17 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: you should feel free to do that | 01:17 |
| eglute | #action markvoelker submit a patch to fix process for removing tests | 01:17 |
| hogepodge | I don't have one in the works that's ready to go | 01:17 |
| zehicle | I'd like to make sure that the patch w/ the flags stays about flags | 01:17 |
| eglute | +1 | 01:17 |
| zehicle | do we have tests that need to be removed? where did they go? | 01:17 |
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| markvoelker | zehicle: Yes, see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189961/ | 01:18 |
| hogepodge | zehicle: yes, there are tests that are hypervisor specific | 01:18 |
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| zehicle | soundn't we keep the tests but flag them? | 01:18 |
| hogepodge | and this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189979/ | 01:18 |
| hogepodge | In next? No. | 01:19 |
| zehicle | I thought that was the purpose of the flags? | 01:19 |
| eglute | i think the hypervisor one should be dropped, based on the discussions | 01:19 |
| zehicle | I'm worried about having tests in the system that don't show up | 01:19 |
| markvoelker | zehicle: these are tests for capabilities that never should have been DefCore in the first place b/c they fail Core Criteria | 01:19 |
| zehicle | +1 on that | 01:19 |
| markvoelker | So we could keep them...forever... | 01:19 |
| zehicle | except that they would be flags | 01:19 |
| hogepodge | My understanding is that a required test is something we want, and that the actions on a flag are to fix or remove. | 01:19 |
| markvoelker | But that would just create clutter and we'd have to re-evaluate them every cycle | 01:19 |
| markvoelker | Whcih seems like a waste of resources | 01:19 |
| zehicle | not if the flag reason was clear | 01:20 |
| zehicle | OR... could we put them into a capability? | 01:20 |
| zehicle | I'm worried that we're going to have them pop up every cycle for review | 01:20 |
| eglute | in hypervisor case, it would not meet the common use case | 01:20 |
| zehicle | I'd rather make a decision about them one time and let it ride | 01:20 |
| hogepodge | confusing to end users. I've been telling vendors that a flag means a capability is required, but has a problematic test. | 01:20 |
| zehicle | that still seems like a "compute-hypervisor-vendor-specific" capability | 01:21 |
| markvoelker | zehicle: so we had recently decided that we were going to re-evaluate all flagged tests at the beginning of every cycle. | 01:21 |
| zehicle | then the cap is NOT required | 01:21 |
| hogepodge | zehicle: if that's the case I misunderstood the purpose then | 01:21 |
| purp | This seems to point up the need for multiple flag types. No? | 01:21 |
| zehicle | I' | 01:21 |
| markvoelker | So if we just leave them in the flag list indefinitely we're going to be re-evaling them indefinitely | 01:21 |
| markvoelker | And that list is going to get longer and longer | 01:21 |
| zehicle | I'm happy to discuss.... my understanding was that we'd eventually list _every_ test | 01:21 |
| hogepodge | zehicle: I thought that a capability couldn't be removed in a cycle, but could in the next. | 01:21 |
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| zehicle | hogepodge, so we can flag them and move them | 01:21 |
| hogepodge | zehicle: but it shouldn't be in the required capability list | 01:22 |
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| markvoelker | zehicle: I don't think it's feasible to list every test. That's a moving target. | 01:22 |
| dwalleck | Does it make sense to have capabilities that are driver specific? As in, if you are using a certain driver, within that context the expected behaviors are <things> | 01:22 |
| hogepodge | zehicle: moving I'm ok with too | 01:22 |
| markvoelker | Especially when you consider non-tempest tests | 01:22 |
| zehicle | markvoelker, eventually, it would be good to have them all tracked somehow since we want the data from all of them | 01:22 |
| zehicle | dwalleck, we can have all sorts of capabilities. it's helpful to users to map functionality | 01:23 |
| markvoelker | zehicle: I'm saying that eventually will never come though....the tests are moving much faster than we are. | 01:23 |
| zehicle | we just don't have to require them | 01:23 |
| hogepodge | we have a mechanism for listing all of the tests, it's the repository the test comes from | 01:23 |
| eglute | is this a topic we should leave for mid-cycle? | 01:24 |
| zehicle | I'm OK w/ this suggestion - I have some concerns based on earlier postures | 01:24 |
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| zehicle | if we're thinking it's not a big deal then I'm OK to remove | 01:24 |
| zehicle | since we have a lot of tests that are not covered | 01:24 |
| zehicle | I just want to make sure that we don't keep trying to re-add them | 01:25 |
| eglute | i think for now, i vote +1 to remove | 01:25 |
| markvoelker | So, how about this: I'll just propose the patch and we can discuss it there. I'm happy to be overruled if folks think differently | 01:25 |
| purp | markvoelker: +1 | 01:25 |
| eglute | works for me | 01:25 |
| markvoelker | (in fact, I thought I had been overruled when the schema change with the procedure change landed! =p) | 01:25 |
| markvoelker | #action markvoelker to propose patch for test removal | 01:26 |
| zehicle | no, we wanted to split the discussion | 01:26 |
| zehicle | that's why we want to make sure to cover it here | 01:26 |
| zehicle | because we suspected that the non v1.3 issues had not been resolved | 01:26 |
| eglute | +1 on splitting discussions in patches as appropriate. otherwise important issues get lost | 01:26 |
| zehicle | based on discussion here, it seems like v1.3 is OK | 01:27 |
| markvoelker | I'll get that patch up tomorrow morning so we can get moving on it and have decision soonish so Chris's patches can move forward or be refactored | 01:27 |
| zehicle | and we're aware that some of the issues in that patch need further discussion | 01:27 |
| eglute | yes | 01:27 |
| zehicle | mission accomplished | 01:27 |
| zehicle | other discussion on v1.3 patch and related skeltons unearthed? | 01:27 |
| * zehicle thinks we unblocked a lot of good discussion around flagging | 01:28 | |
| hogepodge | need a proper validating schema? | 01:28 |
| eglute | the skeletons might be hiding in the next topic | 01:28 |
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| hogepodge | Also, gate job to ensure json is parsable? | 01:28 |
| hogepodge | and correct? | 01:28 |
| zehicle | #topic capabilities subdivisions | 01:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "capabilities subdivisions (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 01:28 | |
| zehicle | hogepodge, +1 | 01:28 |
| zehicle | getting more critical w/ each addition | 01:29 |
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| zehicle | Van was not going to make this meeting | 01:29 |
| zehicle | I had two items related | 01:30 |
| eglute | right, i think we skipped this topic last week as well | 01:30 |
| zehicle | 1) who/when can we get the capabilities subsets done | 01:30 |
| zehicle | ? | 01:30 |
| zehicle | does someone have that list? | 01:30 |
| hogepodge | It's in a google sheet that I'm sure I can dig up a link for given enough time. | 01:30 |
| zehicle | that has the correct subdivisions? | 01:30 |
| zehicle | hogepodge, will doing that break all your patches? | 01:31 |
| hogepodge | Van and Catherine have been the primary contributors, and both aren't here (Catherine should be back next week) | 01:31 |
| eglute | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15Fkt2n95WPPe7CYH-0WIKz3dhMeW3FW2gl5aSlamEeY/edit#gid=6 | 01:31 |
| eglute | right, i think Van will be as well | 01:31 |
| hogepodge | zehicle: I'm not worried about the patches, they can be rewritten if the schema updates. I wanted to reclassify the tests for discussion, and figured those patches would be long lived and require rebasing | 01:31 |
| zehicle | ok | 01:32 |
| eglute | so skip this topic for now? | 01:32 |
| zehicle | so, can we get that subdivision done? | 01:32 |
| hogepodge | It's probably a matter of automation based on the list, so yes? | 01:33 |
| zehicle | I'm worried about it causing downstream work if we delay | 01:33 |
| zehicle | if you've got the material in that format | 01:33 |
| zehicle | it's really not that much data to tweak | 01:33 |
| zehicle | I'm thinking about 30 minutes tops | 01:34 |
| zehicle | so, likely less effort than automation | 01:34 |
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| zehicle | the cap list is not the question - it's the test membership | 01:34 |
| zehicle | that's what was missing from the earlier patch | 01:34 |
| eglute | hogepodge is this something you can work on with Van and Catherine? | 01:35 |
| hogepodge | I can | 01:35 |
| eglute | thank you hogepodge | 01:35 |
| zehicle | ok, I see the list now | 01:35 |
| eglute | #action hogepodge work with Van and Catherine to subdivide capabilities | 01:35 |
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| zehicle | depending on the flags, they may actually be able to merge cleanly | 01:36 |
| zehicle | the second part was just the we had a discussion about how to score capabilities in IRC | 01:37 |
| zehicle | in the #openstack-defcore channel | 01:37 |
| zehicle | the short version is that Van suggested a way to vote that may work | 01:38 |
| zehicle | we'll need to try it sometime soon | 01:38 |
| eglute | if everyone is looking at the spreadsheet, voting should work | 01:38 |
| markvoelker | zehicle: got a link or a date when that happened? Was probably while I was on PTO and I'd love to read... | 01:38 |
| zehicle | hogepodge, are there any new capabilities under consideration? | 01:38 |
| markvoelker | I can dig in eavesdrop if not | 01:38 |
| eglute | markvoelker i think that happened over the phone? | 01:38 |
| hogepodge | zehicle: not that I know of immediately | 01:38 |
| zehicle | it was IRC | 01:38 |
| zehicle | yesterday I think - around 4pm Central | 01:39 |
| markvoelker | Ok, I'll dig and post a link if I can turn it up before end of topic | 01:39 |
| zehicle | was a big burst of activity including patches around that time | 01:39 |
| markvoelker | thanks | 01:39 |
| eglute | i missed then as well | 01:39 |
| dwalleck_ | I'd be glad to help with capabilities as well. I should have the bandwidth | 01:39 |
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| zehicle | wanted to make sure that people were are we'd dicussed it - we'll need to formally doc it before we try it | 01:39 |
| eglute | thank you dwalleck_ ! | 01:40 |
| zehicle | dwalleck_ and hogepodge I think you've got all the data you need to subdivide from the spreadsheet | 01:40 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/defcore_scoring is a log of that conversation | 01:40 |
| markvoelker | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-defcore/%23openstack-defcore.2015-06-09.log.html#t2015-06-09T20:04:03 | 01:40 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: or that too :-) | 01:40 |
| markvoelker | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/defcore_scoring | 01:41 |
| markvoelker | Thanks hogepodge | 01:41 |
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| purp | Thanks hogepodge | 01:41 |
| zehicle | next topic.... | 01:41 |
| zehicle | #review hacking file (flag tests) | 01:41 |
| zehicle | #topic review hacking file (flag tests) | 01:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review hacking file (flag tests) (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 01:41 | |
| zehicle | 20 minutes remaining and this could be the rest.... | 01:41 |
| zehicle | other topics first? | 01:41 |
| * zehicle reserves last few minutes to review the choice of time | 01:42 | |
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| eglute | i think we need to resolve this... dont think other topics will be short either | 01:42 |
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| purp | This is the one I missed last week, yes? | 01:42 |
| eglute | yes i think so | 01:43 |
| zehicle | purp, it's a long runniung thread | 01:43 |
| eglute | there is a patch somewhere, let me find it | 01:43 |
| * purp is jealous of the stereo zehicles. | 01:43 | |
| markvoelker | To be clear, are we talking about this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188661 | 01:43 |
| zehicle | yy | 01:43 |
| zehicle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188661/ | 01:43 |
| markvoelker | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188661 | 01:43 |
| eglute | yes, thanks markvoelker | 01:43 |
| markvoelker | So IMHO there's not that much that's really controversial in the patch. I made a few suggestions in the review. | 01:44 |
| zehicle | oh, can we cover #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182105/ first? | 01:44 |
| markvoelker | The big question for me is: is the list intended to be exhaustive? | 01:44 |
| markvoelker | zehicle: sure | 01:44 |
| zehicle | markvoelker, I think so. that's a good catch | 01:44 |
| zehicle | ok, back to the 2015A patch for a minute | 01:44 |
| markvoelker | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182105/ | 01:45 |
| hogepodge | Oh, that's mine. | 01:45 |
| zehicle | I wanted to discuss my objections and make sure that we were on the same page | 01:45 |
| zehicle | yy, you were adding flag details to the 2015A process | 01:45 |
| zehicle | to an extent, we did not add those details there on purpose | 01:46 |
| zehicle | since they were left to DefCore to manage | 01:46 |
| zehicle | I'm open to discussion that they should be part of the broader process | 01:46 |
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| zehicle | but it would have to be 2015B in that case and go back to the board | 01:46 |
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| markvoelker | Yeah, I think this one predates some of the recent changes to HACKING that came in with schema 1.3. | 01:47 |
| markvoelker | Much of this is now covered there | 01:47 |
| zehicle | you are correct markvoelker | 01:47 |
| markvoelker | E.g. rule D307 covers what is required when flagging a test | 01:47 |
| hogepodge | I'd like something to make flagging a harder thing to do | 01:47 |
| hogepodge | if that's covered in hacking, fine. | 01:48 |
| zehicle | that was the goal of getting written down in hacking | 01:48 |
| * zehicle hacking is not the most obvious name for rules of engagement | 01:48 | |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: D307 basically says "everything in the current schema's flagging section is required", so I think we're good there | 01:48 |
| markvoelker | I'm happy to obtain different opinions though. =) | 01:49 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: I can't find what's in the schema though. I don't think it's documented | 01:49 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: https://github.com/openstack/defcore/tree/master/schema | 01:49 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: ah, ok | 01:49 |
| zehicle | hogepodge, I moved it so we could track versions | 01:49 |
| zehicle | since I was changing a lot of comments when I was fixing the readme | 01:50 |
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| zehicle | I just wanted to resolve if we felt there was a process change beyond hacking required | 01:50 |
| hogepodge | hacking needs more guidance along the lines of what I wrote, but is that part of what markvoelker is going to send up as part of his action item? | 01:51 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: guidance about when a flag can be removed, or...? | 01:52 |
| zehicle | I have no issues adding the rules | 01:52 |
| zehicle | my concern was about where | 01:52 |
| zehicle | 2015B would be the right place if we wanted it at the board level | 01:52 |
| zehicle | Hacking is right if we think we can hold the line | 01:53 |
| eglute | some flagging guidance should be in 2015B i think | 01:53 |
| eglute | but maybe not as detailed | 01:53 |
| markvoelker | zehicle: I'm of the opinion that this level of detail isn't of interest to the Board. But then, I'm not on the Board. =) | 01:53 |
| hogepodge | plus info about removing tests in next (or not) | 01:53 |
| zehicle | +1 | 01:53 |
| zehicle | there are some items that the process leaves to defcore | 01:54 |
| dwalleck_ | hackings have always been a good "how do I work within this project" place to me | 01:54 |
| markvoelker | hogepodge: I'll definitely hit the removal of tests in .next in my patch | 01:54 |
| eglute | so sounds like everyone in favor of when to flag and what, when to remove to put hacking doc? | 01:54 |
| purp | Agree. | 01:54 |
| zehicle | test membership and flagging are both in that category | 01:54 |
| eglute | should we create a separate flagging process doc? | 01:54 |
| zehicle | I | 01:55 |
| zehicle | I'm ok w/ them in hacking - since it's central | 01:55 |
| eglute | ok | 01:55 |
| zehicle | let's collect them there and see if we need more | 01:55 |
| markvoelker | eglute: I thought about that, but came around to kind of liking it in HACKING | 01:55 |
| hogepodge | five minute warning | 01:55 |
| zehicle | as long as we all agree with the location, the name of the file works for me | 01:55 |
| markvoelker | Basically b/c I suspect the flagging process is an area where people not routinely involved in DefCore will want to interact with us | 01:55 |
| eglute | markvoelker ok, that works for me if we have consensus. most important to have them somewhere :) | 01:55 |
| markvoelker | and HACKING is, as dwalleck_ pointed out, where to look for info about how to interact with a project | 01:56 |
| zehicle | easy enough to xlink in the readme | 01:56 |
| eglute | works for me then | 01:56 |
| zehicle | ok, my topic on that patch took most of the time. sorry | 01:56 |
| purp | +1 HACKING | 01:56 |
| zehicle | markvoelker, +1 on adding a "list is comprehensive" statement | 01:56 |
| zehicle | we don't want flag to be allowed because we did not think of a reason to block them | 01:57 |
| zehicle | if a new reason surfaces then we can discuss | 01:57 |
| zehicle | except for pixie dust | 01:57 |
| zehicle | not up for discussion | 01:57 |
| eglute | flag neutron: because of pixie dust. | 01:58 |
| zehicle | #topic is this time working? | 01:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "is this time working? (Meeting topic: DefCore)" | 01:58 | |
| zehicle | just a check | 01:58 |
| markvoelker | zehicle: I'm also curious about the difference b/t D401 and D402. Didn't really seem to be one? | 01:58 |
| purp | Hard for PDT ... family dinner hour. | 01:58 |
| zehicle | did we get additional audience based on the time? | 01:59 |
| eglute | no, less people | 01:59 |
| purp | markvoelker: I read D401 as "inadequately tests" and D402 as "test fails inappropriately" | 01:59 |
| markvoelker | time is ok for me...note that we have an AI to re-eval this in ~a month to see if it's working | 01:59 |
| zehicle | dwalleck_, you are our rep from alternate time zone | 01:59 |
| eglute | dwalleck_ is in CST | 01:59 |
| dwalleck_ | yup | 01:59 |
| zehicle | oh, sorry | 01:59 |
| purp | That's pretty alternate. I've been there. | 01:59 |
| dwalleck_ | Though the nice thing about this time is that it's not possible to conflict with anything else :) | 01:59 |
| eglute | we do have someone from Australia | 02:00 |
| zehicle | who was our | 02:00 |
| hogepodge | hughhalf: is in australian time zone | 02:00 |
| dwalleck_ | well, work conflict | 02:00 |
| markvoelker | purp: hrm. I guess I read both as "the test is borked". =) | 02:00 |
| zehicle | it was hughhalf | 02:00 |
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| eglute | hughhalf what do you think? | 02:00 |
| hogepodge | AEST - GMT+10 (Canberra Australia) | 02:00 |
| hughhalf | Sorry, stepped away, one mo please | 02:00 |
| zehicle | I think you've answered the question | 02:00 |
| hughhalf | Doorbell rang! :) | 02:01 |
| purp | Heh. | 02:01 |
| eglute | ok, we will try couple more times and then re-evaluate i think! | 02:01 |
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| zehicle | eglute, +1 | 02:01 |
| hogepodge | any meetings following this? please tell us to vacate if so. | 02:01 |
| eglute | we agreed to give it a month | 02:01 |
| hughhalf | So yes, this time is ok for me | 02:01 |
| zehicle | just wanted to test it at the end | 02:01 |
| zehicle | not suggesting a change | 02:01 |
| * hughhalf nods | 02:01 | |
| purp | #action purp will ping Robert to see what times work better (due before end of June) | 02:02 |
| zehicle | we're done | 02:02 |
| eglute | thank you everyone! | 02:02 |
| markvoelker | zehicle: did you want me to propose a new patchset for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188661/3/HACKING.rst or did you want to? | 02:02 |
| zehicle | any addition discussion, we'll be on regular channel | 02:02 |
| * hughhalf notest that fwiw a time that will work for Robert will likely work for most Oz folk too. | 02:02 | |
| hughhalf | thanks all | 02:02 |
| zehicle | markvoelker, go ahead | 02:02 |
| zehicle | I was just getting it started | 02:02 |
| zehicle | #endmeeting | 02:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 02:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 11 02:02:48 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 02:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-06-11-01.02.html | 02:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-06-11-01.02.txt | 02:02 |
| markvoelker | ok, I'll tee that up for tomorrow after the other one then. Thanks | 02:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/defcore/2015/defcore.2015-06-11-01.02.log.html | 02:02 |
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| nikhil_k | Courtesy meeting reminder: ativelkov, cpallares, esheffield, flaper87, flwang1, hemanthm, ivasilevskaya, jokke_, kragniz, lakshmiS, mclaren, mfedosin, nikhil_k, Nikolay_St, Olena, pennerc, rosmaita, sigmavirus24, sabari, TravT, zhiyan, pkoniszewski, krykowski, ajayaa, GB21, bpoulos | 13:59 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 13:59 |
| kragniz | hey hey | 13:59 |
| ivasilevskaya | o/ | 13:59 |
| nikhil_k | #startmeeting Glance | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 11 14:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is nikhil_k. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 14:00 |
| nikhil_k | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda | 14:00 |
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| ativelkov | o/ | 14:00 |
| kragniz | o/ | 14:00 |
| mfedosin | o/ | 14:00 |
| nikhil_k | Welcome all! | 14:00 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 14:01 |
| nikhil_k | We have a short agenda today ; and looks like a decent turnout for it. So thanks! | 14:01 |
| nikhil_k | Let's get started | 14:01 |
| nikhil_k | #topic Updates | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Updates (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:01 | |
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| rosmaita | o/ | 14:02 |
| agalkin | o/ | 14:02 |
| dshakhray | o/ | 14:02 |
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| nikhil_k | #info Glance mid-cycle to be very likely co-located with Horizon and SearchLight mid-cycle on the week of July 21 for 2-3 days. Venue to be annouced soon. #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w0eI6SPCA2IrOyHiEYC2uDO3fbYGzahZRUQSva0UD3Y/edit#gid=0 | 14:02 |
| nikhil_k | The date was finalized so that people can start talking to their management for getting the travel approved. | 14:03 |
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| flaper87 | why was the other week cancelled ? | 14:04 |
| ativelkov | Approval usually depends on budget, and budget depends on location :) | 14:04 |
| nikhil_k | We tried to keep it earlier in the cycle however, the attempt to co-locate with Nova failed and then scheduling complications delayed the decision a lot more. After having more than an hour long chat with Horizon and SearchLight PTLs yesterday we were able to come up with a date. | 14:04 |
| sabari | o/ | 14:05 |
| flaper87 | that's unfortunate, I won't be able to attend | 14:05 |
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| nikhil_k | I had made a full attempt to keep it on July 8 until last week however, the pre-conversation and then conversation with Nova team delayed things a bit | 14:05 |
| flaper87 | Sorry for being so bold but, in this specific case, what would be the benefit of co-locating with Horizon and searchlight ? | 14:06 |
| flaper87 | well, I see the point about searchlight | 14:06 |
| flaper87 | is it the venue? | 14:06 |
| nikhil_k | Also, keeping it later was seen as a failure to keep it mid-cycle and would reduce the value of the meetip a lot more | 14:06 |
| nikhil_k | 'Mid' cycle * | 14:07 |
| rosmaita | mid-cycle sessions started as an experimental thing, but it looks like they are becoming almost mandatory ... maybe we should get th openstack foundation to start handling scheduling and stuff | 14:07 |
| jokke_ | rosmaita: ++ | 14:07 |
| rosmaita | they could take into account "rival" conference conflicts | 14:07 |
| nikhil_k | rosmaita: We had some converstion last cycle about this | 14:07 |
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| nikhil_k | the feedback was that these should not be conveyed as mandatory | 14:07 |
| flaper87 | right but the discussions in the mid-cycle are very important | 14:08 |
| rosmaita | flaper87: +1 | 14:08 |
| flaper87 | the topics we discuss there are *mandatory* for our release and priorities | 14:08 |
| nikhil_k | for various reasons -- like different team want to keep them at isolated venues, keep a different style andwant to get different things out of it | 14:08 |
| rosmaita | flaper87: +1 | 14:08 |
| flaper87 | and it's a real bummer and pain to not be able to attend to the mid-cycle | 14:08 |
| flaper87 | since many times, for those not there, these comes down to "I've no freaking idea of what happened there" | 14:08 |
| rosmaita | i think if the foundation could take on scheduling, it would reduce the burden on PTLs trying to set thinkgs up | 14:09 |
| flaper87 | unless you stay up 'til 2am to attend through phone calls | 14:09 |
| rosmaita | they could still be "optional" | 14:09 |
| flaper87 | (sorry, I don't mean to take it on anyone) | 14:09 |
| nikhil_k | flaper87: how about we bring this up in next weeks TC meeting? I actually would love to have a formal process for such important event but it was pushed back hard the last time | 14:09 |
| rosmaita | but the foundation could find locations, etc, rotate where they are held, etc | 14:09 |
| jokke_ | I just don't see the conflict between Foundation scheduled and non-mandatory | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | the foundation should have administrative assistant support that projects don't | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | jokke_: +1 | 14:10 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: I'll bring this up but this'll likely come down to "it's not mandatory and the foundation can't do anything about it" | 14:10 |
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| flaper87 | it's really hard for companies to afford mid-cycles+summits | 14:10 |
| flaper87 | and for people to travel to all those things and still be able to take care of their families | 14:10 |
| flaper87 | so, it's a problem | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | flaper87: then maybe propose changing to a 3 month release cycle | 14:10 |
| nikhil_k | The point is when foundation handle it project preferences become secondary. The hard part is being able to co-locate | 14:11 |
| flaper87 | as soon as the foundation weights in in any way, it'll change the meaning of the mid-cycle entirely (which already happened implicitly) | 14:11 |
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| flaper87 | rosmaita: well, nothing forbids us to do it | 14:11 |
| flaper87 | ironic just did it :D | 14:11 |
| nikhil_k | 3 month cycles would have a ton of overhead for release mgmt | 14:11 |
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| flaper87 | it'll be really hard to sync with other projects that depend on Glance | 14:12 |
| nikhil_k | we would be in freeze a lot more | 14:12 |
| rosmaita | nikhil_k: i know, so supporting a mid-cycle meeting is much cheaper in comparison | 14:12 |
| jokke_ | flaper87: but does it in the bad way ... I'd assume if it's Foundation "supported" event it's easier for manager to justify the travel & time for it | 14:12 |
| sigmavirus24 | not financially though ;) | 14:12 |
| flaper87 | sigmavirus24: ++ | 14:12 |
| sigmavirus24 | also this is a bit orthogonal to the discussion | 14:12 |
| flaper87 | sigmavirus24: LOL | 14:12 |
| flaper87 | you're right | 14:12 |
| sigmavirus24 | (whether the foundation handles midcycle planning or not) | 14:12 |
| rosmaita | so we all agree that the midcycle meetings are good | 14:12 |
| sigmavirus24 | (that's a TC decision ;)) | 14:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | rosmaita: I didn't say that =P | 14:13 |
| rosmaita | do we move htem to video only? | 14:13 |
| nikhil_k | May be we need to decide on the location before the summit like Nova tried to do in Kilo-Liberty | 14:13 |
| flaper87 | anyway, my point is that I'd like us to prioritize more on our team rather than co-location (unless I'm missing something, venue?) | 14:13 |
| rosmaita | i'm assuming the reason flaper87 is bummed about hte scheduling is that he wants to attend, so must be good | 14:13 |
| jokke_ | flaper87: ++ | 14:13 |
| flaper87 | rosmaita: yeah, mostly. And this is the third time this happens to me | 14:13 |
| flaper87 | :D | 14:13 |
| rosmaita | if we do video only, then co-location is not a problem | 14:14 |
| flaper87 | and you're all cool kids that I want to hangout with | 14:14 |
| rosmaita | we just dont schedule at exactly the same time | 14:14 |
| rosmaita | flaper87: :) | 14:14 |
| flaper87 | anyway, I'd assume it's already too late to make changes this time | 14:14 |
| rosmaita | and with video only, we can be more flexible about scheduling | 14:14 |
| nikhil_k | the pre-liberty mini-summit did not have much participation in vidyo or was very difficult rather | 14:15 |
| flaper87 | but lets keep it in mind for the next time | 14:15 |
| jokke_ | video has it's own focus problems, but I'm ok for that. Let's just do it for change for example UTC+3 ;) | 14:15 |
| flaper87 | glance-team>co-location | 14:15 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: and it was >=midnight here | 14:15 |
| ativelkov | jokke_ :)) nice idea | 14:15 |
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| nikhil_k | why don't we do vidyo bi-weekly? | 14:15 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: if there's a good agenda, I'd be ok | 14:16 |
| nikhil_k | I can definitely come up with one | 14:16 |
| sigmavirus24 | "I can always come up with work for my minions" -- nikhil_k probably | 14:16 |
| sigmavirus24 | ;) | 14:16 |
| sabari | lol | 14:16 |
| flaper87 | awesome, I think alternate participation is also acceptable so that'd be ok | 14:16 |
| nikhil_k | Ok, I will come up with a plan and propose it on ML with hopes of not getting push back that we are not using irc as primary means of communication | 14:16 |
| flaper87 | if it is open to everyone, I don't see the problem | 14:17 |
| flaper87 | also, we can take minutes | 14:17 |
| flaper87 | actually, we should take minutes | 14:17 |
| nikhil_k | yeah, I feel that we need cross-sub-team and cross-timezone participation every so often | 14:17 |
| flaper87 | (if it isn't logged, it ain't true) | 14:17 |
| rosmaita | we could log minutes in irc during the mtg | 14:18 |
| flaper87 | rosmaita: ++ | 14:18 |
| nikhil_k | flaper87: would you want to be a scheduling liaison if not burnt out? or may be rosmaita ? | 14:18 |
| rosmaita | do vidyo & irc at the same time | 14:18 |
| nikhil_k | co-liaison :) | 14:18 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: sure | 14:19 |
| nikhil_k | if we have <10 participants then we can record/hangout on air and publish it thus keeping up with openness principle | 14:19 |
| sigmavirus24 | as long as jokke_ doesn't mind being recorded ;) | 14:19 |
| * flaper87 goes to get vidyo working on his laptop | 14:19 | |
| sigmavirus24 | (which google probably does anyway =P | 14:19 |
| flaper87 | ) | 14:19 |
| * flaper87 just saved sigmavirus24 from a SyntaxError | 14:20 | |
| nikhil_k | can I get a quick vote here to see the possiblity of delaying the mini-summit by a week? | 14:20 |
| rosmaita | i think we can record vidyo also with >10 participants? | 14:20 |
| jokke_ | meeting is one thing, but the problem is that I just can't do it in the office ... so I'll be at best on irc on those | 14:20 |
| nikhil_k | I actually had created another column for it | 14:20 |
| sigmavirus24 | thanks flaper87. you're my hero | 14:20 |
| jokke_ | and I don't think I'm the only one with that problem | 14:20 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: lol, yeah | 14:20 |
| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: get a better firewall | 14:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | problem solved :P | 14:21 |
| nikhil_k | #startvote Would you prefer mid-cycle to be from Jul 28-30 vs Jul 21-23 ? | 14:21 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Would you prefer mid-cycle to be from Jul 28-30 vs Jul 21-23 ? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 14:21 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 14:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | #vote Yes | 14:21 |
| flaper87 | #vote Yes | 14:22 |
| sabari | #vote Yes | 14:22 |
| jokke_ | #vote probably neither works | 14:22 |
| nikhil_k | There are no gurantees and I will try my best | 14:22 |
| kragniz | #vote meh | 14:22 |
| ativelkov | no opinion from my side | 14:22 |
| mfedosin | #vote Yes | 14:22 |
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| nikhil_k | Ok, let me make the column a bit more official | 14:23 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: when do you think you'll be able to have an answer about this? | 14:23 |
| flaper87 | no preassure but the sooner the better | 14:23 |
| flaper87 | (I got another meeting/trip to arrange around those dates and I'd like to prioritize) | 14:23 |
| nikhil_k | #endvote | 14:23 |
| openstack | Voted on "Would you prefer mid-cycle to be from Jul 28-30 vs Jul 21-23 ?" Results are | 14:23 |
| nikhil_k | flaper87: I think next week | 14:23 |
| sabari | nikhil_k: Do you mean 28-30 or 29 - 31? The latter is Wed-Fri. | 14:24 |
| nikhil_k | flaper87: I will keep you or rosmaita in sync and ping if anyone if online when that conversation happens | 14:24 |
| sigmavirus24 | heh | 14:24 |
| nikhil_k | Since we say many yes for that vote, please | 14:24 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: awesome, thanks! | 14:24 |
| nikhil_k | #action add your preference about the date on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w0eI6SPCA2IrOyHiEYC2uDO3fbYGzahZRUQSva0UD3Y/edit#gid=0 | 14:24 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: This scheduling stuff is very tricky ;-) | 14:25 |
| nikhil_k | sabari: I meant 28-30 as it helps avoid flying on weekend and is preferred by many a folks | 14:25 |
| sigmavirus24 | Yeah I just have little faith that I won't be scheduled into a sprint during the midcycle and told I can't have the time to go to it | 14:26 |
| nikhil_k | s/say/saw/g | 14:26 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: are you going to try co-locating it ? | 14:26 |
| flaper87 | because if not, then I'd say we should reconsider 8-10 :P | 14:27 |
| sabari | nikhil_k: hmm, ok | 14:27 |
| * flaper87 confuses nikhil_k even more | 14:27 | |
| nikhil_k | flaper87: Actually co-locating helps from many other reasons. Lesser travel for overlaps for those who work on more than one project, easier to get budget, interest from other companies who are just joining the project, opportunity of companies to host many project etc | 14:28 |
| nikhil_k | s/from/for/g | 14:28 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: fair enough. | 14:28 |
| nikhil_k | flaper87: 8-10 would be very hard to get budget approved you see and we may end up being less than a donez hanging out in a game room or something | 14:29 |
| flaper87 | nikhil_k: game room sounds good | 14:29 |
| flaper87 | :P | 14:29 |
| flaper87 | (joking) | 14:29 |
| jokke_ | nikhil_k: I don't see anything wrong with that ;P | 14:30 |
| nikhil_k | Blacksburg it is then for the venue :P | 14:30 |
| nikhil_k | jk :-) | 14:30 |
| rosmaita | we can go bowling | 14:30 |
| nikhil_k | we've a nice game room with guitar hero | 14:30 |
| sigmavirus24 | lol | 14:31 |
| sigmavirus24 | is that place in minnesota still an option? | 14:31 |
| nikhil_k | I know sigmavirus24 is thinking about coming to Bburg now, even more than before :P | 14:31 |
| sigmavirus24 | I swear, I hear wonderful things about that place | 14:31 |
| sigmavirus24 | And I want to see it | 14:31 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: no, Nova said strict no unless there was some discussion on ML about horizon wanting to co-locate with them | 14:31 |
| sigmavirus24 | Ah okay | 14:32 |
| sigmavirus24 | Guess I'm off to join the Nova team then =P | 14:32 |
| nikhil_k | :) | 14:32 |
| nikhil_k | Hope that resolves concerns.. | 14:32 |
| nikhil_k | Moving to next one.. | 14:33 |
| nikhil_k | #topic Cross project awareness | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cross project awareness (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:33 | |
| nikhil_k | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186635/ | 14:33 |
| nikhil_k | Please provide input on the same. If we go with direct pins, there would be more pressure on the glance (project) developers to write stuff according to the requirements. | 14:33 |
| nikhil_k | That may create more hacks and add project side maintenance load | 14:34 |
| nikhil_k | vs. not going that route means more work on packaging side and harder to converge | 14:35 |
| nikhil_k | that does involve fixing bug(ish) code in the project | 14:35 |
| sigmavirus24 | hm | 14:35 |
| nikhil_k | That's it from my end.. | 14:35 |
| sigmavirus24 | So as I understood that spec, this was only for testing. The official requirements will still be ranges. This is too smooth over testing | 14:36 |
| sigmavirus24 | Which is not to say your points aren't valid. I actually agree with them, to be honest. | 14:36 |
| flaper87 | sigmavirus24: yes, that's the way I read it as well | 14:37 |
| flaper87 | and yes, nikhil_k are valid | 14:37 |
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| sigmavirus24 | On the one hand, if we get stuck with super old dependencies that are in those ranges, then yes we'll have to do a lot of stuff to smooth over differences in libraries | 14:38 |
| nikhil_k | Agreed, just for testing. Though, I kinda agree with Doug that it makes projects looks second class citizen however, with a lesser intensity and intent to push back | 14:38 |
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| nikhil_k | One thing that would have made me think a lot more if it was project wise was security impact of libraries and harder upgrades | 14:39 |
| nikhil_k | with testing that can be quarantined in other ways | 14:39 |
| nikhil_k | unless there are deployments that don't agree with such approch | 14:40 |
| nikhil_k | Ok, we can hope to get more feedback on the review | 14:41 |
| sigmavirus24 | Yeah | 14:41 |
| nikhil_k | Moving on.. | 14:41 |
| sigmavirus24 | I'll try to give some feedback tonight | 14:41 |
| nikhil_k | Thanks! | 14:41 |
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| nikhil_k | #topic Refactor: HTTP Store onto requests | 14:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Refactor: HTTP Store onto requests (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:41 | |
| nikhil_k | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189537/4 | 14:42 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: all yours | 14:42 |
| flaper87 | the title sounds amazing already | 14:42 |
| sigmavirus24 | oh right | 14:42 |
| sigmavirus24 | I forgot that was on the agenda | 14:42 |
| nikhil_k | :) | 14:42 |
| sigmavirus24 | tl;dr I started refactoring this before the summit but failed to write a spec until the other night | 14:42 |
| sigmavirus24 | I need to update it some, but the updates are mainly around the threat model which I'm using as reasoning for the refactor | 14:43 |
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| sigmavirus24 | That said, I'm talking about adding 2 new config options which I want everyone's input on | 14:43 |
| sigmavirus24 | And if anyone can think of other config problems we might run into using something that isn't as lazy as httplib, they should provide feedback | 14:43 |
| sigmavirus24 | There's a patch up without the config options | 14:43 |
| sigmavirus24 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/168507/ | 14:44 |
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| sigmavirus24 | I can rebase it sometime this week and y'all can test it out if you're using an HTTP store and give feedback | 14:44 |
| sigmavirus24 | It should be functionally equivalent (except that it breaks if there's a verification error) | 14:44 |
| nikhil_k | hmm, we may have a use isecure conn kinda flag in glance | 14:44 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: that's one of the config options | 14:44 |
| sigmavirus24 | I'd rather glance not pass insecure=False all the time, that defeats the purpose of the refactor | 14:44 |
| flaper87 | sigmavirus24: I'm good with this spec, FWIW | 14:45 |
| sabari | sigmavirus24: and sorry I haven't reviewed the spec yet :) thought I reviewed your code long back :) | 14:45 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: yeah, +1 on glance not passing | 14:45 |
| sabari | though* | 14:45 |
| sigmavirus24 | I'll also be writing a spec to make the checksum configurable | 14:45 |
| nikhil_k | ooh | 14:45 |
| sigmavirus24 | sabari: yes you did. Your reviews were excellent | 14:45 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: yeah | 14:45 |
| sigmavirus24 | I'm that guy this cycle | 14:45 |
| nikhil_k | that's a tricky one | 14:45 |
| nikhil_k | ok | 14:45 |
| nikhil_k | :D | 14:46 |
| sigmavirus24 | tricky siggy | 14:46 |
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| nikhil_k | rosmaita: you know any api/filtering constraints for configurable checksum? | 14:46 |
| jokke_ | sigmavirus24: I think that insecurity needs to be the default 'though | 14:46 |
| nikhil_k | and may be brianna has more input there | 14:46 |
| sabari | sigmavirus24: should the spec also cover VMware driver since you started that refactor too ? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/168540/3 | 14:47 |
| rosmaita | nikhil_k: not aware of any, except the schema says 32 maxlength string, description says md5 hash | 14:48 |
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| sigmavirus24 | sabari: I'm thinking of writing a separate spec for that | 14:48 |
| sigmavirus24 | but we could | 14:48 |
| sigmavirus24 | rosmaita: right | 14:48 |
| nikhil_k | yeah, we would need to document/educate if that becomes consifugrable! | 14:48 |
| sigmavirus24 | jokke_: please comment on the review | 14:49 |
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| nikhil_k | rosmaita: but if not api constraints, then I guess it shouldn't take us more than one cycle.. | 14:49 |
| sabari | sigmavirus24: hmm, thanks. | 14:49 |
| sigmavirus24 | the database does validate the length of the checksum and inessa was adding validation to the API about it | 14:49 |
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| sigmavirus24 | The reason we need to make the checksum configurable is so people stop -1'ing bpoulos' spec | 14:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | And they're right that this needs to be done, but wrong about the order of operations relative to bpoulos' spec | 14:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | Anyway, that's all I have | 14:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 14:50 |
| nikhil_k | umm | 14:50 |
| nikhil_k | #topic Open Discussion | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Glance)" | 14:51 | |
| nikhil_k | we can continue or discuss something else.. | 14:51 |
| nikhil_k | I was gunna ask if we should officially register a Drivers' meeting? | 14:51 |
| nikhil_k | so that feedback can be synchronously and async-ly possible | 14:52 |
| nikhil_k | Attendance would not be mandatory | 14:52 |
| nikhil_k | but would be good/great for awareness | 14:52 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 14:52 |
| sigmavirus24 | I would attend | 14:52 |
| nikhil_k | 30 mins? | 14:52 |
| nikhil_k | 45 or 60, or more? | 14:53 |
| flaper87 | I'd like to bring this spec to your attention: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188388/ | 14:53 |
| sigmavirus24 | should probably take it to the ML to decide. I think we're missing drivers from this meeting | 14:53 |
| nikhil_k | <open to all> | 14:53 |
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| flaper87 | I need to update it with latests discussions I had with sabari but early comments are appreciated | 14:53 |
| sigmavirus24 | I would say between 30 and 45 minutes would be sufficient | 14:53 |
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| rosmaita | maybe start with 30 and see if we need more? | 14:54 |
| rosmaita | nikhil_k: only v2 api constraint on checksum is that you can use it to filter an image list | 14:55 |
| nikhil_k | ok, I will send email to ML and get more feedback. As this would be a place for open feedback and track progress and do prioritization outside of sprints like mid-cycle | 14:55 |
| nikhil_k | rosmaita: awesome, thanks! | 14:55 |
| nikhil_k | We can decide on dates/time there | 14:56 |
| nikhil_k | weekly would be nice but may be bi-weekly if needed | 14:56 |
| nikhil_k | (or not needed) | 14:56 |
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| nikhil_k | Do we need more active cores? We do need a policy and cleanup of the core-list soon-ish possibly before mid-cycle. May be we can chat about it next weekly mtg.. | 14:58 |
| nikhil_k | If nothing else .. | 14:59 |
| nikhil_k | Thanks all! | 14:59 |
| rosmaita | ending 33 sec early | 14:59 |
| nikhil_k | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 11 14:59:47 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-06-11-14.00.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-06-11-14.00.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-06-11-14.00.log.html | 14:59 |
| nikhil_k | TravT_: hi, just in time | 14:59 |
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| TravT_ | Hey nikhil_K | 15:00 |
| nikhil_k | #startmeeting openstack-search | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 11 15:00:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is nikhil_k. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-search)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_search' | 15:00 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 15:00 |
| nikhil_k | TravT_: you avaliable to chair? | 15:00 |
| nikhil_k | I think I can use the #chair option to reassign that | 15:00 |
| nikhil_k | Until we hear from him | 15:01 |
| TravT_ | i am, but if you want to run it today, go ahead! | 15:01 |
| nikhil_k | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/search-team-meeting-agenda | 15:01 |
| nikhil_k | #chair TravT_ | 15:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: TravT_ nikhil_k | 15:01 |
| *** zehicle_IRL has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 15:01 | |
| nikhil_k | o/ | 15:01 |
| *** ativelkov has left #openstack-meeting-4 | 15:01 | |
| nikhil_k | TravT_: feel free to take over | 15:01 |
| TravT_ | in the past, we used meeting name of openstack search | 15:01 |
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| TravT_ | will the meeting bot still pick it up regardless of name? | 15:02 |
| nikhil_k | TravT_: oops | 15:02 |
| TravT_ | it does it based on time and room, right? | 15:02 |
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| nikhil_k | TravT_: Ah I read the _ incorrectly over here http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/ | 15:02 |
| TravT_ | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/ | 15:02 |
| TravT_ | yeah, i shouldn't have used the space... | 15:03 |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 15:03 | |
| TravT_ | maybe we should end it and start it again just in case? | 15:03 |
| nikhil_k | sure | 15:03 |
| nikhil_k | #endmeeting | 15:03 |
| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 11 15:03:49 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.00.html | 15:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.00.txt | 15:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.00.log.html | 15:03 |
| sigmavirus24 | sorry, spaced out on the glance meeting | 15:03 |
| nikhil_k | #startmeeting openstack search | 15:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 11 15:04:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is nikhil_k. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack search)" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_search' | 15:04 |
| *** sjmc7 has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 15:04 | |
| nikhil_k | #chair TravT_ | 15:04 |
| openstack | Current chairs: TravT_ nikhil_k | 15:04 |
| *** bpoulos has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 15:04 | |
| *** bpoulos has left #openstack-meeting-4 | 15:04 | |
| nikhil_k | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/search-team-meeting-agenda | 15:04 |
| rosmaita | o/ (again) | 15:04 |
| nikhil_k | o/ | 15:04 |
| TravT_ | i guess we can see what happened in the logs. | 15:04 |
| TravT_ | fun test | 15:04 |
| TravT_ | good morning, anyway | 15:04 |
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| sjmc7 | morning! | 15:04 |
| nikhil_k | It went fine | 15:05 |
| nikhil_k | logs still there http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.00.html | 15:05 |
| TravT_ | ok, cool. | 15:05 |
| sigmavirus24 | either one works | 15:05 |
| sigmavirus24 | logs are live updating here too: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.04.log.txt | 15:06 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 15:06 |
| nikhil_k | Latest ones (this mtg logs) http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.04.log.txt | 15:06 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: ^5 | 15:06 |
| TravT_ | cool | 15:06 |
| TravT_ | #topic We have a project! | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "We have a project! (Meeting topic: openstack search)" | 15:06 | |
| sjmc7 | yay! | 15:06 |
| TravT_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188014/ | 15:06 |
| nikhil_k | \o\ \o/ /o/ | 15:07 |
| TravT_ | So, virtual cheers to everybody! | 15:07 |
| nikhil_k | (with a bit of drama of course) | 15:07 |
| TravT_ | you mean the gate failing.... | 15:07 |
| TravT_ | :) | 15:07 |
| nikhil_k | yeah | 15:08 |
| *** blahRus has joined #openstack-meeting-4 | 15:08 | |
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| sigmavirus24 | lol | 15:08 |
| sigmavirus24 | that was lifeless' fault | 15:08 |
| sigmavirus24 | He's always trying to cause drama =P | 15:08 |
| sigmavirus24 | Breaking gates and whatnot | 15:08 |
| TravT_ | lol | 15:08 |
| TravT_ | #topic OpenStack repo import status (kragniz) | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack repo import status (kragniz) (Meeting topic: openstack search)" | 15:09 | |
| nikhil_k | I remember the dialogue from Batman Begins .. why do we fall Mr. Bruce? | 15:09 |
| TravT_ | kragniz are you around today? | 15:09 |
| kragniz | hey | 15:09 |
| kragniz | ready to go (almost) | 15:10 |
| kragniz | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190278/4 | 15:10 |
| sigmavirus24 | do or do not, there is no almost | 15:10 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 15:10 |
| TravT_ | looks like just waiting for checks to pass? | 15:10 |
| kragniz | and some +2s from people | 15:11 |
| sigmavirus24 | so | 15:11 |
| sigmavirus24 | do we want python3.4 to be a non-voting job for searchlight? | 15:11 |
| sjmc7 | yeah, let's do it from the start | 15:12 |
| * sigmavirus24 is just asking since it was mentioned yesterday | 15:12 | |
| TravT_ | sigmavirus24: i think we do. | 15:12 |
| * sigmavirus24 is not trying to make Louis' job harder | 15:12 | |
| sjmc7 | we'll have to do it sometime and i don't want to have to go and fix a bunch of stuff later | 15:12 |
| kragniz | sjmc7: do you know if the py34 job currently runs? | 15:12 |
| sigmavirus24 | s/not//g | 15:12 |
| sigmavirus24 | kragniz: does not | 15:12 |
| sigmavirus24 | -python-jobs is only python2 | 15:12 |
| nikhil_k | and we just need 27 | 15:12 |
| nikhil_k | ? | 15:12 |
| TravT_ | in the cross project meeting, there was a lot of discussion on moving to py 34. | 15:13 |
| kragniz | sigmavirus24: I mean if you do to -e py34, does it do horrible things | 15:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | you have to add check:\n - gate-searchlight--python34 | 15:13 |
| kragniz | tox -e | 15:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | kragniz: oh yeah | 15:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | no clue | 15:13 |
| sjmc7 | there ARE non-voting python 3 jobs though | 15:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | right | 15:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | if we have an express goal of being able to run on 3.4 then we should add it | 15:13 |
| kragniz | we can add it when we have something that runs (okayishly) | 15:13 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: experimental: ,I think vs. check: | 15:13 |
| sigmavirus24 | if it's just going to be a "nice to have" for liberty, then I say no | 15:13 |
| kragniz | I think we should have it from the start | 15:13 |
| sjmc7 | i do too | 15:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: the way I did it for bandit was adding it to check and defining it as non-voting | 15:14 |
| sjmc7 | while the test suite is relatively small | 15:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | yeah the codebase is also small | 15:14 |
| sjmc7 | make it non voting until it passes | 15:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | so it should be easy to work on | 15:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | then make it voting to annoy people | 15:14 |
| sigmavirus24 | ;) | 15:14 |
| TravT_ | +1 ^ | 15:14 |
| kragniz | we're going to have to port anyway, so we should keep the amount of legacy stuff small from the start | 15:14 |
| sjmc7 | yeah... i've been on projects that have ported to 3, it's a real pain once you have significant code | 15:14 |
| kragniz | yup | 15:14 |
| TravT_ | anybody have that link handy that I shared in the room yesterday? | 15:15 |
| nikhil_k | given 34 is a real thing now | 15:15 |
| kragniz | I think we should aim for a voting job in liberty, anyway | 15:15 |
| nikhil_k | unless 33 last year | 15:15 |
| TravT_ | just wanted to link it from here | 15:15 |
| nikhil_k | unlike* | 15:15 |
| kragniz | but that can come later, with a non-voting job first | 15:15 |
| nikhil_k | please no | 15:15 |
| nikhil_k | who deploys 34!? | 15:15 |
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| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: I will if I have to | 15:16 |
| nikhil_k | +1 on non-voting but voting should be only in-use production ready | 15:16 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: I think you overestimate how hard it is to get a code-base to be production ready on Python 3 | 15:16 |
| nikhil_k | otherwise patches will have tendency to get stuck that may break stuff in real world | 15:16 |
| sigmavirus24 | ^ can you expound on this? | 15:16 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: I am just saying.. | 15:17 |
| nikhil_k | if no one is using py34 in real world, it does not make sense to mark the job voting | 15:17 |
| kragniz | nikhil_k: but who deploys searchlight? | 15:17 |
| nikhil_k | we can continue to monitor it as responsible developers | 15:17 |
| kragniz | we're a new project, so we can be more cutting-edge | 15:18 |
| nikhil_k | I hope that was a joke | 15:18 |
| kragniz | anyway, we can talk about this later in the cycle | 15:18 |
| TravT_ | FYI on some discussion on py 3 yesterday: #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-06-09-21.01.log.html#l-123 | 15:18 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: IMO, if we don't gate on Python 3, no one will fix their broken patches unless we block them until they do | 15:18 |
| sigmavirus24 | That shouldn't be the reviewer's job, that should be the gate's job | 15:18 |
| sigmavirus24 | And for all the gloom and doom that everyone predicts about Python 3, I can speak from years of experience, that it isn't that bad | 15:19 |
| sigmavirus24 | And it's constantly getting a lot better | 15:19 |
| *** singlethink has quit IRC | 15:19 | |
| sigmavirus24 | Many of the biggest libraries in use are production ready for Python 3 | 15:19 |
| nikhil_k | It's just about porting your N K servers to use py34 after you've just spent months porting from py26->py27 | 15:20 |
| sigmavirus24 | That will only happen when openstack drops 2.7 | 15:20 |
| nikhil_k | But I don't want to hold back the meeting | 15:20 |
| * nikhil_k shuts up | 15:20 | |
| sigmavirus24 | And in many cases, if they're using debian or ubuntu, they wont' have a choice | 15:20 |
| sigmavirus24 | Python 3 is becoming the default real soon | 15:20 |
| sigmavirus24 | Red Hat will be left supporting 2.x customers and that's what they're good at | 15:20 |
| * sigmavirus24 shuts up | 15:20 | |
| TravT_ | i think this is a good discussion. My vote is that we enable it as a non-voting job. | 15:21 |
| TravT_ | and revisit making it voting | 15:21 |
| kragniz | it should certainly be a non-voting job at first | 15:21 |
| kragniz | TravT_: +1 | 15:21 |
| sjmc7 | aye | 15:21 |
| david-lyle | +1 | 15:21 |
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| TravT_ | so kragniz, i guess you should go ahead and add it to the patch. | 15:21 |
| * sigmavirus24 is always happy to discuss Python 3 outside of meetings | 15:22 | |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 15:22 |
| kragniz | yeah, I guess so | 15:22 |
| TravT_ | next up | 15:23 |
| TravT_ | #topic Brainstorming Session | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Brainstorming Session (Meeting topic: openstack search)" | 15:23 | |
| TravT_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-searchlight-brainstorming | 15:23 |
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| TravT_ | thank you everybody that attended | 15:23 |
| TravT_ | i thought it was a very useful session! | 15:23 |
| nikhil_k | +1 | 15:24 |
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| TravT_ | there were a few actions out of it. | 15:24 |
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| TravT_ | one was the discussion we just had with kragniz^ | 15:24 |
| rosmaita | TravT_: an interesting point came up in today's glance meeting, viz., that we could record minutes of the meeting into the logged openstack-serach channel | 15:25 |
| rosmaita | TravT_: live, during the meeting, i mean | 15:25 |
| TravT_ | rosmaita, you mean as a supplement to the etherpad? | 15:25 |
| rosmaita | yes | 15:26 |
| TravT_ | seems like a pretty good idea. | 15:26 |
| nikhil_k | yeah, I wanted to get reasoning behind that if we have time | 15:26 |
| TravT_ | sure, go ahead | 15:26 |
| nikhil_k | Any specific reason we prefer openstack logs over etherpad? | 15:26 |
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| nikhil_k | Or can we just link a etherpad during the meeting? Not sure what helps.. We may need someone dedicated notes taker for irc logs.. | 15:27 |
| nikhil_k | (seems like folks who want it are not here) | 15:28 |
| rosmaita | etherpad is ephemeral by nature | 15:28 |
| rosmaita | and not discoverable | 15:28 |
| sigmavirus24 | ^^ | 15:28 |
| sigmavirus24 | logs are not ephemeral | 15:28 |
| sigmavirus24 | also, they're immutable | 15:29 |
| sigmavirus24 | etherpads can supplement the logs, but can't exactly replace them | 15:29 |
| nikhil_k | true, otoh more collaboratiev and async (good for offline feedback etc) | 15:29 |
| rosmaita | sigmavirus24: ty, that's what i was trying to say | 15:29 |
| sigmavirus24 | yep | 15:29 |
| nikhil_k | gotcha | 15:29 |
| nikhil_k | thanks | 15:29 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: I don't think this should be a discussion of 1 or the other | 15:29 |
| sigmavirus24 | I think having both is really good | 15:29 |
| rosmaita | yes, let's use all the tools! | 15:29 |
| nikhil_k | ok, as long someone DOES IT | 15:30 |
| sigmavirus24 | I wouldn't have been able to participate yesterday (in any capacity) without an etherpad | 15:30 |
| rosmaita | nikhil_k: i guess i can volunteer as minute-taker | 15:30 |
| rosmaita | (it will force me to pay attention) | 15:30 |
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| nikhil_k | heh, thanks! | 15:30 |
| rosmaita | TravT_: what do you think? | 15:30 |
| sigmavirus24 | rosmaita: thanks for not making me volunteer ;) | 15:30 |
| * nikhil_k too | 15:30 | |
| TravT_ | i'm happy for you to take notes rosmaita. :P | 15:30 |
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| rosmaita | ok, put me down as minutes-taker for the out-of-normal-schedule meetings | 15:31 |
| TravT_ | thanks, rosmaita! | 15:31 |
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| TravT_ | i guess we can ask for volunteers next time we have such a thing | 15:31 |
| nikhil_k | +1 | 15:32 |
| TravT_ | so another action from the meeting was getting #openstack-searchlight logged | 15:32 |
| TravT_ | kragniz, david-lyle, is that done? | 15:32 |
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| kragniz | TravT_: I think that's done | 15:32 |
| david-lyle | I got the channel added this morning | 15:32 |
| nikhil_k | I didn't want to put rosmaita in that position either and was just trying to get more feedback and reduce my multi-tasking responsiblity | 15:32 |
| kragniz | I think the patch merged | 15:32 |
| sigmavirus24 | no bots in there | 15:32 |
| david-lyle | so the log should start | 15:32 |
| TravT_ | ok, thanks! | 15:33 |
| rosmaita | cool, having the channel logged is a dependency for minutes! | 15:33 |
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| TravT_ | so this means everybody should be on good behavior in there now! | 15:33 |
| nikhil_k | not yet on the channel logs | 15:33 |
| david-lyle | if a log doesn't appear soon, I'll dig into why | 15:33 |
| TravT_ | thanks david-lyle | 15:33 |
| TravT_ | i sent a message back to the attorney re: trademark. | 15:34 |
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| TravT_ | no response | 15:34 |
| david-lyle | looks like it's written once a day | 15:34 |
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| * nikhil_k doesn't mind enjoying the name until someone pushes back | 15:34 | |
| TravT_ | yeah, i like it | 15:35 |
| kragniz | david-lyle: I think I know why | 15:35 |
| sigmavirus24 | david-lyle: the logs are live updated =P | 15:35 |
| nikhil_k | david-lyle: oh, you mean written to create one? | 15:35 |
| kragniz | I'll write a patch | 15:35 |
| david-lyle | kragniz: ok thanks | 15:35 |
| kragniz | (needs a system-config change) | 15:36 |
| TravT_ | ok, the next thing is we agreed that people should start opening blueprints for the areas they are working on which brings us to | 15:36 |
| TravT_ | #topic launchpad | 15:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad (Meeting topic: openstack search)" | 15:36 | |
| TravT_ | OpenStack release management tracked based on the blueprints closed: http://status.openstack.org/release/ | 15:36 |
| david-lyle | oh yeah, I always forget about system-config and hard coded lists | 15:36 |
| TravT_ | in order for us to show up on the release management board, we do need blueprints | 15:37 |
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| TravT_ | in previous discussions, we decided that we will use as lightweight as possible | 15:38 |
| david-lyle | eavesdrop.pp | 15:38 |
| TravT_ | but there is a template that you can look at filling out. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/searchlight/+spec/searchlight-blueprint-template | 15:38 |
| TravT_ | mainly, just share some information. if we need more we'll ask for it. | 15:38 |
| nikhil_k | pick and choose, I guess | 15:38 |
| TravT_ | for API discussions and changes, we do want that to be more stringent | 15:39 |
| sjmc7 | this is one area where a specs repo is nice, it formalizes that "you need to provide more info" aspect | 15:39 |
| nikhil_k | +1 | 15:39 |
| sjmc7 | for now though, perhaps we're small enough that we can do it more informally? | 15:39 |
| sjmc7 | so if my blueprint's too scanty, tell me in IRC and i'll fix it | 15:39 |
| nikhil_k | Also, specs.openstack.org links can be a part of the release notes for that cycle | 15:40 |
| sigmavirus24 | sjmc7: you betcha | 15:40 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 15:40 |
| sjmc7 | i think this template's good to read while you're writing them though | 15:40 |
| nikhil_k | BP can be changed rather easily and thus may contain bad data | 15:40 |
| TravT_ | what about creating docs in our docs directory? | 15:41 |
| TravT_ | so, if you are working on nova plugin, you will create a doc on the nova plugin | 15:41 |
| sjmc7 | so my vote's not to be crazy formal about it, but feel free to demand more information from people if BP's aren't clear enough | 15:41 |
| TravT_ | it is rst. it can be reviewed for more info. | 15:41 |
| sjmc7 | that won't work for all BPs | 15:42 |
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| sjmc7 | i guess ultimately i don't really mind as long as it's clear what the intent is | 15:42 |
| nikhil_k | +1 on small BPs and good info on API | 15:42 |
| TravT_ | my belief is this. we need documentation. | 15:42 |
| TravT_ | whether it specs or in our docs section of our repo | 15:43 |
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| sjmc7 | since we have to do BPs for project purposes, i'd vote for as much info in there as is useful to implement and then docutmation as part of the implementation | 15:43 |
| nikhil_k | +1 docs section | 15:43 |
| * rosmaita has not talked to docs team yet, is writing email now | 15:43 | |
| TravT_ | blueprints usually don't work so well when it gets complicated, because they don't have proper review tools | 15:43 |
| nikhil_k | and history/timelogs isn't preserved :P | 15:44 |
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| nikhil_k | #action nikhil: write BPs for his assigned tasks | 15:45 |
| TravT_ | ok, well, for now, please just create your blueprint | 15:45 |
| TravT_ | so we have something to show... | 15:46 |
| TravT_ | need to move on. | 15:46 |
| TravT_ | #topic midcycle meetup | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "midcycle meetup (Meeting topic: openstack search)" | 15:46 | |
| TravT_ | probably nikhil_k already covered this with glance | 15:46 |
| nikhil_k | TravT_: yeah, and received some feedback | 15:47 |
| sjmc7 | i *think* i have clearance to travel | 15:47 |
| TravT_ | do you want to repeat yourself nikhil_k | 15:47 |
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| nikhil_k | sure | 15:47 |
| * nikhil_k will try to be quick | 15:47 | |
| nikhil_k | People (and a few of those in specific) were a little worried that mid-cycles are harder to schedule and get travel approved | 15:48 |
| rosmaita | how about http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2015/glance.2015-06-11-14.00.log.html | 15:48 |
| nikhil_k | So there were 2 requests | 15:48 |
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| nikhil_k | 1. Look at the possiblity of preferring the team (so that people from that team can attend) -- that meaning specific dates, venue etc | 15:49 |
| nikhil_k | 2. Look at the possiblity of Video conf. only mid-cycle (or ask Foundation to schedule these events) | 15:49 |
| nikhil_k | did I get your concern right rosmaita ? | 15:50 |
| nikhil_k | Basically, I made no promises to change in schedule | 15:50 |
| nikhil_k | however, wanted to consider the possiblity of mid-cycle during Jul 28-30 preferred over Jul 21-23. And many online participants voted yes | 15:50 |
| nikhil_k | I also added the column in #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w0eI6SPCA2IrOyHiEYC2uDO3fbYGzahZRUQSva0UD3Y/edit#gid=0 for respective date range | 15:51 |
| rosmaita | my concern is just that these mid-cycle meetings are sufficiently important, and scheduling is so difficult, that the foundation should give administrative assistant support to help scheduling | 15:51 |
| rosmaita | the chosen week conflicts with europython conf | 15:51 |
| david-lyle | rosmaita: the foundation wants midcycles to go away | 15:51 |
| david-lyle | so I doubt support is an option | 15:51 |
| nikhil_k | yep | 15:51 |
| david-lyle | this is the reason for all the changes to the summit structure | 15:52 |
| david-lyle | to attempt to remove the perceived need for more f2f meetings | 15:52 |
| TravT_ | nikhil_k, it doesn't look like anybody really updated the https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w0eI6SPCA2IrOyHiEYC2uDO3fbYGzahZRUQSva0UD3Y/edit#gid=0 | 15:52 |
| nikhil_k | yeah | 15:52 |
| rosmaita | hmmm ... whatever happend to bottom-up governance? | 15:52 |
| TravT_ | are people supposed to go vote on that other week now? | 15:52 |
| david-lyle | companies at the top don't like them | 15:52 |
| david-lyle | $$$ | 15:53 |
| rosmaita | david-lyle: that is a problem | 15:53 |
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| rosmaita | we just have to stop having summits in exotic locales | 15:53 |
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| nikhil_k | TravT_: only if we think it's feasible. The only thing I mentioned is if we decide to consider a different date then some others may be online to provide more feedback | 15:54 |
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| nikhil_k | rosmaita: expensive locale ? | 15:54 |
| TravT_ | #action everybody here, go ahead and indicate in the spreadsheet if you can attend the 28 - 30th on the spreadsheet | 15:55 |
| TravT_ | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w0eI6SPCA2IrOyHiEYC2uDO3fbYGzahZRUQSva0UD3Y/edit#gid=0 | 15:55 |
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| rosmaita | hong-kong, paris, tokyo ... would be way cheaper in florida during august | 15:55 |
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| sjmc7 | i am NOT going to florida in august | 15:55 |
| sjmc7 | the horror! | 15:55 |
| rosmaita | sjmc7: it would be cheap! | 15:55 |
| TravT_ | they could probably do two meetups in north dakota for the price of a single paris | 15:55 |
| kragniz | sjmc7: +1 to that! | 15:55 |
| sjmc7 | there's a reaosn it's cheap! i would go to dakota! | 15:56 |
| rosmaita | dakota during february | 15:56 |
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| nikhil_k | Foundation needs adoption across the globe, I think | 15:56 |
| TravT_ | ok, so for now... the plan is still july 21-23 | 15:56 |
| nikhil_k | having in ND might not interest many | 15:56 |
| TravT_ | nikhil? | 15:57 |
| rosmaita | nikhil_k: there must be a european equivalent of north dakota | 15:57 |
| nikhil_k | TravT_: yes | 15:57 |
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| TravT_ | ok, we're nearly out of time. | 15:57 |
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| TravT_ | so kragniz, i guess we defer on client for another week | 15:57 |
| sigmavirus24 | rosmaita: that would be cheap for US people | 15:57 |
| sigmavirus24 | ;) | 15:58 |
| TravT_ | although there was some discussion yesterday on it. | 15:58 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: I'd go to the dakotas ;) | 15:58 |
| nikhil_k | sigmavirus24: if you are there, then so am I :) | 15:58 |
| * sigmavirus24 likes cold weather | 15:58 | |
| sigmavirus24 | And I have all of last year's vacation time + this year's | 15:58 |
| TravT_ | want to mention, i'll be out June 16th - 24th | 15:58 |
| sigmavirus24 | so might as well spend it on midcycles | 15:58 |
| sigmavirus24 | TravT_: enjoy yourself | 15:59 |
| TravT_ | #topic open discussion | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: openstack search)" | 15:59 | |
| TravT_ | since we already were | 15:59 |
| TravT_ | any other vacations in the next week or two we should know about? | 15:59 |
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| rosmaita | i will be gone june 24-july 8 | 15:59 |
| sigmavirus24 | unlikely I'll be able to take a vacation in the next 3 weeks | 16:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | if I can find one after that I'll let you all know | 16:00 |
| * TravT_ pictures sigmavirus24 being chained to desk. | 16:00 | |
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| TravT_ | i guess we're out of time. | 16:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | more or less | 16:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 16:00 |
| TravT_ | thanks everybody | 16:00 |
| nikhil_k | Thanks! | 16:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | htanks travis | 16:00 |
| kragniz | TravT_: yeah | 16:00 |
| TravT_ | #end meeting | 16:00 |
| TravT_ | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 11 16:01:00 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.04.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.04.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_search/2015/openstack_search.2015-06-11-15.04.log.html | 16:01 |
| *** rosmaita has left #openstack-meeting-4 | 16:01 | |
| sigmavirus24 | oh look my next meeting is in the same room! | 16:01 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 16:01 |
| nikhil_k | ansible this week? | 16:01 |
| sigmavirus24 | yep | 16:01 |
| sigmavirus24 | e'ry week | 16:01 |
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| nikhil_k | ok, I will attend wg | 16:01 |
| sigmavirus24 | which wg? | 16:01 |
| nikhil_k | huh | 16:01 |
| nikhil_k | apiwg | 16:01 |
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| sigmavirus24 | that was 0000 UTC today | 16:01 |
| sigmavirus24 | aka last night for US people | 16:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | miguelgrinberg: was anyone there? | 16:02 |
| nikhil_k | alternate week? | 16:02 |
| stevelle | yes | 16:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | nikhil_k: yes | 16:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | next week it'll be at this time in meeting-3 | 16:02 |
| cloudnull | hello | 16:02 |
| sigmavirus24 | hello cloudnull | 16:02 |
| nikhil_k | ah | 16:02 |
| cloudnull | #startmeeting | 16:02 |
| d34dh0r53 | o/ | 16:02 |
| openstack | cloudnull: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 16:02 |
| d34dh0r53 | b3rnard0 bot fail | 16:03 |
| b3rnard0 | lol | 16:03 |
| sigmavirus24 | needs #startmeeting openstack ansible or wahtever | 16:03 |
| cloudnull | this is why we need an adult | 16:03 |
| sigmavirus24 | b3rnard0: how do you adult? | 16:03 |
| sigmavirus24 | b3rnard0: plz | 16:03 |
| cloudnull | #startmeeting OpenStack Ansible Meeting | 16:03 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 11 16:03:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is cloudnull. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| b3rnard0 | oh my, ms outlook what? | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_ansible_meeting' | 16:03 |
| cloudnull | boom suck it b3rnard0 | 16:03 |
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| odyssey4me | o/ | 16:03 |
| d34dh0r53 | lol | 16:03 |
| rromans | ... | 16:03 |
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| cloudnull | #topic Agenda & rollcall | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda & rollcall (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:04 | |
| b3rnard0 | i be here | 16:04 |
| stevelle | howdy | 16:04 |
| cloudnull | #kick b3rnard0 | 16:04 |
| odyssey4me | \o | 16:04 |
| sigmavirus24 | o/ | 16:04 |
| sigmavirus24 | \o/ | 16:04 |
| d34dh0r53 | o\ | 16:04 |
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| Sam-I-Am | moo. | 16:05 |
| palendae | o/ | 16:05 |
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| jwagner | o/ | 16:06 |
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| cloudnull | so lets get started | 16:07 |
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| cloudnull | #topic To BigTent or not to BigTent that is the question? | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "To BigTent or not to BigTent that is the question? (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:07 | |
| cloudnull | so we have an etherpad going talking about this | 16:08 |
| cloudnull | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osad-openstack-naming | 16:08 |
| cloudnull | I'd like for people to chime in here regarding the move | 16:08 |
| cloudnull | and if there are any glaring things that we need to take care of before we apply, if we agree that we should apply. | 16:09 |
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| odyssey4me | cloudnull do we have any idea from ansible regarding whether we're allowed to use their name? | 16:09 |
| cloudnull | no. | 16:10 |
| cloudnull | but when we send the request out to the ML we'll cc them to get them on the record | 16:10 |
| cloudnull | but pulling from prior art it we'll likely need to change it | 16:10 |
| odyssey4me | ok cool - then I think we should try for 'openstack-ansible' first | 16:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | doesnt puppet use puppet? | 16:11 |
| sigmavirus24 | Sam-I-Am: puppet-openstack | 16:11 |
| sigmavirus24 | I think | 16:11 |
| sigmavirus24 | or they used to | 16:11 |
| palendae | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061712.html | 16:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems like having the name of the deployment system makes sense | 16:11 |
| odyssey4me | ansible doesn't seem to be sticky about the trademark - almost every role I find on github uses 'ansible-' in the name | 16:11 |
| palendae | Sam-I-Am: It does, so long as we don't have TM issues | 16:11 |
| palendae | odyssey4me: Yeah, I think ansible *wants* the name there | 16:12 |
| cloudnull | yes, but the official project name is marionette or something similar | 16:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | guess it boils down to ansible's legal, and hoping they aren't dense. | 16:12 |
| palendae | Yeah, that email makes it sound like Puppet, Inc was the issue, not Openstack | 16:13 |
| palendae | But it's worth taking into consideration, and working with Ansible, Inc on | 16:13 |
| palendae | We don't have a rep from there here, do we? Would be nice if Greg could make some of these meetings | 16:13 |
| *** Bjoern__ is now known as BjoernT | 16:14 | |
| Sam-I-Am | alternatives would be something like what puppet did... a name that is related to puppet. ansible has a few, but most of them arent easy to spell. | 16:14 |
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| odyssey4me | Sam-I-Am +1, but it's hard to find something like that - I like the idea of the sci-fi theme, but we've yet to find a good name | 16:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | it'd take some good digging. i'd call up the sci-fi oracle, karin :) | 16:16 |
| cloudnull | so moving into that space. | 16:16 |
| cloudnull | #topic BigTent project code name | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BigTent project code name (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:16 | |
| palendae | odyssey4me: Just cause we haven't yet doesn't mean we won't :p | 16:16 |
| cloudnull | if we rename, i'd like a list in the etherpad which we can +1 / -1 and then move forward by EOW . | 16:16 |
| palendae | Sounds reasonable to me | 16:17 |
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| cloudnull | so do we have any issues with the move to big tent ? | 16:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | as long as its air-conditioned | 16:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | and there's some docs now | 16:20 |
| cloudnull | just need some more ascii diagrams | 16:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | ha nooooo | 16:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | just like we need more OVS | 16:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | fair trade | 16:21 |
| palendae | I am +1 on big tent | 16:22 |
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| odyssey4me | me too +1 | 16:23 |
| odyssey4me | do we deal with the RAX tech debt before-hand? we'll have to move those branches I guess? | 16:23 |
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| * gregdek hullos | 16:24 | |
| gregdek | I hear you've got some naming considerations, hm? | 16:24 |
| cloudnull | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osad-openstack-naming | 16:24 |
| * gregdek is the Ansible guy | 16:24 | |
| cloudnull | gregdek: for prez | 16:24 |
| cloudnull | :) | 16:24 |
| gregdek | Oh, no. | 16:25 |
| gregdek | No, I don't do elected governance. ;) | 16:25 |
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| cloudnull | odyssey4me: ideally we'd keep osad in stackforge and move master / kilo forward . | 16:25 |
| sigmavirus24 | +1 here on big tent | 16:25 |
| gregdek | Gimme a sec to read over the etherpad and I'll comment if I have any. | 16:25 |
| sigmavirus24 | welcome gregdek | 16:25 |
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| gregdek | cowstack would be pretty awesome, I gotta say. :) | 16:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, i like cows. | 16:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | they're trendy too | 16:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | although that theory didn't work for gateway computer | 16:28 |
| d34dh0r53 | moo.stack | 16:28 |
| palendae | Sam-I-Am: Hey, they're still around! | 16:28 |
| palendae | OpenMoo | 16:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | i hear the nebula name might be available | 16:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats sciency, right? | 16:29 |
| gregdek | I think broadly it's "be descriptive" (ansible-openstack) or "be fun" (cow-based). | 16:29 |
| odyssey4me | lol, sies Sam-I-Am | 16:29 |
| palendae | I bet the investors woiuld gladly sell it | 16:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | to soon? | 16:29 |
| gregdek | (wow. that's harsh.) | 16:29 |
| palendae | gregdek: So, as far as you know, no legal issues with having ansible in the name? | 16:29 |
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| palendae | I think there's concern about whether Ansible, Inc would condone it | 16:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | an5ible ... there, no trademark problems | 16:29 |
| palendae | ansistack | 16:29 |
| gregdek | palendae: if there are, that ship has kinda sailed, since Ansible is already in OSAD. | 16:30 |
| odyssey4me | s/legal/trademark/ | 16:30 |
| gregdek | And we basically endorsed that with all kinds of press. :) | 16:30 |
| palendae | odyssey4me: Trademarks are legal :p | 16:30 |
| d34dh0r53 | intergalacticstack | 16:30 |
| palendae | openstack-erector-set | 16:30 |
| odyssey4me | sounds fair enough :) | 16:30 |
| gregdek | So long as what $newcowproject is using is stock Ansible, legal should be ok. | 16:30 |
| palendae | Ok | 16:30 |
| palendae | Basically if we're not forking and calling it Ansible | 16:31 |
| sigmavirus24 | Queue E Em Ewe | 16:31 |
| palendae | PostgreStack | 16:31 |
| * odyssey4me kicks palendae :p | 16:31 | |
| gregdek | There's a potential political issue down the road: what happens if some other Ansible-based install project gets a head of steam? | 16:31 |
| sigmavirus24 | palendae: but trademark has to be enforced | 16:31 |
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| sigmavirus24 | And Ansible Inc could have enforced that before endorsing os-ansible-deployment | 16:31 |
| gregdek | But from my perspective, because OSAD planted the flag, OSAD has the name. | 16:32 |
| gregdek | When does the decision need to be made? | 16:32 |
| palendae | cloudnull was talking about EOW | 16:32 |
| palendae | So, tomorrow | 16:32 |
| gregdek | Because the paranoid side of me says I should probably sit down with counsel to make superdupersure. | 16:32 |
| palendae | Totally fair and reasonable to me | 16:32 |
| stevelle | that seems like a good idea | 16:32 |
| gregdek | OK, I'll go do that. | 16:32 |
| gregdek | Are we using a bot in here for action items? | 16:33 |
| cloudnull | gregdek: im going to put through the governance commit likely today , but that doesn't need to be finalized by tomorrow | 16:33 |
| cloudnull | yes | 16:33 |
| gregdek | Someone feel free to action me then :) | 16:33 |
| cloudnull | #action gregdek talk to legal people about using the ansible name in the OSAD project for OpenStack governance. | 16:34 |
| gregdek | Of course, this assumes the final vote is ansible-openstack and not $funcowname... | 16:34 |
| gregdek | ...which obviously doesn't require our help. :) | 16:34 |
| cloudnull | this is true. | 16:34 |
| gregdek | Part of me wants to stonewall you to make you choose $funcowname! | 16:34 |
| gregdek | (But I won't actually do that.) | 16:34 |
| cloudnull | i respect that :) | 16:35 |
| gregdek | Is it openstack-ansible or ansible-openstack? If legal has a preference, do you care? | 16:35 |
| palendae | Our IRC channell is #openstack-ansible now | 16:36 |
| cloudnull | gregdek: ^ | 16:36 |
| sigmavirus24 | moosible openstack | 16:36 |
| palendae | So we do have some precedence, but I suppose that could be changed | 16:36 |
| cloudnull | so ill submit the governance change today. and we'll circle back on the name if needed. | 16:36 |
| gregdek | OK. Simple enough. I'll have an answer soon. | 16:36 |
| cloudnull | #action commit governance change to https://github.com/openstack/governance | 16:37 |
| cloudnull | gregdek: is it ok if i cc you on the ML post for the change ? | 16:37 |
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| cloudnull | so moving on. | 16:39 |
| cloudnull | #Blueprints | 16:39 |
| cloudnull | #topic Blueprints | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: OpenStack Ansible Meeting)" | 16:39 | |
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| cloudnull | hahaha | 16:43 |
| cloudnull | wrong channel | 16:43 |
| palendae | gj | 16:43 |
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| cloudnull | just to recap because im an idiot | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:37] <palendae> That's happening. Only stones-- is tomorrow | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:38] <cloudnull> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189938/ needs further approval when someone gets a chance | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:39] <palendae> cloudnull: was in process, should be ready soon | 16:44 |
| b3rnard0 | i guess i know what i'm doing next week | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:40] <cloudnull> palendae: this spec was merged so i think we're good there. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/173155/ | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:41] <palendae> cloudnull: Yeah, just making sure I go over the scripty parts | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:41] <cloudnull> ok. | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:42] <cloudnull> palendae: is there any blockers into further implementation ? | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:42] <cloudnull> anything that you need to make it go? | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:42] <palendae> cloudnull: Of docs? Getting healthy again :p | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:43] <cloudnull> #action palendae needs to get healthy again | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:43] <palendae> I need to re-review what's in the list in the BP and get to writing the rest of the sections | 16:44 |
| cloudnull | [11:43] <cloudnull> ok | 16:44 |
| palendae | wow the pings | 16:44 |
| palendae | But basically yes, the developer docs BP has stalled while I deal with health issus. | 16:45 |
| cloudnull | ok | 16:45 |
| cloudnull | Sam-I-Am: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181544/ this spec has been stalled a bit too | 16:46 |
| cloudnull | can we get some reviewers on it so that we can make it go. | 16:46 |
| cloudnull | seems like that leads us to the path of config validation | 16:46 |
| sigmavirus24 | yes | 16:47 |
| andymccr | ugh yeh i need to adjust my link to look for open specs too | 16:47 |
| sigmavirus24 | which I need to find time to work on | 16:47 |
| palendae | Yeah, schema validation should be broken out | 16:47 |
| cloudnull | agreed. | 16:47 |
| palendae | Not sure if that should be a hard prereq or not, but it does certainly make implementation of this easier | 16:48 |
| cloudnull | if someone has some cycles it would be great to get that spec written up . i think it will be of realy value for deployers. | 16:48 |
| cloudnull | *real | 16:48 |
| sigmavirus24 | the cli works just fine, we just need schema(s?) written for the various config files | 16:49 |
| sigmavirus24 | And I'm thinking of making the schema be able to be YAML | 16:49 |
| sigmavirus24 | so that it's YAML schema for YAML files | 16:49 |
| sigmavirus24 | Instead of having to write JSON | 16:49 |
| palendae | One thing that could put a wrench in that is extended config files. e.g. rpc-openstack has it's own | 16:50 |
| palendae | Not sure if those would just go un-checked or what | 16:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | palendae: the spec should have an opinion on when validation happens | 16:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | Either as a pre-req to running the playbooks, as an optional part of running them, or as part of the playbooks somehow | 16:50 |
| sigmavirus24 | I leave that decision as an exercise for the spec author | 16:51 |
| stevelle | I forget was linting going to be broken out or lumped into that | 16:51 |
| stevelle | I know there was discussion | 16:51 |
| * svg just got home | 16:51 | |
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| palendae | stevelle: I don't remember. I could see it being included | 16:53 |
| cloudnull | linting should remain stand alone imo | 16:53 |
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| cloudnull | but alas it also could be lumped in. im with sigmavirus24 the writer of the spec should sort that. | 16:54 |
| sigmavirus24 | And it'll get yak shaved anyway | 16:55 |
| sigmavirus24 | So | 16:55 |
| sigmavirus24 | YOLO | 16:55 |
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| palendae | Sure | 16:55 |
| cloudnull | So in the last few min id like a quick pull of people , this meeting time seems to be less that ideal for a fair amout of folks, | 16:55 |
| cloudnull | do we want to change it ? | 16:55 |
| sigmavirus24 | I was going to bring that up in #openstack-ansible | 16:55 |
| b3rnard0 | +1 | 16:55 |
| palendae | +1 from me. It's over the noon hour during DST | 16:55 |
| sigmavirus24 | lol | 16:55 |
| sigmavirus24 | +1 | 16:55 |
| cloudnull | and do we want to hold rotating meeting times for various time zones ? | 16:55 |
| sigmavirus24 | rotating meetings work well for some projects | 16:56 |
| sigmavirus24 | usually lends to confusion and frustration the largeer the project gets though | 16:56 |
| b3rnard0 | +1 | 16:56 |
| cloudnull | ok. | 16:56 |
| andymccr | from uk perspective, 5pm is often a time ppl need to leave for one reason or another. usually its ok for me personally but yeh i'd +1 | 16:56 |
| sigmavirus24 | so it should work now, but we should be open to reconsidering in a few months | 16:56 |
| odyssey4me | +1 to rotation | 16:56 |
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| cloudnull | so when would be best? | 16:56 |
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| d34dh0r53 | should we -1 hour from the start time during DST? | 16:57 |
| stevelle | I would say move 1 hour earlier and call it done | 16:57 |
| andymccr | -1 hour would be good for uk i think, but not sure how that impacts on west coasters! | 16:57 |
| stevelle | if you can find a room | 16:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | cloudnull: er, yeah i need to work on that spec | 16:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | cloudnull: sort of had some higher priorities | 16:58 |
| stevelle | as a west-coaster, any more than 1h earlier is gonna hurt | 16:59 |
| cloudnull | so when do we want to do this in UTC? | 16:59 |
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| Sam-I-Am | cloudnull: maybe 2 meetings? | 16:59 |
| stevelle | I feel if we are going for governance, do meeting in UTC | 16:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | meetings need to be in utc | 16:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | otherwise people's calendars get b3rnard0'd when DST happens in different locales | 17:00 |
| cathy_ | #startmeeting SFC project | 17:00 |
| openstack | cathy_: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 17:00 |
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| b3rnard0 | Sam-I-Am: just give me a diagram | 17:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | looks like we need to take this back to o-a | 17:00 |
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| cloudnull | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| cloudnull | sorry | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 11 17:00:43 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-06-11-16.03.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-06-11-16.03.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_ansible_meeting/2015/openstack_ansible_meeting.2015-06-11-16.03.log.html | 17:00 |
| cloudnull | we're out. sorry cathy_ | 17:00 |
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| cathy_ | $startmeeting SFC project | 17:01 |
| cathy_ | #startmeeting SFC project | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 11 17:01:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is cathy_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: SFC project)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'sfc_project' | 17:01 |
| johnsom | o/ | 17:01 |
| cathy_ | hi everyone | 17:01 |
| qwebirc1003062 | Hi Cathy, This is Ramanjaneya..from vikram team | 17:01 |
| pcarver | hi | 17:01 |
| igordcard_ | cathy_: hello | 17:01 |
| igordcard_ | hi all | 17:01 |
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| LouisF | hi Ramanjaneya | 17:01 |
| cathy_ | ok let's start | 17:02 |
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| cathy_ | #topic update on action items of last meeting | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "update on action items of last meeting (Meeting topic: SFC project)" | 17:02 | |
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| cathy_ | So the repository for this feature development is being created. | 17:03 |
| Swami | hi | 17:03 |
| cathy_ | armax: are you there? | 17:03 |
| cathy_ | Swami: hi | 17:03 |
| armax | hi | 17:03 |
| nbouthors | hello | 17:03 |
| cathy_ | For the network controller driver, I have updated the slide for that | 17:04 |
| cathy_ | nbouthors: hi | 17:04 |
| cathy_ | armax: do you have if the repository has been created or the infra team is still reviewing it? | 17:05 |
| cathy_ | I means do you know? | 17:05 |
| armax | cathy_: it’s still in progress…I suspect the infra team is busy dealing with a few project renames | 17:05 |
| armax | cathy_: it’ll be a little while longer | 17:05 |
| cathy_ | armax: ok, thanks | 17:06 |
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| cathy_ | here is the link to the slides https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SpVyLBCMRFBpMh7BsHmpENbSY6qh1s5NRsAS68ykd_0/edit?usp=sharing | 17:07 |
| cathy_ | any comment or questions on the action items? | 17:07 |
| armax | cathy_: let me reply to your question regarding agentless architecture in this forum | 17:08 |
| cathy_ | Ok, let's go to the next topic | 17:08 |
| armax | ? | 17:08 |
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| cathy_ | #topic Neutron port chain API | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron port chain API (Meeting topic: SFC project)" | 17:08 | |
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| cathy_ | armax: go ahead | 17:09 |
| Swami | cathy_: can you post your question here for the benefit of the audience. | 17:09 |
| fitoduarte | . | 17:09 |
| LouisF | armax: go ahead | 17:10 |
| armax | cathy_: ok | 17:10 |
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| armax | I am assuming that in slide 2 | 17:10 |
| armax | that the component running the ovs agent is compute host? | 17:11 |
| armax | or can it be something else? | 17:11 |
| Swami | armax: Yes it is the compute host. | 17:11 |
| LouisF | armax: yes | 17:11 |
| cathy_ | armax: yes | 17:12 |
| armax | having said that, I was asking if you guys had considered making the interaction between the controller node and the compute node without relying on the ovs agent | 17:12 |
| yamahata | Both traffic classifier and SFF? | 17:12 |
| cathy_ | what do you mean by the controller node? | 17:12 |
| Swami | controller node is the neutron server node. | 17:12 |
| LouisF | armax: can you give more details and perhaps and exmaple of where this is done? | 17:12 |
| LouisF | an example | 17:13 |
| armax | anyhow some for thought, I think it’s premature to talk about the architecture if we don’t first finalize whe most rudimentary API we want to implement this cycle | 17:13 |
| armax | LouisF: well, we don’t necessily need to talk to the ovs agent, that’s all | 17:13 |
| Swami | LouisF: for example in the current OVN architecture there is no agent in the compute node. So in future if we want to adopt such technology, we should be able to go agentless. That is what armax is pointing out. | 17:14 |
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| cathy_ | In existing OVS, it talks to the neutron Server through OVS agent. Are you suggesting to change this? | 17:14 |
| armax | all I am saying is that OVS can be controlled remotely | 17:15 |
| armax | just like other solutions do | 17:15 |
| armax | cathy_: I am simply asking if you had considered it | 17:16 |
| armax | cathy_: I am not suggesting anything right now :) | 17:16 |
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| LouisF | sonds like that is worthwile considering | 17:16 |
| cathy_ | armax: it is a possible option in the future | 17:17 |
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| armax | cathy_: I wouldn’t rule it out completely, and consider it a ‘future’ option | 17:17 |
| cathy_ | Will the OVN architecture available in L release? | 17:18 |
| armax | cathy_: because until we figure out what interaction is required with the vswitch everything is fair game | 17:18 |
| armax | cathy_: OVN has nothing to do with what I am saying | 17:18 |
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| cathy_ | I see that Swami said that you are referring to OVN architecture. | 17:19 |
| Swami | cathy_: I just gave an example for LouisF. | 17:19 |
| armax | Swami: no I wasn't | 17:19 |
| cathy_ | Maybe it is better to discuss this in the email to clarify what you have in mind. Let's move on to next topic | 17:20 |
| cathy_ | armax: OK with you? | 17:21 |
| armax | cathy_: yss | 17:21 |
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| pcarver | cathy_: other examples would be Contrail and Nuage. Nothing specific to OVN, just lots of options out there that either do or will support service chaining | 17:21 |
| pcarver | The service chaining API shouldn't be tied tightly to any one implementation | 17:22 |
| armax | pcarver: noone is saying otherwise as far as I can tell :) | 17:22 |
| LouisF | pcarver: agree, there should drivers for a wide variety of backend implementations | 17:22 |
| cathy_ | So if you are talking about different types of SDN controller, then it is through controller driver which is separate from the OVS driver. how about we discuss this in the email since the meeting time is short. | 17:22 |
| LouisF | should be | 17:22 |
| cathy_ | $topic Neutron port chain API for SFC | 17:23 |
| cathy_ | #topic 2.Neutron port chain API for SFC | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "2.Neutron port chain API for SFC (Meeting topic: SFC project)" | 17:23 | |
| armax | cathy_: I recall that vikram was going to respin https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177946 | 17:23 |
| armax | cathy_: any news on that? I have seen nothing popping up | 17:23 |
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| armax | is vikram around? | 17:24 |
| Mohankumar_ | HI cathy .. | 17:24 |
| Mohankumar_ | mohan here from vikram team | 17:24 |
| LouisF | armax: i will be updating, vikram is on vavation | 17:24 |
| LouisF | vacation | 17:24 |
| cathy_ | armax: vikram is on vacation. Louis will take care of this | 17:24 |
| Mohankumar_ | we started neutron client changes | 17:24 |
| armax | LouisF: ok, thanks, I think ultimately that spec will have to be moved over to the repo for SFC once we have it up and running | 17:24 |
| LouisF | armax: yes thanks | 17:25 |
| armax | LouisF: but for now, let’s iterate on that patch | 17:25 |
| LouisF | armax: agree | 17:25 |
| cathy_ | We will update the spec incorporating all the comments/input | 17:25 |
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| qwebirc1003062 | Hi I'm Ramanjaneya from vikram team.. | 17:25 |
| qwebirc1003062 | on behalf of vikram, Mohan started neutron client changes.. | 17:25 |
| cathy_ | let's now discuss the API and see if any questions/comments? | 17:26 |
| armax | qwebirc1003062: the neutron client changes are the last thing you wan’t to do | 17:26 |
| armax | *want | 17:27 |
| cathy_ | I know quite some people have given comments on that spec. Any issue/input that we can discuss in this meeting? | 17:27 |
| cathy_ | To move forward and make it for the L release, we need to reach consensus on the API and finalize the API | 17:28 |
| LouisF | we need to get conensus and agreement on the api first before making any changes | 17:28 |
| Mohankumar_ | agree | 17:28 |
| cathy_ | maybe we should put a time line on finalizing the API | 17:28 |
| cathy_ | ? | 17:29 |
| armax | cathy_: reviewing the API in the current status of the spec is a bit painful | 17:29 |
| armax | cathy_: as the wrong diff gets in the way | 17:29 |
| armax | this might deter some people from reviewing perhaps? | 17:29 |
| LouisF | armax: what do you mean by that? | 17:30 |
| cathy_ | armax: what do you mean by wrong diff? | 17:30 |
| armax | LouisF: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177946/ | 17:30 |
| armax | it shows that patch 177946 depends on an abandoned patch | 17:30 |
| armax | and the actual diff includes two modified files and a deleted one | 17:30 |
| armax | for something that should be freshly proposed that hardly makes any sense | 17:30 |
| armax | the diff is: +124, -510 | 17:31 |
| armax | when it should simply be only additions | 17:31 |
| cathy_ | armax: yes, that is a confusing. Louis could you fix that? | 17:31 |
| LouisF | armax: ok | 17:31 |
| cathy_ | so Louis will clean that up. Quite come people have given comments and there are multiple updated versions. I would suggest that everyone goes to the link and check the latest version and see if you have any more comments. | 17:33 |
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| armax | cathy_: yes, I’d give us one more week to see if we can pull it together | 17:34 |
| cathy_ | How about we get the review completed in two weeks from today so that we can start developing the code? | 17:34 |
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| cathy_ | armax: one week is OK with me | 17:35 |
| armax | cathy_: once the repo is set up and we move the spec over there, we can have one final push and start iterating on the code itself | 17:35 |
| LouisF | armax: i will put the spec in the networking-sfc repo | 17:35 |
| armax | cathy_: do we know of anyone who has started coding on a skeleton of the architecture that you put together with Sw? | 17:36 |
| armax | *Swami | 17:36 |
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| Swami | armax:hi | 17:36 |
| cathy_ | armax: Ok, so let's get the review done in one week and then we will have the spec over the new repo and start implementing it | 17:36 |
| cathy_ | some people have contacted me to sign up for development of different pieces of the architecture, We will cover this later in this meeting. | 17:37 |
| armax | cathy_: cool | 17:37 |
| cathy_ | that is one of our meeting topics too | 17:37 |
| cathy_ | now let's go to next topic | 17:38 |
| cathy_ | #topic Unified API and data model for flow classifier that can be used for SFC, QoS, Packet forwarding etc. | 17:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Unified API and data model for flow classifier that can be used for SFC, QoS, Packet forwarding etc. (Meeting topic: SFC project)" | 17:38 | |
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| cathy_ | Since Yujin can not join this IRC meeting and Vikram has signed up on driving this and Vikram is on vacation. let's move this topic to next meeting. | 17:39 |
| Swami | cathy_: Here is the link to the spec. #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186663/ | 17:40 |
| cathy_ | So let's go to next topic | 17:40 |
| armax | cathy_: although I am in favor of this initiative, I am not sure it’s the most sensible thing to do right now | 17:40 |
| armax | cathy_: I wonder if it’s better striving for some unification once we got some practical experience on how all these initiatives play out | 17:41 |
| cathy_ | Swami: the flow classifier in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186663/ is very similar to the flow classifier proposed in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177946/ | 17:41 |
| LouisF | armax: is would be useful to have a common api for a flow classifier | 17:41 |
| cathy_ | armax: agree | 17:41 |
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| armax | cathy_: especially if these initiatives are tacked separately, it may be difficult to coordinate who does what | 17:42 |
| armax | LouisF: agree | 17:42 |
| cathy_ | Since what Yujin proposed and wanted for packet forwarding is very close to what is proposed by the SFC spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177946/, let's implement the flow classifier in this SFC project but make it a independent module which cna be used or extended for other use case | 17:43 |
| Swami | cathy_: have you communicated to Yujin on this. | 17:44 |
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| cathy_ | Agree with Armax that let's first play it out and get some practical experience. | 17:44 |
| cathy_ | Swami: I will via email | 17:44 |
| cathy_ | Swami: it will be confusing to propose very similar API and data model in two separate spec. Let's merge it into one spec | 17:45 |
| Swami | cathy_: agree | 17:45 |
| cathy_ | Shall we move to the next topic? | 17:45 |
| LouisF | lets suggest that to Yuji | 17:45 |
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| cathy_ | LouisF: yes | 17:46 |
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| cathy_ | #topic : functional module breakdown and Module development ownership sign-up | 17:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": functional module breakdown and Module development ownership sign-up (Meeting topic: SFC project)" | 17:46 | |
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| cathy_ | let's reference to the slide and I will go one by one | 17:47 |
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| cathy_ | slide 4 | 17:47 |
| cathy_ | 1. repo creation, Armax has taken this. Thanks Armax! | 17:48 |
| cathy_ | 2 Integration with Neutron/devstack, CLI, Horizon, Heat, Anyone wants to take this? | 17:48 |
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| cathy_ | Mohankumar_: would you like to take this work? | 17:49 |
| Mohankumar_ | yes cathy | 17:50 |
| cathy_ | great, Thanks Mohankumar_ ! | 17:50 |
| cathy_ | now Service chain API Extension. Anyone takes this? | 17:50 |
| LouisF | i can take that | 17:50 |
| cathy_ | Thanks Louis! | 17:50 |
| Mohankumar_ | thanks :) | 17:51 |
| cathy_ | Service chain Plugin: API handling and Data Base. Anyone? | 17:51 |
| LouisF | i'l do that also | 17:51 |
| cathy_ | I can take this | 17:51 |
| cathy_ | Thanks Louis! | 17:51 |
| cathy_ | OVS Driver ? | 17:52 |
| LouisF | we need to also have a driver manager | 17:52 |
| cathy_ | LouisF: do you mean the common service chain API shim layer? | 17:53 |
| LouisF | to handle the different backend drivers eg ovs, odl.... | 17:53 |
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| LouisF | yes | 17:53 |
| cathy_ | common service chain API shim layer. Anyone wants to take this piece? | 17:53 |
| LouisF | i will look at that | 17:54 |
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| cathy_ | ok, thanks louis! | 17:54 |
| cathy_ | OVS agent on Host. Anyone taking this piece? | 17:54 |
| armax | cathy_: it’s probably better to ask what LouisF doesn’t want to do :) | 17:54 |
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| cathy_ | armax: :-) | 17:55 |
| armax | cathy_: for that I’d wait a little longer, as we might not even need it | 17:55 |
| LouisF | please volunterer and i am glad to hand off | 17:55 |
| LouisF | you mean use ovn? | 17:55 |
| cathy_ | armax: OK, let's go to the next piece | 17:55 |
| armax | this task assigment is going to be in flux anyway…in my experience people come and go so we’d need to be prepared to step in :) | 17:55 |
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| armax | LouisF: forget about OVN :) | 17:55 |
| armax | LouisF: I never mentioned it and blame Swami for putting it in people’s mind | 17:56 |
| armax | s | 17:56 |
| Swami | LouisF: If you want me to take up the ext and plugin part I can take it. | 17:56 |
| LouisF | :] | 17:56 |
| cathy_ | armax: 100% agree with that we need to be prepared to step in. | 17:56 |
| Swami | armax: I swear that I just gave an example | 17:56 |
| cathy_ | Service chain Classifier on host. Anyone? | 17:56 |
| armax | Swami: I know, I know :) | 17:57 |
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| IlyaG | Hi! anyone tried to run CI on top of Fuel Juno using ESX? | 17:57 |
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| LouisF | may nicolas? | 17:57 |
| LouisF | maybe | 17:57 |
| cathy_ | I know that Nicolos will take this piece. He has told me that | 17:57 |
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| cathy_ | Service function forwarder with NSH Type 2 encapsulation. Anyone? | 17:58 |
| cathy_ | Swami: would you like to take this? | 17:58 |
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| cathy_ | I can help with this piece too | 17:58 |
| cathy_ | Swami: ? | 17:59 |
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| Swami | cathy_: sorry I was looking at some other information. | 17:59 |
| igordcard | What are you going to use as NSH-aware VNFs? | 17:59 |
| nbouthors_ | cathy: we can provide a service classifier | 17:59 |
| Swami | cathy_: yes i am here | 17:59 |
| Swami | cathy_: I can help with the classifier. | 18:00 |
| cathy_ | igordcard: not NSH-aware VNF for the first release | 18:00 |
| cathy_ | let's wrap the meeting up. | 18:01 |
| cathy_ | and continue in next meeting. | 18:01 |
| cathy_ | Thanks everyone. Bye now | 18:01 |
| igordcard | bye | 18:01 |
| armax | bye | 18:01 |
| Mohankumar_ | bye ! | 18:01 |
| cathy_ | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 11 18:01:48 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sfc_project/2015/sfc_project.2015-06-11-17.01.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sfc_project/2015/sfc_project.2015-06-11-17.01.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sfc_project/2015/sfc_project.2015-06-11-17.01.log.html | 18:01 |
| Swami | bye | 18:01 |
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