14:01:26 <tobberydberg> #startmeeting publiccloud-wg
14:01:27 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Aug 30 14:01:26 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tobberydberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:28 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01:31 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'publiccloud_wg'
14:01:41 <tobberydberg> Hola everyone!
14:01:58 <mrhillsman> o/
14:02:08 <aprice> hello!
14:02:34 <tobberydberg> Agenda at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg
14:02:45 <tobberydberg> If you haven't, please put your name there!
14:03:23 <tobberydberg> Let's get going directly
14:03:57 <tobberydberg> #topic 1. Plan for PTG
14:04:25 <tobberydberg> Soon time for another PTG ... whoop whoop! Will be awesome!
14:04:59 <zhipeng> i'm still waiting for my visa ....
14:05:11 <zhipeng> administrative processing almost a month
14:05:13 <tobberydberg> I created an etherpad for the PTG planning
14:05:16 <tobberydberg> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg-stein-ptg
14:05:44 <tobberydberg> Also added a few topics in some kind of structured way...
14:06:09 <tobberydberg> what? Any holdup or just waiting?
14:07:12 <mrhillsman> i'll be there and added a couple of items
14:07:21 <tobberydberg> +1
14:08:24 <zhipeng> just waiting ...
14:08:34 <mrhillsman> got final approval yesterday so will get plane ticket today
14:08:42 <mrhillsman> everything else is situated
14:08:43 <tobberydberg> Please add your name as well, and please add some more notes around your topics as well mrhillsman
14:08:55 <mrhillsman> ++
14:08:58 <tobberydberg> sounds good mrhillsman
14:09:38 <tobberydberg> zhipeng: then I guess we just need to wait... Is it in US side of things, or locally in china?
14:09:53 <zhipeng> i'm not sure how it works actually
14:10:09 <tobberydberg> ok ok
14:10:12 <zhipeng> but should be able to get it really close to the conf starting date
14:10:37 <tobberydberg> you have a week =)
14:10:54 <mrhillsman> i think is is pretty common unfortunately
14:11:06 <mrhillsman> in particular for frolks from China
14:11:15 <zhipeng> particularly for Huawei
14:11:29 <tobberydberg> hmmm...thats to bad
14:11:31 <zhipeng> lol
14:11:33 <mrhillsman> :)
14:11:34 <zhipeng> anyways
14:11:40 <zhipeng> while we have melvin here
14:11:45 <mrhillsman> you said it hehe
14:11:52 <zhipeng> should we discuss the SDK Cert ideas here ?
14:12:01 <zhipeng> i mean first
14:12:08 <tobberydberg> So, suggest topics everyone
14:12:45 <tobberydberg> you mean now zhipeng?
14:13:06 <zhipeng> yep
14:13:29 <zhipeng> just a suggestion
14:13:49 <tobberydberg> Lets slide through the agenda fisrt, then we can do that.. ok?
14:14:26 <mrhillsman> ++
14:14:34 <pilgrimstack> o/
14:14:40 <tobberydberg> welcome pilgrimstack
14:14:45 <tobberydberg> #topic 2. Specs
14:15:02 <zhipeng> ++
14:15:10 <tobberydberg> We have a few "specs" that we need to move forward on
14:15:55 <tobberydberg> Passport v2 ... we really should come to a decision there ... meaning staring to reply to Tomas comment and get more people to vote
14:16:12 <tobberydberg> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/583529/
14:17:14 <tobberydberg> Also, we have your cloud ledger spec zhipeng that we would like to have feedback on
14:17:26 <zhipeng> :P
14:18:06 <tobberydberg> So, I guess that PTG would be a good slot for it, or try to make a push here and get feedback until next weeks meeting?
14:18:57 <zhipeng> PTG would be an ideal place to get it done
14:19:04 <mrhillsman> ++
14:19:14 <tobberydberg> Lets try to go for that then!
14:19:44 <tobberydberg> #topic 3. Missing features
14:20:50 <tobberydberg> Last time we taled about a work session for missing fewtes list - making sure it is up to date before the PTG, also get people to att new stuff to it (if they have any) to get them vetted during the PTG session
14:21:39 <tobberydberg> Something that we should schedule for the meeting next Wednesday?
14:22:20 <tobberydberg> most of all I just want to ask everyone to have a look, update, add ... so please spread that word
14:22:49 <mrhillsman> sounds good
14:23:00 <tobberydberg> pilgrimstack: Will you have people from OVH at the PTG in Denver?
14:23:24 <tobberydberg> Lets schedule that for next week then
14:23:36 <tobberydberg> #topic 4. Other topics
14:24:09 <pilgrimstack> tobberydberg: few people, mainly from storage team
14:24:26 <tobberydberg> We have an incoming PP application that needs review
14:25:00 <tobberydberg> ok, thanks pilgrimstack. Please let them know about our sessions there if that is of interest for them
14:25:10 <tobberydberg> #link  https://www.syseleven.de/syseleven-stack-testen/
14:25:36 <tobberydberg> Do you have any more information about them or their application aprice that is worth mentioning?
14:26:11 <aprice> I don't think so - Danny has been running that. I know he was going to try joining, but was having issues
14:27:27 <aprice> yeah, he said he doesnt have any other information. just needs to be reviewed
14:27:32 <tobberydberg> Ok. I have a dialog with Danny regarding them as well, and I'm planning to try them out. I would say that I think that PP should be clearer presented - maybe at the top
14:27:49 <tobberydberg> You don't get the feeling that it is PP at first glance
14:30:13 <tobberydberg> I have signed up but they don't hand out immediate access, and I haven't received any information about how to proceed
14:31:18 <tobberydberg> Lets schedule for next meeting to have them evaluated and summarize feedback to send to them, ok? Is that ok for you aprice?
14:31:19 <zhipeng> aprice what about the suggestion about adding promotions to the pp webpage banner ?
14:34:28 <aprice> tobberydberg: yep that works!
14:34:54 <aprice> zhipeng: are you talking about cloud-specific promotions to o.o/passport that we discussed via email?
14:35:06 <zhipeng> yep :)
14:35:14 <zhipeng> any further thoughts on that ?
14:37:04 <aprice> we discussed internally when it first came up, but I think that the concern is that it's not easy to change that banner frequently and it would be hard to decide the order of the clouds and there wouldnt be a way to show them in only the regions they are available
14:37:41 <pilgrimstack> for information, last time I explained we disabled the PP at OVH
14:38:01 <pilgrimstack> in fact we re-enabled it after adding some filters
14:38:22 <pilgrimstack> it's not perfect but it works for now
14:38:30 <aprice> zhipeng: we can discuss more at the ptg
14:38:52 <zhipeng> okey no problem
14:39:15 <tobberydberg> Good to hear that pilgrimstack =)
14:39:24 <tobberydberg> Welcome back! =)
14:39:55 <tobberydberg> So, we are at "other topics" ... feel free to get back to your suggested topic zhipeng
14:40:17 <zhipeng> mrhillsman i'm all hyped up :P
14:40:22 <mrhillsman> re setting stage for sdk
14:40:28 <zhipeng> the floor is yours senator
14:40:43 <mrhillsman> i'll try to be clear
14:40:50 <mrhillsman> #link http://www.lucidchart.com/invitations/accept/2d394b00-937a-4fc5-a04c-a23f50e2c38c
14:40:54 <mrhillsman> hopefully that helps
14:41:28 <mrhillsman> basically we determine the delta between existing openstack powered compute API calls and the acceptance tests of an SDK
14:42:02 <mrhillsman> if the SDK implements then it should be "certified"
14:42:47 <mrhillsman> however that is just a subset as sdk should cover more
14:43:14 <mrhillsman> so ideally one could have levels
14:43:30 <mrhillsman> we certify this sdk is defcore compliant or whatever
14:43:55 <mrhillsman> another potential direction for certain certification is APIs that are implemented
14:44:09 <mrhillsman> a good example of the concept is what k8s has
14:44:18 <mrhillsman> alpha beta stable APIs
14:45:06 <mrhillsman> so if SDK implements all of what is considered stable as i believe there are some features that are stable then it gets stable badge
14:45:23 <mrhillsman> like vGPU support in Nova
14:45:53 <mrhillsman> i do not think anyone can say it is stable, but maybe it is, if it is not, it is considered unstable/beta/alpha, that can be worked out
14:47:08 <zhipeng> so i think what you suggested is that we could certify on two dimensions
14:47:10 <mrhillsman> maybe there are 10 API calls based on things that need to be implemented and 3 are stable, 5 are somewhat tested (alpha), 2 beta, so we can badge an SDK based on what it supports, and certify based on stable only or in line with Interop certification plan
14:47:17 <mrhillsman> yep, two dimensions
14:47:32 <zhipeng> 1. the amount of the APIs and 2. the maturity of the APIs
14:47:34 <mrhillsman> because it can open the door for higher level application/sdk cert/validation
14:47:56 <mrhillsman> yes
14:47:59 <zhipeng> i like the SDK badge idea
14:48:21 <tobberydberg> me too
14:48:40 <zhipeng> it is more useful than just telling people pass/no pass
14:48:45 <mrhillsman> ++
14:48:55 <tobberydberg> Absolutely
14:49:15 <mrhillsman> exactly, if you try something beta/alpha expect failure, but at least you know clearly
14:49:31 <tobberydberg> DO you have any sdk that you currently are working together with in this?
14:49:45 <mrhillsman> the best option we have is gophercloud or openstacksdk
14:49:55 <mrhillsman> we have good relationships there
14:50:07 <tobberydberg> yup, openstacksdk would be the ideal first demo =)
14:50:15 <mrhillsman> and they are pretty stable in terms of code base and developer participation
14:50:27 <tobberydberg> yup
14:50:36 <mrhillsman> gophercloud has been really picking up steam with the openlab work
14:51:06 <tobberydberg> Sounds good!
14:51:16 <mrhillsman> so the plan is to have this write up and demo for ptg for interops and public cloud sessions
14:51:39 <mrhillsman> even though i will be likely running around worst case we can leave it with both teams to review
14:51:46 <tobberydberg> I would love to be able to take this to operators (public cloud in particular) and get some kind of combined cert of sdk and the PC
14:51:56 <mrhillsman> and if not during session maybe in hallway, lunch, dinner, breakfast discuss more
14:52:21 <tobberydberg> Absolutely
14:52:27 <mrhillsman> that's it from me there
14:52:56 <mrhillsman> oh, only that i think it makes sense after the ptg to put it in the public view
14:52:57 <zhipeng> mrhillsman what about the apisnoop ?
14:53:12 <mrhillsman> yes, so apisnoop is https://github.com/cncf/apisnoop
14:53:31 <mrhillsman> after digging in it basically will help with the visualization of api coverage and badging
14:53:52 <zhipeng> will we be like extensively rely on that ?
14:54:03 <mrhillsman> mitmproxy is the workhorse for the certification and the where we are now in terms of capturing the delta between refstack and an sdk
14:54:28 <mrhillsman> i think we have some options there
14:54:51 <mrhillsman> it seems apisnoop is quite reliant on k8s audit logging in terms of how they currently do the visualizations
14:55:16 <mrhillsman> i am digging into the code to see where we can either work with them or need to break away
14:55:40 <mrhillsman> right now we do not have to rely on apisnoop as mitmproxy was confirmed as the underlying core aspect to it
14:55:55 <mrhillsman> but we can learn from it for visuals or use it if it makes sense
14:56:17 <zhipeng> mitmproxy is another open source project ?
14:56:20 <mrhillsman> need to understand more why it relys on k8s audit logging when mitmproxy is there
14:56:22 <mrhillsman> yep
14:56:30 <zhipeng> got it
14:56:37 <mrhillsman> it has actually been around for some time and is quite robust
14:56:45 <mrhillsman> http://mitmproxy.org
14:57:43 <mrhillsman> ok, that is truly it from me now hehe
14:58:02 <tobberydberg> haha. Thanks mrhillsman! Interesting indeed
14:58:23 <mrhillsman> very welcome
14:58:34 <tobberydberg> 2 more minutes of todays meeting ... somethin else from someone?
15:00:11 <zhipeng> ding
15:00:19 <tobberydberg> pretty much so, yes =)
15:00:35 <mrhillsman> there's a community webinar starting now
15:00:41 <mrhillsman> #link https://zoom.us/j/551803657
15:00:44 <mrhillsman> if interested
15:01:09 <zhipeng> cool
15:01:10 <tobberydberg> That is interesting =)
15:01:13 <tobberydberg> Ok folks! Don't miss next weeks meeting! Looking forward to see some of you in Denver soon
15:01:20 <tobberydberg> Thanks a lot for today!
15:01:48 <mrhillsman> ++
15:01:51 <mrhillsman> thx
15:01:58 <tobberydberg> #endmeeting