21:00:44 <oneswig> #startmeeting scientific-wg
21:00:45 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Aug 23 21:00:44 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00:46 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:00:49 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'
21:01:03 <oneswig> hello!  How are y'all?
21:01:08 <trandles> o/
21:01:15 <priteau> Good evening oneswig
21:01:23 <julian1> Hi!
21:01:30 <oneswig> priteau: trandles: julian1: hello!
21:01:31 <julian1> All good.
21:01:43 <julian1> How about yourselves?
21:01:49 <oneswig> not 3 bad :-)
21:02:07 <oneswig> blairo sends his apologies.
21:02:28 <oneswig> I think he's back from vacation next week
21:02:38 <oneswig> Lets get rolling
21:02:54 <oneswig> #link Agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_August_23rd_2016
21:03:16 <oneswig> #topic Planning for WG events in Barcelona
21:03:36 <oneswig> Is everyone planning to go?
21:03:52 <priteau> I am planning to go
21:04:03 <julian1> Sadly not.
21:04:04 <trandles> still waiting on travel approval :(
21:04:26 <julian1> My institution only pays for in-country conferences.
21:04:33 <oneswig> julian1: apologies for that.  Hopefully it'll be good from afar...
21:04:54 <oneswig> BTW there are travel grants, for governments, non-profits and charities IIRC?
21:05:05 <julian1> Thanks oneswig. Yup, I will be living vicariously through irc.
21:05:14 <trandles> I thought the grants were only for students but I might be wrong about that.
21:05:32 <oneswig> trandles: you are probably correct, I never qualified so don't know the details
21:05:48 <oneswig> (as in, I never qualified for the grant, not qualified as a student...)
21:06:11 <trandles> haha
21:06:27 <oneswig> anyway, back in Austin there was a session which was quite busy and hard to make constructive
21:06:40 <oneswig> There were ~100 people there, for 40 minutes!
21:06:45 <priteau> it's not just students as far as I know
21:06:46 <priteau> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Travel_Support_Program
21:06:51 <oneswig> thanks priteau
21:07:29 <priteau> but the deadline was August 8
21:07:40 <trandles> In theory that wg session was a nice idea.  In practice there were too many people.
21:07:49 <trandles> or not enough structure...
21:08:08 <oneswig> For the WG sessions I was thinking we should do some short BoFs on the 4 activity areas, running consecutively
21:08:25 <oneswig> If we have time pressure, perhaps pick 2
21:08:57 <oneswig> In some way this might bring together all the discussions and activities of WG members over the cycle
21:09:32 <oneswig> Thoughts on that?
21:09:48 <priteau> oneswig: I wasn't at the Austin summit, but I think it's a good idea to have focused discussions
21:10:23 <oneswig> Thanks priteau, good point, last time there wasn't really time to sharpen focus on anything
21:10:33 <trandles> +1 the idea.  Consecutively would be nice but if that's not possible maybe parallel with an executive summary session to bring the 4 back together?
21:11:10 <oneswig> trandles: Right, Id prefer consecutive sessions over concurrently-running sessions, I think some people might want to be in more than one
21:11:36 <oneswig> What's the best way to organise a BoF?
21:11:54 <martial> I agree, last time was a little hard to 1) know where to go and 2) so many people and the room acoustics was not that great
21:12:31 <oneswig> Thanks martial, it was a bit like that
21:12:43 <trandles> oneswig: there's actually an RFC on BOFs
21:12:46 <trandles> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5434
21:12:58 <oneswig> Ooh
21:13:36 <oneswig> Quite a big RFC it turns out...
21:14:09 <oneswig> Can you summarise what you've seen to work well?  I was wondering whether we should do lightning talks, panel, open discussion, all 3?
21:14:53 <oneswig> I just saw a part about posting a CFP on the mailing list - that would make good sense
21:15:43 <trandles> Unfortunately I haven't had great experiences at BoFs.  They need some good organization and focus to be productive.
21:15:45 <martial_> do you think we would be able to get 4 rooms ? there was quite a few people per topic and some people wanted to be in more than one discussion
21:16:17 <martial_> meeting in the corridor on Friday was fun (the lack of chairs less so :) )
21:16:33 <oneswig> I think they are more constrained for rooms in Barcelona, that's all I know right now
21:17:07 <trandles> Do you want the BoF to be a generic "sharing of stories" or something more targeted?
21:17:28 <oneswig> If we were able to get room for two sessions, which two?  Parallel filesystems, bare metal, accounting/scheduling or user stories?
21:17:50 <oneswig> trandles: I have something more like sharing of stories in mind, what about you?
21:18:03 <martial_> I think the first two were the ones with the most participants last times ?
21:18:34 <oneswig> martial_: I'd go along with that, there's more of a defined problem with those two for people to get around as well.
21:18:41 <priteau> I am interested in bare metal of course, but wouldn't it duplicate with meetings from both Ironic developers and OpenStack operators?
21:19:04 <trandles> oneswig: if the BoF is sharing of stories then it could/should be captured and used to fulfill the user stories focus area for the WG.
21:19:35 <oneswig> priteau: ideally we'd get some of the Ironic people to join in.  And it would be dumb if we scheduled so there was a conflict.  Something to bear i mind
21:20:10 <oneswig> trandles: good point, yes
21:20:11 <anteaya> there will be space and time conflicts, it is unavoidable
21:20:21 <oneswig> Hi anteaya
21:20:25 <anteaya> mostly select your priorities in decending order
21:20:26 <oneswig> thanks for joining
21:20:30 <anteaya> hey oneswig
21:20:32 <anteaya> welcome
21:20:41 <anteaya> and then the organizers can do their best
21:20:49 <anteaya> noone will get everything they want
21:20:59 <anteaya> hopefully everyone will get something in their top 3
21:21:18 <oneswig> anteaya: I'll do that and when the request goes out I'll try to flag up some of the conflicts to avoid with the main conference trac
21:21:36 <anteaya> yeah, I would talk to thingee and ttx early
21:21:45 <anteaya> so they are aware of your priorities
21:21:54 <anteaya> and they will try to do their best for you
21:21:56 <oneswig> OK thanks I'd not thought of approaching them
21:22:02 <anteaya> but no promises
21:22:14 <oneswig> indeed
21:22:19 <anteaya> if they aren't the folks to help you they will find the right person for you
21:22:30 <anteaya> but they are a good starting point
21:23:07 <oneswig> I think with some BOF sessions, the actual committee proceedings will be pretty short.  I like the idea of some separation between them
21:23:22 <martial_> last time, the room was pretty full too
21:23:37 <anteaya> martial_: rooms will be full this time too
21:23:41 <oneswig> martial_: it was massive :-)
21:23:46 <anteaya> hopefully boston will be more roomy
21:24:51 <oneswig> There's also discussion on an evening social.
21:24:59 <anteaya> good idea
21:25:00 <oneswig> Last time there was an informal plan.
21:25:26 <oneswig> Perhaps we should plan something
21:25:49 <martial_> I guess the mailing list is a good way to plan this :)
21:25:57 <oneswig> It's also possible we might get vendors to contribute some beer
21:26:54 <oneswig> Does anybody object to me enquiring on that?
21:27:15 <priteau> oneswig: it would be good to synchronize with the Ops Meetup as well to avoid conflicts, but they don't have any info online yet: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Operations/Meetups
21:27:26 <oneswig> anteaya: do you know more?
21:27:27 <priteau> the planning etherpad is empty
21:27:52 <oneswig> They have a meetup in NYC this Thursday - anyone going?
21:28:08 <anteaya> oneswig: do I know more about getting sponsors for an evening event?
21:28:29 <oneswig> anteaya: sorry, no, do you know if the ops have an evening social planned?
21:28:30 <anteaya> or do I know more about objections to you getting sponsors?
21:28:38 <anteaya> ah, I have no idea
21:28:50 <anteaya> fifield is your best person there
21:28:54 <anteaya> he would know
21:29:02 <oneswig> anteaya: OK thanks, I'll check
21:29:06 <anteaya> or co-ordinate if that is the best path
21:29:08 <anteaya> sure
21:29:12 <oneswig> Better note some of these, hold on
21:29:20 <anteaya> this meeting is logged
21:29:49 <oneswig> ... any objections for the record?
21:29:58 <anteaya> #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-meeting/%23openstack-meeting.2016-08-23.log.html
21:30:21 <oneswig> That'll recurse off to infinity!
21:30:43 <oneswig> Hopefully infra's made of stronger stuff
21:30:47 <oneswig> :-)
21:30:52 <anteaya> we are fairly hearty
21:31:24 <oneswig> OK was there anything more to mention re: Barcelona?
21:31:43 <trandles> any ETA on talk acceptance
21:32:00 <trandles> that's the kind of thing that often breaks loose travel approvals
21:32:17 <anteaya> trandles: you can contact the foundation directly
21:32:37 <oneswig> trandles: The deadline for selection was Monday, I think the Foundation were going to let people know imminently
21:32:37 <anteaya> in the past the selection committee took most of august to go through submissions
21:32:41 <trandles> cool, thanks
21:33:07 <martial_> I was wondering ... seems very researchy ... how about posters sessions for the scientific working group for people to talk about their work ?
21:33:24 <anteaya> martial_: the problem is the space to put them
21:33:30 <martial_> would be a great social opportunity
21:33:32 <oneswig> martial_: as a format for the BOF or generally?
21:33:43 <anteaya> if you want to put things virually and share the links in an etherpad that would work
21:33:51 <martial_> oneswig: as an add on in a way
21:34:29 <martial_> anteaya: that might be good, not "talk" talk but would help with the user story component and then we can do the filesystem/baremetal
21:34:38 <anteaya> sure
21:34:39 <oneswig> I think if we can get enough contributors it might work.  Posters might get less uptake than a lightning talk though?
21:34:55 <anteaya> the issue with the summit is anything one group does all the vendors want to do too
21:35:02 <anteaya> and wall space doesn't scale
21:35:09 <anteaya> where as urls do
21:35:09 <martial_> true
21:35:40 <martial_> I just feel like most of the swg people have great ideas and tests that they are ready to discuss if given the chance
21:35:48 <martial_> (last time was a great example of that)
21:36:02 <anteaya> it almost might be worthwhile for the swg to have its own meetup
21:36:14 <anteaya> then you can do posters since you have the venue
21:36:14 <martial_> and as such giving them an opportunity to do so in a "social" mode might help
21:36:15 <oneswig> OK how about take it to the user-committee
21:36:35 <martial_> (just a crazy thought)
21:36:47 <anteaya> martial_: it is a good thought
21:36:56 <oneswig> anteaya: I think we are - if the BOFs count as that
21:36:57 <anteaya> martial_: just finding the right venue is the trick
21:37:07 <martial_> oneswig: how does that work ? happy to try to help if I can
21:37:25 <anteaya> oneswig: well except you are alloted space by someone else
21:37:41 <anteaya> where as if you had your own meetup like the ops meetup in manchester you have the space
21:37:54 <anteaya> but anyway, I'm likely getting ahead of the group
21:37:57 <anteaya> sorry about that
21:38:45 <oneswig> anteaya: that's a possibility but perhaps you're right its ahead of where we are today.  Cost justifications for travel might be tricky for example, would need to put on a compelling event
21:38:55 <anteaya> agreed
21:39:09 <anteaya> so again, finding the right balance
21:39:16 <oneswig> Let's move forward, thanks for all the ideas
21:39:40 <oneswig> #topic UX Interviews on quota management
21:39:58 <oneswig> OK, just wanted to make people aware given this has come up a few times in WG meetings
21:40:04 <oneswig> Admittedly mostly in the other timezone
21:40:28 <oneswig> There's an effort by some people to gather views on improving quota management.
21:40:32 <oneswig> Hold on, I'll post a link
21:40:44 <oneswig> #link quota management mail http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2016-August/001186.html
21:41:22 <oneswig> Previous WG discussions have focused on the difficulties of managing both personal quotas and group quotas in a hierarchical manner
21:41:55 <oneswig> I wanted to make sure that if there were people in the WG who have pain points here, this is the opportunity to make them clear!
21:42:47 <oneswig> I think that's all I had on this - they are looking for input up to the end of the month IIRC
21:43:43 <martial_> I saw the deadline as yesterday, nothing from me
21:44:08 <oneswig> Ah, isn't it end of this week?
21:44:51 <uxdanielle> Hi there! Yes, we have someone scheduled in the first week of September, so any time before 9/7 works
21:45:28 <oneswig> Thanks uxdanielle!  Can you shed any light on how the interviews work?  What kind of information are you looking for?
21:46:29 <uxdanielle> Interviews are 45 minutes long - we are simply trying to learn about how people manage quotas, so we can understand what the pain points are
21:47:10 <uxdanielle> The findings will be used for user stories, and feedback will be provided to teams working to improve quotas
21:47:50 <oneswig> And user stories will find their way to the PTLs of the right projects, I guess?
21:47:56 <uxdanielle> Earlier this week we've asked people to describe their cloud and how they set up and modify quotas
21:48:32 <anteaya> oneswig: that is the theory, however talk to a few ptls and ask them how many user stories they have seen or accessed
21:49:05 <uxdanielle> Yes, I've met with some folks that have weighed in on the questions of the interviews, so they will hopefully get some useful information from this :)
21:49:23 <anteaya> I do hope folks in the swg are attending project weekly meetings of the projects they are interested in
21:49:45 <oneswig> I have been to some, probably not enough...
21:49:46 <anteaya> eavesdrop.openstack.org is the url for the meeting information
21:49:53 <anteaya> some is a good start
21:49:55 <trandles> I try to attend ironic meetings but likewise, probably not often enough.
21:50:10 <anteaya> the meetings will show you what information the ptls pay attention to
21:50:17 <anteaya> trandles: thank you for attending
21:50:20 <oneswig> Did see this though - soliciting input for Ocata cycle for Ironic: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-ocata-summit
21:50:35 <anteaya> also logs of meetins are available again at eavesdrop.openstack.org
21:50:44 <uxdanielle> http://doodle.com/poll/7tid473za2hpi6e7  << This is the link you can use to sign up for an interview slot if you're interested in participating
21:51:00 <anteaya> if you see a project asking for feedback, give feedback
21:51:00 <trandles> oneswig I hadn't seen that, thank you
21:51:04 <oneswig> uxdanielle: Thanks
21:51:08 <anteaya> that is your best route to being heard
21:51:22 <anteaya> not trying to undermine ux research, we need better ux
21:51:30 <oneswig> Time is getting the better of us, anything more to say on this subject?
21:51:36 <trandles> anteaya I definitely read logs when I can't attend
21:51:39 <anteaya> but don't wait on user stories to convey your needs, go to meetings yourself
21:51:44 <anteaya> trandles: awesome, thank you
21:51:47 <uxdanielle> Ping me with any other questions; thanks for bringing this meeting to my attention!
21:51:58 <oneswig> uxdanielle: you're very welcome
21:52:11 <oneswig> #topic Planning for SC2016
21:52:16 <martial_> thanks anteaya & uxdanielle
21:52:47 <oneswig> Actually I don't have news here.  I know there is an OpenStack BoF application but I didn't hear if it has been accepted.
21:53:04 <trandles> oneswig: that acceptance is first week in Sept. IIRC
21:53:22 <oneswig> trandles: Ah, thanks, I will look out for that
21:53:37 <oneswig> In the meantime, fingers crossed
21:54:09 <martial_> would be nice, likely going to SC2016 too :)
21:54:24 <oneswig> trandles: did you contact Mike Lowe IIRC he was looking for OpenStack presentation subject matter for the IU booth?
21:54:36 <trandles> oneswig: I did not
21:54:53 <oneswig> Ah OK I seem to remember that coming up
21:55:19 <oneswig> martial_: It's possible I may see you there...
21:55:21 <trandles> I'll look for details
21:55:44 <martial_> oneswig: and in Barcelona if all goes well
21:55:56 <oneswig> martial_: of course - excellent
21:57:03 <oneswig> I am generating content for the OpenStack HPC white papers - 2.5 in draft now, awaiting selected reviews before they'll go to the group for further refinement
21:57:50 <oneswig> #topic Any other business
21:58:10 <oneswig> News from the Scientific OpenStack world?
21:58:34 <trandles> Who do I see about creating 30 hour days so I can get more done?
21:58:41 <julian1> Hehe...
21:58:48 <anteaya> i asked in #openstack-ironic about user stories, if anyone had heard of them, I got no reply
21:59:03 <anteaya> heard of any that applied to ironic
21:59:45 <trandles> anteaya I'd be happy to chat about my use case for using ironic to provision HPC clusters
21:59:46 <oneswig> anteaya: ah, sounds like there's a blockage in the process plumbing ...
22:00:39 <oneswig> Shall we arrange for a future meeting to invite some people from Ironic?
22:00:55 <anteaya> trandles: I think spending time in #openstack-ironic is your best way to be heard
22:01:06 <anteaya> and attending the ironic weekly meeting
22:01:13 <oneswig> Alas I think we are out of time but we have plenty to follow up on here
22:01:20 <anteaya> or attend the ironic weekly meeting
22:01:23 <trandles> anteaya sounds good
22:01:27 <anteaya> trandles: thank you
22:01:49 <oneswig> Thanks all, time to wind up
22:01:53 <martial_> thanks all
22:02:11 <oneswig> #endmeeting