14:05:29 <ttx> #startmeeting storyboard
14:05:29 <gothicmindfood> mordred says 10 more minutes is possible.
14:05:30 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Dec 19 14:05:29 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:05:31 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:05:33 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'
14:05:42 <SergeyLukjanov> o/
14:05:44 <ttx> Meeting agenda:
14:05:47 <ttx> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Meeting
14:06:02 <ttx> We'll slightly reorder to get to mordred's part once he is in
14:06:28 <ttx> #topic New contributors introductions
14:06:37 <ttx> krotscheck: care to introduce yourself ?
14:06:39 <krotscheck> HI EVERYONE!
14:06:43 <krotscheck> I'M AWAKE!
14:06:56 <ttx> and had a few coffees already I see
14:07:00 <gothicmindfood> krotscheck: incredible!
14:07:01 <krotscheck> My name's mike, I just joined the team from SEattle.
14:07:15 <ttx> krotscheck: hi, mike!
14:07:22 <ttx> krotscheck: what makes you tick ?
14:07:31 <krotscheck> My background most recently's very product focused, and I was working on a JS/Java/CouchDB stack for RosettaStone.
14:07:48 <krotscheck> In my spare time I do yoga and Brew wine.
14:08:13 <krotscheck> Aaaand... what makes me tick is a small ocillating quartz crystal.
14:08:19 <ttx> krotscheck: don't get me started with wine
14:08:42 <gothicmindfood> ttx and krotscheck and I will be dangerous wine people together, I think.
14:08:47 <krotscheck> I can't hold a candle to france, ttx  - I do more honey and fruit wines.
14:09:17 <ttx> krotscheck: you can read past meetings logs at http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/
14:09:22 <gothicmindfood> ttx: I ended up choosing my old school AOL/early 90s handle instead, but my IRC handle here was almost 'terroirist', btw.
14:09:29 <ttx> so I'll spare everyone from introducing themselves yet again
14:09:37 <krotscheck> You got it.
14:09:55 <ttx> so while we're waiting on mordred...
14:09:58 <ttx> #topic More pacific-friendly meeting time
14:10:31 <ttx> The trick is to be friendly both to our fellow Russians and the Pacific-oriented folks
14:10:43 <ttx> I think we can push back 2 hours later
14:10:47 <krotscheck> Of course - what are our UTC offsets?
14:10:54 <ttx> SergeyLukjanov, NikitaKonovalov: that would still work for you ?
14:11:13 <NikitaKonovalov> it will
14:11:13 <ttx> UTC+1/+2(DST)
14:11:16 <ruhe> it's 12 hours difference between Moscow and SF time zones
14:11:26 <SergeyLukjanov> it works for me too
14:11:31 <ttx> ruhe: and they are EAST of Moscow.
14:11:51 <gothicmindfood> So we'd be 8 AM, and the Russians would be 8 PM.
14:11:53 <ruhe> ttx, me too. we're all in the same room right now :)
14:11:57 <ttx> hahaha
14:12:11 <ttx> sounds like a reasonable trade-off
14:12:34 <ttx> krotscheck: would that work for you ?
14:12:38 <ttx> better than 6am I assume
14:12:42 <krotscheck> Indeed. gothicmindfood ?
14:12:50 <gothicmindfood> yup! That's fine.
14:13:05 <krotscheck> I was expecting a compromise to 7am to be honest, but I'll take what I can get.
14:13:06 <ttx> #agreed future meeting time shall be 1600 UTC
14:13:25 <ttx> we can change it again, or move to rotating if that doesn't work
14:13:45 <ttx> While we still wait for mordred...
14:13:48 <ttx> #topic Skip next two weeks meetings
14:14:01 <ttx> So, I hope everyone will have better things to do on the next two weeks
14:14:08 <ttx> than storyboarding
14:14:26 <ttx> so i propose we just skip the next two meetings
14:14:37 <krotscheck> Seems fair.
14:14:39 <gothicmindfood> I'm okay with that.
14:14:48 <ttx> although I could be convinced to run the Jan 2 one if people REALLY want it
14:15:12 <ttx> gothicmindfood: btw, any news of cody-somerville ? Looks like he disappeared
14:15:27 <ttx> I was happily delegating the organizational aspects of this thing to him
14:15:30 <NikitaKonovalov> I dont think Russian part will not be available Jan 2
14:15:32 <gothicmindfood> yeah, I figured he'd be here this AM
14:15:35 <gothicmindfood> but he's not.
14:15:46 <ttx> like I have the rest of openstack to organize already
14:15:53 <krotscheck> Cody was starting to come down with something, he might be sick.
14:15:59 <gothicmindfood> I will ping him on HPs line and check in and update him on everything.
14:16:21 <gothicmindfood> He also may know more about the sprint plans/availability than mordred, btw
14:16:32 <ttx> ok, that brings us to next point
14:16:42 <ttx> #topic Storyboard sprint status
14:17:07 <ttx> So last week we were trying to set up something just before FOSDEM in Brussels
14:17:15 <ttx> Like on the Thursday/Friday
14:17:37 <ttx> gothicmindfood: any news on that ?
14:17:50 <ttx> we were waiting on some HP travel approval
14:18:11 <ttx> NikitaKonovalov, SergeyLukjanov, ruhe: how is travel approval coming up on your side ?
14:18:19 <ttx> (if any?)
14:18:23 <gothicmindfood> gonna try to check up with mordred on that right now...
14:18:46 <ttx> gothicmindfood: are you some kind of IRC to SMS gateway ?
14:19:12 <ruhe> ttx, it's in progress. one of us should be there. i hope
14:19:44 <gothicmindfood> ttx: my powers extend to SMS and GChat. ;)
14:20:18 <ttx> For those who are not familiar with Brussels and FOSDEM... FOSDEM actaully happens in an isolated part of the city
14:20:52 <NikitaKonovalov> a kind of a special conference center?
14:21:13 <ttx> you WISH. No, some university.
14:21:44 <ttx> http://goo.gl/maps/6R1v3
14:22:13 <ttx> Two nice options for staying there:
14:22:26 <ttx> either be in the very touristic center...
14:23:39 <ttx> Like there: http://goo.gl/maps/Rjh6Y
14:24:14 <ttx> although I'd rather recommend staying between the two:
14:24:16 <ttx> http://goo.gl/maps/rBvyB
14:24:25 <mordred> sup bitches!
14:24:31 <ttx> ah, mordred
14:24:36 <gothicmindfood> Do we have to book space for a meeting room, ttx? (I'm looking around on the website and don't see)
14:24:41 <gothicmindfood> yo, mordred.
14:24:56 <ttx> I looked into a few options. Deepend how many of us sigbn up
14:25:15 <ttx> mordred: how is storyboard brussels sprint approval coming up ?
14:26:03 <mordred> ttx: let's just do it. if I get in trouble, I get in trouble
14:26:19 <ttx> mordred: any idea how many people we'll have ?
14:26:42 <ttx> we hope to have one person from the Russian side
14:26:50 <mordred> from HP? I'd say gothicmindfood, krotscheck and cody - maybe me
14:26:59 <mordred> what day is it again?
14:27:04 <gothicmindfood> feb 1/2
14:27:14 <ttx> FOSDEm is feb 1/2
14:27:24 <mordred> yeah. I believe I can make that
14:27:27 <ttx> the sprint would be on the Thursday/Friday before ?
14:27:46 <ttx> arrive by wednesday night or something ?
14:28:34 <ttx> or just 1+ day ?
14:29:15 <mordred> well, I mean, I probably won'
14:29:15 <ruhe> mordred, will other infra people be present on FOSDEM?
14:29:15 <ttx> i.e. arrive sometimes on Thursday and spend the whole Friday on it ?
14:29:28 <mordred> ruhe: not from my side
14:29:36 <ttx> I think I saw jog0 had a proposal up
14:29:37 <mordred> I do not know if jeblair is planning on going
14:29:46 <mordred> oh - well, maybe jog0 then
14:30:00 <gothicmindfood> two days might be good, I think. for storyboard people.
14:30:01 * ttx checks
14:30:50 <ttx> hmm, no , just Khai Do apparently
14:30:57 <mordred> neat
14:30:57 * krotscheck is ambivalent. Two days isn't bad.
14:31:15 <mordred> well, we can always just sit in a cafe near fosdem while fosdem is going on too
14:31:29 <ttx> mordred: that would assume there are cafes around FOSDEM.
14:31:37 <ttx> mordred: it's a very special setting :)
14:31:54 <ttx> but yeah, we can also talk storyboard DURING fosdem
14:32:11 * mordred doesn't believe that anywhere in brussels is far from a cafe
14:32:32 <gothicmindfood> true true. I figured we would be.
14:32:41 <gothicmindfood> (during FOSDEM, not just before)
14:33:02 <gothicmindfood> I also don't have to be back to the states now til Feb 4, so staying through 1/2 is no longer a problem.
14:33:45 <ttx> so.. two days ? one day ?
14:34:06 <ttx> I hear krotscheck / gothicmindfood not minding 2 days
14:34:18 <krotscheck> With no strong opinions, let's go for "More time with people is better"
14:34:21 <mordred> yeah - I'll come before and stay through the thing
14:35:15 <ttx> so, so planning to arrive on wednesday evening and spend two days on it
14:35:56 <gothicmindfood> arrive 29, 30/31 with the storyboard team, then. 1/2 for FOSDEM things.
14:35:56 <ttx> I'll come with some hotel recommendation. Must be my 6th FOSDEM or so and I still haven't found the perfect place :)
14:36:50 <ttx> #info Storyboard sprint in Brussels: arrive 29, sprint on 30/31
14:37:08 <ttx> #action ttx to announce it on #openstack-dev or #openstack-infra
14:37:27 <ttx> #topic Database model (Django vs. SQLAlchemy)
14:37:40 <ttx> so this was prompted by a discussion between cody and mordred
14:37:49 <mordred> yes!
14:37:53 <mordred> cody isn't here, so I win
14:37:59 <ttx> absent people always lose
14:38:01 <mordred> yup
14:38:05 * krotscheck has opinions
14:38:10 <mordred> uhoh
14:38:10 <ttx> ah! great
14:38:14 <krotscheck> ...which mostly agree with mordred
14:38:14 <ttx> an arbitrator
14:38:16 <mordred> yay!
14:38:28 <ttx> krotscheck: which of the 2 is your boss ?
14:38:46 <krotscheck> ttx, My cat is the boss of me.
14:38:47 <mordred> tl;dr from me - I think aligning with OpenStack and its people is more important than aligning with django people
14:39:21 <NikitaKonovalov> I also wanted to vote for sqlalchemy, but we are not having a vote for that
14:40:00 <ttx> I think being different might be an asset here, since we want to build a REST thing and a django thing on top of it
14:40:12 <krotscheck> The outstanding question from the code review is "do we use django for HTML rendering, which is where I have opinions.
14:40:19 <ttx> rather than some super django-combo
14:40:49 <mordred> I'm not sure we want to use django
14:41:00 <mordred> as in, I'm not sure that's an important feature
14:41:08 <mordred> I think we DEFINITELY want a rest interface
14:41:18 <NikitaKonovalov> actually I spent some time on angular.js and it's pretty caapable of sending REST requests
14:41:19 * ttx likes django but is always open to suggestions
14:41:21 <mordred> and I'm pretty sure we want a web interface
14:41:35 <NikitaKonovalov> AFAIK Horizon is moving to angular
14:41:45 <mordred> but if the rest server thing is solid, then we can make UI choices more fluidly
14:41:54 <ttx> NikitaKonovalov: angular is not orthogonal to django (or SemanticUI for that respect)
14:41:57 <mordred> whereas if we pick rest tech based on UI tech, I think it's the wrong direction
14:42:06 <NikitaKonovalov> agree
14:42:29 <NikitaKonovalov> django can serve a .js file, and browser well do the rest
14:42:37 <ttx> so far the long-term consensus around UI was some semanticUI+angular.js-powered UI
14:42:39 <krotscheck> Well, actually, I disagree with that, ttx - both django and angular try to take over the html rendering authority
14:42:54 <krotscheck> So if we do that, there's not much left of django that we ened.
14:43:02 <mordred> yah
14:43:12 <NikitaKonovalov> apache can serve static files better :)
14:43:16 <mordred> ++
14:43:35 <mordred> apache very good at static files - look at status.o.o/zuul for example
14:43:49 <ttx> krotscheck: what would be your approach ?
14:44:04 <NikitaKonovalov> zuul makes my notebook fans go crazy, btw
14:44:06 <mordred> krotscheck: you should send ttx a link to the thing you showed me on your phone
14:44:45 <krotscheck> I'd stand up a REST service and iterate independently of any of the UX clients. Given that we'll want an IRC client, a web client, a lib/cli client, that makes a bit more sense to me.
14:45:18 <krotscheck> If we go all-static-files in browser, we can even CDN the client source.
14:46:00 <SergeyLukjanov> krotscheck, agreed, CDN for client source sounds pretty good
14:46:04 * ttx needs to update web development skills to 2014
14:46:04 <krotscheck> I'm somewhat undecided on the layout framework, though I have a preference for Bootstrap (since it's backed by a corp) over Semantic (which is backed by one guy)
14:46:18 <krotscheck> http://data.krotscheck.net
14:47:00 <krotscheck> That's an AngularJS/Bootstrap/REST app
14:47:17 <krotscheck> Feel free to rescale the browser.
14:48:06 <krotscheck> (The backend is jersey/tomcat, but meh)
14:48:32 <SergeyLukjanov> I have some experience with bootstrap + angular.js and it was really good
14:49:06 <ttx> choice between bootstrap and semanticUI is obviously influenced by our capability to have the main dev on board or not
14:49:11 <ttx> mordred: how is that going btw ?