17:59:51 <knikolla> #startmeeting tc
17:59:51 <opendevmeet> Meeting started Tue Jun  6 17:59:51 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is knikolla. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:51 <opendevmeet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:59:51 <opendevmeet> The meeting name has been set to 'tc'
18:00:18 <knikolla> #link https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87108541765?pwd=emlXVXg4QUxrUTlLNDZ2TTllWUM3Zz09
18:00:21 <knikolla> #topic Roll call
18:00:26 <rosmaita> o/
18:00:35 <gmann> o/
18:00:38 <spotz_> o/ logging in
18:00:48 <knikolla> o/
18:10:25 <jamespage> o/
18:10:42 <JayF> o/ omw
18:12:04 <knikolla> #topic Follow up on past action items
18:12:43 <knikolla> #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2023.2-tracker
18:13:22 <knikolla> #action knikolla To fix link redirect to release from docs
18:13:48 <knikolla> #topic Open Infra Summit and PTG in Vancouver, next week
18:21:05 <knikolla> #topic Gate health check
18:33:19 <gmann> this is something we need to spread or attract more members to do this #link https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/testing.html#project-gating
18:35:06 <fungi> being "the openstack job fixer" has been the #1 source of burnout for long-term members of our community
18:35:20 <gmann> agree
18:35:48 <clarkb> I'm not able to dial in but this is sort of why I wondered if a project management type role might be somethng to investigate
18:36:05 <clarkb> they could help coordinate efforts across teams/groups ratherthan doing it all themselves and maybe that would help spread out the burnout factor
18:37:49 <fungi> if we take away the ability for random contributors to make recheck comments, they'll just rebase or push trivial new revisions instead
18:38:04 <fungi> laziness finds a way
18:38:55 <JayF> clarkb: nobody has a stick. TC doesn't. PTL doesn't. We can have someone who says "you, go fix the gate", but we have no method whatsoever for making those people -- or in many cases the bosses who set the unreasonable deadlines they are trying to meet -- dedicate their time where we want.
18:39:26 <JayF> This is where I struggle, it seems like in many cases saying "work on the commons instead of $interestingThing" may lead to loss of that contributors' effort rather than redirection of it
18:39:40 <clarkb> JayF: sure, but I don't think a stick is necessary. If such a role produces benefits people will go along with it.
18:40:07 <JayF> clarkb: IMHO, the root cause of the problem is that the benefits of contributing to the commons is mostly invisible, or difficult to track
18:40:16 <clarkb> its not about forcing people to do anything butkeeping track of where the issues are and pointing people in a common direction towards betterness
18:40:55 <JayF> My hypothesis is that such an effort would lead to the same cabal of people going in the pointed-direction while the same disengaged group continues working in their own direction
18:42:29 <clarkb> The problem today is that no one or no group exists for that so when eg ironic tests start timing out before anyone even does the most basic debugging they show up asking infra to fix it
18:42:50 <clarkb> essentially the infra team is acting as a poor proxy for this role/task today and I think there is a more efficient and productive way to do it
18:43:03 <knikolla> #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-leaders-interaction-2023-vancouver
18:43:10 <fungi> clarkb: it's because they think we have a magic "make it work" switch
18:43:12 <gmann> thanks
18:45:15 <knikolla> #topic Broken docs due to inconsistent release naming
18:45:26 <knikolla> #topic Open Discussion and Reviews
18:47:04 <rosmaita> #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/885379
18:48:29 <fungi> #openstack-i18n
18:48:41 <fungi> come join us!
18:49:28 <fungi> tonyb also replied to the cinder eol thread a few minutes ago
18:51:21 <fungi> again i'll float the proposal that we rename "extended maintenance" to "community maintenance" or maybe just "unmaintained" (and get rid of the separate distinction for the unmaintained phase we have now)
18:52:10 <fungi> but like i said in my reply, if nobody from the distros is actually proposing patches and volunteering to be the reviewers on those branches, i don't think we've succeeded in what we set out to do with them anyway
18:56:03 <fungi> they're the first to object when we say we want to eol a branch, but i almost never see them propose or review changes for them
19:03:41 <rosmaita> fungi: i think you're right about that
19:04:43 <rosmaita> does anyone know if there's a list of forum etherpads, or even just a URL-schema most people are using?
19:05:13 <tonyb> @diablo_rojo is collecting one ATM see recent list post
19:05:25 <gmann> rosmaita: this is page we might have but not currectly
19:05:26 <gmann> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum/Vanvouver2023
19:05:32 <rosmaita> fungi: also, i imagine everyone you know has pointed this out to you:  https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/4034986-fungi-may-offer-jaw-dropping-solution-to-climate-change/
19:05:44 <knikolla> #endmeeting tc