08:02:27 <anteaya> #startmeeting third-party
08:02:28 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Jun  2 08:02:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
08:02:30 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
08:02:32 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'third_party'
08:03:02 <anteaya> hands up if you are here for the third party meeting
08:03:06 <lennyb> up
08:03:20 <anteaya> hello
08:04:12 <lennyb> there is an issue I would like to discuss or at least note. regarding http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/065367.html
08:04:30 <anteaya> please continue
08:06:15 <anteaya> please continue
08:06:17 <lennyb> I've discussion with infra this morning and it seems like zuul missing feature/bug. The root cause of this empty comments that Dan complains about and jogo asked to disable our account last time
08:06:41 <anteaya> the part that is the problem is that you aren't in -nova
08:06:51 <lennyb> is that we are filtering out files that is 'not interesting' to us, but zuul still makes a comment.
08:06:59 <anteaya> even now you are not in the #openstack-nova irc channel
08:07:10 <anteaya> and you aren't monitoring your own system
08:07:32 <anteaya> dansmith has no problem about your ability to address your account when someone posts to the email list
08:07:39 <lennyb> i know, infra guys asked me to discuss this here as well since they have similar issues
08:07:49 <anteaya> the problem is that you aren't paying attention to your own account unless someone does
08:08:06 <anteaya> a third party operator has similar issues
08:08:15 <anteaya> but they are not in the same boat as yourself
08:08:36 <anteaya> which is about to have your account permanently banned from nova
08:08:48 <lennyb> those comments went directly from zuul without triggering Jenkins. Since this was not failure I did not monitor it
08:08:56 <anteaya> because you are not in the #openstack-nova channel, you don't attend nova irc meetings
08:09:07 <anteaya> noone knows who you are
08:09:12 <anteaya> and they are tired of your account
08:09:26 <anteaya> you have to monitor your system, period
08:09:33 <lennyb> i see
08:09:45 <anteaya> and you have to be in the irc channels for the projects you expect to test
08:09:51 <anteaya> and you have to attend the meetings
08:09:57 <anteaya> and people need to know who you are
08:10:06 <anteaya> and need to see you care about your system
08:10:13 <anteaya> because right now, they don't see that
08:10:33 <lennyb> i see
08:10:44 <anteaya> while zuul may behave in a way you didn't expect, that isn't zuul's fault
08:10:54 <anteaya> the tools always do random things
08:11:07 <anteaya> it is your responsiblity to be aware of this
08:11:13 <anteaya> by monitoring your system
08:11:28 <anteaya> and having strong communication ties with the various projects you test
08:13:11 <anteaya> well at least now you are in -cinder, -neutron and -nova
08:13:35 <anteaya> you need to set up an irc bouncer so that people can send you messages when you are not online
08:14:00 <lennyb> btw, moshele is there and we are siting in the same room :)
08:14:05 <anteaya> and you need to read logs and backscroll daily to understand what people are talking about
08:14:11 <anteaya> who is moshele?
08:14:22 <anteaya> and why is that person not in this meeting with you?
08:14:47 <anteaya> they aren't even in this channel
08:15:40 <anteaya> the co-ordinated presence of your company could use some co-ordination
08:15:58 <anteaya> and if they don't listen to you if you tell them that, send them to me
08:15:59 <lennyb> He is one of the developers in nova and neutron projects
08:16:07 <anteaya> and with your company?
08:16:08 <moshele_> anteaya: hi
08:16:15 <anteaya> moshele_: hello
08:16:28 <anteaya> moshele_ lennyb the two of you need to work together better
08:16:45 <anteaya> and the people in the projects you expect to test need to know you work together
08:17:02 <anteaya> and if that is a problem you need to send someone who can hear me to these meetings
08:17:06 <moshele_> anteaya: I am sorry it wasn't clear
08:17:14 <anteaya> as you are about to have your account banned in -nova
08:17:31 <anteaya> so this isn't just a matter of getting your ci account fixed
08:17:45 <anteaya> you have to present a useful and available presence to the projects
08:17:56 <anteaya> and so far, that effort has been lacking
08:18:08 <anteaya> moshele_: do you read backscroll in the channels you are in?
08:18:40 <moshele_> anteaya: no I have not
08:19:05 <moshele_> anteaya: we are not comment in nova now
08:19:18 <anteaya> moshele_: that isn't the point
08:20:08 <anteaya> read this log
08:20:12 <anteaya> #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra/%23openstack-infra.2015-06-01.log.html#t2015-06-01T18:01:15
08:20:26 <anteaya> and the conversation is between dansmith and anteaya
08:21:23 <anteaya> tell me when you have read it
08:23:59 <moshele_> anteaya:    ok I read it  also I was in the summit and meet dansmith
08:24:11 <anteaya> moshele_: well then you need to talk to him
08:24:28 <anteaya> what do you understand from reading the email sent to the list as well as this log?
08:24:30 <moshele_> anteaya: I also talked regarding the CI in the summit
08:24:45 <anteaya> moshele_: it didn't seem to do you much good
08:24:58 <anteaya> as he is prepared to ban you
08:25:04 <anteaya> ban your account that is
08:25:46 <anteaya> so dispite your efforts you still don't seem to understand what is expected of a third party ci account
08:26:08 <anteaya> and I'm frustrated since I have been trying for many months to provide that information
08:26:26 <anteaya> so where do we not have the understanding that we need
08:26:53 <anteaya> because I have tried to provide information consistent with meeting -nova expecations
08:27:33 <anteaya> and that doesn't seem to have gotten across to whatever combination of yourself and lennyb
08:28:18 <anteaya> do you dismiss what I'm telling you?
08:28:23 <anteaya> or does your management?
08:28:58 <moshele_> anteaya: I agree we need to improve or monitoring for the CI
08:29:11 <anteaya> you need to improve your relationship with the community
08:29:27 <anteaya> if you can't repair that working on your CI is pointless
08:29:30 <moshele_> anteaya: also I will be  in the nova meeting as well
08:29:36 <lennyb> and improve my irc meeting
08:29:38 <anteaya> can you hear me?
08:29:42 <anteaya> at all?
08:30:18 <anteaya> you need to take steps to fix this situation with nova developers
08:30:27 <anteaya> just showing up in a meeting won't do it
08:30:51 <anteaya> I really feel like I'm not getting through to you
08:31:02 <anteaya> and it isn't for lack of being available to talk to you
08:31:16 <anteaya> nor for trying to bring your attention to what you need to prioritize
08:32:41 <eantyshev> Hi! Can we discuss that initial problem of zuul? many CIs are setup to run functional checks on doc/test changes, which is wrong IMHO
08:32:46 <anteaya> I feel you are resisting engaging in the relationship you need to engage in to fix this
08:32:54 <moshele_> anteaya: I am active in the nova and neutron irc I will improve the relationship with the community
08:32:56 <anteaya> and I can't at all understand why
08:33:07 <anteaya> moshele_: well either you will or you won't
08:33:30 <anteaya> but dansmith has made it clear that if you don't, he isn't interested in seeing your account inferface with nova
08:33:50 <anteaya> eantyshev: hello
08:34:13 <anteaya> if zuul is behaving in a way that is contrary to your expectations you are welcome to file a bug
08:34:37 <anteaya> eantyshev: but keep in mind any behaviour by tools in no way absolves you of taking responsibility for your system
08:34:56 <eantyshev> anteaya: I see that
08:34:59 <anteaya> eantyshev: great
08:35:04 <anteaya> so with that in mind
08:35:11 <anteaya> do expand on your thoughts
08:36:00 <eantyshev> anteaya: do you mean that Zuul behavior?
08:36:11 <anteaya> eantyshev: you want to have a discussion
08:36:17 <anteaya> zuul seems to be the topic
08:36:24 <anteaya> I'm listening
08:37:32 <eantyshev> anteaya: Zuul allows to filter out some jobs by a file matcher, but not the whole event
08:38:18 <anteaya> and you would like zuul to have the functionality fo filter out a job based on event?
08:39:24 <anteaya> is what I said an accurate statement?
08:39:51 <eantyshev> anteaya: my proposal is to not report on events w/o any jobs
08:40:53 <eantyshev> anteaya: AFAIU events have no information on files affected, hence cannot be filtered
08:41:02 <anteaya> eantyshev: okay
08:41:15 <anteaya> let's look at zuul's bugs, shall we?
08:41:28 <anteaya> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/project/679
08:41:49 <anteaya> do you see anything on the zuul bug list that might sound similar to what you are talking about?
08:42:59 <anteaya> and the events are from gerrit correct?
08:43:13 <eantyshev> anteaya: Correct
08:43:26 <eantyshev> anteaya: no such bug
08:43:29 <anteaya> so you would need to start the job before you found out what files are affected
08:44:18 <eantyshev> anteaya: please explain, cannot understand why and how
08:44:19 <lennyb> yes, events are correct, The problem is that zuul comments even if no job was triggered
08:44:23 <anteaya> you are welcome to file a zuul bug
08:44:54 <anteaya> lennyb: let's look at an example, shall we?
08:45:10 <anteaya> lennyb: do you have the url of a review where this happened?
08:45:18 <lennyb> 1sec
08:46:10 <anteaya> eantyshev: the gerrit event doesn't give information on files, yes?
08:46:25 <lennyb> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187227
08:46:33 <eantyshev> anteaya: yes
08:46:38 <anteaya> so how can zuul know, before starting the jobs, what files are affected by the change?
08:47:09 <anteaya> zuul has to take the event and process it to know
08:47:47 <lennyb> patchset 3 was filtered out by our zuul and no job was triggered. still zull put a comment with 'Build succeeded.'
08:48:06 <anteaya> why was patchset 3 filered out?
08:49:07 <anteaya> what is the determining factor that you decided not to test patchset 3?
08:51:26 <anteaya> just as some feedback, having huge long pauses every time you are asked a question is very tiring for whoever is waiting to hear back from you
08:51:31 <anteaya> if you don't know, say so
08:51:58 <lennyb> modified files are not in layout.yaml
08:52:04 <anteaya> but asking a question and then having over a minute of silence doesn't support the listener having confidence in you
08:52:23 <anteaya> so you only want to test patches that modify layout.yaml?
08:52:31 <anteaya> nova has a layout.yaml?
08:52:33 <lennyb> anteaya: it takes me few secs to provide you the answer
08:52:42 <anteaya> lennyb: then say so
08:52:45 <anteaya> like
08:52:48 * anteaya thinks
08:52:51 * anteaya checks
08:52:57 * anteaya digs up the answer
08:53:01 * anteaya looks at the code
08:53:06 <lennyb> * thinks
08:53:17 <anteaya> like this /me thinks
08:53:33 <anteaya> but the / has to be at the front of the line
08:53:48 * lennyb talking to anteaya
08:54:09 <anteaya> yes
08:54:17 <anteaya> now where is nova's layout.yaml file?
08:54:20 * lennyb checks
08:54:31 <anteaya> better
08:55:16 <lennyb> anteaya: yes, nova CI is triggered only by files that can effect or be effected by our code/driver ...
08:55:32 <anteaya> lennyb: which is where?
08:55:41 <anteaya> I don't know nova's code structure
08:56:08 * lennyb preparing copy paste
08:56:15 <eantyshev> anteaya: there's no file information in event http://paste.openstack.org/show/255616/
08:56:24 <anteaya> there we go, now you understand irc communication better
08:56:52 <lennyb> http://pastebin.com/3yH12H3M
08:57:24 <lennyb> ( ignore $ in the end of the line, it's copy and paste from the linux )
08:57:32 <anteaya> lennyb: oh those are the files you test on
08:57:45 <lennyb> anteaya: yeap
08:57:51 <anteaya> lennyb: is that list of files something that nova agrees are the only files you need to test?
08:58:32 <anteaya> eantyshev: I concur, there is no file information included in the json blob when gerrit broadcasts its events
08:58:50 <anteaya> eantyshev: so the only way for zuul to know what files are affected is to process the event
08:58:59 <anteaya> eantyshev: can you see that?
08:59:20 <lennyb> I thought it was our decision, since only those files are effected by PCI
08:59:22 <eantyshev> anteaya: so this info is queried after event is processed, and filtering events is not a solution
08:59:39 <anteaya> I didnt' say there was no solution
09:00:01 <anteaya> but expecting zuul to be able to selectively ignore an event isn't a solution, no
09:00:15 <anteaya> zuul has to process each event
09:00:16 <eantyshev> anteaya: okay, that's what I mean
09:00:34 <anteaya> now what zuul does with the various events depends on what you asked zuul to do
09:00:42 <anteaya> but zuul can't ignore an event
09:01:00 <anteaya> as the event itself doesn't contain enough information for it to know what to ignore
09:01:32 <lennyb> Can zuul not comment if no job was triggered ?
09:01:42 <anteaya> lennyb: it might be your decision
09:02:04 <anteaya> lennyb: my point is that this is yet another part of your interface with nova for which you saught no nova input
09:02:13 <anteaya> lennyb: I don't know
09:02:40 <anteaya> but so far, you have been unsucessful in getting zuul to not comment if no job was triggered, yes?
09:03:08 <eantyshev> anteaya: lennyb: I didn;t find this possibility in Zuul
09:03:22 <anteaya> eantyshev: okay thank you, that is a useful data point
09:04:07 <anteaya> and we are out of time
09:04:14 <anteaya> let's keep discussing this
09:04:27 <anteaya> and seeing if we can find a solution to what you are looking for
09:04:44 <anteaya> thank you for your kind attendance and participation at today's meeting
09:04:48 <lennyb> is there an zuul irc chat room ( other then infra )
09:04:49 <lennyb> ?
09:04:56 <anteaya> infra is the zuul chat room
09:05:04 <anteaya> see you next week, if not before
09:05:09 <anteaya> #endmeeting