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| arslanq | hi guys: i deployed devstack on master but i cannot access horizon. I ran stack again but same issue...service seems to be running but i cant access horizon, here are some logs from "/var/log/httpd/horizon_error.log" : https://pastebin.mozilla.org/9022059 | 05:58 |
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| arslanq | probably it was related to iptables ...got it | 06:24 |
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| arslanq | now facing issues on cell mapping i am not sure how to fix this | 06:24 |
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| openstackgerrit | Flavio Percoco proposed openstack/governance master: Drop Technical Committee meetings https://review.openstack.org/459848 | 10:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Flavio Percoco proposed openstack/governance master: Document voting process for `formal-vote` patches https://review.openstack.org/463141 | 10:04 |
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| * cdent wonders if he needs to send dims to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/MailingListEtiquette :P | 10:12 | |
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| dims | LOL what did i do cdent ? :) | 10:27 |
| cdent | you didn't trim anything in your response to ttx :) | 10:27 |
| dims | ah. loved the whole thing :) | 10:28 |
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| cdent | heh | 10:28 |
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| seyeongkim | "cinder upload-to-image" doesn't copy image properties on volume which is created by "cinder create --image-id " , btw, cinderclient is EOL? | 11:53 |
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| fungi | seyeongkim: what makes you say cinderclient is eol? 2.0.1 was released a couple months ago and changes have merged to its master branch within the last week | 12:01 |
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| fungi | though i wouldn't be surprised if the cinder team deprecated it for general client use in favor of the unified openstackclient | 12:02 |
| fungi | i haven't heard that to be the case (yet anyway) | 12:02 |
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| seyeongkim | fungi, thanks. and sorry lack of info. I checked it before my question about upload-to-image | 12:03 |
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| fungi | as for upload-to-image copying image properties, if that's an expected behavior then i would recommend filing a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-cinderclient/+filebug | 12:08 |
| seyeongkim | ok, thanks fungi | 12:08 |
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| fungi | i don't really hack on cinderclient (or cinder) so don't have any better suggestions there, but hopefully the people who do will see your bug report | 12:10 |
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| sdague | mordred: mostly hiding today to get some post summit writeup stuff done, however make sure that you keep up on the APIKey thread, a really interesting point about some permissions that are going to be need to be stripped by default (i.e. stopping APIKeys from self propogating) | 12:44 |
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| sdague | which, fortunately I think are all keystone level right now, so easy to just block those for APIKeys | 12:45 |
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| mordred | sdague: ++ | 12:52 |
| mordred | sdague: I'm currently finishing a rebase of the discovery specs, then next up is the api key thread and spec, then after that the database thread | 12:53 |
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| mordred | fungi, seyeongkim: just a quick followup - I would consider the CLI tool shipped by python-cinderclient to be EOL/deprecated in favor of python-openstackclient. I would not consider python-cinderclient _library_ EOL/deprecated. | 12:54 |
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| mordred | the two are unfortunately intertwined which makes discussion harder than one might like | 12:54 |
| sdague | mordred: cool. After some pretty in depth dive here for the first couple of days, I need to go deal with other things, so I'll probably ignore any more specs stuff until next week | 12:55 |
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| mordred | sdague: cool - I think you've +1d the spec I was most concerned about getting your feedback on specifically | 12:57 |
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| mordred | I'd love feedback on the others, but it's not essential that _you_ do so | 12:57 |
| mordred | oh- well - except one quick thing ... | 12:57 |
| mordred | sdague: before you run off - I have a proposal to add a "collection" link to the link structure of the version discovery links list (to aid naviation to the unversioned doc from the versioned) and a nova poc patch that implements the suggestion. it's a change to a document that is otherwise kind of unversionable, but in a list that does not have a strict definition of contents | 12:59 |
| mordred | do you have any strong objection to making such an addition? | 12:59 |
| sdague | honestly, I probably need to look at the whole stack and rebuild context. It's all back out of my head because I've had the pg and apikey (and the container artifact one to a lesser degree) in my head the last few days | 13:00 |
| mordred | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459710/7/guidelines/discoverability.rst 225-243 | 13:00 |
| mordred | ok. I'll poke you about it next week then | 13:00 |
| sdague | oh, and some quotas / roles chat with lance yesterday ... that easly flushes everything else out :) | 13:00 |
| sdague | yeh, that's probably best | 13:01 |
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| smcginnis | mordred: Sorry, I have to disagree with the earlier statement about python-cinderclient CLI being deprecated. | 13:07 |
| smcginnis | mordred: There's A LOT of missing functionality in osc yet. | 13:07 |
| smcginnis | mordred: Until they reach parity, cinderclient CLI isn't going anywhere. | 13:07 |
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| mordred | smcginnis: ah - ok. good to know | 13:23 |
| mordred | smcginnis: I think I'd think of that as 'deprecated by not EOL' - although we might need better words for that. 'deprecated' in that 'it's recommended to use openstackclient if you can' - but not EOL because 'there are many cases in which you can't' | 13:24 |
| mordred | sdague: where was the quotas/roles chat? | 13:25 |
| sdague | mordred: it was an aside, mostly me trying to figure out with osic who's around to help with things so I can figure out what things to prioritize | 13:26 |
| mordred | ah. ok | 13:26 |
| mordred | sdague: so nothing I need to go read for api key spec incorporation | 13:27 |
| sdague | nope | 13:27 |
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| sdague | I do think that lance and I got some further understanding on the communication break downs around some of the policy work, and why I get confused by some things. Which when I have enough brain power I might be able to turn into something coherent on the mailing list. | 13:28 |
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| smcginnis | mordred: FWIW, in talks and things I've been pushing using osc wherever I can. | 13:32 |
| arslanq | hi everyone: i am facing an issue regarding DHCP....i installed devstack on master and spawned VMs but they don't get IP address from DHCP | 13:35 |
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| mordred | smcginnis: ++ | 13:42 |
| mordred | smcginnis: I do think we should come up with a better word/phrase to use than deprecated though - cause you're right, it can't be deprecated-deprecated until feature parity | 13:43 |
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| sdague | mordred: ok, so I need a break from this write up, so here is some brain droppings from the lance chat | 13:46 |
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| sdague | In looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/968696 (the infamous keystone is_admin) bug | 13:46 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 968696 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) ""admin"-ness not properly scoped" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Gage Hugo (gagehugo) | 13:46 |
| sdague | I think it's conflating 2 things | 13:46 |
| sdague | apparently there was an old keystone feature where permissions could be granted on a project, but it was overloading some admin flag | 13:47 |
| sdague | but, there are at least 2 axes here, that are better unwound | 13:47 |
| sdague | because axis 1, is being admin on keystone also mean I'm admin on nova (or visa versa) | 13:48 |
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| sdague | which, actually would be totally fixable with a new way of expressing intent POST /users/permissions ("region1", "compute", "admin") | 13:49 |
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| sdague | and when the context is inflated in region1/compute is_admin is set on that context | 13:49 |
| sdague | that lets you segment ops teams | 13:49 |
| sdague | which some people need | 13:50 |
| sdague | and, in reality you would kind of need to do that even if you want admin on a project | 13:50 |
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| sdague | because if being admin on a project wasn't service separated, being able to add users to a project means you can live migrate servers in that project, and see the real hostnames servers are on | 13:51 |
| sdague | which, is definitely not going to be what people expected | 13:52 |
| sdague | basically, I think roles and policies have gotten quite extended from their original scope, and we need to step back and create some better intent interfaces | 13:53 |
| sdague | and realize that means there may be other internal constructs that give us the right answer, but that's fine, refactoring internals isn't too bad if you have explicit interfaces | 13:54 |
| sdague | the biggest problem is a lot of implicit behavior today | 13:54 |
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| sdague | and with keystone middleware and oslo.context inflating magic, we can take into account which service we are on, so we don't have to teach services about other services. is_admin (at least in the first problem) is a local variable to the service. | 13:56 |
| sdague | vs. today knowing that is_admin on nova also means neutron | 13:57 |
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| sdague | lbragstad: re your last email | 15:20 |
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| sdague | there is no reason we couldn't clone the roles right? | 15:20 |
| sdague | lbragstad: I'm trying to understand what your concerns are there | 15:21 |
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| lbragstad | sdague: oh - sure | 15:26 |
| lbragstad | sdague: i was trying to walk through what happens when those roles change for a user | 15:26 |
| lbragstad | for example, if Bob has the 'member' and 'observer' roles on project Foo and he creates an API key for both of those roles | 15:27 |
| lbragstad | or more specifically - an API key that has cloned both of those roles | 15:27 |
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| lbragstad | then what happens if Bob no longer has the 'member' role on that project? | 15:27 |
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| lbragstad | Should the API key still be able to do permissions enabled by 'member'? | 15:28 |
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| lbragstad | Even though Bob doesn't have the 'member' role on Foo anymore? | 15:29 |
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| * lbragstad leans towards thinking that should be allowed | 15:29 | |
| sdague | lbragstad: yes it should be | 15:29 |
| lbragstad | shouldn't* | 15:29 |
| sdague | that's kind of the whole point of why it's on the project | 15:29 |
| sdague | and not on the user | 15:30 |
| sdague | because the user could be removed | 15:30 |
| sdague | that's actually one of the key use cases, we fire bob | 15:30 |
| lbragstad | oh - ok, i was still thinking this would be a user + project thing | 15:30 |
| lbragstad | and I was only looking at it from that angle, which seems to be something we don't want | 15:31 |
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| sdague | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-May/116743.html | 15:32 |
| sdague | so, I think those 5 criteria scope things pretty well | 15:32 |
| sdague | the APIKey gets to be as good as I am, right now, when I create it | 15:32 |
| sdague | and if the user roles are changed in the future, doesn't impact the APIKey | 15:33 |
| sdague | because if it did, you'd have really weird coupling | 15:33 |
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| lbragstad | sdague: so to be clear | 15:34 |
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| lbragstad | sdague: let's say we have a project, where we both have role assignments on the project | 15:34 |
| lbragstad | i have 'observer' and you have 'member' | 15:35 |
| sdague | yep, this is the slightly fun edge case | 15:35 |
| lbragstad | you create an API key that uses 'member' | 15:35 |
| sdague | yep | 15:35 |
| lbragstad | but then you lose the 'member' role and no one else on the project has a 'member' role assignment | 15:35 |
| lbragstad | what's the right thing to do? | 15:35 |
| sdague | yes, but the key still does | 15:35 |
| sdague | the key keeps permissions | 15:36 |
| sdague | the key exists because it was created to run apps | 15:37 |
| sdague | so it might be running department email | 15:37 |
| lbragstad | sure | 15:38 |
| sdague | if you implicitly change APIKey permissions because of an unrelated action, you now cause basically impossible to debug cascading fails of business infrastructure | 15:38 |
| sdague | no implicit changes. | 15:38 |
| sdague | As a keystone admin, you can direct revoke that key, or drop it's roles | 15:38 |
| sdague | but that's direct operations | 15:38 |
| lbragstad | so - it's totally possible to take a snapshot of authorization on a project using APP keys | 15:38 |
| sdague | not magically coupling | 15:39 |
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| sdague | lbragstad: yeh, so that's kind of what I assumed | 15:40 |
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| lbragstad | ok | 15:40 |
| sdague | and it is the premise of least surprise | 15:41 |
| sdague | I can do X | 15:41 |
| sdague | I create an APIKey, it also can do X | 15:41 |
| lbragstad | so going further down that path, should it be possible for a member of the project with "less" privileges to clean up an API key? | 15:41 |
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| lbragstad | or can you only revoke an API key iff you have the same privleges as the API key itself? | 15:41 |
| sdague | lbragstad: I think we'll have to figure out what the level of permission required to do cleanup is | 15:41 |
| lbragstad | ok - yeah | 15:42 |
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| sdague | but that's kind of the whole fine grained permission problem writ large | 15:42 |
| sdague | because it's not like observer is first level construct in openstack | 15:42 |
| lbragstad | right | 15:43 |
| lbragstad | i default to using it because it makes things easier to visualize | 15:43 |
| sdague | right, except it's all the magic implicit stuff | 15:43 |
| sdague | and non cloud standard :) | 15:43 |
| lbragstad | yeah | 15:43 |
| sdague | I think this entire fine grained permissions phase 2 is going to need to be built out of explicit 1st class intents expressed in the API | 15:44 |
| lbragstad | sdague: example? | 15:45 |
| sdague | like saying anything about observer, just doesn't work | 15:45 |
| sdague | roles are site specific, there is nothing hard coded in openstack about what a role means expect admin | 15:45 |
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| sdague | everything else is site invented | 15:45 |
| sdague | including names | 15:45 |
| lbragstad | oh - right | 15:46 |
| sdague | observer doesn't mean anything explicit | 15:46 |
| lbragstad | if we got default policies to a point where that wasn't the case, would that make this easier? | 15:46 |
| sdague | or.... we could start talking about explicit permissions | 15:46 |
| sdague | because default policies != deployed policies | 15:47 |
| lbragstad | yeah - that's fair | 15:47 |
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| sdague | especially across 5+ versions of deployed openstack, which is what the field is going to look like at any given time | 15:47 |
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| lbragstad | sdague: so - what does an example of an explicit permission look like to you? | 15:50 |
| sdague | POST /apikey/{id}/permissions {"region": "region1", "service_type": "compute", "method": "POST", "url": "/servers"} | 15:52 |
| sdague | POST /apikey/{id}/permissions {"region": "region1", "service_type": "compute", "method": "POST", "url": "/servers/{id}/action", "action": "rebuild"} | 15:53 |
| lbragstad | ahhhh | 15:53 |
| sdague | it's just an example, but that's what explicitly granting user understanable permissions means to me in a REST API context | 15:55 |
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| sdague | lbragstad: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-May/116743.html towards the end kind of goes there, but maybe not as explicit in statement | 15:55 |
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| lbragstad | sdague: so then when that API key is used, it needs to relay that information along and the service has to honor it | 16:00 |
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| sdague | right, that is going to need to be checked on inbound API call | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | For anyone noticing Cinder python27 unit test failures, we hopefully have a workaround going through the gate right now. | 16:01 |
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| sdague | lbragstad: so... again, this is why I don't think this is policy | 16:02 |
| lbragstad | sdague: right - that's making sense now | 16:03 |
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| sdague | because this is a set of API understood permissions, that aren't that hard to teach to the API consumers, because they look like API calls | 16:03 |
| sdague | and... more importantly, they are only checked on REST entry | 16:03 |
| lbragstad | sdague: I was, for one reason or another, thinking about this from the same point of view I was when we originally discussed it at the PTG (obviously the landscape changed) | 16:03 |
| sdague | because, I should not actually have to know that a glance GET is part of a server build workflow | 16:04 |
| sdague | POST /apikey/{id}/permissions {"region": "region1", "service_type": "compute", "method": "POST", "url": "/servers"} | 16:04 |
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| lbragstad | sure - yep | 16:04 |
| sdague | that APIKey can build a server completely, because the reject is at the border | 16:04 |
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| lbragstad | yep - so anything after entry is honored | 16:04 |
| sdague | after it passes that point, services doing things with it's token fall back to roles | 16:04 |
| sdague | that APIKey would not be able to directly fetch images | 16:05 |
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| lbragstad | but it can throw building servers | 16:05 |
| lbragstad | through* | 16:05 |
| sdague | right | 16:05 |
| sdague | POST /apikey/{id}/permissions {"region": "region1", "service_type": "compute", "method": "POST", "url": "/servers/{id}/action", "action": "snapshot"} | 16:05 |
| sdague | now, I can snapshot a server into glance | 16:06 |
| sdague | but that key can't directly upload to it | 16:06 |
| sdague | as another instance | 16:06 |
| lbragstad | sure | 16:06 |
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| lbragstad | this reminds me of something jamielennox was talking about a few summits ago | 16:06 |
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| lbragstad | just a similar pattern is all | 16:10 |
| sdague | cool, then I'm in good company :) | 16:11 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 16:12 |
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| dims | So we are doing this? :) awesome | 16:24 |
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| sdague | dims: the momentum seems to be building | 16:25 |
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| lbragstad | so enforcing the bits to do permissions (spitballing on step two here) could be done in middleware provided enough information is given in the scope of an API key | 16:26 |
| lbragstad | thinking about the bits that do permission enforcement* | 16:27 |
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| lbragstad | sdague: i might be getting the cart in front of the horse, but how do we expect the validation of permissions placed on API keys to work? | 16:31 |
| sdague | lbragstad: yeh, don't fully know | 16:33 |
| lbragstad | sdague: that's fair | 16:33 |
| sdague | it's also ... Queens/Rocky time frame | 16:33 |
| lbragstad | right | 16:33 |
| sdague | let's not do the openstack thing of discussing the design points 3 cycles out without getting the foundation done :) | 16:34 |
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| lbragstad | sure - i think i have a better understanding of what the differences are today from three months ago in ATL | 16:36 |
| sdague | yep, for sure | 16:38 |
| sdague | honestly, the building of shared understanding is hugely useful in moving forward | 16:38 |
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| efried | sdague Combining foreground & background colors, we can actually get 64K of 'em ;-) | 16:48 |
| efried | sdague Tough part is figuring out which ones are readable. | 16:48 |
| efried | sdague Would love to do it algorithmically, but I'm afraid that'd only cover part of it. | 16:48 |
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| sdague | heh | 16:58 |
| sdague | so, don't do background, that's going to get evil :) | 16:58 |
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| * fungi only recognizes the ansi color palette ;) | 17:30 | |
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| fungi | <- still using a 16-color xterm for most things | 17:30 |
| * bkero been very happy with his urxvt -bg black -fg green | 17:31 | |
| bkero | It's like a 1980s library terminal every day! | 17:31 |
| fungi | quieter than the teletype terminal too ;) | 17:32 |
| bkero | You're assuming I'm not using the original Model M. | 17:33 |
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| fungi | the bucking spring click can't compete with the volume of an impact printer, sorry | 17:37 |
| fungi | buckling | 17:37 |
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| sdague | fungi: then it would just get dropped which is fine | 17:40 |
| sdague | but 256 color is pretty nice in terminals | 17:40 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm honestly fine dealing with missing colorization. pretty used to it in fact | 17:40 |
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| bkero | My only use for a 256 color terminal is running 256color2.pl to see if it's working, then IRC nick coloring. | 17:45 |
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| ihrachys | mtreinish, wonder if you have thoughts on approach taken in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/465554/ | 18:17 |
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| ihrachys | mtreinish, is it ok/better to have VM creation per test case and not on class level? | 18:17 |
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| mtreinish | ihrachys: it's a tradeoff between runtime and proper isolation. Personally, I tend to err on the side of caution and prefer proper isolation by scoping servers (and other resources) to the method | 18:20 |
| ihrachys | mtreinish, yeah. for what I understood, the author also has pressing need to clean up VMs earlier because they test SRIOV and it's limited | 18:21 |
| ihrachys | just checking that we don't do anything silly | 18:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed openstack/governance master: Declare plainly the current state of Posgresql in OpenStack https://review.openstack.org/427880 | 19:49 |
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| dims | smcginnis : can't see you #openstack-oslo :) | 21:26 |
| dims | smcginnis : which one is better for tooz+etcd3/grpc-gateway support? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/466098/ or https://review.openstack.org/#/c/466109/ | 21:26 |
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| smcginnis | dims: So one would be a separate configurable option, the other would be one that automagically just works? | 22:15 |
| mordred | lbragstad: I just read the scrollback between you and sdague. I believe the scrollback describes my understanding of what we talked about in boston and hopefully is what I wrote in this spec | 22:15 |
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| mordred | lbragstad: the thing sdague said around POST /apikey/{id}/permissions {"region": "region1", "service_type": "compute", "method": "POST", "url": "/servers/{id}/action", "action": "snapshot"} is the bits I was gonna do in the next one - I may take a stab at writing that one next week - since even though it's a queens/rocky timeframe thing, it might help us to have a smidge of understanding of the shape | 22:17 |
| mordred | of that - at least broad strokes - while reviewing spec #1 | 22:17 |
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| smcginnis | dims: I'm usually against magic code, but in this case I think I like it. ;) | 22:18 |
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| smcginnis | dims: Especially given how similar the two are and how much duplicated code would result from separating them. | 22:19 |
| smcginnis | dims: Oh, just reading the comments now. I agree with mordred's assessment there. It really is an internal implementation detail I don't think we want to put on our users to understand and figure out. | 22:20 |
| mordred | smcginnis: yah. that's all of course pending making sure that any magic detection code is solid and not too magic | 22:21 |
| smcginnis | mordred: +100 | 22:21 |
| smcginnis | mordred: Can't only work on the first full moon of the winter solstice. | 22:22 |
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| mordred | smcginnis: huh. Dec 21 2010 apparently had a Full Moon on the Winter Solstice AND a total lunar eclipse | 22:23 |
| smcginnis | LOL! | 22:24 |
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| mordred | smcginnis: the next one is going to be in 2094 - and will ALSO be a lunar eclipse | 22:24 |
| mordred | smcginnis: so yah - I don't think that would be good for us to rely on | 22:24 |
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| smcginnis | mordred: I'll mark it on my calendar as the day most likely to get my code merged. ;) | 22:24 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:24 |
| smcginnis | Although if I'm still alive, I really hope I'm not waiting on code merges anymore. | 22:25 |
| mordred | smcginnis: in case you're wondering the last time a full moon + eclipse + winter solstice happened before 2010 was 1638 | 22:25 |
| mordred | so 2 in the same century is pretty remarkable | 22:25 |
| mordred | smcginnis: zomg. if I'm watching for code merges in 2094 something has gone terribly wrong | 22:25 |
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| smcginnis | mordred: I've clearly derailed any potential productivity. :D | 22:26 |
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| mordred | smcginnis: good! it's time for me to stop attempting to be productive anyway | 22:27 |
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| smcginnis | Yeah, probably about the right time of day for productivty to drop off. | 22:28 |
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