17:01:05 <sarob> #startmeeting training-manuals
17:01:06 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Jun  2 17:01:05 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:07 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:01:10 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals'
17:01:14 <sarob> roll call
17:01:26 <dguitarbite> hello
17:01:30 <dguitarbite> im here
17:01:44 <sarob> dguitarbite: evening
17:02:03 <sarob> rev morning
17:02:04 <rl> here
17:02:13 <sarob> welcome rl
17:02:14 <dguitarbite> good day
17:02:18 <rev> G'Day!
17:02:20 <dguitarbite> hi sarob, rl
17:02:37 <sarob> no colinmcnamra?
17:03:02 <sarob> okay lets start
17:03:21 <sarob> #topic action items from last meeting
17:03:29 <rev> FYI: I'm multitasking this meeting with a conference call at work. So if I seem incoherent... that's why. ;-)
17:03:54 <sarob> whew its alot of stuff
17:03:59 <matjazp> hi all
17:04:06 <sarob> hey matjazp
17:04:08 <sarob> welcome
17:04:12 <dguitarbite> hello
17:04:12 <sarob> just started
17:04:22 <matjazp> good... was a bit late
17:04:39 <sarob> #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_manuals/2014/training_manuals.2014-05-26-17.06.html
17:04:55 <sarob> dguitarbite: can you start with your actions
17:05:04 <dguitarbite> yes
17:05:25 <dguitarbite> reuse devstack -- https://blueprints.launchpad.net/devstack/+spec/training-labs
17:05:54 <dguitarbite> I will be working with rl to make training-labs reuse devstack as much as possible
17:06:12 <dguitarbite> mostly Training-Labs Devstack plugin will be the end result
17:06:46 <sarob> dguitarbite: cool
17:06:47 <rl> not sure it will work as a plugin, though.
17:07:08 <dguitarbite> rl: we need to collaborate with Devstack guys for this and decide
17:07:08 <rl> but devstack has a lot of functionality covered.
17:07:14 <rl> right.
17:08:08 <dguitarbite> agree
17:08:11 <matjazp> rl: but it will integrate current scripts, right? Vagrant and all that...
17:08:23 <rl> of course.
17:08:36 <rl> devstack would just be a helper inside the VMs.
17:08:37 <dguitarbite> action : track progress and update Associate and Operator Guide upto date
17:08:37 <dguitarbite> I have rough draft ready
17:08:43 <dguitarbite> but need some more time
17:08:45 <dguitarbite> for this
17:09:14 <dguitarbite> also I am working with guys from install-guide to offshore the installation section and keep the bare skeleton required with us
17:09:28 <sarob> dguitarbite: cool
17:09:54 <sarob> dguitarbite: remember to keep new training developers in mind
17:10:20 <dguitarbite> rest of the actions are covered -- vagrant box will be targeted once our scripts are ready
17:10:30 <matjazp> rl: so it will be based in DevStack.. what about regular install for operators guide?
17:10:34 <dguitarbite> and I need storage space for .ovs's
17:10:38 <sarob> dguitarbite: as we bring on new contributors, they likely will be non-developers, rather traditional creators of training materials
17:10:51 <rl> matjazp: can you elaborate?
17:11:13 <matjazp> rl: inside VMs... you intend to use DevStack scripts for openstack installation..
17:11:42 <rl> matjazp: is your concern the scripts or the results?
17:11:57 <dguitarbite> sarob: roger that, I will be keeping in mind new developers too.
17:12:20 <matjazp> rl: result... devstack is a bit different installation than "production" OpenStack
17:12:37 <dguitarbite> matjazp: agree
17:12:49 <dguitarbite> we will be trying to work around that while using Devstack scripts
17:12:57 <dguitarbite> *I agree
17:13:21 <rl> matjazp: devstack is just a helper for configuration, we won't install git clones.
17:13:29 <dguitarbite> since all of the basic stuff is already covered by devstack and it makes it very easy for us to support multiple releases
17:13:40 <rl> matjazp: just standard icehouse or whatever debs/rpms.
17:14:07 <matjazp> rl: oh, ok ..
17:14:18 <rl> devstack is pretty good at writing/editing config files etc.
17:14:31 <rl> or so it seems.
17:14:49 <dguitarbite> rl: it is pretty good for configuration
17:15:16 <sarob> rl, dguitarbite: all of your action items are good
17:15:53 <dguitarbite> yep
17:16:51 <sarob> im working on the training-manuals incubated plan
17:17:15 <dguitarbite> sarob: are we moving to stackforge?
17:17:49 <sarob> im going to discuss with the TC somemore of how they want to see the training project evolve
17:18:18 <sarob> tfifield is helping
17:19:06 <sarob> now i know a bit more of the path forward, i will start pushing for committments from our new contributors
17:19:23 <sarob> dguitarbite: maybe, maybe not
17:19:47 <sarob> dguitarbite: we may become a new project under the docs program
17:20:04 <dguitarbite> sarob: I would like the second one
17:20:13 <sarob> dguitarbite: me too
17:20:22 <sarob> dguitarbite: will be the least confusing
17:20:38 <sarob> dguitarbite: as long as we can start adding new core reviewers
17:20:39 <dguitarbite> yes
17:20:44 <sarob> dguitarbite: as soon as possible
17:21:04 <sarob> just me is not good
17:21:10 <sarob> as colinmcnamara is out of band right now
17:21:10 <dguitarbite> I agree
17:21:11 <rl> sarob: reviewing speed is a concern for the scripts, especially right now.
17:21:19 <matjazp> sarob: what is the time frame for all this (separate project under docs)
17:21:35 <sarob> rl is there any reviews pending?
17:21:53 <dguitarbite> sarob: we had to keep another repo for the time being since we cannot afford to wait till the scripts go through Git-Gerrit review process
17:21:57 <rl> sarob: nope. we ain't submitting because it would be too slow :-).
17:22:01 <dguitarbite> we will ofcourse push it
17:22:07 <dguitarbite> once the urgent work is done
17:22:25 <sarob> as long as you add me and colinmcnamara as reviewers
17:22:36 <sarob> ill get to it
17:22:45 <rl> there's also the problem that reviewers tend to ask for plenty of unrelated work added on top of a patch.
17:22:51 <matjazp> rl: is producing new versions of scripts faster than I can test them ;)
17:22:53 <rl> makes it difficult to move forward.
17:23:08 <dguitarbite> matjazp: can you give me your github ID?
17:23:57 <matjazp> dguitarbite: matjazp
17:24:34 <sarob> rl: that shouldnt happen
17:25:21 <sarob> we really need to start pushing our work into the training-manuals project rather than private repos
17:25:34 <rl> I was pretty lucky so far, but I've seen it happen quite often.
17:25:50 <sarob> without consistant contribution, we will not get incubated by the TC
17:26:04 <sarob> private repos will not count
17:26:16 <rl> sarob: is there a way to make review fast
17:26:28 <sarob> assign to me
17:26:35 <sarob> i am a core reviewer
17:26:43 <rl> dguitarbite: what do you think?
17:27:08 <dguitarbite> rl: I think the initial work may be done on another repo
17:27:09 <sarob> if it passes the tests, i can +2 it on
17:27:26 <dguitarbite> but once the basic backbone is in place
17:27:35 <dguitarbite> we should enforce pushing it on manuals
17:27:35 <rl> I don't think we have gate tests on training-manuals. do we?
17:27:42 <dguitarbite> rl: not yet
17:27:45 <dguitarbite> soon
17:27:56 <rl> great.
17:28:01 <dguitarbite> just XML thing that jenkins does
17:28:10 <rl> meh.
17:28:34 <dguitarbite> sarob: I proposed another repository as we had to share code via email which cannot beat VCS
17:28:36 <rl> It's a start, I guess. We should add some bash tests.
17:28:58 <dguitarbite> rl: we might re-use what devstack uses
17:29:00 <dguitarbite> bash8
17:29:01 <rl> Yeah, and gmail refuses *.bat files.
17:29:04 <dguitarbite> similar to pep8
17:29:05 <dguitarbite> :D
17:29:23 <matjazp> rl, dguitarbite: public repos also create more bug reports... and activity is visible, so it matters a lot for incubated projects
17:29:37 <dguitarbite> https://github.com/openstack-dev/devstack/blob/master/tools/bash8.py
17:30:02 <rl> Unfortunately, it's very, very basic. Shellcheck is quite a bit more advanced.
17:30:25 <dguitarbite> ok
17:30:41 <sarob> rl thats part of the reason for us to ask for a separate repo
17:30:49 <dguitarbite> sarob: true
17:30:51 <sarob> rl so we can add our own tests
17:31:11 <dguitarbite> rl: let us try to push the code on to training-manuals itselves
17:31:42 <rl> dguitarbite: fine. let me just clean up the worst bits.
17:31:52 <rl> i'll push in a couple of days.
17:31:52 <dguitarbite> ok
17:31:56 <sarob> dguitarbite, rl having the code to show contribution and how we are different from docs will be very important to the tc
17:32:06 <sarob> rl okay
17:32:29 <rl> it's going to be a rather massive code drop :-).
17:33:09 <sarob> rl can you break it up into sections
17:33:24 <sarob> rl 20 reviews will be much better than 1
17:33:25 <dguitarbite> rl: I will do the cleanups
17:33:38 <dguitarbite> rl: I will let you focus on the new version
17:33:44 <dguitarbite> since I know the old one properly
17:34:00 <rl> sarob: when you say sections, what do you have in mind?
17:34:17 <sarob> rl: ah, bad word.
17:34:18 <rl> sarob: chronologically, by directory, ...
17:34:24 <sarob> rl: functional parts of the code
17:34:38 <sarob> or pages
17:34:46 <rl> sarob: I guess I can sort of do that.
17:35:00 <rl> sarob: but there are lots of interdependencies.
17:35:13 <sarob> rl: a big dump, will get the other docs core reviewers involved
17:35:17 <rl> dguitarbite: thanks :-)
17:35:25 <dguitarbite> sarob: I agree
17:35:26 <sarob> rl and slow everything down
17:35:56 <sarob> rl small bits is good practice for review history too
17:35:59 <dguitarbite> also the new review guidelines specifically ask for each commit to have single task
17:36:13 <dguitarbite> so cleanups + adding new functional parts
17:36:17 <dguitarbite> wont be accepted
17:36:33 <rl> dguitarbite: all my patches were very much in that fashion.
17:36:49 <rl> dguitarbite: however, in this case, we are important a code base.
17:37:07 <dguitarbite> sarob: I will collaborate more with rl on this since there are many dependencies
17:37:17 <sarob> rl dguitarbite: we need to be good stewards of the CI as it will be verified by the TC as we ask to be incubated
17:37:20 <rl> s/important/importing/
17:37:30 <sarob> dguitarbite: sounds good
17:37:53 <sarob> lets move on
17:38:01 <dguitarbite> ok
17:39:12 <sarob> #action rl, dguitarbite will move the training infra work into the training repo in small chunks
17:39:36 <sarob> #action sarob will be discussing incubation steps with the TC this week
17:39:59 <sarob> #action sarob will update the incubation plan on the training wiki at the end of the week
17:40:12 <sarob> #topic other business
17:40:21 <sarob> whew
17:40:36 <sarob> what other business do we have
17:40:50 <sarob> moodle update?
17:41:06 <sarob> anyone from LPI here?
17:41:11 <matjazp> sarob: nothing new
17:41:24 <sarob> update on test question curation?
17:43:06 <sarob> i do want to discuss assigning sub-project leads
17:43:12 <sarob> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Training-guides#Project_Sub-Groups
17:43:37 <sarob> i propose five sub groups
17:43:48 <sarob> stable, development, testing, infrastructure, audio visual
17:44:29 <sarob> ill volunteer for the development sub-group lead
17:44:42 <sarob> any other volunteers?
17:45:36 <sarob> im happy to volunteer you ;)
17:46:13 <dguitarbite> sarob: wow, our project is maturing
17:46:22 <rl> I guess I could do infrastructure for the time being.
17:46:30 <dguitarbite> end of the beginning?
17:46:43 <sarob> dguitarbite: gotta grow up sometime
17:46:57 <dguitarbite> sarob: true, I agree with stable, development, testing, infra
17:47:07 <dguitarbite> I am not sure what will be covered in audio visual?
17:47:11 <dguitarbite> something like coursera?
17:47:17 <matjazp> sarob: ok... I can take testing
17:48:06 <sarob> matjazp: is for test questions, i was thinking moodle would fall under infra
17:48:07 <dguitarbite> lets put that under action
17:48:11 <matjazp> sarob: and adapting the materials for academic purpose
17:48:36 <sarob> matjazp: hmm, separate sub-group?
17:49:00 <sarob> matjazp: im good with that if you think it neccessary
17:49:10 <matjazp> sarob: maybe... I know I'll try to use all this stuff nex semester (Oct 2014)
17:49:43 <sarob> matjazp i was thinking that academic was just another audience
17:49:58 <dguitarbite> I will take up stable and infra. I believe that with the VirtualBox tools and Training Scripts I wont be doing much development
17:50:36 <sarob> matjazp that would need probably slides and more theory, but very similar to the rest of the audiences
17:50:54 <matjazp> sarob: could be... maybe also make a set of basic PPTs for reuse?
17:51:09 <dguitarbite> matjazp: I can help with making of PPT's
17:51:20 <sarob> matjazp up to you, right now maven makes html and pdf
17:51:25 <dguitarbite> I have existing PPT's which needs some basic touch ups
17:51:37 <dguitarbite> sarob: maven is good for ppt's
17:51:52 <dguitarbite> matjazp: do you want animation n stuff in your ppts?
17:52:14 <sarob> matjazp, dguitarbite: we have the outstanding plan to create the slidedeck mgmt app
17:52:21 <matjazp> dguitarbite: no, not right away
17:52:36 <sarob> okay so we have
17:52:41 <dguitarbite> sarob: kool
17:52:44 <dguitarbite> matjazp: ok
17:53:02 <dguitarbite> I got the basic PPT's that could act as kickstarter
17:53:05 <sarob> #action development sub-group lead sarob
17:53:28 <dguitarbite> #action stable sub-group lead dguitarbite
17:53:29 <sarob> #action rl, dguitarbite sub-group infra leads
17:53:59 <sarob> #action matjazp testing sub-group lead
17:54:08 <dguitarbite> leaves audio-visual
17:54:16 <sarob> #action audio visual lead TBD
17:54:19 <dguitarbite> I could help you guys with some music tracks ;)
17:54:32 <dguitarbite> for audio visual
17:54:40 <sarob> dguitarbite: maybe next time :)
17:54:53 <sarob> anything else people?
17:54:56 <matjazp> sarob: pics and diagrams are usually made when making PPTs
17:55:18 <dguitarbite> sarob: just kidding
17:55:34 <matjazp> sarob: is audio/visual subgroup necesarry?
17:55:50 <matjazp> sarob: could't that be just part of materials
17:55:59 <dguitarbite> matjazp: I guess after a while it would be brilliant gateway drug to heavier training stuff
17:56:37 <sarob> matjazp: maybe not. it is different enough skills and time put in.
17:56:53 <sarob> matjazp: i was thinking if we can land one or two AV people with no openstack experience
17:56:58 <dguitarbite> I agree
17:57:09 <dguitarbite> also we would suck at creating good AV stuff
17:57:14 <sarob> matjazp: i wanted them to work independently
17:57:23 <dguitarbite> I am talking about non-technical things
17:57:30 <dguitarbite> sarob: I agree
17:57:38 <sarob> matjazp: im terrible at it. i have tried.
17:57:48 <sarob> matjazp: different skill set
17:58:04 <matjazp> sarob: same here.. diagrams yes... movies/music.. nope
17:58:24 <dguitarbite> sarob: it will also be good point to differentiate us from manuals and present it to the TC
17:58:32 <sarob> matjazp: with stef and loic's training at the summit
17:58:38 <dguitarbite> matjazp: diagrams me too...
17:58:52 <sarob> matjazp: recording and putting on the openstack youtube channel would be the next step
17:59:12 <sarob> matjazp: you could take the raw video of your classes as well
17:59:28 <sarob> matjazp: forward to our AV team for prettying up
17:59:38 <sarob> just a thought
17:59:49 <sarob> our time is up
18:00:01 <sarob> see y'all in the funny papers
18:00:03 <dguitarbite> sarob: I got another meeting to attend
18:00:10 <sarob> #endmeeting