19:01:15 <Zara> #startmeeting storyboard
19:01:16 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Nov 30 19:01:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Zara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:18 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:01:20 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'
19:01:35 <Zara> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StoryBoard#Agenda_for_next_meeting
19:01:49 <Zara> nothing in announcements or urgent items
19:01:59 <Zara> #topic In-Progress Work
19:02:18 <Zara> we merged the css fix
19:02:27 <Zara> that stops board cards from appearing 'weird'
19:02:34 <Zara> for want of a more precise explanation
19:03:14 <Zara> and as mentioned, SotK's on holiday, so we'll get any updates on permissions for teams next week
19:03:40 <Zara> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/400381/ still awaits reviews
19:03:56 <Zara> which is the patch to change the 'stories' icon from 3 lines (similar to 'tasks' icon) to a little book
19:04:07 <Zara> as suggested by SpamapS
19:04:46 <Zara> I have not got around to updating any more webclient components this week; instead, I have been busy with a thing
19:04:58 <Zara> that we will come onto in Discussion
19:05:14 <fungi> under in-progress work, consider https://review.openstack.org/395116 in search of reviews
19:05:16 <fungi> #link https://review.openstack.org/395116 remove or adopt incubated oslo code
19:05:29 <Zara> ah, thank-you!
19:05:38 <Zara> I've been meaning to get to that and keep forgetting about it
19:05:45 <fungi> it's the last in a set of 4 changes to get the sb repos in compliance with the tc's only cross-project goal for this cycle
19:06:17 <Zara> yep, I should get to it this week
19:06:18 <fungi> the other 3 already merged quickly (thanks to those who reviewed those!)
19:06:20 <Zara> thanks for reminding me
19:07:22 <fungi> once that merges i'll check us off the pending completion list in governance
19:07:32 <Zara> woop, feel free to pester me if I haven't got to it by the end of the week
19:07:59 <Zara> it should be fine, but since oslo code is used more heavily there, I wanted to spend time checking
19:08:35 <Zara> then forgot I hadn't done it yet
19:08:47 <Zara> does anyone have any other in-progress work to discuss?
19:09:23 <fungi> *crickets*
19:09:24 <Zara> in that case...
19:09:31 <Zara> #topic Discussion
19:09:50 <Zara> so, we chatted a bit about this last week
19:10:08 <Zara> for anyone who missed the logs, we want to put together some materials
19:10:15 <Zara> that explain some of the concepts in storyboard
19:10:26 <Zara> and how they relate to things people are already familiar
19:10:37 <Zara> with
19:10:45 <Zara> in other task-tracking systems
19:11:18 <Zara> based on various feedback and questions we've had so far.
19:11:38 <Zara> to that end, we're doing a blog!
19:11:43 <fungi> ooh!
19:11:55 <fungi> we can probably syndicate it onto planet.openstack.org too
19:12:17 <Zara> yep! so last week, I said I'd get some hacky infra up to start with, that can hopefully be replaced with something nicer, but will allow us to mock things up.
19:12:29 <Zara> I've done that, and it's hideous, but....
19:12:45 <Zara> https://zarathecat.github.io/storyboard-blog/ is the preview
19:12:59 <diablo_rojo_phon> Since my computer is being stupid...
19:13:03 <Zara> hi!
19:13:09 <diablo_rojo_phon> Smart phones FTW?
19:13:28 <diablo_rojo_phon> Irc client decided to rebel right at meeting time.
19:13:35 <Zara> :) hah, we just got onto discussing blogness, so good timing!
19:13:36 <fungi> #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-planet/tree/planet.ini planet.openstack.org configuration
19:13:40 <fungi> for when you're ready
19:13:42 <diablo_rojo_phon> Anywho. Sorry to interrupt.
19:13:58 <Zara> fungi: thank you!
19:15:21 <Zara> so yeah, the hacky thing I put up is built from pelican and hosted via github pages. I'd prefer very different hosting for an 'official' thing
19:15:51 <Zara> the config and content are here: https://github.com/Zarathecat/storyboard-blog
19:15:56 <Zara> so should be very easy to port somewhere else
19:16:29 <diablo_rojo_phon> Good work throwing something together so quickly.
19:16:52 <Zara> the template is also very close to one of the defaults, so I'd like to make that a bit less shameless...
19:17:18 <Zara> but yeah, hopefully it's enough to work with
19:17:49 <Zara> hello double diablo_rojo!
19:18:05 <diablo_rojo> Ha ha success at alast
19:18:08 <diablo_rojo> *at last
19:18:08 <Zara> :)
19:19:15 <fungi> diablo_rojo: i notice the off-list "Migration from Launchpad" temperature taking thread produced some useful feedback and seems to have died down. are you working on a synopsis yet or still trying to elicit more feedback first? just curious
19:20:19 <diablo_rojo> I was going to respond to the list again and ask if the PTL's could designate their bug czars so that we could get feedback from them and make a list of the feedback we have currently from the PTLS
19:20:27 <diablo_rojo> on my todo list for today/tomorrow
19:20:52 <diablo_rojo> fungi, Thank you btw for fielding most of the questions and contestations
19:20:54 <fungi> cool, it wasn't clear to me if, e.g., auggy had seen any of it yet
19:21:08 <diablo_rojo> Yeah she definitely is on my list of people to chat with too.
19:21:26 <diablo_rojo> I figured Matt would defer to her
19:21:33 <fungi> diablo_rojo: my pleasure. i figured i have a little more background with the current state there and didn't want you stuck having to dig up answers while you're still coming up to speed
19:22:45 <diablo_rojo> fungi, you were definitely a lifesaver
19:23:09 <diablo_rojo> I had thought about ccing Zara and SotK on it too so maybe I will do that with the next round of emails.
19:23:58 <fungi> yeah, i mainly don't want them to feel like they have to field all of the raw feedback
19:24:27 <fungi> so getting it distilled to something actionable first is a good way to not waste their time
19:24:35 <diablo_rojo> fungi, That was my hesitation too.
19:24:57 <fungi> most of the discussion was dispelling myths about storyboard, launchpad, defect and task tracking in general, et cetera
19:25:07 <diablo_rojo> Well, if you're cool with continuing to help answer the things I can't then maybe I will just keep it to you and me and thierry for now
19:25:13 <Zara> ah, at the moment I'm interested in reading, but intend to lurk more than field.
19:25:53 <fungi> i have no problem with you being cc'd, just don't want you to feel like it's your responsibility to keep up with it much less respond to all of it
19:26:45 <fungi> i'm perfectly fine taking point along with ttx on explaining why this move will be good for everyone in the end
19:26:58 <diablo_rojo> Zara, if you wanna see I can fw you things. Is there an etherpad started somewhere of a roadmap of things to implement?
19:27:17 <diablo_rojo> fungi, Cool. Might just stick to that then.
19:27:22 <fungi> and linking various parts of teh sb documentation that show the features people are requesting mostly already exist
19:28:13 <Zara> fungi: sure, that works for me! :) it's mainly useful so I have a frame of reference if someone turns up in-channel with questions, or if I'm aware of something but didn't announce it loud enough at some point, I can quietly point you/ttx/diablo_rojo at it.
19:28:41 <diablo_rojo> Sweet :)
19:30:21 <diablo_rojo> So what needs to happen to push that blog forward?
19:31:07 <Zara> the main thing would be some content; I think ttx wanted to write the first post. We could also do with a real domain for it.
19:32:19 <fungi> if there's an openstack.org dns name you want that's not already taken, i'm happy to set that up and point it wherever
19:32:42 <fungi> just give me a heads up. only takes a few seconds
19:33:00 <diablo_rojo> Oh nice. Okay Zara, what shall we name it?
19:33:31 * Zara is paralysed by choice
19:33:43 <Zara> 'storyboard-blog' is the working title
19:34:12 <Zara> (the other thing is to get it off gh-pages and onto non-proprietary infra that plays more nicely with pelican, but that's not a blocker)
19:35:23 <diablo_rojo> Ha ha I can see if ttx has an opinion on what it should be called. fungi any ideas?
19:35:34 <diablo_rojo> I'll have to ask him tomorrow though
19:35:39 <Zara> sure
19:36:08 <Zara> could call it boringstories
19:36:11 <fungi> i have a general no-bikeshedding policy. saves my time and sanity
19:36:14 <Zara> :)
19:36:30 <fungi> i'm fine with whatever others come up with there
19:36:46 <Zara> but we haven't even discussed fonts yet
19:37:06 <fungi> you want jeblair for any typesetting bikeshed
19:37:12 <diablo_rojo> Zara, YES
19:37:15 <diablo_rojo> FONTS!
19:37:22 <Zara> what have I done
19:37:59 <jeblair> comic sans ftw
19:38:35 <Zara> =D it's actually my favourite font; I'm not sure I'm human.
19:38:38 <jeblair> and papyrus for titles
19:39:01 <diablo_rojo> Zara, did you see the weird font I have for the text on my phone? Its beautiful :)
19:39:07 <diablo_rojo> jeblair, +1
19:39:10 <clarkb> I just did a console install of pfsense last night
19:39:18 <clarkb> the installer asked me what font I wanted for a console thing
19:39:27 <Zara> hahaha
19:39:29 <clarkb> I had like 100 choices too, it was a bit overwhelming
19:39:29 <diablo_rojo> Ha ha ha and fonts is what gets people talking.
19:39:37 <fungi> clarkb: i think that's standard to the *bsd installers
19:39:39 * clarkb stops distracting meeting now
19:39:41 <clarkb> fungi: nice!
19:39:42 <diablo_rojo> clarkb, the struggle is real
19:39:51 <Zara> oh, I like it when the meetings get distracted
19:40:03 <Zara> (but yeah, I think we have an idea of what we want in the first three posts (as seen in the hacky thing I linked), so then someone just has to write them, dohoho)
19:40:15 <fungi> clarkb: fwiw debian sort of does that too if you use the expert install with a framebuffer
19:40:35 <jeblair> we should totally start a cross-project font team
19:40:56 <Zara> I love typing on a terminal in ubuntu just to experience the font
19:41:04 <Zara> so +1 to that
19:41:13 <diablo_rojo> jeblair, such good ideas
19:42:33 <Zara> #topic Open Discussion
19:42:38 <SpamapS> o/
19:42:44 <SpamapS> So..
19:42:50 <SpamapS> I am going to try and get these recorded in a useful place
19:43:04 <SpamapS> But here is the idea I have for workboards.
19:43:38 <SpamapS> * I want to be able to have a workboard that automatically contains all items from one tag. However, I want to manually manage which lane every item is in.
19:44:27 <jeblair> ++ that seems like the missing link for me
19:44:28 <SpamapS> This is because as much as I like the idea of an automatic workboard with task statuses, there are things I want to represent in workboards that aren't task status (like, "blocked on <insert human>") so I can measure peoples' backlog.
19:44:52 <Zara> ah, so filters for boards, interesting.
19:45:09 <Zara> :)
19:45:10 <SpamapS> So what I'd love is that the workboard just always puts anything I haven't manually placed, in the first lane.
19:45:40 <SpamapS> I'll write this up as a spec
19:45:43 <SpamapS> I promise
19:45:45 <SpamapS> :)(
19:45:47 <SpamapS> second idea
19:45:50 <fungi> SpamapS: you would want the tasks from tagged stories auto-added? or you want task-level granularity for tags? (i think the latter is missing right now?)
19:46:25 <SpamapS> * Make the links to stories/tasks on workboards _links to stories and tasks_. Right now they open a little pane to the story/task, which means I can't just hover over the links and see story/task numbers.
19:46:27 <jeblair> i think tasks from tagged stories would be sufficient
19:46:53 <fungi> yeah, that seems like a fairly incremental step based on the current data model
19:47:12 <SpamapS> fungi: I would want the tasks from tagged stories auto-added. That way I have _one_ board that is "all the tasks for tag X"
19:47:24 <fungi> cool, just making sure
19:48:16 <SpamapS> I'd also accept the current plan for automatic boards with task status as lanes if we could add some task statuses, like 'blocked'.
19:48:21 <SpamapS> Finally...
19:48:35 <SpamapS> * Can haz names for projects instead of #'s?
19:48:47 <fungi> i thought that already got implemented
19:48:47 <jeblair> is there current wip on "the current plan for automatic boards with task status as lanes" ?
19:49:00 <SpamapS> storyboard.openstack.org/p/zuul  would be really nice rather than /p/679
19:49:22 <SpamapS> and second
19:49:29 <SpamapS> * Can haz links for searches?
19:49:47 <SpamapS> jeblair: I believe there's a spec for that plan.
19:49:51 <mordred> all use cases should start with "can haz"
19:49:58 <diablo_rojo> mordred, +1
19:51:18 <SpamapS> "Az a cat, can haz.." is the new story model.
19:51:18 * jeblair files away a note for april 1st
19:52:01 <Zara> so for tags at the task-level, there's no wip but I think we knew how we were going to do it. for cards-as-links, this is a bit of a 'different people want the exact opposite thing'; the panes arose as a result of complaints about the links (it's a pain if you click a link by accident)
19:52:54 <fungi> i'm failing now to find where we were tracking the friendly project urls bit
19:53:07 <fungi> coulda sworn that's come up regularly
19:53:22 <jeblair> dr jeblair says "if it hurts to click the links by accident, don't click the links by accident"
19:54:33 <Zara> well, you manually move cards via drag and drop, so it can happen pretty easily
19:55:07 <Zara> so ideally there's some other way to get numbers to display for those
19:55:11 <jeblair> so maybe a smaller direct-link icon or something?
19:55:26 <fungi> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/107 Storyboard should have human readable urls
19:55:30 <fungi> SpamapS: ^ that was it
19:55:45 <fungi> i guess that one's not implemented yet
19:56:17 <Zara> yeah, project urls aren't words yet
19:56:24 <Zara> more js experts would be handy for that ;)
19:56:37 <Zara> links for searches are in-progress
19:56:43 <Zara> SotK's reworking some patches for those
19:57:25 <fungi> fwiw, gerrit only semi-recently implemented names-instead-of-numbers for their group management urls
19:57:46 <fungi> they still default to using the integer index id but accept and translate group names in their place
19:58:09 <fungi> which is super handy
19:59:07 <jeblair> huh -- for the idea of a fully automatic board -- well, you can already create a board with a bunch of automatic lanes -- are we just missing the ability to add a filter that says "match *tasks* for a *story* tag?"
19:59:11 <fungi> there seems to be an assumption on the part of a lot of webui designers these days that users don't compose/edit their own urls
19:59:43 <Zara> jeblair: yeah, that was our understanding of it at least
20:00:04 <Zara> so it's not a very big thing
20:00:12 <jeblair> yeah, that's a lot closer than i thought
20:00:18 <fungi> looks like we're at time
20:00:26 <Zara> ah, thanks
20:00:28 <Zara> #endmeeting