14:00:35 <sarob> #startmeeting training-manuals
14:00:35 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Nov 26 14:00:35 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:36 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00:38 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals'
14:00:50 <sarob> Morning
14:00:54 <colinmcnamara> Morning
14:01:03 <colinmcnamara> Waaaaaaay early morning
14:01:28 <sarob> Who else we got ?
14:01:32 <alagalah> hi
14:01:32 <dguitarbite> hello
14:01:51 <sarob> Sweet
14:01:52 <dguitarbite> Morning
14:02:00 <sarob> Morning
14:02:00 <colinmcnamara> Hi prahnav
14:02:15 <dguitarbite> Hi colin sean
14:02:40 <sarob> Soooo, topics?
14:02:51 <colinmcnamara> Yeah
14:03:09 <colinmcnamara> Cards /.tasks
14:03:32 <sarob> Yup anyone else?
14:03:33 <colinmcnamara> So I'm back in USA. Log on to burn some cards
14:03:46 <colinmcnamara> Not exactly sure what tasks are next
14:03:46 <alagalah> Well I did say hi
14:03:49 <colinmcnamara> In trello
14:03:50 <alagalah> ???
14:04:00 <colinmcnamara> Morning Keith
14:04:11 <alagalah> Morning
14:04:14 <sarob> Hmm uessss
14:04:30 <sarob> Hey there
14:05:17 <alagalah> I only see one Doing card, is that right?
14:05:56 <sarob> I've got conversion, restructure, assoc and oper rough draft dates
14:05:57 <dguitarbite> yes
14:06:13 <colinmcnamara> But specific task
14:06:23 <colinmcnamara> Eg redesign diagram card
14:06:50 <colinmcnamara> Specific card would be. Redesign diagra. 1.1 I gdraw
14:06:52 <colinmcnamara> Etc
14:07:01 <sarob> #topic cards status
14:07:07 <alagalah> Card#145?
14:07:13 <colinmcnamara> Specific, measurable. Actionable
14:08:29 <colinmcnamara> Are the specific tasks still in the gdoc?
14:08:37 <dguitarbite> I think so
14:08:50 <dguitarbite> I dont see a specific card deck here
14:09:59 <colinmcnamara> K, so it sounds like an action item that is open after the restructure is to build the open tasks out of the gdoc into trello so we ca. Track
14:10:15 <colinmcnamara> Sarob is that accurate?
14:10:27 <colinmcnamara> If So I can sign up to do that
14:10:33 <sarob> Yeah, the gdraw was a good restart
14:10:57 <sarob> But we have moved way past it being useful
14:11:02 <colinmcnamara> Is the gdoc up to date?
14:11:36 <sarob> The diagram you speak of?
14:11:44 <alagalah> Does gdoc == gdraw ?
14:11:52 <colinmcnamara> I was just using that as an example
14:11:53 <dguitarbite> yes
14:11:57 <dguitarbite> gdoc == gdraw
14:12:01 <dguitarbite> got the link?
14:12:08 <alagalah> ack, sarob shared
14:12:28 <colinmcnamara> I logged on last night to burn some cards.  And could not identify easily specific taks
14:12:31 <sarob> Hold on
14:13:03 <colinmcnamara> #action colinmcnamara to build trello tasks out of current gdoc
14:13:41 <colinmcnamara> Doh  meetbot command ?
14:16:21 <colinmcnamara> I just put that as a task into trello and assigned it to myself
14:16:35 <sarob> #action colinmcnamara to build trello tasks out of current gdoc
14:16:49 <sarob> Yup
14:17:15 <colinmcnamara> If someone can post the link in the meeting notes
14:17:30 <colinmcnamara> Or put it on a card in the trello board
14:17:34 <sarob> But member the diagram was a rough start
14:17:42 <sarob> I'll post the link
14:18:04 <colinmcnamara> Diagram was just an example
14:18:54 <sarob> Right the real detail steps need to be in trello
14:19:00 <colinmcnamara> Yup.
14:19:16 <colinmcnamara> That also allows us to measure / estimate progress
14:19:31 <sarob> Ready to move on?
14:20:00 <sarob> #topic rough draft due dates
14:20:23 <colinmcnamara> You
14:20:25 <colinmcnamara> Yup
14:20:47 <sarob> I'd like to publish the associate guide to Havana by Friday
14:21:06 <sarob> Without quizzes
14:21:34 <sarob> How do you guys feel about that?
14:21:50 <colinmcnamara> Just for a sanity check, since the is not visibility of remaining tasks in trello
14:22:08 <sarob> Ehh?
14:22:16 <colinmcnamara> How much is outstanding right now? (Again, only 24 hours back in my office)
14:22:30 <sarob> The queens English if you please sir
14:22:41 <colinmcnamara> I can't comment on publishing by Friday without w work estimation
14:22:48 <sarob> Cards?
14:22:59 <colinmcnamara> Yeah how many hours of work left
14:23:06 <sarob> Ahh okay
14:23:49 <sarob> Well I see about 8-9 cards referencing assoc guide
14:23:59 <colinmcnamara> In the gdoc?
14:24:10 <alagalah> Where?
14:24:13 <sarob> But that's diff that ready enuf to publish to Havana
14:24:32 <sarob> Cards on trello
14:24:40 <alagalah> sarob: 8-9 cards but across what states ?
14:25:07 <sarob> In the sprint backlog
14:25:15 <alagalah> ah
14:25:17 <colinmcnamara> Ok, have we groomed that?
14:25:28 <colinmcnamara> Eg virtual box for windows.
14:25:40 <colinmcnamara> Is that outstanding. Pushed. Done?
14:26:06 <alagalah> I see 7 cards in the Sprint directly related to Quizzing... .so if you filter those out...
14:26:29 <colinmcnamara> I assume that there are more tasks in the gdoc
14:26:40 <dguitarbite> virtual box in windows is outstanding
14:27:00 <colinmcnamara> And we basically have one workday left this eek
14:27:02 <colinmcnamara> Week
14:27:10 <colinmcnamara> With the holidays
14:27:45 <colinmcnamara> In. Short, I don't have enough info to say whether we can publish by Friday
14:27:49 <sarob> Stuff outstanding right but is enough done for the associate guide to be published
14:28:08 <colinmcnamara> K
14:28:11 <alagalah> Firstly, is the gdraw definitive of the course structure?
14:28:19 <alagalah> ie is it finished?
14:28:24 <sarob> I think so
14:28:48 <alagalah> Ok, comments:
14:29:06 <alagalah> I see references to bk002-Chxxxx and I see references to cardyyy
14:29:40 <alagalah> My assumption is then that anything cardyyy has not been contributed up to the project... is that fair? If so then the immediate task would be to convert cardxxx in gdraw to bkyy-chzzz and merge, right?
14:29:42 <alagalah> Then publish ?
14:30:30 <sarob__> #link https://docs.google.com/a/yahoo-inc.com/drawings/d/1ju78O-PjkZIeSbpGkUndIohQeQy06QXseRPbCy2F6F8/edit
14:30:56 <alagalah> Ack that is the link I am looking at, assume you are putting it in here for the log
14:31:00 <colinmcnamara> Weird. That just asked me for a yahoo corp login
14:31:43 <sarob> Yeah hold on
14:32:50 <sarob> Pranav, Colin, Peter, Keith all have access
14:33:02 <sarob> Rick too
14:33:19 <colinmcnamara> Cool. I'm on my ipad on limechat. I'll log I
14:33:29 <colinmcnamara> On with Mac and check
14:33:30 <alagalah> Yes I didn't have an issue since the original share, still linked in my gdocs account
14:33:45 <colinmcnamara> It's waaay early. In in bed for this meeting
14:33:52 <colinmcnamara> K
14:34:01 <sarob> I added a bit to the diagram
14:34:05 <alagalah> ha, I got up early to help Florian but he has work work
14:34:22 <alagalah> sarob: Since last I looked, thats an understatement
14:34:38 <alagalah> sarob: So is my assumption correct, cardxxx on diagram needs content merged?
14:35:21 <sarob> Not neccessarly
14:35:34 <alagalah> Right
14:35:40 <alagalah> Card039 as a prime example
14:35:45 <sarob> Diagram is a mess of notes and ideas
14:35:55 <alagalah> IT's awesome but....
14:36:13 <alagalah> If you want to use it as a quasi "What do we have todo" to make trello cards and punch out docs by Fri...
14:36:26 <alagalah> I'm just finding a way of easily seeing what needs to be done
14:36:41 <colinmcnamara> +1
14:37:14 <sarob> I think we need to start reading the guide to verify if it is readable
14:37:15 <colinmcnamara> Btw, I normally don
14:37:33 <colinmcnamara> Don't put deadlines right after holidays
14:37:39 <alagalah> So should an action be to mark the gdraw in some way, either by "card" in the title needing a card, and bkxx being done, and then burn down cards and punch out a doc for readability ?
14:37:43 <colinmcnamara> They normally slip
14:38:01 <colinmcnamara> Sounds fair
14:38:55 <sarob> Let's take a step back for a sec
14:39:35 <sarob> Does everyone think the new structure is goodness?
14:39:54 <sarob> As on master right now
14:40:11 <colinmcnamara> Breaking the operational tasks out first?
14:40:25 <colinmcnamara> Is that what you are referencing?
14:40:40 <sarob> The structure I speak of
14:41:23 <sarob> chapter to sections
14:41:31 <sarob> As published
14:42:01 <colinmcnamara> ?
14:42:08 <sarob> From the diagram
14:42:33 <colinmcnamara> I need to head down stairs and hop on my laptop. I'm on my ipad in bed
14:42:41 <colinmcnamara> To reference the diagram
14:43:20 <sarob> I think everyone needs to take a quick look at the associate and operator guides online
14:43:45 <sarob> I was busy this last few weeks
14:44:30 <sarob> I created the chapter to section structure from the diagram
14:44:32 <alagalah> Sarob: see unicast window, issue building since I re-imaged machine
14:45:09 <sarob> Ehh?
14:46:09 <colinmcn_> logged on via laptop now
14:46:17 <sarob> I'm going to need coffee you get all techy
14:46:17 <alagalah> sarbo: nvm I'll work it out
14:46:42 <colinmcn_> so, associate guide structure
14:46:49 <colinmcn_> (sorry about the nic change, logged on via laptop)
14:46:57 <sarob> Right
14:47:05 <colinmcn_> so in short, associate and operator got split out
14:47:10 <colinmcn_> associate interacts with openstack
14:47:18 <colinmcn_> operator instlls / configures
14:47:34 <colinmcn_> associate is focused on a suer consuming, with tasks and quizes that break down into each functional task
14:47:49 <sarob> Yup, assoc has admin task, operator has install
14:47:59 <colinmcn_> yes, concept and structure are sound
14:48:33 <sarob> Plan was to use scripted virtualbox for both books
14:48:38 <colinmcn_> yup
14:48:49 <colinmcn_> though, I think past structure, there are some ops items still in associate
14:49:01 <sarob> Operator would do separate install tasks on diff VMs
14:49:16 <colinmcn_> operator is installing openstack on "bare metal"
14:49:31 <colinmcn_> associate is consuming openstack, launching instances, etc
14:49:34 <colinmcn_> correct?
14:49:38 <sarob> Yup
14:49:41 <dguitarbite> Operator is installing OpnStack
14:49:45 <dguitarbite> not necessary to be bare metal
14:50:09 <sarob> Ironic is not clear to me to include either
14:50:12 <colinmcn_> put quotes around it
14:50:14 <colinmcn_> sorry
14:50:18 <colinmcn_> virtual bare metal
14:50:20 <sarob> Okay
14:50:27 <sarob> Ahh okay
14:50:36 <colinmcn_> installing openstack on an operating system
14:50:44 <alagalah> Is this still the right repo? (should there be a link on the wiki?) https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals.git
14:50:57 <colinmcn_> vs instantiating instances, providing access, etc
14:51:08 <sarob> Alagalah right repo
14:51:08 <colinmcn_> yes, training-guide subdir
14:51:15 <alagalah> ty
14:52:07 <colinmcn_> btw, can you repost the link to the gdoc .. I switched computers and want to make sure i'm on the latest
14:52:20 <alagalah> https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1ju78O-PjkZIeSbpGkUndIohQeQy06QXseRPbCy2F6F8/edit
14:53:47 <alagalah> generating-sources now from a clean clone, so I'd love to have a look at all you've restructured, sarob, as that was your original RFC right?
14:54:04 <alagalah> sarob_
14:54:05 <sarob_> which rfc?
14:54:10 <alagalah> Request For Comment
14:54:29 <alagalah> You requested we comment about your restructure, hence... I'm rebulding now
14:54:30 <colinmcn_> thx
14:54:36 <sarob_> i know what it means, but what rfc are you referring to?
14:54:45 <sarob_> ahh, right
14:54:47 <colinmcn_> I do want to propose one topic before 7
14:54:48 <colinmcn_> btw
14:54:50 <colinmcn_> moving this back to 7 am pacific. 6am doesn't leave any prep time b4 the meeting
14:55:19 <sarob_> well there is another meeting at 7:30am pst
14:55:31 <colinmcnamara> Crap
14:55:43 <sarob_> schedule is all filled up
14:55:46 <colinmcnamara> Also. Good luck getting more contributors on
14:55:56 <colinmcnamara> 6 am meeting is a barrier
14:56:01 <colinmcnamara> My 2 cents
14:56:04 <sarob_> 9am pst monday is still open
14:56:08 <alagalah> East Coast :)
14:56:16 <sarob_> and 7am pst friday
14:56:38 <colinmcnamara> 9am Monday is better than 6 am any day
14:56:50 <sarob_> probably right
14:57:07 <sarob_> dguitarbyte does 9am pst work for you?
14:57:17 <colinmcnamara> Could always just create openstack-meeting-alt-2
14:57:53 <sarob_> should be 10:30pm in mumbai
14:58:10 <dguitarbite> k
14:58:18 <sarob_> lets not be guilty of that sin
14:58:26 <dguitarbite> thats a good time for me
14:58:38 <sarob_> okay cool
14:58:50 <sarob_> anyone else chime in on time?
15:00:45 <sarob_> #topic general free for all
15:01:06 <alagalah> Ok
15:01:10 <sarob_> #action sarob to reset meeting time for monday 9am pst
15:01:16 <colinmcn_> sweeet!
15:01:18 <alagalah> So I just finished the build, will have a quick look
15:01:31 <alagalah> I'm sure its gorgeous
15:01:41 <alagalah> What are we going to do about the gdraw?
15:01:54 <alagalah> I'm still not clear about how we make a gdraw-> trello compiler?
15:02:00 <alagalah> Meatscript seems simplest :)
15:02:00 <sarob_> its a brainstorming tool
15:02:19 <alagalah> I think its wonderful, it lays it out visually, which is perfect for me
15:02:25 <alagalah> I just want to know what specific thing I can help with
15:02:27 <sarob_> i went through the cloud admin and install guide
15:02:34 <colinmcn_> meatscripts are the tool to use
15:02:47 <sarob_> dumped what could go where into the digram
15:02:51 <sarob_> diagram
15:03:00 <colinmcn_> its a good visualization
15:03:09 <sarob_> then roughed out the structure
15:03:24 <sarob_> started making stuff
15:03:25 <colinmcn_> especially on my 27" monitors vs my 13" laptop
15:03:26 <colinmcn_> ;)
15:03:36 <sarob_> so the associate guide
15:03:45 <sarob_> it needs some clean up
15:04:06 <sarob_> but i think it is mostly complete for a rough draft
15:04:13 <colinmcn_> yeah, for rough draft
15:04:21 <colinmcn_> if rough draft = rc1
15:04:26 <sarob_> sure
15:04:32 <colinmcn_> I suggest, we do a rc1,2,3 structure
15:04:35 <dguitarbite> associate is complete for rough draft, I need to put up the install section as per OVS fixes and stuff
15:04:38 <colinmcn_> and gate bugs / features that way
15:04:52 <colinmcn_> so, rough draft = feature complete and squashing bugs
15:04:57 <sarob_> so we need some cards on associate guide review for publish
15:05:00 <colinmcn_> sounds like there are a couple features necessary
15:05:08 <sarob_> and another for publish to havana action
15:05:35 <colinmcn_> so, do we have concensus on mapping to RC1/2/3
15:05:47 <colinmcn_> and being strict about adding features vs squashing bugs?
15:05:52 <colinmcn_> thats a pretty big one
15:05:55 <dguitarbite> Yep, makes sense
15:06:22 <colinmcn_> so if rough draft equals feature complete (maybe with errors)
15:06:34 <colinmcn_> then we need to identify and prioritize any feature work
15:06:37 <colinmcn_> before we make the call
15:06:38 <sarob_> i am good with that
15:06:39 <dguitarbite> RC1/2/3 -- in sync with other projects as they are dependent on them
15:06:48 <sarob_> righto
15:06:53 <colinmcn_> normally the process
15:06:58 <alagalah> dguitarbite: What OVS fixes need to be incorporated?
15:07:01 <colinmcn_> h1/2/3, rc1/2/3
15:07:30 <dguitarbite> OVS 1.4 ships with Ubuntu 12.04, OVS 1.9 is needed for getting Neutron working properly
15:07:37 <dguitarbite> some fixes on that
15:08:12 <alagalah> Ah
15:08:14 <sarob_> The training-manuals team meets weekly on Monday at 1700 UTC on #openstack-meeting
15:08:19 <sarob_> posted
15:08:29 <colinmcn_> sweet
15:08:30 <colinmcn_> awesome
15:08:31 <sarob_> note not alt
15:08:35 <alagalah> dguitarbite: Yes, been going thru that hell with OVS on DevStack on Fed18
15:08:37 <colinmcn_> ahhhh
15:08:38 <colinmcn_> thank you
15:09:20 <sarob_> sanity check, we are going to lose the channel in 20 min
15:09:58 <colinmcn_> and I need to hop down to the dentist pretty soon
15:10:11 <alagalah> Sarob_ ...
15:10:14 <alagalah> Pretty
15:10:19 <sarob_> #action colin will rough out release dates
15:10:25 <sarob_> thx
15:10:35 <alagalah> welcome and well deserved... I love it in fact
15:10:50 <sarob_> cool
15:10:53 <alagalah> I will do a walk thru this weekend as if I'm an instructor, and no, I don't want that on the action items
15:11:11 <alagalah> I will report back if I got it done, I have a code freeze I have to meet on another proj
15:11:20 * sarob_ no action items whataaaaa
15:11:33 <sarob_> sigh okay
15:11:41 <alagalah> Sorry mate
15:11:52 <colinmcn_> sorry sarob, day jobs
15:12:02 <sarob_> lets all read through what is published
15:12:10 <alagalah> But the intention is there, if I can go through this as if I am teaching someone.... then it's a win... that is my goal...
15:12:36 <sarob_> we need to get the associate and operator guide to a point that an instructor and a student can follow them
15:12:40 <colinmcn_> yup
15:12:46 <colinmcn_> and that really comes from a dry run
15:12:54 <colinmcn_> with the students capturing bugs
15:13:05 <colinmcn_> it's easy to get tunnel vision
15:13:17 <sarob_> the cards should be mostly coming from that experience at this point
15:13:44 <colinmcn_> cool
15:13:48 <sarob_> lets cut this at that point
15:14:03 <sarob_> any last words of wisdoms
15:14:13 <colinmcn_> i'm good
15:14:19 <alagalah> Laters
15:14:25 <sarob_> colin needs his teeth drilled
15:14:33 <sarob_> i need coffee
15:14:34 <colinmcn_> :/
15:14:36 <colinmcn_> yup
15:14:37 <colinmcn_> sux
15:15:01 <sarob_> ive got interviews
15:15:03 <colinmcn_> time to adjurn
15:15:10 <sarob_> cheers all
15:15:15 <colinmcn_> endmeeting?
15:15:19 <sarob_> #endmeeting