18:00:37 <krtaylor> #startmeeting third-party 18:00:38 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Oct 6 18:00:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:39 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 18:00:41 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' 18:01:11 <krtaylor> anyone here for third-party ? 18:01:22 <patrickeast> i am 18:01:28 <bmwiedemann> and I 18:01:31 <sweston> Greetings! 18:01:38 <kevinbenton> o/ 18:01:40 <ociuhandu> i am 18:01:43 <ociuhandu> hello all 18:01:47 <krtaylor> hi everyone 18:01:51 <luqas> hi 18:02:20 <krtaylor> welcome! 18:02:34 <krtaylor> #topic Welcome & Reminder of OpenStack Mission 18:02:44 <krtaylor> #info The OpenStack Open Source Cloud Mission: to produce the ubiquitous Open Source Cloud Computing platform that will meet the needs of public and private clouds regardless of size, by being simple to implement and massively scalable. 18:02:53 <krtaylor> and here is the agenda: 18:03:15 <krtaylor> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#10.2F06.2F14 18:03:33 <krtaylor> ok so review time 18:03:46 <krtaylor> #topic Review of previous week's open action items 18:03:57 <krtaylor> the only one was mine 18:04:44 <krtaylor> I did basically distill all the later ideas I had, plus the ones earlier, it really boils down to how do we get CI ops to be better community citizens 18:04:56 <krtaylor> and have checks for making sure that happens 18:05:25 <krtaylor> so I added a line to the infra eitherpad 18:05:44 <krtaylor> here is a link to the etherpad we created 18:05:47 <krtaylor> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-third-party-items 18:05:57 <krtaylor> and a link to the infra one for summit: 18:06:07 <krtaylor> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-infrastructure-summit-topics 18:06:11 <krtaylor> oops 18:06:15 <krtaylor> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-infrastructure-summit-topics 18:06:46 <krtaylor> so, I am not suggesting that this is the only summit topic to come out of that list 18:07:13 <krtaylor> but, I got to thinking about what anteaya said, about how many of these items could be started with a patch set 18:07:23 <krtaylor> and that really trims it down a bit 18:07:32 <anteaya> great 18:07:54 <krtaylor> any comments or concerns? 18:08:11 <anteaya> are we ready to address the third party etherpad? 18:08:19 <anteaya> and bring it into organization? 18:08:33 <anteaya> or do we think that there are more ideas to come? 18:08:58 <krtaylor> good question, but I have not seen any new ideas since mine, anyone? 18:09:14 <kevinbenton> what does “policy on developers as operators?” refer to? 18:09:30 <anteaya> kevinbenton: which line? 18:09:38 <kevinbenton> 39 18:09:47 <kevinbenton> of kilo-third-party-items 18:09:53 <krtaylor> well, thats my spin on operators being more involved 18:09:55 <anteaya> thanks 18:10:13 <krtaylor> it is a bit heavy handed, and not enforceable 18:10:25 <kevinbenton> do you mean operators as developers? 18:10:50 <bmwiedemann> so operators should have signed the CLA? 18:11:03 <krtaylor> yes, except that they become openstack developers first 18:11:44 <krtaylor> yeah, I guess that is where I was headed, how can they give back without it? 18:12:19 <kevinbenton> ok, i’m +1 for that. it’s very useful even for the operators to understand the workflow that devs go through 18:12:27 <sweston> Yes, I had something to add here ... other projects have launchpad pages for tracking bugs, including categories such as "low hanging fruit", which would be a good place for folks to get involved. Has there been any discussion on setting something like this up for third party CI? 18:12:53 <krtaylor> yes, its infra 18:13:01 <kevinbenton> i like the idea of getting a service account requiring a patch as well 18:13:04 <bmwiedemann> krtaylor: CI operators could give back without CLA by supplying useful testing results 18:13:38 <sweston> I understand, but there is no separation for third party items, as far as I know, is there? 18:13:40 <krtaylor> kevinbenton, I suggested that we use a patch to be a request for service account, others have as well 18:14:11 <kevinbenton> krtaylor: right. I was referring to your entry on the etherpad 18:14:38 <kevinbenton> isn’t a CLA required just to post results anyway? 18:14:51 <krtaylor> yeah, thats a grey area 18:14:57 * krtaylor not a lawyer 18:15:23 <anteaya> kevinbenton: the CLA is not required for a gerrit third party account 18:15:46 <kevinbenton> anteaya: oh okay. i didn’t realize that 18:16:02 <anteaya> glad you asked 18:16:17 * bmwiedemann remembers that gettings these CLAs signed in big corporations can easily take some months 18:16:17 <krtaylor> but, it could be? but then how would the service and a developer be linked? 18:16:45 <anteaya> they aren't 18:16:59 <anteaya> a gerrit third party account is not linked to a particular dev 18:17:06 <anteaya> it is linked to an ssh key 18:17:16 <anteaya> the holder of the private key has access to the account 18:17:21 <anteaya> also 18:17:34 <ociuhandu> krtaylor: I think it should not, as there cen be multiple operators and then it’s going to be problematic which operator/developer account is linked to a third-party ci gerrit account 18:17:35 <anteaya> the CLA does not have to be a part of this discussion 18:17:45 <krtaylor> honestly, a CI operator really has to be a developer, it requires such a high level of commitment 18:17:51 <anteaya> since there are some repos that do not require a cla 18:18:28 <anteaya> I'm behind the operator has to at least understand the dev workflow direction 18:18:42 <anteaya> and it is possible to accomplish that without requiring clas 18:19:00 <anteaya> as long as the repo does not require a cla to post a commit to it 18:19:27 <krtaylor> I guess so, hm, but it seems it is a good gesture if they already know the process 18:20:24 <anteaya> it makes a world of difference to their behaviour and how all third party operators are percieved if they at least have an understanding of what they are doing 18:21:25 <anteaya> so are we organizing the etherpad for the third party topics? 18:21:32 <anteaya> in order of priority? 18:21:39 <krtaylor> true, I always felt that the very last step of getting CI running and reporting would be to ask for a service account 18:21:40 <anteaya> or are we doing something else? 18:21:55 <anteaya> krtaylor: hindsight 18:21:58 <krtaylor> I took an action to distill into ides for infra 18:22:03 <krtaylor> ideas too 18:22:04 <anteaya> and I wish everyone had that 18:22:34 <anteaya> so what are we doing, organizing the third party etherpad or no? 18:22:46 <krtaylor> so, we could do an etherpad organize now 18:22:56 <anteaya> okay 18:23:12 <anteaya> so what is a potential top priority item on the etherpad? 18:23:39 <krtaylor> I guess I already voted 18:23:59 <krtaylor> How do we get third-party CI ops to become good infra citizens and contributing developers (krtaylor) 18:24:07 <krtaylor> that is from the infra etherpad 18:24:44 <anteaya> any objections to that being a priority topic? 18:24:57 <anteaya> speak up if you disagree 18:25:00 <ociuhandu> krtaylor: +1 18:25:21 <anteaya> krtaylor: please copy/paste it to the priority section 18:25:38 <anteaya> anyone else see an item that they feel should be recognized as priority? 18:26:14 <ociuhandu> Third party CI system realibility 18:26:37 <anteaya> ociuhandu: I agree with that 18:26:49 <anteaya> any objections to that being another priority item? 18:26:55 <krtaylor> yeah, that is another common theme 18:27:24 <anteaya> ociuhandu: can you add that to the list of priorities please? 18:27:24 <krtaylor> I see salv-orlando 's ideas as good discussion points for #1 too 18:27:45 <anteaya> krtaylor: great, we can discuss them with that topic 18:27:54 <anteaya> anyone see a third item as priority? 18:28:00 <anteaya> from the list on the etherpad? 18:28:26 <krtaylor> self regulating was my last possibility, and what that means, how it could be done 18:28:51 <anteaya> any objection to this being the third priority for the summit session? 18:29:03 <krtaylor> but that kind of relates to good infra citizens 18:29:23 <anteaya> I think it is separate enough to have its own bullet point 18:29:30 <krtaylor> fair enough 18:29:37 <anteaya> krtaylor: can you add that as the third item please? 18:29:47 <ociuhandu> just a thought on point 1: I think also documenting on how a third-party CI should be deployed (in order to make sure conrtibutions can easily be sent upstream) would be great and afaik there’s no “step-by-step guide” for this 18:29:58 <anteaya> and I think that is enough for me to go to ttx now and jockey for a spot 18:30:20 <anteaya> ociuhandu: can you add that down below, under the general section? 18:30:40 <anteaya> ociuhandu: it is a good point and we can discuss that during the point #1 portion 18:30:44 <anteaya> fair enough? 18:31:25 <ociuhandu> sure 18:31:29 <anteaya> thanks 18:31:45 <anteaya> okay thank you, I think I have enough to move on with 18:32:20 <krtaylor> ok, lets move on then 18:32:33 <krtaylor> #topic Announcements 18:32:54 <krtaylor> nothing in the agenda, any quick announcements? 18:33:23 <krtaylor> onward then 18:33:25 <krtaylor> #topic OpenStack Program items 18:33:50 <krtaylor> anteaya, I added you, mainly as a placeholder for a project-config discussion 18:34:05 <anteaya> awesome 18:34:10 <anteaya> I'm a great placeholder 18:34:17 <anteaya> project-config 18:34:25 <anteaya> what shall we talk about? 18:34:41 <krtaylor> I know it was a good thing, but it impacted several systems 18:34:45 <anteaya> yes 18:34:53 <anteaya> there is no way that it couldn't 18:35:54 <krtaylor> I was hoping some from my team would be here to discuss the impacts we have seen, but they are busy fixing our system :) 18:36:02 <anteaya> :D 18:36:43 <krtaylor> but, it might be really good for us to break down the impacts and document them, some of that has already been done 18:37:14 <anteaya> documentation is always good 18:37:19 <anteaya> blog posts are great too 18:37:27 <krtaylor> ++ 18:37:40 <krtaylor> and then the second part of that is heads up on the system-config changes 18:37:52 <anteaya> heads up 18:38:17 <krtaylor> hehheh, any comments on that? 18:38:23 <anteaya> https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:config-rename,n,z 18:38:39 <anteaya> there they are, I need to rebase most of the project-config ones 18:38:42 <anteaya> do review 18:39:10 <anteaya> they will get discussed at tomorrow's infra meeting and hopefully a time set for gerrit to come down, the patches to merge and the rename to happen 18:39:33 <anteaya> there are a bunch of manual changes that have to take place which is why gerrit is down for the rename 18:39:36 <krtaylor> great 18:40:01 <anteaya> we try to select a friday or slow time but that isn't possible anymore 18:40:06 <anteaya> since we have no slow times 18:40:11 <anteaya> just slower times 18:40:17 <anteaya> so someone will be upset 18:40:37 <krtaylor> yes, that would be good to spread out, especially to the teams that don't monitor -infra like they should 18:40:51 <anteaya> we communicate 18:40:52 <krtaylor> (back to the developer discussion) 18:41:00 <anteaya> in the infra meeting and with emails to dev 18:41:06 <anteaya> but someone is always surprised 18:41:09 <krtaylor> yes 18:41:52 <krtaylor> ok, I think we covered those 18:41:59 <krtaylor> any questions from anyone? 18:42:43 <krtaylor> the second item we already did, that was topics for infra summit sessions 18:43:19 <krtaylor> anteaya, feel free to edit/overwrite my line in the infra summit etherpad 18:43:38 * anteaya feels no need to do so at this time 18:43:58 <krtaylor> fair enough 18:44:02 <krtaylor> onward 18:44:05 <krtaylor> #topic Deadlines & Deprecations 18:44:14 <krtaylor> nothing here, anyone? 18:44:31 <krtaylor> next 18:44:33 <krtaylor> #topic Highlighting a Program or Gerrit Account 18:44:48 <krtaylor> also zilch 18:45:06 <krtaylor> and finally 18:45:09 <krtaylor> #topic Open Discussion 18:45:19 <krtaylor> the floor is open, anyone? 18:46:11 <krtaylor> I hope everyone is planning on going to summit 18:46:23 <krtaylor> I'd really like to meet more of you all 18:46:23 <anteaya> the blissful lull of start of Kilo 18:46:30 <krtaylor> hehheh 18:46:30 <anteaya> agreed 18:46:36 <anteaya> who is attending summit 18:46:39 <anteaya> o/ 18:46:43 <sweston> o/ 18:46:54 <krtaylor> o/ 18:47:05 <luqas> o/ 18:47:30 <anteaya> 4 is a good start 18:47:37 <ociuhandu> will be there 18:47:55 <anteaya> ociuhandu: great, 5 18:48:13 <krtaylor> hm, we may have to have a beer and /or lunch design session :) 18:48:38 <bmwiedemann> will be there, too 18:48:44 <anteaya> awesome 18:48:52 <dane_leblanc> Beer? I'll be there. 18:48:53 <ociuhandu> krtaylor: +2 18:49:06 <ociuhandu> :) 18:49:12 <anteaya> krtaylor: not a bad idea 18:49:31 <krtaylor> I'm sure we'd draw some neutron and cinder folks as well 18:50:19 <krtaylor> anteaya, are there any new CI requirements discussions coming up that you know about? 18:50:30 <anteaya> krtaylor: I hope not 18:50:32 <krtaylor> other projects 18:50:34 <krtaylor> hehheh 18:50:46 <anteaya> I'll be running around at summit 18:50:51 <anteaya> I'll know more then 18:51:07 <anteaya> the only project I know doing an overhaul is neutron 18:51:10 <krtaylor> yep, keep me posted, I'll sit in on as many as I can 18:51:18 <anteaya> which reminds me I need to attend a meeting and find out more 18:52:07 <krtaylor> we have 3 more meetings then summit 18:52:24 <krtaylor> should we cancel the Nov 3rd meeting? 18:52:55 <krtaylor> I doubt I'll be available to run it 18:53:12 <krtaylor> we can discuss that next week 18:53:27 <anteaya> let's cancel the Nov 3 meeting 18:53:35 <anteaya> we will be too busy meeting to have the meeting 18:53:41 <krtaylor> yeah, makes sense 18:53:44 <ociuhandu> anteaya: +1 18:53:55 <krtaylor> I'll put it on the meeting page 18:54:14 <krtaylor> ok, if nothing else, I'll wrap this up early for a change 18:54:30 <anteaya> thanks 18:54:37 <krtaylor> thanks everyone 18:54:42 <krtaylor> #endmeeting