15:00:06 <smcginnis> #startmeeting releaseteam
15:00:07 <openstack> Meeting started Fri Sep 21 15:00:06 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:09 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:11 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam'
15:00:26 <annabelleB> o/
15:00:27 <smcginnis> Ping dhellmann, ttx, annabelleB
15:00:31 <smcginnis> Ohai
15:00:31 <evrardjp> o/
15:00:34 <dhellmann> o/
15:00:35 <ttx> o/
15:00:51 <smcginnis> Wow, everyone is punctual today.
15:00:59 <smcginnis> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stein-relmgt-tracking Agenda
15:01:04 <smcginnis> Line 31
15:01:18 <smcginnis> #topic Backlog discussion from the PTG
15:01:33 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/project_group/73 Backlog
15:01:44 <smcginnis> We started going through ^ at the PTG but ran out of time.
15:01:54 <ttx> or steam
15:02:04 <ttx> choo choo
15:02:04 <smcginnis> A little of both.
15:02:37 <smcginnis> Did we leave off on stable deliverables or external releases?
15:02:41 <evrardjp> can we take elements on that storyboard freely?
15:02:42 * fungi was not punctual :(
15:02:53 <smcginnis> fungi: Close enough. ;)
15:03:02 <ttx> smcginnis: we stopped at stable
15:03:12 <smcginnis> evrardjp: If there is anything on there you would like to work on, feel free to grab it.
15:03:22 <ttx> judging by lastupdated date
15:03:39 * smcginnis notes ttx is much more observant today than himself
15:04:08 <ttx> Track externally-released deliverables is still on my lap
15:04:09 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2002624 Track externally-released deliverables
15:04:15 <ttx> I have a plan
15:04:45 <smcginnis> OK, anything you need input on? Or shall we move on?
15:04:49 <ttx> nope alls et
15:05:17 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001936 Reno traceback when no release between 2 tags
15:05:24 <ttx> will comment so that it's updated
15:05:30 <smcginnis> ttx: Thanks
15:05:44 <smcginnis> dhellmann: Is the reno issue something you have any chance to look at?
15:06:02 <dhellmann> I haven't. It looks like I asked a question with no response.
15:06:20 <smcginnis> Ah, see that now.
15:06:25 <dhellmann> I suspect there's an issue using --earliest-version and --version together
15:06:33 <dhellmann> that first option isn't needed if the second is used
15:06:50 <dhellmann> maybe the fix is to make those mutually exclusive
15:07:01 <smcginnis> So keep around as a low priority thing to checkout out some day?
15:07:17 <evrardjp> dhellmann: +1
15:07:32 <evrardjp> smcginnis: agreed too
15:07:40 <dhellmann> yeah
15:07:42 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001935 cache file needs to contain all branches
15:07:50 <smcginnis> Another reno one.
15:08:01 <dhellmann> that's in process and also a low priority
15:08:13 <dhellmann> that has to do with building the cache file for release notes for a package
15:08:27 <smcginnis> Patch up for it too, just with some issues yet.
15:08:32 <smcginnis> So in the works at least.
15:08:57 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001921 enhance version check for xstatic packages
15:09:09 <smcginnis> We had some issues in our validation for these.
15:09:21 <dhellmann> that's done
15:09:27 <dhellmann> I added the details to the story
15:09:41 <smcginnis> OK, I was thinking this was something already addressed.
15:09:57 <smcginnis> Last one...
15:10:01 <dhellmann> you fixed it :-(
15:10:02 <dhellmann> I mean :-)
15:10:08 * elbragstad walks in late
15:10:17 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001881 Create a new-deliverable command
15:10:23 <smcginnis> Seems like another low priority one.
15:10:29 <dhellmann> yeah
15:10:41 <dhellmann> we've been doing OK with creating the stub files by copying existing ones for now
15:10:46 <smcginnis> Since these are fairly infrequent and easy enough to do through the time honored copy/paste method.
15:10:48 <ttx> it's not the last one, here comes page 2
15:10:57 <smcginnis> Doh
15:11:10 <dhellmann> yeah, I see 35 open items on my list
15:11:24 <smcginnis> I need to get used to the SB layout. Was expecting something on the bottom of the list to indicate more.
15:11:24 * ttx clicks to see all 35 in one list
15:11:33 <dhellmann> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001849
15:11:42 <dhellmann> add information about ptls and liaisions to the releases repo
15:11:43 <fungi> smcginnis: sounds like a good storyboard feature request
15:12:10 <smcginnis> fungi: Not going to say I can implement it? :)
15:12:26 <armstrong> Have we fully switched to storyboard?
15:12:27 <evrardjp> I don't understand this one
15:12:31 <ttx> dhellmann: I think that should be rolled together with the "manifest" idea
15:12:32 <evrardjp> what's the goal?
15:12:42 <smcginnis> armstrong: For the releases repo we have. Not all projects though.
15:12:51 <dhellmann> ttx: yeah, I think the stuff we talked about at the ptg replaces this
15:12:54 <ttx> evrardjp: basically have a log of who was handling that release ?
15:12:56 <smcginnis> evrardjp: Yeah, I added this, but now I can't recall the full context.
15:12:58 <fungi> smcginnis: you can certainly add a story to openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient requesting it though
15:13:15 <fungi> so we don't forget
15:13:22 <dhellmann> I'm going to close this story as obsolete
15:13:28 <ttx> yep
15:13:36 <dhellmann> do we have another one for the mainfest thing?
15:13:36 <ttx> although we did not create a story to track the master plan yet
15:13:43 <smcginnis> Don't we need something similar for the changes we were dicussing in Denver?
15:13:45 <dhellmann> so maybe we should rewrite this one
15:13:52 <smcginnis> ++
15:14:11 <evrardjp> yeah because without the "master" plan, this is very obfuscated :p
15:14:12 <ttx> the creation date would be misleading
15:14:50 <dhellmann> so I'll close this one and someone will open another?
15:15:02 <ttx> yes, I'll create the new one
15:15:04 <smcginnis> Same basic concept though, just evolved over time. Not sure if the creation date would be an issue.
15:15:09 <smcginnis> Either way works.
15:15:14 <ttx> while you go down the list
15:15:30 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001848 New project checklist
15:15:54 <smcginnis> I'll keep this one. There have been enough things pop up here and there for things that would be good to capture in something like this.
15:15:57 <dhellmann> I think we still need this
15:16:21 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001846 Add verify library to process
15:16:33 <dhellmann> after the ptg this one also feels obsolete
15:16:38 <smcginnis> Not sure if this one is really an issue anymore
15:16:50 <dhellmann> this one does mention automatically tagging so we could reuse it
15:17:17 <smcginnis> Sure, let's hold on to this a bit yet.
15:17:41 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001845 Document policy on adding new deliverables to existing series
15:18:10 <smcginnis> IIRC, the idea here was they can add to independent but not the series since these weren't actually a part of it at the time?
15:18:45 <dhellmann> right
15:18:46 <evrardjp> we kinda had that in OSA when a repo was renamed
15:19:19 <smcginnis> Renames I think are fine. It's when something unofficial becomes official and they want to add pre-official releases I think.
15:19:20 <evrardjp> so it's better be precise in the scope we are talking about here?
15:19:37 <smcginnis> I'll add some notes so we remember. We should keep this one.
15:20:44 <ttx> https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2003834
15:20:51 <ttx> Stein release process evolution
15:21:12 <ttx> Last task is actually one of the first to do... I miss task ordering!
15:21:43 <smcginnis> Thanks
15:22:04 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001806 Support StoryBoard in release tooling
15:22:09 <fungi> still on my to do list for sure, but if someone else is eager to do it instead i'm happy to hand it over
15:22:15 <smcginnis> This one is actually to do with updating statuses.
15:22:22 <ttx> that one has been on my plate forever
15:22:40 <ttx> Still planning to do it if I ever manage to free up enough time
15:22:48 <smcginnis> And doesn't seem like something we can break down into smaller steps to farm out.
15:22:58 <smcginnis> Important to get to eventually.
15:23:00 <ttx> it's a bit hard, due to the learning curve
15:23:10 <ttx> so I would definitely keep it
15:23:20 <ttx> will comment
15:23:32 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001802 Add commmand to setup for travis environment
15:23:36 <fungi> i _think_ it's just a matter of importing python-storyboardclient and then mimicking what we do for lp
15:23:39 <smcginnis> Another reno enhancement.
15:23:48 <fungi> (wrt 2001806)
15:23:56 <dhellmann> yeah, very low priority
15:23:57 <ttx> oh, it;s assigned to you now! I know why I did not do it now
15:24:07 <smcginnis> Sure, that's why. ;)
15:24:09 <dhellmann> that would be used by folks outside of the openstack community
15:24:25 * dhellmann makes a note of ttx's task management approach
15:24:37 <smcginnis> Useful for travis users for sure.
15:24:39 <fungi> heh
15:24:51 <smcginnis> s/useful/required/
15:25:04 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001738 Support multiple --series arguments in list-deliverables
15:25:15 <smcginnis> Seems like a low priority but useful thing too.
15:25:36 <smcginnis> No reason the command can't be run multiple times though.
15:25:44 <smcginnis> Any thoughts on this one?
15:26:23 <dhellmann> seems like a good opportunity for someone to learn that code
15:26:26 <ttx> let's keep it in case people look for easy ways in
15:26:28 <dhellmann> and a very low priority
15:26:35 <smcginnis> *cough* evrardjp *cough*
15:26:38 <ttx> tagging low-hanging-fruit maybe ?
15:27:00 <smcginnis> Tagged
15:27:25 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001692 Generate update emails for unreleased changes
15:27:42 <evrardjp> smcginnis: :)
15:28:02 <smcginnis> This one looks useful too.
15:28:23 <smcginnis> Nothing critical by any means, but I think it would help raise awareness for teams of stable stuff sitting out there.
15:28:27 <dhellmann> maybe we can get elod to help out there
15:28:46 <smcginnis> Yeah, another good task to dig into things.
15:29:03 <smcginnis> Not really a low-hanging-fruit though with some of the complexity of some of the steps involved.
15:29:11 <smcginnis> But not too difficult either.
15:29:23 <smcginnis> dhellmann: Leave it assigned to you for now?
15:29:39 <dhellmann> I removed my name, but can pick it up if we need it done
15:29:58 <dhellmann> the scripting is 90% done, so it's just the job and email sending that might be a challenge
15:30:18 <smcginnis> OK, works for me.
15:30:32 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001690 Support release announcement emails to other mailing lists
15:30:36 <smcginnis> Still needed?
15:31:03 <smcginnis> Looks like maybe needs some input from fungi too.
15:31:14 <fungi> checking
15:31:16 <ttx> low prio but yes I would say
15:31:22 <dhellmann> that was a thing I wanted for stevedore and some other libs
15:31:28 <dhellmann> I think it's useful, but low priority
15:31:41 <evrardjp> secrets are well documented on zuul ci docs nowadays
15:31:45 <smcginnis> Yeah, for reno, cliff, stevedore, etc, could be really useful.
15:32:08 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001689 Ability to list a version on releases.o.o wihtout linking to artifact
15:32:23 <evrardjp> smcginnis: what's the limit? Which libs will be announced or not?
15:32:47 <fungi> why were we thinking we needed to authenticate smtp from those?
15:32:48 <ttx> I think we need that one
15:32:56 <smcginnis> evrardjp: I think just as needed when we find a deliverable that would be useful to announce to other communities.
15:33:03 <fungi> we send to the release-announce list from job nodes currently without issue
15:33:08 <dhellmann> fungi : because we would be sending email to lists not on lists.openstack.org?
15:33:16 <dhellmann> maybe that's not really an issue then?
15:33:17 <fungi> ahh, got it
15:33:20 <smcginnis> fungi: Any issues sending to a ML on groups.io or something like that?
15:33:54 <fungi> yeah, i have a feeling this is more a story about setting up an authenticated smarthost for jobs to send e-mail through
15:34:40 <fungi> maybe we should only build that when we discover we need it
15:34:44 <fungi> i'll add a comment now
15:34:50 <smcginnis> fungi: Thanks
15:35:02 <smcginnis> For listing on releases.o.o, looks like that was closed at one point.
15:35:08 <smcginnis> Do we still want to get that?
15:35:18 <smcginnis> I don't think it's really been an issue.
15:35:22 <fungi> it does say "should the need arise" on building a smarthost for these
15:36:16 <smcginnis> dhellmann: That's assigned to you right now. Thoughts?
15:37:12 <dhellmann> I think we've been linking to things that don't exist?
15:37:25 <dhellmann> or do we go through and remove those links?
15:37:35 <dhellmann> I guess we cleaned up some at the end of rocky, didn't we?
15:38:05 <smcginnis> Not sure honestly.
15:38:20 <dhellmann> I'm OK with closing this and reopening it or making another one if we remember why we care about this
15:38:35 <smcginnis> Looks like that happened once before. :)
15:38:37 <dhellmann> heh
15:38:43 <dhellmann> yeah, I had to turn comments on to see that
15:39:01 <smcginnis> Maybe that's a sign that it's not really a big deal if we keep forgetting why we wanted it.
15:39:31 <dhellmann> I guess the question is whether we care that we link to missing artifacts
15:39:43 <smcginnis> Let's mark it invalid again. If it comes up again we can capture the full reasoning behind it.
15:39:45 <dhellmann> and it seems like it hasn't been a huge issue
15:40:17 <dhellmann> done
15:40:32 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001673 Announce job fails if diff-start does not exist
15:41:09 <dhellmann> we probably ought to fix this one
15:41:11 <smcginnis> Looks like a useful error handling thing to fix.
15:41:21 <smcginnis> Updated the tag to stein.
15:41:37 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/1748164 Reno doesn't scale
15:41:40 <smcginnis> ?
15:41:46 <smcginnis> Ah, issues seen in nova.
15:41:56 <dhellmann> they should just make fewer code changes ;-)
15:42:01 <smcginnis> Hah
15:42:16 <dhellmann> there are ways to configure the release notes build to not see the problem, and I think we did some of that
15:42:25 <dhellmann> we could always work to make the code faster, of course
15:42:39 <smcginnis> Looks like you added a useful workaround in the comments.
15:42:48 <dhellmann> yeah, I think the task here is to document that better
15:43:02 <smcginnis> No response, but come to think of it, does StoryBoard email notifications on comments?
15:43:09 <dhellmann> it does
15:43:15 <fungi> if you're subscribed
15:43:17 * dhellmann has many many comment emails from storyboard
15:43:18 <smcginnis> I don't think I've ever received one, so no idea if anythign I've added has had questions or updates.
15:43:26 <dhellmann> ah, I think you have to tell it you want to receive email
15:43:31 <fungi> and if you don't disable story comments in your preferences
15:43:33 <smcginnis> Wouldn't I be subscribed to stories I've added by default?
15:43:44 <fungi> yeah, check your user prefs in the webclient
15:43:54 <dhellmann> you have to "enable notification emails" globally too
15:43:59 <dhellmann> https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/profile/preferences
15:44:04 <smcginnis> OK, I'll check that after the meeting.
15:44:14 <fungi> ahh, right, we don't enable it by default
15:44:24 <smcginnis> Hmm, seems like a questionable default.
15:44:36 <smcginnis> Anyway, keep the reno scaling issue I guess.
15:44:38 <fungi> we might consider adding it as a configurable default and changing it for new accounts or something
15:44:59 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/1748162 Tags at teh base of a stable branch get picked up twice
15:45:30 <smcginnis> Looks like an issue when stable hasn't been tagged yet?
15:46:07 <dhellmann> the tag at the base of a branch is on 2 branches
15:46:18 <dhellmann> I think this is not a bug
15:46:45 <smcginnis> Close it?
15:47:37 <dhellmann> yeah, I just did
15:47:39 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/1748159 Empty configuration files cause exception
15:47:51 <smcginnis> Looks like an opportunity to make reno a little more robust.
15:47:56 <dhellmann> yeah, that's a real bug
15:48:36 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/1748158 earliest_version doesn't work with version from stable branch
15:49:03 <smcginnis> dhellmann: Looks like you've provided some feedback there. Not a bug?
15:49:26 <dhellmann> yeah
15:49:48 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/1734950 Support rst format not wrapped in yaml
15:49:52 <smcginnis> For reno
15:50:04 <smcginnis> Looks like a good low priority enhancement.
15:50:19 <dhellmann> yeah
15:50:33 <dhellmann> although now that I understand why someone asked for this I think it's probably a very very low priority
15:50:41 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/1728128 issue with repos that have checked in empty directories
15:50:50 <smcginnis> I didn't realize git would allow this either.
15:51:14 <smcginnis> Another low prio robustness opportunity
15:51:18 <dhellmann> yeah, I think that's a relatively new thing
15:51:26 <dhellmann> ++
15:51:33 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/1712069 reno does not support git submodule
15:51:38 <smcginnis> Good :D
15:51:40 <fungi> wow, empty dirs in a git repo?!?
15:51:42 <ttx> I bet all the others are the reno wishlist backlog
15:51:50 <dhellmann> probably
15:51:57 <smcginnis> Looking like it.
15:52:00 <ttx> shoudl we switch to putting things on a board ?
15:52:15 <ttx> I want to have an idea of must-have/should-have/good-to-have
15:52:32 <ttx> and see if we have assignees for the first two
15:52:35 <smcginnis> Yeah, we're running out of time again, so let's switch to that.
15:52:52 <smcginnis> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/board/64 Task board
15:53:22 <smcginnis> Isn't there a way that SB can automatically pull these into a board?
15:54:29 * ttx cleans up completed items
15:54:44 <dhellmann> we could set up a board with query-based worklists but we left this one manual because you can't really mix automatic and manual
15:55:14 <dhellmann> the board doesn't let you add items to a worklist if they are already in another worklist, so as soon as you have a list that shows the backlog automatically you have to set up the other lists using automated criteria, too
15:55:18 <ttx> also do we really want a "done" list ? I know it provides sensory satisfaction but...
15:55:24 <ttx> maybe I'll just clean it up
15:55:27 <smcginnis> Can't we have To Do automatic for any openstack/release tasks, then manually move them to In Progress?
15:55:52 <smcginnis> ttx: Yeah, I've always questioned Done items unless there's a follow-up reporting kind of need.
15:56:07 <ttx> smcginnis: the idea was to select a subset of tasks for the Stein plan
15:56:19 <smcginnis> Do All The Things
15:56:27 * ttx empties the list but keeps it
15:56:50 <dhellmann> smcginnis : no, that's what I was trying to explain. If we set up a todo list as automatic, the board will not let you move items from that list to the other lists
15:57:07 <smcginnis> That would be a good enhancement.
15:57:21 <smcginnis> Well, we're almost out of time. Should we defer this and talk about the last topic quick?
15:57:22 <dhellmann> it's a validation rule that tries to prevent you from adding something to todo and done manually, but it doesn't ignore the automatic lists
15:58:00 <ttx> I'm adding what I have on my bucket
15:58:13 <smcginnis> #topic Release changes
15:58:20 <smcginnis> Since we only have a couple minutes...
15:58:29 <fungi> dhellmann: one option would be to make story-based lanes which use specific tags in their queries and then control which lane(s) they appear in by changing the tags on them
15:58:31 <smcginnis> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stein-relmgt-auto-release-change Proposed changes drafts
15:58:50 <smcginnis> fungi: That's kind of what I was thinking. We have things tagged Stein.
15:58:54 <dhellmann> fungi : yeah, it just seemed easier to manually add things to the todo list, then drag them into the other columns
15:58:55 <smcginnis> Anyway
15:59:05 <dhellmann> that way we have a backlog and a list of things we said we'd do this cycle
15:59:11 <smcginnis> Please take a pass through the email drafts.
15:59:17 <smcginnis> Should I send this early next week?
15:59:36 <smcginnis> Though... I'm traveling Mon-Thur.
15:59:44 <smcginnis> But I should have time to send it out.
15:59:57 <dhellmann> one of us could send it if you would rather
16:00:04 <dhellmann> but yeah, I think we should start talking about this asap
16:00:11 <smcginnis> I agree.
16:00:17 <ttx> At least email 1
16:00:27 <smcginnis> I can send it, just want to make sure we are responsive if folks raise questions and concerns.
16:00:36 <dhellmann> I'll be around next week
16:00:40 <ttx> and Email 3 probably
16:00:43 <smcginnis> Yeah, just the first email to start.
16:01:02 <dhellmann> why wait for #2?
16:01:18 <ttx> dhellmann: avoid input overload ?
16:01:23 <smcginnis> Do we want to get feedback on #1 first before going too deep?
16:01:24 <dhellmann> ok, that makes sense
16:01:28 <dhellmann> maybe #2 the week after
16:01:35 <dhellmann> sure
16:01:40 <smcginnis> Over time.
16:01:54 <ttx> cheers
16:01:58 <smcginnis> If folks could take another look over the weekend and polish, I can send it early next week.
16:02:02 <smcginnis> Thanks everyone!
16:02:10 <fungi> thanks smcginnis!
16:02:14 <smcginnis> #endmeeting