18:00:37 <krtaylor> #startmeeting third-party
18:00:38 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Oct  6 18:00:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:39 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:00:41 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'third_party'
18:01:11 <krtaylor> anyone here for third-party ?
18:01:22 <patrickeast> i am
18:01:28 <bmwiedemann> and I
18:01:31 <sweston> Greetings!
18:01:38 <kevinbenton> o/
18:01:40 <ociuhandu> i am
18:01:43 <ociuhandu> hello all
18:01:47 <krtaylor> hi everyone
18:01:51 <luqas> hi
18:02:20 <krtaylor> welcome!
18:02:34 <krtaylor> #topic Welcome & Reminder of OpenStack Mission
18:02:44 <krtaylor> #info The OpenStack Open Source Cloud Mission: to produce the ubiquitous Open Source Cloud Computing platform that will meet the needs of public and private clouds regardless of size, by being simple to implement and massively scalable.
18:02:53 <krtaylor> and here is the agenda:
18:03:15 <krtaylor> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#10.2F06.2F14
18:03:33 <krtaylor> ok so review time
18:03:46 <krtaylor> #topic Review of previous week's open action items
18:03:57 <krtaylor> the only one was mine
18:04:44 <krtaylor> I did basically distill all the later ideas I had, plus the ones earlier, it really boils down to how do we get CI ops to be better community citizens
18:04:56 <krtaylor> and have checks for making sure that happens
18:05:25 <krtaylor> so I added a line to the infra eitherpad
18:05:44 <krtaylor> here is a link to the etherpad we created
18:05:47 <krtaylor> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-third-party-items
18:05:57 <krtaylor> and a link to the infra one for summit:
18:06:07 <krtaylor> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-infrastructure-summit-topics
18:06:11 <krtaylor> oops
18:06:15 <krtaylor> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-infrastructure-summit-topics
18:06:46 <krtaylor> so, I am not suggesting that this is the only summit topic to come out of that list
18:07:13 <krtaylor> but, I got to thinking about what anteaya said, about how many of these items could be started with a patch set
18:07:23 <krtaylor> and that really trims it down a bit
18:07:32 <anteaya> great
18:07:54 <krtaylor> any comments or concerns?
18:08:11 <anteaya> are we ready to address the third party etherpad?
18:08:19 <anteaya> and bring it into organization?
18:08:33 <anteaya> or do we think that there are more ideas to come?
18:08:58 <krtaylor> good question, but I have not seen any new ideas since mine, anyone?
18:09:14 <kevinbenton> what does “policy on developers as operators?” refer to?
18:09:30 <anteaya> kevinbenton: which line?
18:09:38 <kevinbenton> 39
18:09:47 <kevinbenton> of kilo-third-party-items
18:09:53 <krtaylor> well, thats my spin on operators being more involved
18:09:55 <anteaya> thanks
18:10:13 <krtaylor> it is a bit heavy handed, and not enforceable
18:10:25 <kevinbenton> do you mean operators as developers?
18:10:50 <bmwiedemann> so operators should have signed the CLA?
18:11:03 <krtaylor> yes, except that they become openstack developers first
18:11:44 <krtaylor> yeah, I guess that is where I was headed, how can they give back without it?
18:12:19 <kevinbenton> ok, i’m +1 for that. it’s very useful even for the operators to understand the workflow that devs go through
18:12:27 <sweston> Yes, I had something to add here ... other projects have launchpad pages for tracking bugs, including categories such as "low hanging fruit", which would be a good place for folks to get involved.  Has there been any discussion on setting something like this up for third party CI?
18:12:53 <krtaylor> yes, its infra
18:13:01 <kevinbenton> i like the idea of getting a service account requiring a patch as well
18:13:04 <bmwiedemann> krtaylor: CI operators could give back without CLA by supplying useful testing results
18:13:38 <sweston> I understand, but there is no separation for third party items, as far as I know, is there?
18:13:40 <krtaylor> kevinbenton, I suggested that we use a patch to be a request for service account, others have as well
18:14:11 <kevinbenton> krtaylor: right. I was referring to your entry on the etherpad
18:14:38 <kevinbenton> isn’t a CLA required just to post results anyway?
18:14:51 <krtaylor> yeah, thats a grey area
18:14:57 * krtaylor not a lawyer
18:15:23 <anteaya> kevinbenton: the CLA is not required for a gerrit third party account
18:15:46 <kevinbenton> anteaya: oh okay. i didn’t realize that
18:16:02 <anteaya> glad you asked
18:16:17 * bmwiedemann remembers that gettings these CLAs signed in big corporations can easily take some months
18:16:17 <krtaylor> but, it could be? but then how would the service and a developer be linked?
18:16:45 <anteaya> they aren't
18:16:59 <anteaya> a gerrit third party account is not linked to a particular dev
18:17:06 <anteaya> it is linked to an ssh key
18:17:16 <anteaya> the holder of the private key has access to the account
18:17:21 <anteaya> also
18:17:34 <ociuhandu> krtaylor: I think it should not, as there cen be multiple operators and then it’s going to be problematic which operator/developer account is linked to a third-party ci gerrit account
18:17:35 <anteaya> the CLA does not have to be a part of this discussion
18:17:45 <krtaylor> honestly, a CI operator really has to be a developer, it requires such a high level of commitment
18:17:51 <anteaya> since there are some repos that do not require a cla
18:18:28 <anteaya> I'm behind the operator has to at least understand the dev workflow direction
18:18:42 <anteaya> and it is possible to accomplish that without requiring clas
18:19:00 <anteaya> as long as the repo does not require a cla to post a commit to it
18:19:27 <krtaylor> I guess so, hm, but it seems it is a good gesture if they already know the process
18:20:24 <anteaya> it makes a world of difference to their behaviour and how all third party operators are percieved if they at least have an understanding of what they are doing
18:21:25 <anteaya> so are we organizing the etherpad for the third party topics?
18:21:32 <anteaya> in order of priority?
18:21:39 <krtaylor> true, I always felt that the very last step of getting CI running and reporting would be to ask for a service account
18:21:40 <anteaya> or are we doing something else?
18:21:55 <anteaya> krtaylor: hindsight
18:21:58 <krtaylor> I took an action to distill into ides for infra
18:22:03 <krtaylor> ideas too
18:22:04 <anteaya> and I wish everyone had that
18:22:34 <anteaya> so what are we doing, organizing the third party etherpad or no?
18:22:46 <krtaylor> so, we could do an etherpad organize now
18:22:56 <anteaya> okay
18:23:12 <anteaya> so what is a potential top priority item on the etherpad?
18:23:39 <krtaylor> I guess I already voted
18:23:59 <krtaylor> How do we get third-party CI ops to become good infra citizens and contributing developers (krtaylor)
18:24:07 <krtaylor> that is from the infra etherpad
18:24:44 <anteaya> any objections to that being a priority topic?
18:24:57 <anteaya> speak up if you disagree
18:25:00 <ociuhandu> krtaylor: +1
18:25:21 <anteaya> krtaylor: please copy/paste it to the priority section
18:25:38 <anteaya> anyone else see an item that they feel should be recognized as priority?
18:26:14 <ociuhandu> Third party CI system realibility
18:26:37 <anteaya> ociuhandu: I agree with that
18:26:49 <anteaya> any objections to that being another priority item?
18:26:55 <krtaylor> yeah, that is another common theme
18:27:24 <anteaya> ociuhandu: can you add that to the list of priorities please?
18:27:24 <krtaylor> I see salv-orlando 's ideas as good discussion points for #1 too
18:27:45 <anteaya> krtaylor: great, we can discuss them with that topic
18:27:54 <anteaya> anyone see a third item as priority?
18:28:00 <anteaya> from the list on the etherpad?
18:28:26 <krtaylor> self regulating was my last possibility, and what that means, how it could be done
18:28:51 <anteaya> any objection to this being the third priority for the summit session?
18:29:03 <krtaylor> but that kind of relates to good infra citizens
18:29:23 <anteaya> I think it is separate enough to have its own bullet point
18:29:30 <krtaylor> fair enough
18:29:37 <anteaya> krtaylor: can you add that as the third item please?
18:29:47 <ociuhandu> just a thought on point 1: I think also documenting on how a third-party CI should be deployed (in order to make sure conrtibutions can easily be sent upstream) would be great and afaik there’s no “step-by-step guide” for this
18:29:58 <anteaya> and I think that is enough for me to go to ttx now and jockey for a spot
18:30:20 <anteaya> ociuhandu: can you add that down below, under the general section?
18:30:40 <anteaya> ociuhandu: it is a good point and we can discuss that during the point #1 portion
18:30:44 <anteaya> fair enough?
18:31:25 <ociuhandu> sure
18:31:29 <anteaya> thanks
18:31:45 <anteaya> okay thank you, I think I have enough to move on with
18:32:20 <krtaylor> ok, lets move on then
18:32:33 <krtaylor> #topic Announcements
18:32:54 <krtaylor> nothing in the agenda, any quick announcements?
18:33:23 <krtaylor> onward then
18:33:25 <krtaylor> #topic OpenStack Program items
18:33:50 <krtaylor> anteaya, I added you, mainly as a placeholder for a project-config discussion
18:34:05 <anteaya> awesome
18:34:10 <anteaya> I'm a great placeholder
18:34:17 <anteaya> project-config
18:34:25 <anteaya> what shall we talk about?
18:34:41 <krtaylor> I know it was a good thing, but it impacted several systems
18:34:45 <anteaya> yes
18:34:53 <anteaya> there is no way that it couldn't
18:35:54 <krtaylor> I was hoping some from my team would be here to discuss the impacts we have seen, but they are busy fixing our system  :)
18:36:02 <anteaya> :D
18:36:43 <krtaylor> but, it might be really good for us to break down the impacts and document them, some of that has already been done
18:37:14 <anteaya> documentation is always good
18:37:19 <anteaya> blog posts are great too
18:37:27 <krtaylor> ++
18:37:40 <krtaylor> and then the second part of that is heads up on the system-config changes
18:37:52 <anteaya> heads up
18:38:17 <krtaylor> hehheh, any comments on that?
18:38:23 <anteaya> https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:config-rename,n,z
18:38:39 <anteaya> there they are, I need to rebase most of the project-config ones
18:38:42 <anteaya> do review
18:39:10 <anteaya> they will get discussed at tomorrow's infra meeting and hopefully a time set for gerrit to come down, the patches to merge and the rename to happen
18:39:33 <anteaya> there are a bunch of manual changes that have to take place which is why gerrit is down for the rename
18:39:36 <krtaylor> great
18:40:01 <anteaya> we try to select a friday or slow time but that isn't possible anymore
18:40:06 <anteaya> since we have no slow times
18:40:11 <anteaya> just slower times
18:40:17 <anteaya> so someone will be upset
18:40:37 <krtaylor> yes, that would be good to spread out, especially to the teams that don't monitor -infra like they should
18:40:51 <anteaya> we communicate
18:40:52 <krtaylor> (back to the developer discussion)
18:41:00 <anteaya> in the infra meeting and with emails to dev
18:41:06 <anteaya> but someone is always surprised
18:41:09 <krtaylor> yes
18:41:52 <krtaylor> ok, I think we covered those
18:41:59 <krtaylor> any questions from anyone?
18:42:43 <krtaylor> the second item we already did, that was topics for infra summit sessions
18:43:19 <krtaylor> anteaya, feel free to edit/overwrite my line in the infra summit etherpad
18:43:38 * anteaya feels no need to do so at this time
18:43:58 <krtaylor> fair enough
18:44:02 <krtaylor> onward
18:44:05 <krtaylor> #topic Deadlines & Deprecations
18:44:14 <krtaylor> nothing here, anyone?
18:44:31 <krtaylor> next
18:44:33 <krtaylor> #topic Highlighting a Program or Gerrit Account
18:44:48 <krtaylor> also zilch
18:45:06 <krtaylor> and finally
18:45:09 <krtaylor> #topic Open Discussion
18:45:19 <krtaylor> the floor is open, anyone?
18:46:11 <krtaylor> I hope everyone is planning on going to summit
18:46:23 <krtaylor> I'd really like to meet more of you all
18:46:23 <anteaya> the blissful lull of start of Kilo
18:46:30 <krtaylor> hehheh
18:46:30 <anteaya> agreed
18:46:36 <anteaya> who is attending summit
18:46:39 <anteaya> o/
18:46:43 <sweston> o/
18:46:54 <krtaylor> o/
18:47:05 <luqas> o/
18:47:30 <anteaya> 4 is a good start
18:47:37 <ociuhandu> will be there
18:47:55 <anteaya> ociuhandu: great, 5
18:48:13 <krtaylor> hm, we may have to have a beer and /or lunch design session :)
18:48:38 <bmwiedemann> will be there, too
18:48:44 <anteaya> awesome
18:48:52 <dane_leblanc> Beer? I'll be there.
18:48:53 <ociuhandu> krtaylor: +2
18:49:06 <ociuhandu> :)
18:49:12 <anteaya> krtaylor: not a bad idea
18:49:31 <krtaylor> I'm sure we'd draw some neutron and cinder folks as well
18:50:19 <krtaylor> anteaya, are there any new CI requirements discussions coming up that you know about?
18:50:30 <anteaya> krtaylor: I hope not
18:50:32 <krtaylor> other projects
18:50:34 <krtaylor> hehheh
18:50:46 <anteaya> I'll be running around at summit
18:50:51 <anteaya> I'll know more then
18:51:07 <anteaya> the only project I know doing an overhaul is neutron
18:51:10 <krtaylor> yep, keep me posted, I'll sit in on as many as I can
18:51:18 <anteaya> which reminds me I need to attend a meeting and find out more
18:52:07 <krtaylor> we have 3 more meetings then summit
18:52:24 <krtaylor> should we cancel the Nov 3rd meeting?
18:52:55 <krtaylor> I doubt I'll be available to run it
18:53:12 <krtaylor> we can discuss that next week
18:53:27 <anteaya> let's cancel the Nov 3 meeting
18:53:35 <anteaya> we will be too busy meeting to have the meeting
18:53:41 <krtaylor> yeah, makes sense
18:53:44 <ociuhandu> anteaya: +1
18:53:55 <krtaylor> I'll put it on the meeting page
18:54:14 <krtaylor> ok, if nothing else, I'll wrap this up early for a change
18:54:30 <anteaya> thanks
18:54:37 <krtaylor> thanks everyone
18:54:42 <krtaylor> #endmeeting