20:00:07 <sarob> #startmeeting training-manuals
20:00:08 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Sep 16 20:00:07 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:09 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:11 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals'
20:00:18 <cmcnamara> colin here
20:00:38 <sarob> hello
20:00:45 <sarob> anyone else?
20:00:46 <cmcnamara> hello
20:01:10 <sarob> hmm, we need to change something
20:01:26 <sarob> you and i are the only cores showing up to the meetings
20:01:35 <cmcnamara> you think it is time?
20:01:44 <cmcnamara> what time is good for tristan
20:01:46 <cmcnamara> early or late?
20:02:16 <sarob> its 6am his time
20:02:26 <sarob> 1am pranav's time
20:02:50 <cmcnamara> so, no good for either
20:03:15 <sarob> mestery not interested anymore?
20:03:51 <cmcnamara> I know he is traveling this week
20:04:04 <sarob> well he has never shown up to a meeting
20:04:07 <cmcnamara> he has been in a crunch with Nuetron + ovsdb
20:04:08 <cmcnamara> yeah
20:04:15 <sarob> maybe he didnt know or remember
20:04:27 <cmcnamara> possible. I know he is super overcommited right now
20:04:29 <sarob> could really use a few more eyeballs
20:04:42 <cmcnamara> agreed
20:04:44 <sarob> on getting more committers
20:05:03 <cmcnamara> so, the perfect global time is 7:00 PM
20:05:16 <cmcnamara> syndney is 12 hours off
20:05:25 <cmcnamara> err
20:05:29 <cmcnamara> pune is 12 off
20:05:40 <cmcnamara> and sydney is +15
20:05:48 <sarob> right
20:06:13 <cmcnamara> not sure what pranav's work hours are
20:06:14 <sarob> est would kinda stink at +3
20:06:20 <cmcnamara> doh
20:06:21 <cmcnamara> good call
20:06:44 <sarob> but we have pst, and sydney, and india committers right now
20:06:55 <sarob> no europe or est or cst
20:07:29 <cmcnamara> building a time table right now to check for the witching hour
20:07:49 <sarob> 7pm pst would be 12pm sydney and 7-9am india
20:08:04 <sarob> would stink for europe
20:08:15 <cmcnamara> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20130916&p1=224&p2=179&p3=195&p4=240&p5=1038
20:08:17 <sarob> but loic is too busy right now
20:08:39 <sarob> slightly suck for cst and est
20:08:43 <sarob> but doable
20:09:02 <sarob> i like 7pm pst
20:09:22 <cmcnamara> I like too, but that kills our east coast guys
20:09:27 <cmcnamara> well, theoretical
20:09:31 <sarob> right
20:09:43 <cmcnamara> and when we get the beta out, there a bunch of users groups on the east coast
20:09:48 <sarob> lets worry about our aptira committers
20:09:49 <cmcnamara> including one in my office in alpharetta
20:09:56 <sarob> oh
20:09:58 <sarob> well
20:10:02 <sarob> err
20:10:09 * sarob sigh
20:10:13 <rev> The only solution we have found for teaching worldwide is to hold two meetings, typcially 7am and 7pm (Los Angeles)
20:10:24 <cmcnamara> 7am is better imho
20:10:42 <rev> 7am cover Americas and most of Europe
20:10:47 <rev> 7pm is for Asia
20:10:57 <cmcnamara> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2013&month=9&day=17&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=224&p2=179&p3=195&p4=240&p5=1038
20:11:07 <sarob> hmm, bad for sydney, but...
20:11:09 <cmcnamara> it is midnight in sidney
20:11:19 <cmcnamara> and evening in pune
20:11:35 <cmcnamara> made an assumption that prahpul is in pune
20:11:48 <sarob> pranav not sure
20:12:00 <sarob> he told me 12 hours ahead
20:12:44 <sarob> ill go over the agenda stuff real quick for the records
20:12:51 <cmcnamara> k
20:13:01 <sarob> #topic review action items from last meeting
20:13:15 <sarob> #info ACTION: sarob setup reoccuring hangout for thurs sfbay hackathons (sarob, 20:11:09)
20:13:29 <sarob> i havent figured that out yet
20:13:34 <cmcnamara> two ways
20:13:53 <cmcnamara> first way, is to create a google event
20:13:57 <cmcnamara> and then update when you launch
20:14:00 <cmcnamara> = sub optimal
20:14:01 <sarob> i can create a scheduled onair hangout event, but cant start it
20:14:05 <cmcnamara> second way
20:14:25 <cmcnamara> is set up a page with a redirect
20:14:35 <cmcnamara> even better
20:14:51 <cmcnamara> set up a page with a redirect and update it when you start the hangout
20:15:05 <sarob> right, i was going to do that
20:15:20 <cmcnamara> I was obviously experimenting with the sprint
20:15:56 <sarob> #action sarob create html 5sec refresh page with redirect to onair hangout URL
20:16:36 <sarob> where to put it....
20:16:52 <sarob> i can create a page on sarob.com
20:17:16 <sarob> like openstack-sfbay-hackathon.sarob.com
20:17:16 <cmcnamara> works for me. I can throw up a bunch of sites if you need
20:17:24 <cmcnamara> including sdnopencloud.net
20:17:27 <cmcnamara> l;)
20:17:50 <cmcnamara> sounds like a plan
20:18:04 <sarob> #url waytooopencloud.net
20:18:12 <cmcnamara> LOL = win
20:18:31 <sarob> #info ACTION: colinmcnamara will write up user groups, contacts, and status for reproducing sfbay training focused hackathons (sarob, 20:24:37)
20:19:26 <cmcnamara> no done yet
20:19:36 <cmcnamara> I captured some lessons learned from the sprint
20:19:43 <cmcnamara> e.g. jambox for hangouts
20:20:01 <cmcnamara> question. do you think I should throw it in the training guide
20:20:02 <sarob> my quickie list for next takers would be
20:20:08 <cmcnamara> or should I put it on the wiki?
20:20:21 <cmcnamara> so, vote for the training-guide?
20:20:29 <sarob> austin, seattle, LA, DC, new york, boston, sydney,
20:20:44 <cmcnamara> next takers = user groups?
20:20:51 <sarob> denver, minn
20:20:55 <sarob> yeah
20:21:08 <cmcnamara> when we have the beta ready to delivery, I also have the Alpheretta group ready
20:21:16 <sarob> NC?
20:21:19 <cmcnamara> I had one of my SE managers found it
20:21:26 <cmcnamara> Alpharetta is in GA
20:21:32 <sarob> oh right
20:21:32 <cmcnamara> outside of ATL
20:21:39 <cmcnamara> and then we have philly
20:21:48 <cmcnamara> my vote, we keep a short list for the alpha
20:21:51 <sarob> and pittsburg
20:21:51 <cmcnamara> and then expand for the beta
20:21:54 <cmcnamara> yes
20:22:00 <cmcnamara> Pyladies cross over
20:22:03 <sarob> okay this
20:22:21 <sarob> austin, LA, sydney for alpha
20:22:37 <cmcnamara> should we include SFbay?
20:22:42 <cmcnamara> or is that implicit
20:23:02 <sarob> ny, dc, boston, seattle, denver, atl, minn, philly, pitts
20:23:04 <sarob> beta
20:23:24 <sarob> right sf for alpha
20:23:36 <cmcnamara> I 2nd that vote
20:23:58 <cmcnamara> I want to have slides ready as a deliverable for the alpha though
20:24:03 <cmcnamara> as in, a techable course
20:24:05 <sarob> #info sf, austin, LA, sydney for alpha training rollout
20:24:27 <sarob> #info ny, dc, boston, seattle, denver, atl, minn, philly, pitts for beta training rollout
20:24:41 <sarob> slides right for alpha
20:25:06 <sarob> #topic docboot camp results
20:25:37 <sarob> seems like a year ago already
20:25:46 <cmcnamara> last week?
20:25:52 <sarob> yeah
20:25:55 <cmcnamara> it's been a long couple weeks
20:26:17 <sarob> im so glad i didnt go to linuxcon
20:26:23 <cmcnamara> me too
20:26:31 <sarob> id be sleeping right now in the hotel
20:26:37 <cmcnamara> exactly
20:26:41 <cmcnamara> so, results
20:26:54 <cmcnamara> are we combining docsbootcamp and sprint into this discussion?
20:27:11 <sarob> i was going to separate them but whatever
20:27:33 <rev> Problem with camp was I felt no structure. Success was I feel I finally got a feel for the OpenStack community.
20:27:41 <sarob> hey there
20:28:03 <cmcnamara> yes, I don't think there was much structure. Good or bad
20:28:08 <cmcnamara> I know this is the first one for Anne
20:28:17 <sarob> openflow :)
20:28:19 <rev> Suggest for next time have some state objectives that are measurable.
20:28:31 <cmcnamara> docs bootcamp
20:28:34 <cmcnamara> or sprint?
20:28:38 <rev> ... also good idea for your alpha and beta class
20:28:51 <rev> sprint problems were technical
20:29:16 <rev> i.e,, Maven not working OOTB
20:30:09 <rev> (out of the box)
20:30:23 <sarob> yeah, it was a mix of n00b and oldtimers
20:30:34 <sarob> doesnt work for structure
20:30:35 <cmcnamara> still on docsbootcame?
20:30:38 <cmcnamara> camp
20:30:41 <cmcnamara> I agree btw
20:30:47 <cmcnamara> but still, I got alot out of it
20:30:50 <sarob> me too
20:31:02 <cmcnamara> conversations with jim and david kramer were the top ones
20:31:05 <rev> agreed
20:31:08 <rev> good experience
20:31:18 <cmcnamara> the api doc discusion was valuable
20:31:21 <sarob> its still too fluid to expect structure i think
20:31:26 <cmcnamara> yes
20:31:53 <cmcnamara> want to formally discuss the sprint = areas to improve / lessons learned?
20:32:27 <sarob> #topic training sprint day 11sep results
20:32:34 <rev> suggest, debug process before meeting so participant have better chance at success
20:32:52 <cmcnamara> agreed
20:32:54 <rev> ... or it could've been my weird (i.e., Windows) box
20:32:59 <rev> :-)
20:33:05 <cmcnamara> well, I think there is a pre-sprint setup
20:33:10 <cmcnamara> so, attendees that join sprint
20:33:23 <rev> tell everyone to bring a Mac or Linux or dont bother. ;-D
20:33:24 <cmcnamara> will ideally have had one or two patches in
20:33:25 <sarob> this was the first time everyone was actually committing a page
20:33:30 <cmcnamara> we can coach before
20:33:38 <sarob> right
20:33:53 <sarob> mentor run through would have caught the bugs
20:34:07 <rev> right!
20:34:23 <cmcnamara> I think that is an action - create sprint prep document (I have that one)
20:34:34 <cmcnamara> #action colin to create sprinter prep guide
20:34:51 <sarob> #action cmcnamara  to create sprinter prep guide
20:35:06 <rev> Are there any test scripts to verify that Docs chain is setup correctly (locally)?
20:35:15 <cmcnamara> I feel that google hangout worked OK
20:35:29 <sarob> hangout was fine
20:35:31 <cmcnamara> setting up a speaker phone, or jambox to one laptop would have stopped the echo
20:35:38 <sarob> right
20:35:47 <cmcnamara> I have a jambox now, and google hangout can dial into a conference phone
20:36:22 <sarob> rev: i think the tools are so flaky that a script would be more work that just installing and debuging the tools
20:36:48 <cmcnamara> also, making sure to pre-coach sprint attendees
20:36:53 <cmcnamara> to make sure their workstations are set up
20:36:57 <cmcnamara> is a must
20:37:02 <cmcnamara> to make use of time
20:37:21 <sarob> we as mentors need to have more experience debuging build tools
20:37:29 <rev> agreed. More time spent on content the better
20:37:37 <cmcnamara> agree
20:37:37 <rev> .. i.e., not the process
20:38:05 <cmcnamara> that being said, we were able to get new commiters
20:38:20 <sarob> im hoping the updated commit instructions are a vast improvement
20:38:20 <cmcnamara> maybe there is something to be said to holding special hackathon day, just for setup
20:38:23 <cmcnamara> the week before a sprint
20:38:35 <rev> good idea
20:38:41 <sarob> well, that what i was doing at the hackathon
20:38:48 <sarob> i think at least
20:38:51 <rev> true
20:39:02 <cmcnamara> I was thinking, attendee checkbox
20:39:14 <cmcnamara> something we can do to help ease the process, and get focus on merging
20:39:21 <sarob> the hackathons should be all comers
20:39:25 <cmcnamara> agreed
20:39:35 <sarob> users of training, new committers without tools installed
20:39:36 <cmcnamara> I am differentiating between a sprint and a hackaton
20:39:47 <sarob> oldtimers committing, and mentors
20:40:06 <sarob> right, okay
20:40:53 <sarob> sprint should have only oldtimers committing , but we making oldtimer committers right now
20:41:17 <cmcnamara> I am just setting the expecations for sprint #2. We make sure to mentor new commiters the week before on the preocess
20:41:21 <sarob> by next sprint rev will be mentoring the n00b
20:41:22 <cmcnamara> so we can get 1:1 time with them
20:41:26 <cmcnamara> ;)
20:41:39 <rev> agreed... hopefully
20:41:40 <cmcnamara> and then during the sprint, we are focused on coordinating work
20:41:41 <sarob> agreed
20:42:04 <cmcnamara> I am being inclusive, just acknowleging that 1:1 time is necessary for an individual before a sprint
20:42:36 <sarob> #action pre-sprint hackathon at training user group locations focused on sprint readiness
20:43:35 <sarob> moving on?
20:43:58 <cmcnamara> yes
20:43:59 <sarob> #topic target date for associate guide rough draft publish
20:44:18 <sarob> we still have alot of work to do
20:44:54 <cmcnamara> yes, I think that it is a bit pre-mature to put a target date
20:45:02 <cmcnamara> I do think we need to start managing by a burn down chart
20:45:12 <cmcnamara> and at least get an estimate of work hours
20:45:55 <sarob> alpha training user groups will start with rough draft associate guide, right?
20:46:06 <cmcnamara> current burndown chart = 75 hours of work remaining
20:46:15 <cmcnamara> with an estimation of 1 hour per card
20:46:16 <sarob> sounds about right
20:46:36 <sarob> we should assume that the people we have involved are it for right now
20:46:48 <cmcnamara> yes,
20:46:57 <cmcnamara> on a positive note
20:47:00 <sarob> pranav, colin, sarob, rev, keith,
20:47:04 <cmcnamara> we are now actually burning down items
20:47:08 <sarob> five is good
20:47:16 <cmcnamara> vs increasing faster then we decrease in work
20:47:34 <cmcnamara> Summary stats
20:47:34 <cmcnamara> Total Cards: 	123
20:47:34 <cmcnamara> Remaining Cards: 	80
20:47:35 <cmcnamara> Done Cards: 	43
20:47:37 <cmcnamara> Percent of cards done: 	34.96%
20:47:39 <sarob> five is a good number to start with
20:47:39 <cmcnamara> Hours at start: 	73
20:47:41 <cmcnamara> Hours est total: 	93
20:47:43 <cmcnamara> Hours remaining: 	61
20:47:45 <cmcnamara> Hours done: 	32
20:47:47 <cmcnamara> Percent of hours done: 	34.41%
20:47:48 <sarob> cool
20:47:49 <cmcnamara> ----	----
20:47:51 <cmcnamara> Days Elapsed 	20
20:47:53 <cmcnamara> Daily Burndown 	1.6
20:47:56 <cmcnamara> Est. Days Left 	47
20:47:57 <cmcnamara> Est. Completion Date 	11/02/13
20:48:03 <cmcnamara> well, there you go. estimated completion 11/02
20:48:16 <sarob> ill start eating cards
20:48:39 <cmcnamara> doh, forgot to put hours on some cards
20:48:41 <cmcnamara> let me rerun
20:48:43 <sarob> =80/5
20:48:52 <sarob> hey dguitarbite
20:49:00 <sarob> excellent timing
20:49:26 <cmcnamara> updated project stats -
20:49:31 <cmcnamara> Summary stats
20:49:31 <cmcnamara> Total Cards: 	123
20:49:31 <cmcnamara> Remaining Cards: 	80
20:49:32 <cmcnamara> Done Cards: 	43
20:49:34 <cmcnamara> Percent of cards done: 	34.96%
20:49:36 <cmcnamara> Hours at start: 	61
20:49:38 <cmcnamara> Hours est total: 	123
20:49:40 <cmcnamara> Hours remaining: 	80
20:49:43 <cmcnamara> Hours done: 	43
20:49:44 <cmcnamara> Percent of hours done: 	34.96%
20:49:47 <cmcnamara> ----	----
20:49:48 <cmcnamara> Days Elapsed 	20
20:49:50 <cmcnamara> Daily Burndown 	2.15
20:49:53 <cmcnamara> Est. Days Left 	35
20:49:54 <cmcnamara> Est. Completion Date 	10/21/13
20:49:57 <cmcnamara> one important note, we have doubled the estimated effort from the start
20:50:56 <cmcnamara> url for burndown board - https://BurndownForTrello.com/share/9c3rfd2fu9
20:51:06 <sarob> 5 devs, 80 cards, 16 cards apiece
20:51:36 <sarob> doable
20:51:38 <cmcnamara> could go fast, could go slow. There is still some debugging time
20:51:43 <cmcnamara> but absolutely doable
20:52:42 <cmcnamara> Keith and I will be doing a mobile hackathon on tuesday
20:52:45 <cmcnamara> err thursday
20:52:50 <sarob> okay so lets target end of october for alpha release of associate training-guide to the alpha user groups
20:52:50 <cmcnamara> we are driving to the desert
20:53:06 <cmcnamara> I'd put some slack
20:53:10 <cmcnamara> but that is just me
20:53:24 <cmcnamara> give it a week
20:53:25 <sarob> summit is nov
20:53:30 <cmcnamara> that puts the alpha at the summit
20:53:54 <sarob> i think that month of debugging and feedback before the summit is critical
20:53:56 <cmcnamara> also with lots of the user group leaders there
20:54:13 <cmcnamara> summit is nov8
20:54:20 <cmcnamara> that is just a week after the end of october
20:54:21 <sarob> otherwise it will just be a bitch session on what is broken
20:54:38 <cmcnamara> ok, I'm just estimating time here
20:54:40 <sarob> ahh, of course
20:54:55 <cmcnamara> not trying to be pesimistic
20:54:56 * sarob brain flop
20:55:23 <cmcnamara> just trying to be aware that there are travel schedules, and day jobs
20:55:24 <sarob> really need to be done by the end of september then
20:55:39 <rev> two week!?
20:55:40 <cmcnamara> Sean, I don't think that is realistic
20:55:45 <sarob> me either
20:56:00 <cmcnamara> let's focus on tracking foward movement
20:56:11 <cmcnamara> and on keeping the burn down line sloping down
20:56:25 <sarob> okay, lets target the end of october
20:56:59 <rev> better
20:57:00 <sarob> week of debugging with austin, sf, and LA user groups
20:57:01 <cmcnamara> note, to hit that we really need to start engaging a larger audience
20:57:18 <cmcnamara> sean, you do need to remember that lots of people have day jobs too
20:57:28 <cmcnamara> for me lots of time it is nights and weekends
20:57:35 <cmcnamara> I spent most of this weekend working on this
20:57:58 <cmcnamara> I do need to get a couple releases out at work before Hong Kong or I'm in serious poop
20:57:58 <sarob> understood, this is my 120% time too
20:58:21 <cmcnamara> well, considering that this is 120% time. Let's focus on the burn down
20:58:33 <sarob> guess you could be in a sticky situation
20:58:42 <cmcnamara> everyone is at one point or another
20:58:44 <rev> Hint: Training is a lot like theater. Rehearsing is key. Rehearsing can prepare you to workaround bad content. Or at least know when to tap dance.,
20:58:52 <cmcnamara> agreed
20:58:55 <cmcnamara> that's why
20:59:01 <cmcnamara> my suggestion is to keep a sane pace
20:59:06 <cmcnamara> let's focus on a burn down
20:59:10 <cmcnamara> when the alpha is ready
20:59:11 <sarob> got it
20:59:15 <cmcnamara> let's get the users group input
20:59:27 <cmcnamara> and then plan the alpha
20:59:44 <sarob> so target end of oct for alpha release, week of debugging, review at summit
20:59:46 <cmcnamara> we'll have better luck planning a specific release date when we are at about 20% cards left
21:00:04 <cmcnamara> gut feel Sean, is that the dates are arbitrary right now
21:00:14 <cmcnamara> my spidey sense is going off
21:00:22 <sarob> yeah, i like having something to drive to
21:00:25 <cmcnamara> again my focus - increasing the burn down rate
21:00:31 <cmcnamara> feel free to drive to it
21:00:31 <sarob> got it
21:00:43 <cmcnamara> if we focus on increasing our average burn down rate
21:00:49 <cmcnamara> it will bring in the release date more then anything
21:01:01 <cmcnamara> average daily burn down is 2.15 cards
21:01:07 <sarob> yup, ill see what i can get done this week
21:01:10 <cmcnamara> if we double that rate, we bring in the release by a month
21:01:18 <cmcnamara> we can do that by expanding our commiters
21:01:24 <cmcnamara> or by making the process easier
21:01:31 <cmcnamara> or by working harder
21:01:38 <cmcnamara> i'm up for all 3
21:02:31 <sarob> roger that, ill work on all three
21:02:58 <sarob> review the new instructions guys, and update if needed
21:03:17 <sarob> i have one of my many bosses bugging me, gotta go
21:03:29 <cmcnamara> vote for adjurned
21:03:34 <cmcnamara> adjourned that is
21:03:54 <cmcnamara> #end-meeting
21:04:01 <sarob> #action no target date for alpha training-guide until closer to completion
21:04:17 <sarob> you cant do that ;)
21:04:23 <cmcnamara> I tried
21:04:24 <sarob> #end-meeting
21:04:33 <cmcnamara> apparently you can't either ;)
21:04:36 <sarob> #endmeeting