15:04:59 <sarob> #startmeeting training-manuals
15:05:00 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Nov 19 15:04:59 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:05:01 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:05:04 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals'
15:05:07 <sarob> finally
15:05:55 <sarob> who's here?
15:19:38 <sarob> morning
15:20:13 <nermina> hi sarob
15:20:28 <rev> Howdy
15:21:33 <rev> @sarob: is this the official time for the OpenStack Training Dev IRC meeting
15:21:34 <sarob> hello all
15:21:47 <sarob> well it started at 7
15:21:51 <sarob> no prob
15:21:57 <sarob> just making coffee
15:22:02 <rev> Oh... yeah.
15:22:14 <sarob> colin is off having fun in the jungle
15:22:15 <rev> Coffee is why I was late.
15:22:26 <rev> That's my story ... and I'm sticking to it.
15:22:28 <sarob> morning nermina
15:24:22 <sarob> sooo
15:24:42 <sarob> ill go through the two main topics real quick
15:27:39 <sarob> #topic restructure
15:27:56 <sarob> #link https://docs.google.com/a/yahoo-inc.com/drawings/d/1ju78O-PjkZIeSbpGkUndIohQeQy06QXseRPbCy2F6F8/edit
15:28:22 <rev> ... need pemissions to access
15:29:16 <sarob> whats your gmail addr?
15:29:30 <sarob> or req through gdraw
15:29:34 <rev> revans
15:30:03 <sarob> yur in
15:30:42 <rev> thx
15:33:06 <rev> Suggestion: start small. Start with classes with 1-3 student BEFORE trying a class with 15 or more.
15:33:32 <rev> For example a small train-the-trainers event
15:34:42 <rev> Trainging is best when practiced. Your first three teaches are going to be rough, so don't waste the time of a lot of people by starting with large classes
15:35:00 <rev> In general By the fourth teach you will be golden
15:35:19 <rev> Ideally that's when you invite the hungry hoards
15:35:46 <rev> Think of training like a stage play. It will only be good after rehearsals.
15:37:39 <sarob> sounds like good planning to me
15:38:11 <sarob> sfbay hackathon is the training rough drive plan
15:38:40 <sarob> does the timing and limited content make sense for assoc?
15:40:20 <rev> Are you assuming there is hands-on work during the Assoc class (I hope so). from chart it looks just like lecture/quiz/lecture/quiz...
15:40:47 <rev> In other words are "labs" hands-on practice?
15:40:57 <sarob> administration tasks will be the hands on
15:41:03 <sarob> for associate
15:41:07 <sarob> that the plan
15:41:13 <rev> okay thanks.
15:41:43 <rev> Another reason to do training run throughs with small audience is to check timing.
15:41:45 <sarob> install and digging into files will be saved for the 10 day operator class
15:42:46 <rev> Typically the more you teach something the faster it will go. Example the class I used to barely be able to teach in 5 days, I now finish easily in 3 days.
15:43:09 <rev> ... after about a dozen teaches
15:43:14 <sarob> hmm, well we can always add more material
15:43:20 <rev> :-) yup
15:43:27 <rev> or teach more classes.
15:43:29 <rev> :-)
15:43:34 <sarob> sure
15:44:23 <sarob> so you think i have enough logical structure here to restructure the guides again
15:45:05 <sarob> im real eager to give him and some profs a chance to dig into the rough draft
15:45:11 <sarob> give you that is
15:45:27 <sarob> stupid radio
15:45:33 <rev> ?
15:46:03 <rev> Uh logical structure looks good to me
15:46:13 <rev> I need to dig in ... as you said
15:47:04 <sarob> i heard him as i was typing you, and typed what i heard
15:47:47 <sarob> im going to create a patch for the associate version of the gdraw today
15:48:05 <sarob> any experience with online testing sources?
15:48:32 <rev> Dumb question: If students are not installing OpenStack what will they use for hands on? Are you assuming they'll have a DevStack of their own? Or a pre-installed system ... like HPCloud or something from another benefactor... like Yahoo or Marantis?
15:49:40 <rev> I see setup scripts, not sure what that means ...
15:49:43 <sarob> we're going to use virtualbox install four node with scripts
15:50:17 <rev> okay. Script like VMTrooper was doing with DGuitartByte?
15:50:32 <sarob> right exactly
15:50:36 <rev> Got it.
15:51:29 <sarob> ever used an online testing service?
15:51:49 <rev> a little bit. Not lately.
15:52:12 <rev> You talking about proctored certification services?
15:52:49 <sarob> not proctored
15:53:00 <sarob> just online like moodle
15:53:47 <rev> Oh. moodle. Sure online quiz stuff ... more formally known as Learning Management Systems (LMS) ... pain in the ass to setup.
15:54:18 <sarob> yeah, id like to use surveymonkey
15:54:25 <rev> ... well ... more than online quizes... a proper LMS tracks a students process as they traverse a curriculum.
15:54:30 <sarob> it doesnt really work that way
15:54:55 <rev> I have studied moodle but not worked with it.
15:55:07 <sarob> can you figure out what we should use?
15:55:24 <rev> Okay ...
15:55:31 <sarob> that would be really helpful, cause i have never used any of them
15:55:56 <sarob> or experience with what is important
15:56:22 <sarob> dont kill yourself just your best guess
15:57:14 <sarob> surveymonkey, moodle, coursera, educity are the ones i looked at
15:57:30 <rev> Should I assume you want a cetnralize quiz systems that tracks students results, ... or do you want the local meetup folks to do the tracking?
15:57:47 <sarob> the former would be awesome
15:57:54 <rev> Okay
15:58:03 <sarob> it would help us improve the material
15:58:15 <sarob> if everyone is getting 100% or 0%
15:59:25 <sarob> time to go
15:59:46 <sarob> #endmeeting