17:59:51 #startmeeting tc 17:59:51 Meeting started Tue Jun 6 17:59:51 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is knikolla. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:51 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 17:59:51 The meeting name has been set to 'tc' 18:00:18 #link https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87108541765?pwd=emlXVXg4QUxrUTlLNDZ2TTllWUM3Zz09 18:00:21 #topic Roll call 18:00:26 o/ 18:00:35 o/ 18:00:38 o/ logging in 18:00:48 o/ 18:10:25 o/ 18:10:42 o/ omw 18:12:04 #topic Follow up on past action items 18:12:43 #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2023.2-tracker 18:13:22 #action knikolla To fix link redirect to release from docs 18:13:48 #topic Open Infra Summit and PTG in Vancouver, next week 18:21:05 #topic Gate health check 18:33:19 this is something we need to spread or attract more members to do this #link https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/testing.html#project-gating 18:35:06 being "the openstack job fixer" has been the #1 source of burnout for long-term members of our community 18:35:20 agree 18:35:48 I'm not able to dial in but this is sort of why I wondered if a project management type role might be somethng to investigate 18:36:05 they could help coordinate efforts across teams/groups ratherthan doing it all themselves and maybe that would help spread out the burnout factor 18:37:49 if we take away the ability for random contributors to make recheck comments, they'll just rebase or push trivial new revisions instead 18:38:04 laziness finds a way 18:38:55 clarkb: nobody has a stick. TC doesn't. PTL doesn't. We can have someone who says "you, go fix the gate", but we have no method whatsoever for making those people -- or in many cases the bosses who set the unreasonable deadlines they are trying to meet -- dedicate their time where we want. 18:39:26 This is where I struggle, it seems like in many cases saying "work on the commons instead of $interestingThing" may lead to loss of that contributors' effort rather than redirection of it 18:39:40 JayF: sure, but I don't think a stick is necessary. If such a role produces benefits people will go along with it. 18:40:07 clarkb: IMHO, the root cause of the problem is that the benefits of contributing to the commons is mostly invisible, or difficult to track 18:40:16 its not about forcing people to do anything butkeeping track of where the issues are and pointing people in a common direction towards betterness 18:40:55 My hypothesis is that such an effort would lead to the same cabal of people going in the pointed-direction while the same disengaged group continues working in their own direction 18:42:29 The problem today is that no one or no group exists for that so when eg ironic tests start timing out before anyone even does the most basic debugging they show up asking infra to fix it 18:42:50 essentially the infra team is acting as a poor proxy for this role/task today and I think there is a more efficient and productive way to do it 18:43:03 #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-leaders-interaction-2023-vancouver 18:43:10 clarkb: it's because they think we have a magic "make it work" switch 18:43:12 thanks 18:45:15 #topic Broken docs due to inconsistent release naming 18:45:26 #topic Open Discussion and Reviews 18:47:04 #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/885379 18:48:29 #openstack-i18n 18:48:41 come join us! 18:49:28 tonyb also replied to the cinder eol thread a few minutes ago 18:51:21 again i'll float the proposal that we rename "extended maintenance" to "community maintenance" or maybe just "unmaintained" (and get rid of the separate distinction for the unmaintained phase we have now) 18:52:10 but like i said in my reply, if nobody from the distros is actually proposing patches and volunteering to be the reviewers on those branches, i don't think we've succeeded in what we set out to do with them anyway 18:56:03 they're the first to object when we say we want to eol a branch, but i almost never see them propose or review changes for them 19:03:41 fungi: i think you're right about that 19:04:43 does anyone know if there's a list of forum etherpads, or even just a URL-schema most people are using? 19:05:13 @diablo_rojo is collecting one ATM see recent list post 19:05:25 rosmaita: this is page we might have but not currectly 19:05:26 https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum/Vanvouver2023 19:05:32 fungi: also, i imagine everyone you know has pointed this out to you: https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/4034986-fungi-may-offer-jaw-dropping-solution-to-climate-change/ 19:05:44 #endmeeting tc