17:06:03 #startmeeting training-manuals 17:06:04 Meeting started Mon May 26 17:06:03 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:06:05 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 17:06:07 The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals' 17:06:24 so, anyone else besides dguitarbite and me? 17:06:30 roll call 17:06:52 #topic training-labs 17:07:08 right. have you seen the etherpad updates? 17:07:17 nope, link pelase 17:07:18 *please 17:07:31 have been really busy past couple of weeks 17:07:32 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/training-labs-scripts 17:08:09 whats your progress in training labs? 17:08:59 I implemented preliminary support for Fedora 20. 17:09:18 Just to see what it takes to support an rpm-based distro, too. 17:09:22 awesome 17:09:44 Host-side I have covered. 17:09:55 There are some issues, but I can work them out. 17:10:00 we could come up with some good way to reduce boilerplate for cross platform installation commands 17:10:08 Guest side is a different story. 17:10:12 did you patch them upstream? 17:10:52 Well, I submitted one detailed but report to Oracle about VirtualBox, but I have yet to hear from them. 17:11:05 what exactly seems to be the issue? 17:11:09 There's a work-around. 17:11:16 Oh, there's plenty. 17:11:36 just add them as info 17:11:43 #info Virtual Box issues 17:11:50 CDs not ejecting, consoles not displaying, kernels not updating, dkms not being installed etc. 17:11:56 lets try to see if we can hack our way around them 17:11:58 Most of it is fixed. 17:12:06 The real issue is guest side. 17:12:17 what is the guest side issue? 17:12:27 The cross-platform boilerplate stuff you mentioned, it exists. 17:12:39 That's what puppet and chef do, pretty much. 17:12:47 yeah, I know puppet can do that 17:12:49 And devstack does it, too. 17:12:53 but can we do that in shell scripts? 17:13:08 I started re-using some of the devstack libs. 17:13:20 Problem is, they are not designed to be used that way. 17:13:26 #action reuse devstack scripts in training-labs 17:13:38 #action figure-out puppet-openstack scripts for training labs 17:14:13 Also, I don't know what sort of distribution methods we want to support. 17:14:46 I think supporting Ubuntu and CentOS/Fedora should be enough 17:14:50 matjazp thinks the batch scripts for Windows are useful. 17:15:07 training should be kept as simple as possible by eliminating all the cross platform stuff 17:15:08 We can do Vagrant, of course. 17:15:22 batch scripts for Windows? 17:15:29 I didn understand this 17:15:36 do you mean PowerShell commands? 17:15:46 *Powershell Scripts 17:15:48 I wish. Old Windows shell. 17:15:54 Let me explain: 17:15:58 ok 17:16:32 The install scripts run on Linux or Mac. 17:16:49 sarob: hello 17:16:51 While they run, they can write a batch file that will do the same thing on Windows. 17:16:59 Sorry about that 17:17:07 No need for Vagrant or ssh. 17:17:09 rl: do we need that? 17:17:26 no one uses Windows server as base OS for OpenStack deployments 17:17:31 That is exactly one of the questions I asked (also mentioned on the etherpad). 17:18:00 we need to eliminate complex stuff and try to make it simple 17:18:05 Agreed 17:18:45 sarob: show must go on ;) ... no issues we were discussing Training-Labs blueprint hoping that you will join in :) 17:18:54 Thanks 17:19:22 Keeping the assoc and oper guides up to date is critical 17:19:40 Can you take lead on that? 17:19:56 yes 17:20:08 I'll focus on getting help from intel and comcast? 17:20:08 I will do that 17:20:11 #action dguitarbite track progress and update Associate and Operator Guide upto date 17:20:14 :) 17:20:47 I might me able to convince my new employer to give me some resources for this 17:20:55 #action sarob get assoc and oper contributors from comcast and intel 17:20:57 but I should be able to do it regardless of their support 17:21:18 Do what you can 17:21:39 If I can get a few training devs 17:21:57 Then we will be in good shape 17:22:27 Then I can work with stef tom loic on develop guide 17:22:36 ok 17:22:49 I am going to come up with OpenStack Koans 17:23:06 I have approached some of the online python tutorial designers 17:23:08 sorry, misclicked. 17:23:23 matjazp found the Windows shell scripts useful, because many students have Windows on their machines. 17:23:27 to discuss how to design Dev. Training Labs 17:23:34 Cool 17:23:46 rl: using VirtualBOx should be better on Windows Machiens 17:23:48 Show them the Dev design off wiki 17:23:49 *machines 17:24:11 dguitarbite, better than what? 17:24:24 better than just running the scripts on windows directly 17:24:36 also you can emulate multi-node and cool stuff 17:24:44 on single machine 17:24:54 Oh, the scripts just do what they do on Linux. They set up a training cluster in VirtualBox VMs. 17:25:04 We should consider prebuilt as well 17:25:16 rl: ok, then its fine 17:25:18 sarob: yes 17:25:25 rl: who will maintain these scripts? 17:25:35 Scripts for DIY and ready made ubuntu VMs 17:25:53 sarob: DIY? 17:26:01 Do it yourself 17:26:05 good question. host-side, there shouldn't be much maintenance necessary, once they work. 17:26:08 ok 17:26:17 We should assume trainers 17:26:26 the real work is going to be one the guest side. 17:26:41 sarob: is it feasible to rely on trainers? 17:26:46 every OpenStack release, every operating system you want to support. 17:26:49 Will not be scripters 17:26:58 rl: guest side, we have to try n re-use devstack and puppet-openstack 17:27:01 For training? 17:27:27 sarob: usually trainers may not get the time and funding for working on scripts 17:27:42 sarob: unless you can convince someone like Hastexo 17:27:49 who do it really well 17:28:04 We agree 17:28:17 We publish scripts 17:28:43 But assume first choice to use trainer VMs 17:28:44 sarob, can I also point you to the etherpad and ask you to add any comments, thoughts, questions you may have? 17:28:48 https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/training-labs-scripts 17:28:55 That are result of scripts 17:29:32 sarob: the scripts can produce a three-node OVA right now. 17:29:44 one image, three VMs with shared COW disks. 17:29:58 Hmm, not bad 17:30:02 (well, base disk is shared, the COW disks obviously not) 17:30:11 I can maintain the pre-built images 17:30:17 but were do we upload them? 17:30:47 matjazp offered to host them for the time being. 17:30:56 #action dguitarbite figure out how to create vagrantbox for training-labs 17:30:59 rl: sounds good 17:31:20 may be we could get to a point where we provide these images as vagrantboxes 17:31:25 I can prob find dropbox space off infra 17:31:25 to make it really simple 17:31:34 sarob: sounds good too 17:31:58 Use matjazp space for now 17:32:21 ok 17:32:26 rj add etherpad link to wiki 17:32:36 Good stuff 17:32:52 #action dguitarbite create MultiNode/Single Node ova's for Havana/IceHouse release 17:33:38 sarob: Associate and Operators is still on Havana? 17:33:47 sarob, I added it to the training-labs blueprint. I didn't find a training-labs wiki page. Only training-manuals. 17:33:48 or have we ported it to Icehouse ? 17:34:03 rl: training-manuals will do for now 17:34:13 dguitarbite, Okay 17:34:39 #action sarob find trainer script vm results 17:35:20 #action sarob find trainer script vm results location for trainers to pull from 17:36:03 sarob: what's vm results? 17:36:44 rl VMs that result from script 17:36:55 A bit wordy 17:36:55 oh, okay. 17:37:26 sarob: deep thinker! 17:37:29 Wiki linked off blueprint to here #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Training-manuals 17:37:56 Wiki should link to all ideas and plans 17:38:26 I want n00bs to start at the wiki 17:38:33 #action dguitarbite, rl create training-labs wiki page based on training-labs blueprint 17:38:38 yep 17:38:42 ack 17:38:57 :) 17:39:31 So I had talks with comcast and intel 17:39:36 At the summit 17:39:55 Not the devs but those that would task the devs 17:39:55 how interested are they? 17:40:05 Seems very 17:40:31 hmmm... intel seems to be doing lot of processor optimization for OpenStack 17:40:32 I need to translate that interest into actual commitments 17:40:58 Intel is thrashing around to get involved 17:41:22 processor optimization for OpenStack? for real? what would they do? 17:41:30 I jam to aim them in direction that helps us 17:41:32 their input will be really valuable 17:41:42 I aim to aim 17:41:50 Damn spell chk 17:41:55 I would have jammed with you : 17:41:58 :| 17:42:04 well that two 17:42:15 Or too 17:42:59 rl: Im not sure how exactly they are doing processor optimization for OpenStack but may be they are making openstack core libs run better on their processors 17:43:40 I thought they were adding a Python interpreter into CPU microcode :-). 17:44:01 rl: that would be python optimization 17:44:21 rl: I cannot say much on this topic, I dont know much in this area 17:44:26 Python run faster would be okay, but speed was never a big issue for infrastructure usually measured in days 17:44:43 Hence my question. 17:45:04 Ovs and openflow however different issue 17:45:20 Right. 17:45:25 well, reducing overhead and other similar things make an attractive selling point and advantage over their competitors 17:45:34 Network flows both data and control plane speed a big deal 17:45:55 sarob: agree, or be ready for storms n congestions 17:46:07 Which intel is already battling broadcom 17:46:40 makes sense 17:47:01 Openstack we need to befriend intel folks and direct their energies for critical projects 17:47:10 Like training 17:47:20 Hear, hear. 17:47:30 Nova net neutron feature parity 17:47:40 Congress and the like 17:48:54 ok, and what about comcast? 17:49:14 They are deploying internally 17:49:27 Dev nfv 17:49:30 Both 17:49:38 Big push for them 17:49:52 They need to train their people 17:50:12 They want to own the training 17:50:29 Our approach allows them to do that 17:50:43 It will. 17:50:48 yeah, I am happy with the progress in Associate and Operators 17:50:56 they can tweak dev training to their needs 17:51:11 *as per their needs 17:51:21 I need to get another core reviewer 17:51:52 Spinning us off to separate project is prob the only way 17:52:50 * rl wonders if the scripts could be integrated with devstack 17:53:03 So that's the plan for this cycle 17:53:16 rl hmm, that's a good idea 17:53:23 The big remaining issue is guest side scripts. I started looking into devstack, because it does a lot of the heavy lifting (installing and configuring OpenStack components). 17:53:28 rl, may be ... but I dont think so 17:53:46 we need to use devstack and may be use it as a submodule 17:54:02 My favorite solution is for devstack to accept patches that make it easier to use part of their stuff as a library. 17:54:15 I leave to you guys to figure it out 17:54:23 sarob: ok 17:54:24 I trust you 17:54:32 rl: lets sit this weekend and discuss this out properly 17:54:55 sarob: :) 17:55:15 #action sarob publish training-manual incubated plan 17:55:16 Okay. I'll send you the scripts towards the end of the week so you'll know what we are talking about. 17:55:28 Me run now 17:55:37 me too 17:55:38 Thanks you guys! 17:55:41 its getting late here 17:55:57 nice talking to you guys, have fun 17:56:04 #endmeeting 17:56:45 #endmeeting