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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/api-site: Use in-tree baremetal api-ref rather than WADL https://review.openstack.org/327399 | 00:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/api-site: Added the jclouds getting started code sample https://review.openstack.org/324235 | 00:33 |
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| Sam-I-Am | loquacities: you around? | 01:38 |
| loquacities | yep | 01:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | have some thoughts i want to run by you | 01:39 |
| loquacities | sure | 01:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | i suppose at some point it made sense to have central docs for openstack... particularly when projects were few and the ratio of docs folks to devs was fairly high. | 01:40 |
| loquacities | is this you calling for us to dissolve? | 01:41 |
| loquacities | that escalated quickly! | 01:41 |
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| Sam-I-Am | haha | 01:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | no | 01:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | somewhere after openstack became a thing and before the big tent, docs contributions from core projects waned for one reason or another... or were never actually there because docs folks could cover it, or the kind of docs folks we had were well integrated into various projects | 01:42 |
| loquacities | you would have to ask anne, but i suspect that before there was a docs project, 'docs folks' in openstack were largely non-existent | 01:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | even when i started things werent nearly as big and complex as they are today | 01:42 |
| loquacities | except for perhaps a small number of concerned devs | 01:43 |
| loquacities | true | 01:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | the big tent made things more interesting, and i'm not sure everyone was aware of how it would play out | 01:43 |
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| Sam-I-Am | a lot of those projects are writing some docs, however bad they might be, and putting them into their own repos. | 01:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | non-dev people use d.o.o to find docs, but our docs dont cover many big tent projects... and a lot of core projects simply dont contribute to core docs either (like keystone, nova, and glance) | 01:45 |
| loquacities | and ironic :P | 01:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | the core projects really dont have an excuse, but at this rate i dont think its something we can fix | 01:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | rather, attempting to fix it is going to require a huge undertaking of us actively involving ourselves with those projects rather than the other way around | 01:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | maybe back in the core projects days we could accomplish something like that, but not with the big tent | 01:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | of course someone could slap some governance on that says "thou shalt contribute docs" but that method usually doesnt work. we have enough bad karma. :/ | 01:47 |
| loquacities | i dunno, we're getting some good traction with CPLs | 01:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, we are... and i want to keep those folks engaged | 01:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | from the discussion with ironic today, and various other projects over the years, it seems a lot of them have in-tree docs that could be munged into focusing on the operator-type audience with a little help from us | 01:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's also some issues with contributing to another repo, another review queue, etc. | 01:50 |
| loquacities | yep, agreed | 01:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | question is... should we think about changing our focus from maintaining central docs to maintaining the structure that enables people to find stuff (d.o.o) and helping projects munge their in-tree docs to fit the audiences we know best (and we know how to write) | 01:51 |
| loquacities | isn't that what we're doing with the install guide? | 01:52 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yeah, we are... although the install guide is sort of a rough thing to start with | 01:52 |
| loquacities | true, but it was the thing we had the most investment in from projects | 01:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | api, config ref, user guide, admin guide... those things are a bit easier imo | 01:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | the install guide is finicky because of the wide variety of audience it covers and the goal of making everything work the first time so people adopt openstack | 01:53 |
| loquacities | yep, i agree | 01:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | of all of the docs, its the most fragile and probably the first thing new people use | 01:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | but that aside... | 01:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | the networking guide could easily go into the neutron repo, and be referenced from d.o.o ... and i guarantee it would get more contributions from devs | 01:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | such a guide for each project seems useful | 01:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | "you have a basic working openstack deployment from the install guide, now you can do this..." | 01:55 |
| loquacities | yep | 01:55 |
| Sam-I-Am | i keep thinking about reorganizing our content into one (mainly one) book by project... and this is sort of an extension of that idea. | 01:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | on the downside, the docs may not be as consistent or awesome, but the content people want is there, and more devs would contribute (i hope) | 01:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | it also gives less technical docs contributors a LOT of things to work on that dont require knowing openstack | 01:57 |
| loquacities | so you're willing to sacrifice consistency and writing quality for more dev contributions? | 01:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | we'd probably want some interaction with docs patches in a project repo. either the docs liaison would handle most of the stuff, or they'd tag someone from the docs team... or have a prescribed liaison from the docs team. like i do with neutron. | 01:59 |
| loquacities | couldn't we do that without physically moving the docs into project repos? | 02:00 |
| loquacities | i mean, isn't that what a CPL is? | 02:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, except for the "its another repo/queue" barrier... and other allergies. | 02:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | our docs are getting outdated and covering less and less of openstack, so we need to do something | 02:01 |
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| loquacities | that's a fairly small problem, though, and a pretty massive solution | 02:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | the key is somehow making a bunch of different projects appear coherent to the outside world, which makes them usable... and somehow drum up docs contribs from those people. | 02:03 |
| loquacities | to be fair, i think we need to complete the install guide experiment before we can make the cal | 02:03 |
| loquacities | call* | 02:03 |
| Sam-I-Am | openstack has put up a lot of silos since i first started... projects have zero idea whats going on outside of them, and really dont seem to care that openstack needs to function as a whole to some extent | 02:03 |
| Sam-I-Am | it cant appear like a bunch of science projects | 02:03 |
| loquacities | there are other things (like the nova feature classification) which i'd like to do something similar with, too, so I think there's a bunch of things we can consider once we know if the install guide is working under the new system | 02:03 |
| loquacities | that's not a problem i'm in a position to fix | 02:04 |
| loquacities | you need to bring that up with foundation, i think | 02:04 |
| loquacities | i mean, i agree with you, but it's way above my pay grade | 02:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think there's a neutron feature classification thing to thats going into the neutron tree :/ | 02:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, the least i wanted to do was make you aware (if you werent already) of the issue... or that someone else has been thinking about the long-term viability of our current charter | 02:06 |
| loquacities | yeah, it's based off the nova one | 02:06 |
| loquacities | yeah, it's something i've been thinking about too | 02:06 |
| loquacities | either way, though, i think we need to wait and see what happens with the install guide first | 02:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, i agree, but i also think it wont give us as clear of a picture as the api | 02:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's just not enough experience with devs building environments outside of devstack | 02:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | hell, i had a neutron dev submit a patch for something solely on the way devstack did something, without even reading the neutron code | 02:08 |
| loquacities | it'll at least give us an idea of infrastructure, and hopefully a better relationship with the projects generally | 02:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | even with the install guide in-flight, i wonder if we should float the idea of more stuff in-tree with the projects (via the liaisons) | 02:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | basically give them the big picture view of what d.o.o would do (one place to find stuff) | 02:10 |
| loquacities | one thing at a time ;) | 02:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, i get it. i have my reservations about the install guide for... reasons... and dont want it to give a bad impression of the general concept if it doesnt work | 02:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | it could take many cycles to get it right, just like the original install guide | 02:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pranav Salunke proposed openstack/training-labs: Making the generate labs script more nicer. https://review.openstack.org/326503 | 04:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/training-labs: Making the generate labs script more nicer. https://review.openstack.org/326503 | 04:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-doc-tools: Allow for config option flags https://review.openstack.org/315608 | 04:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pranav Salunke proposed openstack/training-labs: Infra: Adding other-requirements.txt https://review.openstack.org/327463 | 05:05 |
| openstackgerrit | Pranav Salunke proposed openstack/training-labs: Making the generate labs script more nicer. https://review.openstack.org/327464 | 05:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [contributor] Explain Project install guides https://review.openstack.org/327470 | 05:53 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pranav Salunke proposed openstack/training-labs: Force pushing generate-labs script. https://review.openstack.org/327479 | 06:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/training-labs: Force pushing generate-labs script. https://review.openstack.org/327479 | 06:32 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: [contributor] Explain Project install guides https://review.openstack.org/327470 | 07:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pallavi proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: Removed misplaced line from Message Queue section Closes-Bug: #1588627 https://review.openstack.org/327494 | 07:22 |
| openstack | bug 1588627 in openstack-manuals "RST conversion artifact in Designing for Cloud Controllers and Cloud Management in Operations Guide" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1588627 - Assigned to Pallavi (pallavi-s) | 07:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | KATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/openstack-doc-tools: [cli-reference] Remove Cue project https://review.openstack.org/327505 | 08:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Olga Gusarenko proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [ops] Minor edit https://review.openstack.org/327494 | 08:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Maria Zlatkova proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [contributor] Editorial changes https://review.openstack.org/327166 | 09:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: [ops] Minor edit https://review.openstack.org/327494 | 09:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: [config-ref] Add POSIX/GlusterFS backup drivers https://review.openstack.org/325833 | 09:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: [image] add image-bootstrap tool https://review.openstack.org/325556 | 09:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alexandra Settle proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [networking-guide] Including new chap header to avoid confusion https://review.openstack.org/327535 | 09:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Alexandra Settle proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [networking-guide] Including new chap header to avoid confusion https://review.openstack.org/327535 | 09:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: [contributor] Editorial changes https://review.openstack.org/327166 | 09:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alexandra Settle proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [networking-guide] Including new chap header to avoid confusion https://review.openstack.org/327535 | 09:51 |
| openstackgerrit | Alexandra Settle proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [networking-guide] Including new header to avoid confusion https://review.openstack.org/327535 | 09:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: [config-ref] create CloudByte volume driver section https://review.openstack.org/326415 | 10:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | KATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [config-ref] Add POSIX/GlusterFS backup drivers https://review.openstack.org/327594 | 10:59 |
| openstackgerrit | KATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [config-ref] create CloudByte volume driver section https://review.openstack.org/327595 | 10:59 |
| openstackgerrit | KATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [config-ref] update MacVTap plug-in https://review.openstack.org/327596 | 10:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-doc-tools: [cli-reference] Remove Cue project https://review.openstack.org/327505 | 11:11 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: [config-ref] add secondary management IP for Storwize SVC https://review.openstack.org/324355 | 11:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | KATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [config-ref] update Coho Data volume driver https://review.openstack.org/326406 | 11:17 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/api-site: Updates to README for current state https://review.openstack.org/327395 | 12:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alexandra Settle proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [networking-guide] Removing duplicated content https://review.openstack.org/327535 | 12:33 |
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| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [network] Document OVS-DPDK support https://review.openstack.org/327649 | 13:14 |
| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [network] Document OVS-DPDK support https://review.openstack.org/327649 | 13:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [network] Document OVS-DPDK support https://review.openstack.org/327649 | 13:17 |
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| jroll | Sam-I-Am: reading back, I've heard oslo-config-generator has plans to auto-publish the config reference this cycle, so that should mostly complete that item I think :) | 13:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | KATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/openstack-doc-tools: [cli-reference] remove oslo.log installation https://review.openstack.org/327675 | 13:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Stephen Finucane proposed openstack/openstack-manuals: [network] Document OVS-DPDK support https://review.openstack.org/327649 | 14:24 |
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| Sam-I-Am | jroll: in-tree ? | 14:50 |
| jroll | Sam-I-Am: yeah, AIUI it will basically take the generated help text for the config options and somehow propogate those (not sure if directly to the site, or to the manuals repo) | 14:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/openstack-manuals: [config-ref] Add POSIX/GlusterFS backup drivers https://review.openstack.org/327594 | 18:16 |
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| AndyWojo | how do I print the implementation guide? | 21:45 |
| AndyWojo | its broken up and theres no print button | 21:45 |
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