21:00:29 #startmeeting quantum 21:00:29 Meeting started Mon Dec 3 21:00:29 2012 UTC. The chair is danwent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:00:30 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:00:32 hello all! 21:00:33 The meeting name has been set to 'quantum' 21:00:34 #info agenda: http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/Meetings 21:01:05 o/ 21:01:09 garyk, can you confirm that stable/folsom was released on 11/29 as planned? 21:01:25 danwent: yes, it has been released. 21:01:39 #info stable/folsom was dropped on schedule on 11/29 21:04:01 many, many thanks to garyk for his incredible dedication to stable/folsom :) 21:04:01 garyk: congratulations! and also to the entire team! 21:04:01 danwent: :). started working on the next one... 21:04:01 moving forward in grizzly, we will need to decide what we still deam worth backporting to folsom. likely the bar should rise to cover just "high" or "critical" bugs. 21:04:01 as we move further with grizzly and merge more features, backports will get harder. 21:04:01 ok, as promised, I want to use the meetings to do a better job of highlighting work that needs to be done on quantum docs 21:04:01 #topic quantum docs 21:04:01 gongysh wins the award as our doc champioin this week. 21:04:01 how much? 21:04:01 he's beeing doing a lot of really valuable work there 21:04:01 gongysh: very large amounts of .... 21:04:01 gratitude :P 21:04:03 https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bugs?field.tag=quantum 21:04:26 now we really need review cycles to help get these doc changes merged 21:04:46 even if you're not a core dev for openstack-manuals, the docs team looks for core team members to +1 changes on their projects 21:04:53 so a +1 with a comment that you are a quantum core helps a lot 21:05:04 (or just that you're knowledgeable about quantum, even if you're not a core :P) 21:05:06 https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1064643 21:05:07 Launchpad bug 1064643 in openstack-manuals "add example of basic "flat" scenario for quantum" [Critical,In progress] 21:05:21 this is the review for yong's example of using flat networks and single networks use case 21:05:39 err… that's the bug, this is the review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/17184/ 21:05:59 there's also another really important docs review, improving our metadata-related docs: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/16669/ 21:06:09 this has been a major stumbling point for users 21:06:49 one very KEY point, is that if a doc change also applies to folsom (as both fo the above do, we need to make sure the person submits it to the stable/folsom branch after its merged into master) 21:06:55 otherwise, current folsom users will not benefit. 21:07:13 there are also two open doc bugs of high priority that someone could grab: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1078588 21:07:19 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1082990 21:07:24 Launchpad bug 1078588 in openstack-manuals "provide details for tenant routers use case" [High,Confirmed] 21:07:25 Launchpad bug 1082990 in openstack-manuals "quantum docs should point out that security groups must be open to reach vms" [High,Confirmed] 21:07:40 we also have two key reviews on the api docs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bugs?field.tag=netconn-api 21:07:49 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/13759/ 21:07:54 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15719/ 21:08:09 I'm going to spend the majority of my review cycles this week on docs reviews 21:08:37 it would be great if anyone else wanted to do something similar, to help make sure these changes get in soon. 21:09:02 danwent: i'll try and chime in a bit 21:09:24 I think I am already there. 21:09:25 also, as some new features are arriving in G-2, we should try to make sure code changes aren't merged in until there is at least a doc bug filed, with a pointer to the spec. 21:09:30 gongysh: :) 21:09:52 ok, anything else on docs? 21:10:09 danwent: do you think plugin-specific doc should be in main admin guide? 21:10:09 gongysh: thanks again for all your work there! 21:10:18 like how to configure a specific plugin in quantum? 21:10:32 (or documentation about plugin-specific extensions) 21:10:50 salv-orlando: i've gone back and forth on this. My current thinking is that everyone needs to pick a plugin to make quantum useful at all, so it makes sense to have it integrated into the main admin guide. 21:11:18 for the API guide, so far we haven't required API docs for extensions that are only implemented by some extensions... 21:11:26 we've left it up to the extension author. 21:11:36 salv-orlando: I think we could add an apendix section for plugins config 21:11:45 (of course, having API docs is a good way to make sure your extension is usable and adopted by other plugins) 21:12:28 emagana: well, you definitely need plugin specific stuff in install.... 21:12:29 emagana: well, you definitely need plugin specific stuff in install…. 21:12:52 danwent: agreed. Multiple sources for documentation is painful. 21:12:55 currently, there are sub-sections of various sections, including install that cover per-plugin config. 21:13:19 danwent: of course! 21:13:55 emagana: ah, were you talking about API guide? 21:14:13 ok, then nevermind my comment. i was focused on admin guide. 21:14:16 danwent: actually, both! 21:14:23 ok, moving on :) 21:14:31 #topic reviews + review days 21:14:46 so its with some hesitation that I send out this link, but: http://173.203.107.207/~soren/stats/quantum-30days.json 21:15:05 this is a script from soren used to calculate reviews across all projects. 21:15:28 i'm hesitant because I don't want people to soley focus on the review count, since some reviews take a lot of effort, and some are trivia 21:15:31 trivial 21:16:17 but look at the numbers does seem to confirm what i would have guessed, that some cores are doing a lot more reviews than others :) 21:16:39 in some cases, its hard to imagine that everyone is actualy doing a review day, as they should if they are a core dev. 21:17:16 Looks like I'm the worst offender - point taken 21:17:26 so at this point this is just a note that you should look at your number there, and either feel comfortable that you are doing enough, or take it as a sign that you need to be more vigilent about really doing your several hours of reviews per week, ideally as part of a dedicated review day/half-day 21:17:44 on that note… http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/ReviewDays 21:18:06 i had thought we were going to be rolling over people's days, but it looks like the slate was wiped clean (I noticed that today, and had to re-sign up) 21:18:26 salv-orlando: can you comment on whether people's review days are being rolled over by default? 21:18:43 hard to roll over. Some people don't always pick the same days :) 21:18:56 If I had some preferences, I'd enter names automagically 21:19:14 I know garyk favourite day is sunday for instance 21:19:21 Ok… what about something like people can put a * by their entry, in which case it should be rolled-over? 21:19:27 I have: Tuesday and Thursday. 21:19:37 and if they want to pick a one-time day, don't put a * by your name? 21:19:56 I intend to start in again, but I can't commit to a whole day yet. Need to work myself up. 21:20:00 salv-orlando: :) 21:20:02 danwent: that would sound good to me. For instance I always pick a friday. The "*" will also help me script the stuff 21:20:37 mnewby: doesn't have to be a whole day in the literal sense. Just a day when devs knows you're doing reviews and are available for discussion on IRC 21:20:40 #info when signing up for a review day, include a * by your name if you want that entry automatically rolled over to the next week. 21:21:15 danwent: Is that webpage only for core devs? 21:21:23 salv-orlando: yes, agreed. more just a day where you have a few hour to make sure any major new reviews are getting attention 21:21:47 salv-orlando: fair enough. so long as everybody doesn't mind me leaning on them - I've felt pretty lost in the past and ended up doing purely mechanical reviews, and I think that is of limited utility. 21:22:03 mestery: up to salv-orlando . to some degree, we want to make sure there is core dev coverage, since that is what can actually get stuff merged. 21:22:26 danwent: Makes sense. I'll continue reviewing outside the scope of the webpage for now. 21:22:27 but it would also be good to just encourage general review responsiveness, and being a core isn't required for that 21:22:41 danwent: Got it 21:23:02 ok, any other comments on reviews + review days? 21:23:23 #topic grizzly-2 21:23:31 grizzly-2 is scheduled for Jan 10th: https://launchpad.net/quantum/+milestone/grizzly-2 21:23:35 mestery: feel free to sign up 21:23:52 that includes one "off" week during the holiday/new year season 21:24:07 its still early in G-2, so what I want to do in this meeting are 21:24:17 identify blockers for any reviews that have been through many revisions. 21:24:24 identify newer reviews that are missing two core dev reviewers 21:24:30 make sure we have specs for any high-priority items by end of this week for review. 21:24:44 so, with that, let's take a deep breath and dive in :) 21:24:49 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-gate 21:24:50 danwent: I don't see the xs/xcp blueprint in the list. Can it be included? I have a strategy in mind to get it reviewed. 21:25:46 mnewby: its targeted for g-2 (https://launchpad.net/quantum/+milestone/grizzly-2), its just not priority high or above, and those are the items we automatically track in meetings 21:26:05 we can discuss that BP as well though, at the end of the G-2 section 21:26:21 danwent: sounds good 21:26:27 nati_ueno: gate status? 21:26:32 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/16506/ 21:26:38 garyk and i are reviewing that 21:27:03 danwent: It looks start failing again. So I'm trying to fix it now. But glance-api didn't start yet. 21:27:09 danwent: nati_ueno my setup is finally up and running so tomorrow i'll have free cycles for it 21:27:11 danwent: I'll try to fix it ASAP 21:27:41 nati_ueno: ok… ping us when its ready for another review. devstack is kind of a mess lately with all of the project changes :-/ 21:27:44 garyk: Ah really? OK I'll push rebased version, so could you try new one? 21:28:06 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-db-upgrades 21:28:10 markmcclain: 21:28:10 danwent: Thanks 21:28:14 nati_ueno: first thing tomorrow (my time) 21:28:18 https://docs.google.com/a/nicira.com/document/d/1YzKDf9IzfsmlhPvtNLv9d-luap25YlihBTqtcnEjrQo/edit 21:28:30 #info spec for db upgrade migration https://docs.google.com/a/nicira.com/document/d/1YzKDf9IzfsmlhPvtNLv9d-luap25YlihBTqtcnEjrQo/edit 21:28:31 garyk: Thanks 21:28:44 markmcclain: i think you said you expect to post a review soon? 21:28:52 was hoping for today, but should be pushed tomorrow 21:29:05 ok, can we quickly ID two core devs for this? 21:29:10 nati_ueno: glance - check out https://answers.launchpad.net/nova/+question/163369 21:29:19 this is an essential BP, so i'd like to get it reviewed ASAP 21:29:27 garyk: Thanks 21:29:35 I want. 21:29:56 nati_ueno: look at #6 21:30:16 ok, i will step in as second core if no one else wants to 21:30:24 markmcclain: please ping us when its available 21:30:25 garyk: oh, clean up rabbitmq fixes the problem! Thanks 21:30:28 will do 21:30:52 gongysh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/rpc-for-l3-agent 21:31:02 this was one of the items we were targeted to already be merged 21:31:23 danwent: it is looking good. just needs on extra core dev 21:31:27 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15619/ 21:31:42 I'm close to a +2 21:31:50 markmcclain: ok, great. 21:32:05 markmcclain: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/metadata-overlapping-networks 21:32:14 main quantum, nova + devstack reviews are in 21:32:16 danwent: I was the 2nd core, and it's a +2 for me, but I moved it to +1 to let markmcclain review too 21:32:36 markmcclain: are we keeping this BP for one additional quantum commit 21:32:38 ? 21:32:46 or using a separate BP for that? 21:32:49 isolated nets 21:32:56 we can file a separate one if that's easier 21:33:09 yeah, let's do that 21:33:13 so mark this one as implemented 21:33:24 done 21:33:30 markmcclain: thx 21:33:32 nati_ueno: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-security-groups-iptables 21:33:42 we're close on this one too, i believe? 21:33:50 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/16210/ 21:33:53 Yes. But we need to agree the spec 21:34:02 source_ip_prefix for egress 21:34:07 nati_ueno: ah, was there another email to the ML? 21:34:11 i'm a bit behind there 21:34:12 danwent: Yes 21:34:21 nati_ueno: does it have the ability to do anti-spoofing? 21:34:34 gongysh: Yes I added the implementation 21:34:50 #todo danwent amotoki_ arosen respond to ML email about security groups spec 21:35:00 thanks. 21:35:03 nati_ueno: and do we still have at least two active core devs on it? 21:35:24 danwent: Aaron and Gary and Akihiro is working on the patch. Thanks 21:35:29 nati_ueno: great 21:35:30 danwent: it is only my list 21:35:35 ditto 21:35:42 ditto 21:35:44 garyk: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/vif-plugging-improvements 21:36:02 garyk: i saw https://review.openstack.org/#/c/16439/, are there other reviews I should be linking to? 21:36:18 danwent: not yet. tomorrow i'll start on the nova side of things. 21:36:36 garyk: looks like we need two more core devs. since we talked a bit about this, i'll be one. but we need another volunteer 21:36:51 great 21:37:04 any one interested? 21:37:05 I'll look at this. 21:37:10 rkukura: thanks 21:37:16 enikanorov: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/lbaas-restapi-tenant 21:37:26 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15954/ 21:37:39 discussion continues on health monitor 21:37:48 ah, that explains it :) 21:37:51 i think some core dev shoult step in and say his weighty word 21:38:04 salv-orlando may be? 21:38:08 is there a specific thread on the ML? salv-orlando have you been commenting on this? 21:38:17 hehe, my thought as well. poor salv-orlando :P 21:38:28 poor me indeed. 21:38:34 The work is actually very good. 21:38:35 i think he has been commenting on this in review 21:38:52 ah, i think enikanorov was talking specifically about the health monitor issues on the ML 21:39:07 I am not sure about the use of operational status, but at the end of day as long as it is documented is fine. 21:39:11 afaik, it's the blocker right now 21:39:11 can we get some API guru love on that? 21:39:17 I'm also sorting the other stuff with Oleg. 21:39:36 Actually probably most of you are not aware of this discussion because it was on a gerrit patch 21:39:42 and not the main ML. 21:39:52 I think Oleg today moved the discussion to the mailing list. 21:39:54 ah 21:40:06 not that is it so much easier to noticed something on the ML these days :P 21:40:12 but yes, the right move. 21:40:35 Ok, salv-orlando, as API team lead, please do what you can to break the log-jam :) 21:40:39 For some weird reason, I'm starting to find easier to discuss on gerrit. 21:40:52 salv-orlando: more focused on concrete code? 21:40:59 yep 21:41:11 sachin: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/lbaas-plugin-api-crud 21:41:32 i thought i saw him online earlier in the mtg... 21:41:41 i forget his handle though. 21:41:49 https://review.openstack.org/16919 21:42:43 ah, it looks like we need core dev attention on this patch. 21:42:45 I'll reivew since it's lots of db changes 21:43:04 markmcclain: awesome, thanks. its a beast :P 21:43:16 i'm planning on tackling it mid-week as well. 21:43:20 yeah I can be the 2nd core if no other core is on it. 21:43:28 salv-orlando: by all means 21:43:46 salv-orlando: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-service-type 21:43:56 danwent: but if you want ti review that it would be a pleasure for me to step down 21:44:16 it was pointed out that the spec link points to a fairly generic page on service insertion 21:44:28 salv-orlando: if i don't get to it by end of day wed, you can take a crack at it 21:44:49 salv-orlando: yes, i think the proposed work is pretty simple, and we should have a spec that reflects that 21:45:25 which is totally correct, as this work is pretty much focused on API extension and DB support 21:45:37 as I said, i'd like to see specs for anything high or above by end of week, so there is time for discussion, impl, and review 21:45:42 I have unfortunately lost last week due to other commitments, and I'm now back to work on this 21:45:57 salv-orlando: ok, do you think having a spec by end of week is reasonable? 21:46:30 ok, got to keep moving.... 21:46:35 salv-orlando: let me know how i can help 21:46:41 last one on the list (then mnewby) 21:46:47 gongysh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-multihost 21:46:59 I assume this is still tied up in the raging ML thread? 21:47:00 dawent: I am writing the spec as we talk 21:47:13 salv-orlando: no wonder you're taking so long to respond :P 21:47:25 danwent: I think most of us don't like it 21:47:38 gongysh: don't like what specifically? 21:47:50 danwent: multi-host 21:47:51 multi-host model? 21:47:57 yes 21:47:57 yeah, i don't like it either to be frank 21:48:10 do we still need it? 21:48:32 We need the use case for nova parity 21:48:34 how about canceling it? 21:48:39 Not sure we need all the rest around it 21:48:58 danwent: what is the alternative for HA? active/standby model? 21:48:59 salv-orlando: well, we at least need something that people feel provides similar HA + perf properties 21:49:16 (see host management, and 'scheduling') 21:49:39 danwent: isn't HA an implemention issue? All services have this same problem, and solutions are available outside of the openstack ecosystem. 21:49:44 I've not following the discussion very closely but gongysh's point is that scheduling and host management are necessary for doing the nova use case 21:50:12 at least this is what I gathered 21:50:22 This is not just an HA solution, i think this is also a Performance issue 21:50:31 mnewby: multi-host, for all its failures, has a very compelling HA model that isn't currently possible with Quantum 21:50:37 Having Network Node driving all DHCP request is not a good design 21:50:59 i.e., L3 + DHCP services are only lost if the hypervisor running the associated VMs are lost (in which case you probably don't care too much) 21:51:02 Please, let me know which cloud providers choose multi-host as their implementation stragegy. 21:51:16 I'll be sure to short their stock. :p 21:51:28 * mnewby runs and hides 21:51:33 mnewby: unfortunately, i've been told by many openstack implemetors that they do 21:51:44 mnewby: so even though my person feelings match yours 21:51:47 mnewby: HP cloud does, for both performance and HA 21:52:15 mnewby: i think the quantum community needs to be very clear about how you achieve something similar, or why we think it does not deserve to be implemented. 21:52:22 Yes. HP guys told me at design summit. 21:52:28 that's just sad 21:52:32 yes, i'm one of them :) 21:52:33 its much more than HP though 21:52:34 but i digress 21:53:19 ok, we're going to run out of time. I will follow-up on ML about this. 21:53:32 what's bad with multihost ? 21:53:35 #todo danwent lead team discussion on multi-host 21:53:50 zykes-: not enough time to explain in this meeting…. 21:53:55 ok, mnewby 21:53:57 ok. 21:54:16 mnewby: you wanted to talk about xenserver/ovs stuff? 21:54:25 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/xenapi-ovs 21:54:35 danwent: The reviews haven't seen any love, and that's understandable. 21:54:42 danwent: Hard to replicate a test environment. 21:54:54 true 21:55:03 danwent: So I have an idea… First, I'm going to get the tempest tests done (truly). 21:55:10 danwent: Then I'll need 2 reviewers. 21:55:28 danwent: One will verify that kvm behaviour is unmodified by the xs/xcp supporting changes. 21:55:30 mnewby: if you get the tempest stuff done, i'll do whatever you need as a reviewer in quantum :) 21:55:44 mnewby: i'll volunteer - any chance of giving me remote access to be able to test? 21:55:48 danwent: The other I will assist in getting an xs/xcp devstack environment for them to run the tests against. 21:56:13 mnewby: ok, i can definitely help 21:56:15 garyk: No remote access, I'm afraid, but it will be possible to bring up xcp under a vm. 21:56:23 tell me how to set up an Xen env, I will chime in. 21:56:31 mnewby: ok. i'll just bug you for the details 21:56:39 ok, sorry, got to keep moving. but looks like danwent, garyk, and gongysh are available to help 21:56:50 good stuff 21:56:54 #topic open work items 21:57:19 often i'm asked for open blueprints or tasks, so I just wanted to highlight a few here before we wrap up 21:57:19 so… what about multi-host? 21:57:25 :) sorry that was troll me 21:57:29 salv-orlando: i'm going to follow-up on ML 21:57:32 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-v2-euca-compat 21:57:40 this is a very useful task that it would be useful for someone to own. 21:58:01 though it may depend on work from arosen or someone else on a security group proxy. arosen, is there a BP tracking that? 21:58:19 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/db-profiling-at-scale 21:58:24 danwent: I know, I just could not resist trolling a bit. Sorry about that. 21:58:37 danwent: we first want to define what euca compatibility means 21:58:45 this is another very valuable item. markmcclain is going to be working on this later, but i'm sure other people could jump in and work on it as well. 21:59:27 danwent: as it is related to API too, it probably makes sense mark and I work together on this. emagana also had done some work, so his contribution would be valuable too 21:59:31 salv-orlando: basically, run nova + quantum, and audit what portions of euca-networking commands may have issues, and fix them. 21:59:35 Do we have a BP for API v2.1? 21:59:58 danwent: ok - so it's not about having a EC2 endpoint on Quantum? 22:00:08 there is also mnewby's tempest review (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/12485/), which would use additional review + testing. 22:00:09 I am wondering the pagination BP which is postponed to G2. 22:00:17 and then people can expand on it to add new tests. 22:00:30 I think horizon is wanting it. 22:00:37 danwent: will be submitting a revised version this week… reviews can wait until it gets updated. 22:00:43 gongysh: Is there any API change that cannot be supported by 2.0 clients? 22:01:08 mnewby: ok, maybe make a note of that on the reivew so others don't waste cycles (if the changes are going to be substantial) 22:01:12 #topic open discussion 22:01:13 ok, will do 22:01:15 ok, one minute over time 22:01:18 pagination was backward compatible too (has to be - otherwise it won't be worth bumping up API version for it) 22:01:25 garyk is probably falling asleep :P 22:01:31 any open discussion? 22:01:46 danwent: yup. i'm toast. good night all 22:01:47 I faced the problem with transaction and eventlet 22:01:50 please remember to sign up for review days 22:02:00 http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/ReviewDays 22:02:03 and don't forget the '*' 22:02:05 and then to actually review :) 22:02:10 This looks fatal problem, so I'm happy if I can get response for my mail 22:02:16 yes. it is back compatible. 22:02:23 anybody up for helping me get devstack running after the meeting? I'm seeing amqp problems and don't know where to start :( 22:02:29 But we are forgetting this BP. 22:02:41 mnewby: i think several other people mentioned this as well 22:02:43 what is the error? 22:02:46 mnewby: uninstall rabbitmq and delete /var/lib/rabbitmq 22:02:55 Ok, let's wrap up the official meeting, and anyone who wants can hang around to chat. 22:02:57 nati_ueno: will do, thank you. 22:03:00 #endmeeting