17:00:47 #startmeeting Security 17:00:48 Meeting started Thu Jul 9 17:00:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hyakuhei. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:49 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 17:00:52 The meeting name has been set to 'security' 17:00:57 o/ 17:00:58 hi 17:01:01 o/ 17:01:02 \o 17:01:02 o/ 17:01:08 o/ 17:01:09 o/ 17:01:12 o/ 17:01:31 Hi all 17:01:45 Hey, what a great crowd we have today :) 17:01:50 \o/ 17:02:18 * sicarie sneaks in late 17:02:45 Hi everyone 17:02:53 ugly bunch. 17:02:55 Agenda for today: 17:02:55 Anchor 17:02:55 Bandit 17:02:55 Infra Changes 17:02:55 Formalizing Meeting Process 17:02:56 MidCycle 17:02:56 Crypto BootStrap 17:02:57 hello 17:03:10 OSSN parsing tools 17:03:22 update on API testing 17:04:17 Great 17:04:29 So reminder that the Agenda is over here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/OpenStackSecurity#Agenda_for_next_meeting 17:05:09 Lots to get through today, lets start 17:05:12 #topic Anchor 17:05:32 regarding the change to the API that is pending atm 17:05:33 There's a patch in flight that includes an API change - not a problem as it's not used that much atm 17:05:40 yeah that 17:05:49 More the function I wanted peoples opinion on 17:05:58 is it worth realeasing a version that uses the old api, and a version that uses the new API 17:06:13 i wouldn't think so 17:06:14 Anchor makes it easy to do siloed PKI (deploying multiple CAs) 17:06:31 i.e. 1.0 is old, 2.0 is new, or something, so its clear that there is a change and which one you are getting 17:06:44 with regards to the change, I like it 17:06:46 dg_: We don't have any tagged releases atm 17:06:48 otoh, have you considerd some sort of microversions to allow either? 17:06:55 but feedback is that it's actually annoyingly complicated to stand up lots of the same service 17:07:26 A short amount of pain for current users feels reasonable to get onto well versioned API support in the future. 17:07:45 The patch will allow a single Anchor instance to sign with multiple CAs 17:08:23 So you can do cryptographic separation of trust but with a single Anchor instance. I prefer proper silo's but this is a good middle ground 17:08:45 Anyone think it's a really bad idea? 17:08:54 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190473/ 17:09:04 ^ There's the link if anyone wants to take a look 17:09:27 o/ 17:09:50 hi tkelsey - we're talking Anchor, I just brought up the big patch that changes the API. Anything else to discuss before we roll on to bandit? 17:10:06 ah right, nothing on my radat 17:10:08 *radar 17:10:09 hyakuhei: No, it's a fine idea for certain situations 17:10:19 Quick one on Anchor, I wanted to propose that the project moves to global-requirements managed requirements.txt, rather than self managed. This is how all well integrated OpenStack projects manage their requirements. Tracked via bug #1472540 . 17:10:19 bug 1472540 in Anchor "Anchor doesn't follow global-requirements contracts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472540 - Assigned to Dave Walker (davewalker) 17:10:19 We did something similar in Dogtag 17:10:21 I've pushed up two WIP branches to do it, and Stan has made a first attempt at making openstack/requirements match our needs 17:10:24 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bug/1472540,n,z 17:10:32 tkelsey: I thought we had Bandit jobs running on Anchor but I don't see anything in the Jenkins checks on gerrit 17:10:38 Daviey: +1 17:10:50 hyakuhei: run "check experimental" 17:10:54 Thanks Daviey 17:11:06 if you want separation, use multiple instances. If you don't need complete separation, use multiple signing certs in one instance. 17:11:20 you guys are still experimental? get with the times, "voting" is where it's at :) 17:11:33 nkinder: That's my thinking too but I wanted a sanity check 17:11:35 lol yeah, when I have some spare cycles I'll sort that 17:11:37 tmcpeak: +1 17:11:53 tmcpeak: ^^ 17:12:01 #topic Bandit 17:12:03 sweet 17:12:12 tkelsey is dropping patches like a madman 17:12:19 so I got patch happy on Bandit over the last few days 17:12:28 yea, tkelsey++ 17:12:32 https://review.openstack.org/199249 17:12:34 #link https://review.openstack.org/199249 17:12:42 some interesting changes and improvements 17:12:43 #link https://review.openstack.org/199548 17:12:50 thanks tmcpeak 17:12:54 #link https://review.openstack.org/199582 17:13:07 I will get my review of them done today, promise... 17:13:09 and Stan did this: https://review.openstack.org/199927 17:13:21 i'll take a look also 17:13:24 one thing to think about is the removal of the statement buffer, and the concept of a "statement" interested parties please way in on that in the review 17:13:25 so basically, Tim has put up "removing Statement Buffer" which is big, makes the code tons cleaner 17:13:33 "Faster Bandit" which is just plain cool 17:13:40 and a new test for Except with pass 17:13:43 lol I like Stans patch. 17:13:54 yeah, for sure 17:14:01 Stan's patch is simple but really useful 17:14:08 tmcpeak: +1 17:14:22 I'd like to roll a new version sooner than later when this stuff lands 17:14:31 I think faster cleaner Bandit can benefit all 17:14:36 no reason to wait 2 months for another 17:14:40 :) 17:14:41 I'm the key "statement" proponent :) 17:15:03 so reviewsies all around 17:15:09 yes, ukbelch is pro-statement, hence looking for a discussion on this 17:15:09 apparently I'm the only one who cares about that bit :P 17:15:12 hoping to get this stuff landed today so we can beat tomorrow's move to #openstack 17:15:38 bknudson: you around? 17:15:45 tmcpeak: from stackforge to openstack? 17:15:47 I think I need to put in the keystone bandit.conf a note that says what version it's written for 17:15:48 ah yes, thats a good point, we go "openstack" tomorrow :) 17:15:52 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197672/ 17:15:54 ^ 17:15:56 yep 17:16:03 bknudson: how's the voting keystone gate working out? 17:16:09 tmcpeak: no complaints 17:16:14 sweet 17:16:23 bknudson: awesome :) 17:16:29 bknudson: Has it caught anything that we know of? 17:16:29 tkelsey: you get anywhere with a list of projects using Bandit? 17:16:51 well i emailed -dev 17:17:08 but only got one resp back, cinder uses it as a tox target but not in the gate 17:17:13 ahh ok cool 17:17:27 would be nice to track efforts to integrate with projects, maybe we can work this at the midcycle 17:17:32 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/068541.html 17:17:34 yeah 17:17:47 also I talked to Jelle - the guy that did the XML output, and he said archlinux is looking to bundle Bandit 17:17:50 so that's pretty cool 17:17:53 thanks Daviey 17:17:58 tmcpeak: That's awesome. 17:18:05 nice 17:18:06 more the merrier :) 17:18:14 tkelsey: cinder doesn't yet. patch still in review 17:18:27 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/179568/ 17:18:28 ah ok, thanks browne 17:18:34 browne: you're also working on Nova, right? 17:18:38 yep 17:18:48 sweet 17:19:00 both have one +2, but looks like i have a merge conflict on cinder 17:19:07 ahh ok 17:19:27 cool, so that's good progress for Bandit this week 17:19:33 Excellent 17:19:35 browne: excellent work 17:19:35 anybody else have anything they want to bring up for it? 17:19:37 For giggles, I might try and run it against cinder. 17:19:44 err, glance, rather 17:20:06 So next up I was going to mention the infra changes but that came up during this discussion so we'll roll onto the next agenda item 17:20:13 #topic OpenStack Security Guide 17:20:20 sicarie: What's occuring? 17:20:32 Lots of fun 17:20:41 we have the specs repo set up (thanks pdesai) 17:20:48 \o/ 17:20:48 so we're going to upload a bp for the rst migration 17:21:25 other than that, we're going to try to plan for a way to break subjects down a bit easier so that we can try to do a sprint during the mid-cycle 17:21:30 and that's about it right now 17:21:43 #topic Infra Changes 17:21:57 So as well us getting the namespace moved for Anchor/Bandit 17:22:06 We also now have a specs-repo for security things 17:22:11 woot 17:22:24 oh we are under openstack now? 17:22:25 #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/security-specs 17:22:33 keep up dg_! 17:22:51 you'll be telling me the date has changed next! 17:22:58 that namespace shift will be happening at the gerrit level on Friday, July 10th, at 22:00 UTC 17:23:01 It needed cores, I've set it up so that Anchor,Bandit and Security-Doc cores are there initially 17:23:13 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-July/068848.html 17:23:13 Is that ok with everyone? 17:23:40 seems legit to me.. 17:23:46 Cool 17:23:56 So we should probably organise the repo somehow 17:23:58 LGTM 17:24:12 Is it dumb to just have a directory for each major project? 17:24:45 i dont think so 17:24:52 yeah, I think that approach is fine 17:25:01 do we want them per release? 17:25:07 no. the easier things are to find, the more likely they are to be used 17:25:14 +1 17:25:16 Cool 17:25:25 We can always refactor later if it gets messy I guess 17:25:26 hyakuhei: By simple project, or ./release/project ? 17:25:26 i guess project/release dir structure is easy enough 17:25:44 +1 17:26:06 ok, so ./release/project seems sensible 17:26:07 Other projects do $release first 17:26:14 right. 17:26:18 fair 17:26:20 looking around that's probably going to be specs/release/project 17:26:27 because there's a few other things we'll want in the root 17:26:30 readme's etc 17:26:39 yea 17:26:49 Ok cool, I'll make the change later today 17:27:02 #action hyakuhei to setup basic repo layout 17:27:09 sicarie: are you happy with that? 17:27:18 nkinder: you too (for OSSN ) 17:27:27 hyakuhei: yep, works for me 17:27:29 yep 17:27:41 great, what's best practice regarding casing, all lower? 17:27:46 yes, I think so 17:27:55 great. 17:28:18 #topic OSSN 17:28:23 nkinder: ^ 17:28:53 so I failed to pick up an OSSN last week, will try again this coming week 17:29:05 tkelsey: no problem 17:29:15 I saw that Daviey picked one up (thanks!) 17:29:24 nkinder: Actually 2 :) 17:29:28 nice 17:29:30 I successfully picked one up and did nothing on it 17:29:36 ...then thanks*2 17:29:39 I've been working on an OSSN parsing tool 17:29:42 They were closely linked and i hard to learn the detail of them both to work on one, so i thought i might aswell do both :) 17:30:13 At first, I was looking at having us write notes in YAML, which we could then output to various formats (text for e-mail, wiki markup, etc.) 17:30:17 I have acquired an option on one of the OSSN issues 17:30:22 :P 17:30:25 nkinder: Is the intention to stay with the current pretty open format or to move to something 'parsable' ? 17:30:27 writing notes in YAML doesn't really work well 17:30:37 nkinder: how come? 17:30:38 ...for various reasons of formatting 17:30:43 That's how the cool kids on the VMT do it. 17:30:57 We do all sorts of example snippets, etc. 17:31:11 true 17:31:15 it seems more error prone to write in YAML, and a larger barrier to entry for no benefit 17:31:21 hmm yeah - YAML doesn't have a triple quoted option or something? 17:31:21 The reason we wanted YAML is for parsing 17:31:35 We can parse without YAML, which is what I've done 17:31:45 cool 17:31:47 hyakuhei: Making it able to parse might actually be more complicated than is helpful atm, as I am certain more fields will want to be added as they evolve.. 17:31:50 gmurphy: ^ 17:31:51 I pushed up what I have thus far - https://github.com/nkinder/ossn-tools 17:32:16 Daviey: We want it to be parseable so we can have tools that can check OSSNs against a config file that represents a particular deployment 17:32:19 Daviey: you might be right, but they've been going for a few years now, evolution isn't going to be fast 17:32:28 an "am I vulnerable" tool is my ultimate goal 17:32:29 And we want to be able to index them, do smart things 17:32:33 nkinder: +1 17:32:38 +1 17:32:47 or "I'm running $release - what should I be aware of" 17:32:55 nice idea 17:32:59 So, I can parse them with the ossn.py module in my repo, then output in a few forms (including YAML) 17:33:11 Here is an example with elmiko's recent note.... 17:33:23 http://paste.openstack.org/raw/359070/ 17:33:37 I'm guessing that would mean there's an intermediate step of verification/tweaking before publishing? 17:33:38 This is just dumping the parsed OSSN with repr() 17:33:39 nkinder: Is it expected that old notes should be revisited to add this useful data? 17:33:40 ^such a thing would be fine 17:33:52 Daviey: it already works with old notes though 17:33:56 ...but yes, we can update them 17:34:12 nkinder: Sorry, i meant adding search strings for configs etc. 17:34:28 interesting how in discussion the list alternates using " and ' 17:35:02 or does it just use ' unless it can't 17:35:17 tmcpeak: most likely 17:35:36 anyway it's pretty cool stuff nkinder 17:35:37 so we get nice lists that are easily manipulated/searched in python 17:35:48 Yeah nice work nkinder thank you 17:35:55 agreed, nkinder++ 17:35:56 I split otu known releases and services from other free-form stuff in the affected releases section 17:36:13 ...because we do thinks like say "all of the things" for issues like POODLE 17:36:23 We need to build out more functions on or as children of security.openstack.org 17:36:28 This being one of the main ones 17:36:36 spitting out to YAML looks like this - http://paste.openstack.org/raw/359071/ 17:36:46 hyakuhei: that would be awesome 17:37:28 I'm sort of at a point where I don't think we should care about it being YAML, as I coudl just write a tool with what I have already to allow for finding all notes that affect a certain release+service 17:37:44 this is true.. so what format would you like it to live in nkinder? 17:37:44 I'd rather chase use-cases than formats 17:37:47 yea, probably not worht worrying about the yaml 17:37:50 the same one they are now 17:37:57 nkinder: fancy pushing test.py up somewhere, i'd like to test it on the ones i am writing now 17:38:10 Daviey: it's in my github repo 17:38:14 super 17:38:17 fair enough, as long as we can parse it reliably should be good 17:38:31 the other thing we can use it for is to slurp in a note, then spit it back out in text form 17:38:38 this would handle line-wrapping, etc. 17:38:56 that might be a good gate check. See if the input == output 17:39:07 I think standardizing on some format has advantages like allowing other people to write tools that don't have to depend on some intermediate tool but if we setup the CI so that when an OSSN was accepted it got dumped out into the repo (via your tool) in some other formats (like you've demonstrated just now) that'd be perfectly acceptable 17:40:25 yeah, sounds good 17:40:43 cool - good work nkinder 17:40:53 @all we need to get more of these OSSN processed 17:41:10 #topic MidCycle 17:41:42 I updated the dates on the wiki... it said "Seattle" for the month and "Mon-Thu" for the days 17:41:43 It would be good to get more people involved, I'm keen to get some other companies sending people 17:41:51 thanks bknudson 17:42:15 i will have time before next week to start helping out 17:42:20 hyakuhei: +1 17:42:44 bring your friends! 17:42:49 i'd really like to go, just not sure if it's possible :/ 17:44:20 I hope my boss will say "yes" 17:44:21 elmiko: Don't be afraid to hold your breath until they say you can 17:44:36 We're a proper project now after all. Just think of all the glory you'll get 17:44:43 lol! 17:44:48 ok next up 17:44:52 #topic API Testing 17:44:55 hyakuhei: +1 17:44:55 michaelxin: ^^ 17:45:12 ok 17:45:25 We have two developers working on the PoC 17:45:47 They will have it ready this week. 17:45:58 michaelxin: what's the approach? 17:45:59 nice 17:46:06 That's great, I can't wait to see it 17:46:10 We will test, bug-fix, update documents. 17:46:37 Then, can we push it stack forge? 17:46:57 sounds good 17:47:00 Seems like a good idea 17:47:30 Looking forward to seeing what you've come up with 17:47:40 Anything else to add? 17:47:51 likewise 17:48:02 #topic Meeting process 17:48:03 I will be gone in next four weeks 17:48:18 mvaldes will keep giving updates 17:48:29 Cool, thanks michaelxin, mvaldes 17:48:29 :) 17:48:30 cool 17:48:32 He will lead the efforts to make this available. 17:48:45 So I wanted to talk for a moment about meeting process. 17:49:02 The minutes from each meeting get linked to our meeting page some time after we finish 17:49:09 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/OpenStackSecurity#2015 17:49:19 It would be good to start using some more of the meetbot features 17:49:37 you mean like action, info, etc? 17:49:41 what you have in mind? 17:49:41 #link http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#user-reference 17:49:56 if there's already a link on http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/ then do we need to link again on the wiki page? 17:49:59 So using more actions, idea tags 17:50:13 +1 17:50:14 Sounds reasonable. 17:50:25 i like that a lot 17:50:34 bknudson: Just makes it easier to find but no, probably not, it's just "what we've always done" 17:50:44 good to see you're finally jumping on teh hashtag bandwagon, hyakuhei.. 17:50:59 #bandwagon 17:51:05 #idea until we get used to them, I'll try to drop a link to the meetbot reference at the start of meetings 17:51:15 ^ see what I did there? 17:51:20 #vote 17:51:38 Whilst on this subject... 17:51:39 sicarie: I can't remember, was it agreed to creating a meeting entry for Doc's on openstack-infra/irc-meetings? 17:51:39 bknudson: you totally made me search that page lol 17:52:20 (ie formalising it) 17:52:23 Daviey: yes I tried to hit the doc team meeting this week and managed to miss both 17:52:38 Of particular use might be the #chair and #unchair commands. 17:52:39 There is a page that currently exists with "specialty" doc meeting info, we're the only one not populated :( 17:52:43 sicarie: Sorry, I mean the monday security one. 17:53:12 haha 17:53:24 Yep, I actualy have half an email drafted to the doc team lead to make sure there's nothing I missed 17:53:33 #unchair 17:53:34 #unchair 17:53:35 sicarie: nice 17:53:38 :\ doesn't work 17:53:39 lol 17:53:45 sicarie: Does it involve their input? 17:54:20 (We can take this offline) 17:54:22 Daviey: not really, they just know where all those pages are that should be updated 17:54:29 ah right 17:54:59 EOF 17:55:13 Ok lets move to AOB 17:55:18 #topic Any Other Business 17:55:45 keystone mid-cycle is next week 17:56:03 Cool, let us know if anything exciting happens or if assistance is required with anything! 17:56:15 #info I'm taking a couple of weeks vacation, any volunteers to run things here in my absence? 17:56:25 I can take it 17:56:53 Excellent 17:57:08 when are you out and back? 17:57:16 #agree tmcpeak to lead Security meetings in hyakuhei's absence 17:57:26 make sure to use lots of #tags. It'll make chair6 happy 17:57:33 oh yeah, I'm all about tags 17:57:41 i think you meant #agreed? 17:57:46 It's aliased 17:58:01 chair6: trying to school me twice eh? 17:58:04 lol 17:58:12 he smells weakness 17:58:15 ok anything else? 17:58:26 Remember to throw things in the agenda for next week 17:58:38 #chair tmcpeak 17:58:38 Current chairs: hyakuhei tmcpeak 17:58:43 #unchair hyakuhei 17:58:44 Current chairs: hyakuhei tmcpeak 17:58:50 well that half worked. 17:59:03 :P 17:59:10 tmcpeak: want to close it down? 17:59:14 #endmeeting