21:06:33 <leong_> #startmeeting product_working_group 21:06:33 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Apr 3 21:06:33 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is leong_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:06:33 <shamail> I was joking with Leong… it said “leong is now known as Guest88601” 21:06:34 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:06:36 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' 21:06:42 <rockyg> oh. I see him as leong_ 21:07:01 <leong_> got my auth failed on irc just now... 21:07:13 <leong_> #topic Rollcall 21:07:20 <leong_> ok.. who is here for Product WG irc meeting? 21:07:28 <MeganR> o/ 21:07:29 <rockyg> o/ 21:07:36 <shamail> here 21:07:55 <GeraldK> o/ 21:07:59 <AndyU> o/ 21:08:20 <Arkady_Kanevsky> here 21:08:21 <AndyU> whatever "o/" means.... 21:08:29 <leong_> cool... 21:08:35 <AndyU> is that a raised hand? 21:08:39 <rockyg> it's a person raising their hand 21:08:48 <leong_> AndyU: bingo 21:08:51 <Arkady_Kanevsky> voluneer for action items 21:08:56 <AndyU> <-- newby :) 21:08:56 <leong_> today agenda is here 21:09:01 <leong_> #link agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team 21:09:23 <leong_> feel free to propose/suggest any other agenda item 21:09:51 <leong_> #topic Review of Last Meeting Action Items 21:10:02 <leong_> let's have a look at last week minutes.. 21:10:19 <Arkady_Kanevsky> I sent email to AI I took. But now I am not sure if am on the right track. 21:10:25 <leong_> #link previous irc meeting: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-03-27-21.00.html 21:10:39 <leong_> apology that i missed last week meeting due to travel 21:10:44 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Did you wanted an example of one proposal with pointers to proposal, tracker for it and gap analysis for it? 21:11:06 <rockyg> Arkady_Kanevsky, I had a quick look and it sounded like you were, but maybe we can work together and see what happens? 21:11:10 <GeraldK> I have started updating the Wiki page to Development Proposal. Still few URLs of Wiki pages have to be updated. 21:11:20 <Arkady_Kanevsky> thanks rockyg 21:11:23 <rockyg> +1 21:11:38 <Arkady_Kanevsky> agree GeraldK 21:12:19 <GeraldK> and this one auto-generated page with the user stories that I had mentioned in my email also has to be revised. 21:13:09 <Arkady_Kanevsky> is somebody will updated templates and all user stoeis from "user story" to proposal? 21:13:15 <leong_> Arkady_Kanevsky: do you have a link to your email? 21:14:22 <Arkady_Kanevsky> no. Let me find it. It was called - [User-committee] [Product] proposal categorization 21:14:43 <rockyg> hmm 21:15:09 <leong_> Arkady_Kanevsky: i assume that that is to create a "sample" 21:15:25 <Arkady_Kanevsky> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2017-April/001915.html 21:15:44 <rockyg> Ah, thanks! 21:16:32 <AndyU> Are single project impact Proposals even appropriate for the process? 21:16:33 <Arkady_Kanevsky> But I think I am chasing something which was not in AI 21:16:52 <Arkady_Kanevsky> I can take it offline with Rockyg 21:17:15 <rockyg> Yeah. It might be good, still. It gives us a place to go when we have questions. 21:17:28 <rockyg> Also a hopefully friendly place to check our work 21:17:42 <shamail> Agreed Arkady_Kanevsky and rockyg 21:18:13 <rockyg> Also, we might end up with libraries impact... 21:18:33 <rockyg> It would be great if we could fill a gap by improving a library call or two. 21:18:44 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Now oyu underatdn why I started characterization email thread 21:19:03 <rockyg> ++ :P 21:19:41 <Arkady_Kanevsky> AndyU do you want to discuss it here or on email thread? 21:19:49 <leong_> ok.. should we take that discussion offline on email... 21:20:06 <Arkady_Kanevsky> <leong_> +1 for email 21:20:18 <AndyU> I was just thinking it over. I guess I'll opt for email thread. 21:20:28 <AndyU> I have you're email flagged. 21:20:32 <leong_> #action Arkady_Kanevsky and Rockgy to follow up the "Proposal Categorization" on email 21:21:03 <leong_> GeraldK: do you want to update the progress on Wiki? 21:21:29 <AndyU> I actually have some material to share with you. Maybe we could get on a call and just look it over together +any others who want? 21:22:05 <AndyU> that was @Arkady 21:22:06 <GeraldK> leong_: I have updated most Wiki pages, except renaming of the pages themselves 21:22:38 <leong_> #link PWG Wiki: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam 21:22:40 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Are you thinking of renaming https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG-story-submission-ideas ? 21:23:12 <GeraldK> I have changed user story to Development Proposal, have removed the user story subpages and added the glossary and templates 21:23:16 <leong_> which are the pages that need rename? 21:23:16 <shamail> I can see if there is a way to rename 21:23:20 <shamail> (wiki pages) 21:23:24 <Arkady_Kanevsky> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam/User_Stories - page need major work to convert to proposal. 21:24:10 <GeraldK> e.g. https://github.com/openstack/openstack-user-stories 21:24:10 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Also I think at midcycle we agere to move to storytelling for "future submissions" 21:24:10 <leong_> Shamail: do you still have the original source of the workflow diagram? 21:24:10 <rockyg> You've got to move them and you leave a redirect on the old page 21:24:12 <GeraldK> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam/User_Stories 21:24:20 <shamail> leong_: I might in Google drive… if not I can easily recreate it 21:24:30 <leong_> need to check with infra team for renaming the github repo 21:25:22 <GeraldK> Arkady_Kanevsky: I will update also this page https://github.com/openstack/openstack-user-stories 21:25:22 <Arkady_Kanevsky> any tools that are hardwrired to use github of wiki pages as they are now? 21:25:25 <GeraldK> does anyone have the source of the figure? 21:25:31 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Thanks GrealdK 21:25:37 <Arkady_Kanevsky> GeraldK 21:25:39 <rockyg> There was an email thread on that last week. Shamail, do you remember if it was finalized? 21:25:40 <leong_> geraldk: shamail should have the source of figure 21:25:56 <GeraldK> okay. I will reach out to him. 21:26:18 <leong_> GeraldK: can you also check with infra on renaming the repo? 21:26:43 <AndyU> I have a version of the workflow graphic which is updated with the new names if wanted? 21:26:44 <GeraldK> leong_: yes. I can do. 21:26:47 <shamail> sorry rockyg, what was finalized? 21:26:49 <rockyg> ++ AndyU 21:26:58 <rockyg> the names for the repos 21:27:03 <leong_> #action GeraldK to check with infra on renaming github repo 21:27:05 <GeraldK> AndyU: can you upload to the wiki page? 21:27:08 <rockyg> The discussion with fungi 21:27:32 <AndyU> @Gerald - ok, will do 21:27:40 <shamail> rockyg: no, not finalized. The email last week was about the feature tracker rename if I remember correctly. 21:28:11 <rockyg> It was both, but veered to the feature tracker. 21:28:11 <rockyg> I'll go see if there's a patch for the rename 21:28:25 <leong_> i remember the email mentioned the changes to repo name as well 21:28:47 <leong_> ok.. next item: "remove user story sub-pages" 21:28:59 <leong_> i assuem this is similar to the wiki one? 21:29:03 <shamail> rockyg & leong_: I must’ve overlooked that thread… sorry 21:29:20 <shamail> I think GeraldK did this already 21:30:08 <leong_> awesome 21:30:55 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Leong are you taking Carol Lead on Support the Community transitions: Redesigned work flow and User Committee expansion? 21:31:20 <leong_> i assume the "email list of user story owner" is done? 21:31:21 <Arkady_Kanevsky> We still list Carol on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam 21:32:05 <Arkady_Kanevsky> I took a temprary lead for submission for boston summit of capacity management 21:32:06 <leong_> arkady_kanevsky: i didn't get your question? 21:32:10 <GeraldK> leong_: yes 21:32:26 <Arkady_Kanevsky> but the actual owner is Hiroaki Kobayashi 21:32:41 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Leong - look at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam 21:33:18 <Arkady_Kanevsky> For Ocata priorities we have 3 bulets with owners. 21:33:18 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Carol is owner for the 3rd bullet. 21:33:20 <leong_> Arkady_Kanevsky: i believe that is the one that we are working on today... 21:33:23 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Asking who is taking over for it? 21:33:52 <leong_> yes. primarily myself and shamail, together with PWG members :) 21:34:19 <Arkady_Kanevsky> yes on working on it. Still aaskign who will be listed as owner. Expected that it will be your name Leong. 21:34:20 <leong_> yup arkad 21:34:23 <leong_> arkady 21:34:23 <Arkady_Kanevsky> +1 21:34:59 <leong_> anything else from previous meeting that we need to follow up here? 21:35:43 <AndyU> just one... 21:36:02 <AndyU> I don't see how I can upload a file to the wiki? Maybe i lack permissions? 21:37:06 <Arkady_Kanevsky> AndyU, had you login to wiki/ 21:37:06 <AndyU> yep 21:37:12 <shamail> Everyone should have permission AndyU 21:37:19 <shamail> It is done through the menu at the top 21:37:30 <Arkady_Kanevsky> I see on top left edit button 21:37:33 <leong_> you need to sign in and there is an option at the top for you to embed image, from there you can upload. 21:38:15 <leong_> AndyU: ping me offline if you still having issue on wiki image upload 21:38:15 <shamail> AndyU: Tools > Upload File from the top menu 21:38:21 <leong_> let's move on to next topic 21:38:24 <leong_> #topic Story staffing prioritization/drivers 21:38:28 <AndyU> I'll take it offline with Leong... he loves when I do that ;) 21:38:49 <leong_> i notice last week there was a discussion on this agenda item? 21:38:58 <leong_> anyone want to talk about this? 21:40:12 <rockyg> So, my network connection is really poor and I am currently staring at 14:34:26, Arkady's +1 21:40:15 <leong_> that's seems to be related to "Feature Triage" as well.... 21:40:19 <rockyg> anyone there or was there a split? 21:40:32 <AndyU> I believe we mentioned the need to develop a means to "legitimate" and prioritize proposals as community goals within a given cycle 21:40:32 <rockyg> or??? 21:40:36 <leong_> rockyg: 14:40 on me 21:41:45 <Arkady_Kanevsky> do not recall. I recall discussion we had on it in mid cycle. 21:41:55 <AndyU> Goes back to the mid cycle. Proposals become Goals which in turn feed back into roadmap 21:41:56 <leong_> it was on irc logs :-) 21:42:10 <leong_> anyway, i will leave that offline and get discuss that in next meeting 21:42:33 <rockyg> Cool. I think the ping brought back my IRC session. Thanks, leong_ 21:42:33 <Arkady_Kanevsky> OK 21:42:33 <leong_> #topic Boston planning 21:42:43 <leong_> #topic PWG forum facilitation 21:42:53 <GeraldK> last week we had also discussed about ownership of development proposals and about owner willingness and resources to drive a proposal forward 21:42:58 <leong_> I have setup the doodle for a weekly planning call 21:43:23 <leong_> #link Doodle for Forum Facilitation Planning: http://doodle.com/poll/dff2nvubd4ncqgvw 21:43:29 <Arkady_Kanevsky> do you have enouhg votes to schedule it? 21:43:51 <leong_> anyone interested in joininng the planning effort please add to the doodle link today. 21:44:04 <leong_> i will close the doodle tomorrow morning 21:44:22 <AndyU> I added this to the Forum based on an action item from mid-cycle. let me know if you want any edits. Also who'd like to moderate? http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/102 21:44:32 <leong_> looks like the preference is either Monday or Thursday at 9am pacific time 21:44:56 <leong_> #topic Forum Topics 21:45:12 <leong_> #link http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/102 21:45:32 <leong_> i noticed quite a few of the topics have been submitted/proposed to Forum 21:45:39 <leong_> great work team! 21:45:40 <Arkady_Kanevsky> I submitted 2. One for capacity proposal and one generic to go over all proposals. 21:45:51 <leong_> i assume the committee will review the submission soon 21:46:21 <Arkady_Kanevsky> By the way just because I submiited them does not mean that I will present them. I view them as communitee submissions 21:46:34 <Arkady_Kanevsky> deadline was sunday niught 21:46:40 <leong_> Arkady_Kanevsky: sure :) 21:46:42 <rockyg> AndyU, I'd be happy to moderate if no one else raises their hand? 21:46:43 <AndyU> Arkady - same here +1 21:47:04 <AndyU> Sure. I thought it could be a team effort. 21:47:05 <leong_> and thanks for taking those action items to submit the forum session :) 21:47:36 <GeraldK> I can take the one on capacity mgmt 21:47:42 <leong_> let's wait till the Forum decision and we can decide/volunteer which one to lead 21:48:15 <Arkady_Kanevsky> GeraldK - lets check if Hiroaki Kobayashi will be attending. He is the primary driver for it 21:48:15 <rockyg> ++ 21:48:30 <leong_> anything else we want to discuss for the Forum Topic Submission? (deadline was yesterday) :) 21:49:02 * leong_ o/ shamail :-) 21:49:17 <AndyU> What happens when there are similar submissions? Is there a way to suggest people join forces in a common session? 21:49:47 <leong_> i assume that the committee can decide/propose to merge? 21:49:47 <Arkady_Kanevsky> no. lets review which ones get accepted and asign people to present them - future 21:50:14 <AndyU> yes. Or pick a 'winner' but suggest collaborating to similar 21:50:18 <GeraldK> Arkady_Kanevsky: sure 21:50:38 <Arkady_Kanevsky> AndyU +1 21:51:13 <leong_> #topic PWG Boston BoF and Working Session 21:51:14 <rockyg> If we propose the merge, they'll do it for us 21:51:14 <shamail> connection woes. 21:51:14 <leong_> we have the BoF on Wednesday, May 10, 5:20pm-6:00pm, submitted by Kenny 21:51:31 <leong_> we have the BoF on Wednesday, May 10, 5:20pm-6:00pm, submitted by Kenny 21:51:44 <leong_> and Working Session on Wednesday, May 10, 3:30pm-4:10pm 21:51:59 <rockyg> I think it's freenode. I have problems, too shamail 21:51:59 <leong_> wondering if Kenny needs help to shape the BoF content/slides? 21:52:41 <leong_> i will ping Kenny on the BoF session 21:52:41 <shamail> leong_: +1, let’s find out 21:52:41 <leong_> for the Working Session, we have an etherpad here: 21:52:43 <leong_> #link PWG Boston Working Session: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG_Session_May2017_BOS 21:53:00 <leong_> we need to start planning for the Working Session agenda 21:53:29 <leong_> i would suggest everyone to start adding agenda to the above etherpad 21:53:53 <leong_> but we only have 40 minutes for the Working Session 21:54:02 <rockyg> Actually, looking at traffic map, the internet is slammed in the US and part of Europe 21:54:03 <Arkady_Kanevsky> OK 21:54:14 <rockyg> __ leong_ 21:54:20 <rockyg> ++ leong_ 21:55:33 <leong_> #action All to suggest/add agenda to Boston Working Session https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG_Session_May2017_BOS 21:55:34 <shamail> rockyg: interesting 21:55:53 <leong_> #action leong to ping Kenny on BoF planning 21:56:14 <GeraldK> rockyg: wow, what's going on there https://www.akamai.com/de/de/solutions/intelligent-platform/visualizing-akamai/real-time-web-monitor.jsp 21:56:32 <Arkady_Kanevsky> do we know the room for oPWG session of BOF? 21:56:33 <leong_> interesting.. but team: focus :-) 21:56:42 <Arkady_Kanevsky> or BOF 21:56:46 <leong_> i don't think the room is assigned yet? 21:56:52 <leong_> only the time/date is known 21:56:56 <Arkady_Kanevsky> ok 21:57:23 <leong_> #topic Open 21:57:45 <Arkady_Kanevsky> none 21:57:47 <leong_> anyone has any Open for the remaining 3 minutes? 21:58:28 <leong_> as part of the "promoting" product wg effort, we need to have more collaboration with TC/UC and other working groups as well as users 21:58:35 <fungi> just chiming in because i missed the ping earlier, but happy to sync up with GeraldK on the git.openstack.org repo names for the feature tracker application and configuration management 21:58:53 <leong_> fungi: thanks! 21:58:59 <fungi> (note the github repo is deprecated as of last week) 22:00:04 <leong_> i will work with Shamail and UC in terms of more collaboration/sync with TC so that the effort is aligned 22:00:05 <shamail> fungi: Thanks, this is related to renaming openstack-user-stories 22:00:35 <leong_> GeraldK, Fungi, please loop me and shamail on the openstack-user-stories git renaming 22:01:21 <GeraldK> leong_: okay 22:01:21 <fungi> yep 22:01:21 <Arkady_Kanevsky> Fungi, can you send email with new github repo name 22:01:21 <leong_> we hit the time now... anything else please feel free to discuss on email thread 22:01:21 <Arkady_Kanevsky> and pointer 22:01:21 <leong_> thanks everyone again! 22:01:21 <Arkady_Kanevsky> bye bye 22:01:33 <leong_> shamail: i need to sync/ping with you later the week 22:01:36 <AndyU> bye all 22:01:40 <leong_> have a good day everyone! 22:01:44 <leong_> #endmeeting