14:00:18 <mihalis68> #startmeeting Ops Meetup Team 14:00:22 <mihalis68> hello everyone 14:00:26 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Nov 14 14:00:18 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mihalis68. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:27 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:00:29 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetup_team' 14:00:37 <med_> \o 14:00:39 <mihalis68> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team agenda 14:00:57 <mihalis68> if you are here for the meeting, please add your name to Attendees there on the etherpad 14:01:32 <shintaro> hi 14:01:46 <mihalis68> hi! 14:02:20 <mihalis68> #topic review of actions 14:02:46 <mihalis68> I had some actions about setting up ether pads for the recent summit, but I got busy. I believe Erik took care of those. 14:02:50 <mihalis68> Hi EMC 14:02:58 <emccormick> o/ 14:03:03 <mihalis68> also actions about getting the word out about various sessions. COMPLETE 14:03:21 <mihalis68> and another action regarding the openstack operators guide conversion to wiki - that is finally done! 14:03:24 <mihalis68> Link on the agenda 14:03:24 <emccormick> yeah I think we can scratch off all summit things ;) 14:03:36 <emccormick> woohoo! 14:03:38 <mihalis68> yeah. done or not done they are past 14:04:01 <mihalis68> the conversion was done by a canonical contractor I have David Desrosiers. I am very pleased with it 14:04:11 <med_> Met him in Sydney 14:04:21 <mihalis68> anyone else have updates on past actions? 14:04:25 <shintaro> great work! 14:04:34 <med_> SuSE has been notified of Sydney Ops Meetup 14:05:11 <mihalis68> #topic review Sydney summit 14:05:13 <med_> ah, I didn't meet David D in Sydney. Different guy. 14:05:17 <mihalis68> maybe Marcus? 14:05:36 <mihalis68> Marcus Furlong from my team attended, as well as Kundai Midzi 14:05:38 <med_> <shrug> someone. 14:06:01 <mihalis68> ok I can't usefully lead a review of this event, someone help please 14:06:20 <mihalis68> first subtopic was Tom's farewell 14:06:27 <med_> I put that on the list 14:06:49 <shintaro> great karaoke party 14:06:51 <med_> good turnout for Tom's farewell. I didn't stay until the bitter end. Not sure there was any announcement of his next adventure. 14:06:52 <mihalis68> unless you tell me different, I am seeing a tolkienesque farewell 14:06:55 <mihalis68> Tom getting on the boat 14:06:57 <med_> 50+ folks at the party 14:07:03 <mihalis68> good! 14:07:13 <emccormick> He doesn't know his next adventure 14:07:16 <med_> and foundation picked up the tab. 14:07:20 <emccormick> He's going on holiday until further notice 14:07:21 <mihalis68> I asked my guys to make sure he got a good sendoff 14:07:26 <med_> emccormick, can sing 14:07:28 <mihalis68> like make sure he didn't want for a beer or three 14:07:44 <mihalis68> Sounds like job well done 14:07:44 <emccormick> "Managing opensource communities isn't a career" so says he 14:07:45 <emccormick> :D 14:07:48 <mihalis68> we'll miss him 14:07:53 <emccormick> *duck* 14:08:11 <shintaro> we sure will 14:08:11 <emccormick> All things are possible with alcohol 14:08:28 <mihalis68> next sub-topic was OpenStack LTS releases 14:08:44 <emccormick> This needed to be a double session 14:09:02 <emccormick> but there was movement and it got hallway track action all day afterwards 14:09:04 <shintaro> That session was the most active and packed forum session 14:09:15 <shintaro> great moderation by emccormick 14:09:18 <emccormick> And nobody got stabbed 14:09:29 <emccormick> Thanks :). It kind of ran itself 14:09:32 <mihalis68> judging from afar, it seems the agreement is not quite what I hoped for 14:09:43 <mihalis68> I see talk of making it possible for other people to "do LTS work" 14:09:51 <emccormick> well it is getting a little twisted on the list 14:10:07 <mihalis68> admittedly the debate on the list has been very back and forth 14:10:13 <med_> it is basically that TC punts to UC for LTS work and distros and ops have to pick it up (my summary) 14:10:14 <emccormick> I've recovered enough now, I'm going to jump in and try to straighten things out a little 14:10:32 <med_> and every other release proposed as LTS 14:10:40 <mihalis68> #action emccormick to join the openstack Lts debate on the mailing list 14:10:50 <mihalis68> ah, every other is new to me 14:10:52 <mihalis68> thanks 14:11:02 <emccormick> There are a few barriers to be overcome to make the every other one happen. 14:11:07 <med_> that was the proposal I think seeded by Thierry 14:11:14 <emccormick> This is rather a multistep process 14:11:28 <mihalis68> one thing I did see was people questioning the rigid 2/year stable branch policy 14:11:32 <emccormick> Initially we are going to cease deleting old stable branches 14:11:37 <mihalis68> that's good 14:11:46 <mihalis68> I still feel the 2/year needs to be re-examined 14:11:51 <emccormick> then we are going to form a new team of reviewers 14:12:04 <mihalis68> the dev teams act like that's written in stone and requests for LTS are therefore requests for yet more work 14:12:13 <emccormick> this team / repo will maintain releases beyond stable branch policy 14:12:30 <emccormick> yes, this is a thing that needed overcoming 14:12:44 <emccormick> and this is how it can happen 14:12:48 <mihalis68> I guess there's no point in getting in too deep here, since it's a broad community issue and the debate is ongoing 14:12:59 <emccormick> numerous operators as well as distros are already maintaining releases beyond EOL 14:13:04 <mihalis68> I am pleased the debate got kicked off in earnest 14:13:06 <emccormick> they patch them and run their own CI on them 14:13:24 <emccormick> those CI's, in theory, can become voting members of the new repo. 14:13:45 <mihalis68> that's neat 14:14:00 <emccormick> That relieves stable branch guys from having to deal with OS changes breaking infra CI 14:14:18 <emccormick> in order to get to a real LTS though, we need the other thing to come to life 14:14:21 <shintaro> I hear distros has dedicated LTS maintainer team different from dev team so the model will be similar I guess 14:14:23 <emccormick> That thing being fast-forward upgrades 14:14:49 <mihalis68> is that the same thing as +2 upgrades? 14:14:55 <mihalis68> i.e. upgrade from older releases to current? 14:15:08 <emccormick> well it's exactly +2, at least to begin 14:15:10 <shintaro> not skip-level but fast-forward one by one 14:15:16 <mihalis68> "fast-forward" doesn't quite explain anything to me, sorry! 14:15:19 <emccormick> also from PTG notes I take it it will still require offline 14:15:35 <emccormick> at least at first 14:15:52 <emccormick> right, so simplification of what we do now. 14:16:31 <emccormick> The end game is still direct N -> N+2 without stopping over 14:16:50 <med_> fast-forward upgrades, as discussed at PTG and now SYD are one-by-one release upgrades with db upgrades. 14:16:50 <emccormick> and to have to maintain only N and N+2 while scrapping N+1 14:17:11 <med_> At SYD there was also discussion in LTS at having LTS to LTS upgrades (and that would be owned by whoever owns the LTS) 14:17:14 <emccormick> right. That's what they felt they could deal with right now 14:17:18 <med_> so kind of a skiplevel upgrade 14:17:35 <emccormick> deployment tools are in on that work 14:17:38 <med_> A (skip B) to C (skip D) to E 14:17:46 <emccormick> OSA already has it apparently, and Kolla is looking at it. 14:18:13 <emccormick> So anyway, the conversation and work will go on for numerous cycles. 14:18:32 <emccormick> But for now we can look forward to not deleting old versions, and some amount of patching and backporting going on. 14:18:34 <mihalis68> sure. but this is a start of something very important in my view (and of my employer) 14:18:39 <emccormick> which is better than what we have today 14:18:52 <mihalis68> so thank you emccormick! 14:19:02 <emccormick> One other barrier was that distros are night aligned on what they support 14:19:07 <mihalis68> any more on this topic? we are ~20 minutes in 14:19:24 <emccormick> look at the bottom of the etherpad and you'll see Suse is off one from Redhat and Canonical 14:19:30 <emccormick> no idea where Debian is at 14:19:53 <emccormick> also at the bottom of the etherpad is a large list of companies that wish to contribute 14:19:54 <med_> One other Sydney point, request/suggestions for better planning ahead of Vancouver. 14:19:57 <emccormick> I think that's the biggest deal in the whole thing 14:20:02 <mrhillsman> o/ 14:20:07 <mrhillsman> apologies so late 14:20:14 <mrhillsman> totally forgot about the time change 14:20:17 <emccormick> heya mrhillsman! 14:20:29 <shintaro> hi mrhillsman 14:21:39 <mihalis68> hi! 14:22:02 <med_> Pro-Tip: Google cal allows you to set UTC as the timezone so that it detaches from DST. 14:22:03 <mihalis68> med_ please elaborate on the planing request? 14:22:25 <mihalis68> is that something the operators community needs to raise the bar on ? 14:22:25 <med_> mihalis68, I think this was in the smaller session where it was mostly Foundation and the meetup ops team 14:22:57 <med_> I think so, yes, the Ops team needs to get more (if necessary) Forum sessions planned and on the cal. 14:23:11 <med_> in adv of Vancuver 14:23:20 <mihalis68> ok 14:23:21 <med_> unless they don't need more meetings.... 14:23:32 <med_> that's what I picked up. Maybe I misunderstood though. 14:23:37 <mihalis68> I am planning to make it to Vancouver 14:23:44 <med_> ack, likewise. 14:23:50 <mihalis68> great. let's make it best yet! 14:24:00 <mihalis68> I will endeavor to make it for day 1 this time! 14:24:08 <mihalis68> (painful travel SNAFU details elided) 14:24:26 <mihalis68> #topic Tokyo 14:24:39 <mihalis68> Thanks for the updates via the ether pad, shintaro 14:24:56 <mihalis68> sponsorship is requested for breakfast and schwag, and that's it? 14:25:09 <shintaro> right 14:25:22 <shintaro> other thing we will take care 14:25:29 <mihalis68> will you be able to provide details on who would be paid for those? 14:25:48 <mrhillsman> do you have cost for breakfast and schwag? 14:25:56 <mihalis68> that's a very generous hosting offer from NTT, by the way! 14:25:58 <mrhillsman> as well 14:26:02 <shintaro> our contractor will deal with the money 14:26:07 <mihalis68> yes, payment details and amounts 14:26:32 <mihalis68> speaking entirely personally, I love special logo t-shirts from events, with dates 14:26:42 <emccormick> Me too 14:26:44 <mihalis68> sadly the ones I got from mexico were in child sizes I think 14:26:46 <shintaro> waiting for breakfast cost. 14:26:50 <mrhillsman> lol 14:27:00 <emccormick> was a little bummed about the beach towel. Will have to wear it as a cape per med_ 14:27:14 <mihalis68> If you can share the cost as soon as you have it, I can see if Bloomberg will sponsor one of those 14:27:15 <mrhillsman> well, i hate to say it, but more than likely apac shirts will be undersized 14:27:32 <med_> it makes a fine cape. Not too bad as a beach towel either--lots of folks #afterstacked beach towel on actual beaches. 14:27:35 <emccormick> like EU shirts are HUGE 14:27:36 <mihalis68> seems like an habitual problem with branded clothes 14:27:46 <mihalis68> we just got bloomberg engineering hoodies 14:27:46 <shintaro> for us, US size is oversized :) 14:27:50 <mrhillsman> hehe 14:27:57 <emccormick> I was sad not to be able to stick around. Surfing looked great 14:27:58 <mihalis68> the 2X size I couldn't comfortable even get the sleeves over my arms 14:28:05 <med_> Yep, I don't think I can wear any shirts from EU or APAC. 14:28:16 <med_> but hats fit and umbrellas fit. 14:28:19 <emccormick> I swam in my large Barcelona shirt 14:28:25 <mihalis68> I also see that telecom track is moving forward? 14:28:52 <mrhillsman> i can ask as well shintaro huawei but not sure how that works so sooner the better on cost i'd imagine for sponsorship 14:28:53 <shintaro> I asked some telcos at the Summit to come to the Meetup 14:29:49 <mihalis68> sounds great. I am booked for Tokyo on eventbrite 14:29:54 <shintaro> I will ask my contractor to provide the cost ASAP mrhillsman 14:30:01 <mrhillsman> ;) 14:30:01 <mihalis68> seems like logistics are moving ahead very well 14:30:10 <mihalis68> what about 1st day evening social? 14:30:50 <shintaro> We got the budget and looking for the place. we couldn't reserve the beer place emccormick suggested 14:31:24 <mrhillsman> i loved the ping pong spot in NYC 14:31:26 <mihalis68> In NYC, the event was at a combined ping-pong hall/var 14:31:28 <mihalis68> bar 14:31:34 <mihalis68> yeah! 14:31:36 <mrhillsman> great minds 14:31:42 <mrhillsman> ;) 14:31:50 <shintaro> that place was great 14:31:50 <emccormick> There's a pool hall chain there in Tokyo 14:32:17 <mrhillsman> it was great having an activity vs food+beer(drinks) 14:32:18 <emccormick> I went on my birthday last time 14:32:21 <mrhillsman> only 14:33:01 <shintaro> I will check if we can find one 14:33:13 <mihalis68> maybe we could get a reservation at some place that has activities as well as refreshments? I love a beer hall, but it's not working out too well anyway, so... 14:33:21 <med_> Pinball/Arcade bars are getting very popular here in Colorado 14:33:25 <med_> that's another possibility 14:33:50 <mihalis68> is it time to start topic planning for Tokyo? 14:33:56 <med_> and the TopGolf thing is as well 14:33:59 <mihalis68> and do we need to change how we do it? 14:34:20 <mrhillsman> +1 to topic planning 14:34:38 <shintaro> +1 14:34:47 <emccormick> I can't read this, but check if there's a location near where we will be shintaro 14:34:48 <emccormick> https://r.gnavi.co.jp/g486509/ 14:34:52 <mihalis68> last comment on social: I do like mini golf! 14:35:17 <mihalis68> for topic planning, I would think we should embrace dual-track immediately 14:35:23 <mihalis68> so that's telecom and everything else 14:35:29 <mrhillsman> maybe keep how we do it but modify a little how we structure the topics? 14:35:34 <mrhillsman> +1 mihalis68 14:35:56 <mrhillsman> so it is not such an abrupt change? idk 14:36:27 <mihalis68> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TYO-ops-meetup-2018 14:37:06 <mihalis68> I see this already has telecom track 14:37:08 <shintaro> emccormick the place can hold only up to 40 people 14:37:10 <emccormick> Shall we blast that to the list to get people started putting topics in? 14:37:15 <mrhillsman> not sure if this was mentioned earlier re future ops meetups topic 14:37:20 <emccormick> :O 14:37:35 <emccormick> I went to the one kinda near Shinjuku and it was huge 14:37:39 <mrhillsman> but foundation was keen on, which we agreed, meetup feeding back into larger event cycle/system 14:37:44 <emccormick> guess the others are not so big 14:38:43 <mihalis68> I think in principle the feedback is expected to happen via etherpads 14:38:52 <mihalis68> in practice they are very scattered and disconnected in my view 14:39:06 <shintaro> emccormick I was wrong it can hold up to 180 people at maximum 14:39:38 <mihalis68> +1 from me for opportunity to demonstrate terrible pool skills 14:39:55 <emccormick> shintaro On a Tuesday it was empty. Maybe we can just rent the whole place ;) 14:39:59 * med_ is losing the thread of convo w/r/t Vancouver planning 14:40:08 <mihalis68> fair point 14:40:11 * med_ suspects renting a place like that is expensive 14:40:25 <med_> ah, maybe we are still on Tokyo. My bad. 14:40:28 <mihalis68> yeah 14:40:54 <mihalis68> the last comment on Vancouver was a request to do better planning and get more forum sessions together 14:40:59 <mihalis68> I think everyone agrees 14:41:05 <mihalis68> meanwhile next event is now Tokyo 14:41:15 <emccormick> Yeah. We need to solicit sessions before the foundation calls for it 14:41:20 <emccormick> Our etherpad was sad 14:41:27 <med_> Exceedingly unlikely I will attend Tokyo so I"m going to drop now for my next meeting. Good fortunes. I 14:41:33 <emccormick> Also we need to split up the submissions so I don't end up with 4 again ;) 14:41:34 <med_> I'll read scrollback later. 14:41:36 <mihalis68> if I might be permitted, I'd say: 14:41:37 <mihalis68> logistics: good 14:41:37 <mihalis68> telecom track: agreed 14:41:37 <mihalis68> other track: unknown 14:41:52 <mihalis68> bye med_ 14:42:01 <emccormick> have a good day med_ 14:42:18 <mihalis68> should we try to find volunteer owners for each track instead of for the whole event? 14:42:36 <mihalis68> for topic curation, moderator acquisition etc? 14:42:53 <shintaro> we will have one large room and two small rooms so we can have 3 sessions maximum 14:43:04 <emccormick> I think someone dedicated to curating NFV session would be good 14:43:15 <emccormick> I know squat about that stuff 14:43:18 <mihalis68> shintaro do you have event planning support within NTT? 14:43:31 <mihalis68> or is it on you? 14:43:49 <shintaro> what do you mean? 14:44:09 <mihalis68> will you be able to find time to lead planning on telecom track, perhaps? 14:44:20 <mihalis68> if you are busy with event logistics that might be too much to ask 14:44:31 <shintaro> I can. I have contact to several telcos 14:44:46 <shintaro> I can hand over logistics to my contractor 14:44:55 <mihalis68> Ok #agreed shintaro to own telecom track topics 14:45:05 <mihalis68> is there a volunteer to do the other track? 14:45:37 <mihalis68> I do want there to be non-telecom sessions 14:45:45 <mihalis68> for example Bloomberg is not a telecom company :) 14:45:46 <shintaro> I've asked several large operators to attend, too. Line and Yahoo!Japan 14:45:50 <emccormick> I'll handle the others 14:46:14 <mihalis68> #agreed emccormick to handle non-telecom-track session topic planning 14:46:17 <mihalis68> very good. I'll help 14:46:18 <mihalis68> thanks! 14:46:26 <mihalis68> any more about tokyo today? 14:46:59 <emccormick> Should we go ahead and start soliciting? 14:47:05 <mihalis68> yes I think so! 14:47:11 <emccormick> I can send out a general email for both tracks 14:47:25 <emccormick> maybe we'll just put a separate section in the etherpad for telco sessions 14:47:27 <mihalis68> I think med_ did have a point, I took the topic forward to tokyo without mentioning future meetups policy 14:47:33 <emccormick> that way they're separate to start 14:47:38 <mihalis68> +1 for separate sections 14:47:41 <mihalis68> much easier 14:47:48 <mihalis68> people will know if they are telecom track, I feel 14:47:49 <emccormick> k 14:48:00 <mrhillsman> sorry had to step away for a moment 14:48:20 <mihalis68> so backtracking, to honor the agenda, was progress made on whether to co-locate future ops meetups with PTG? 14:48:53 <mrhillsman> no progress 14:48:57 <mrhillsman> up for discussion 14:48:57 <shintaro> not really. 14:49:01 <mrhillsman> needs to make sense 14:49:30 <emccormick> I think we decided to table it until we see if we get proposals for fall 14:49:41 <emccormick> the issue is that PTG runs 5 days 14:49:42 <mihalis68> I don't really like the idea 14:49:47 <mihalis68> neither does VW IIRC 14:49:52 <emccormick> they've talked about shortening it, and if they do so, perhaps we can squeeze in easier 14:49:58 <mihalis68> anyone else have personal stance they wish to share? 14:50:01 <emccormick> but for now I think we are keeping it split 14:50:12 <mrhillsman> from going to the ptg, it could work imho 14:50:23 <mihalis68> yeah, there's going to be nothing left of the PTG people's energy after 5 days 14:50:41 <mrhillsman> first 3 days of the ptg, open discussions more or less, last 2, head down working 14:50:42 <mihalis68> as I see it, if operators meet up was part of PTG that would be one thing 14:51:07 <mihalis68> but just setting up our tent nearby and hoping to talk to the developers after PTG? Seems useless and humiliating 14:51:28 <mrhillsman> i do not think it was really about getting ptg folks to attend ops midcycle as much as it was reducing travel costs 14:51:41 <mrhillsman> and logistics, etc 14:51:56 <mihalis68> "hey, can we talk about skip-level db upgrades?" "sorry man, I'm tired and hungover so I booked an earlier flight" 14:51:58 <mrhillsman> at least from my perspective of the conversation 14:52:41 <mrhillsman> it has always been about cost reduction, travel fatigue, sponsor fatigue, etc 14:53:03 <emccormick> The sponsor fatigue is the big plus for colocation for me. 14:53:03 <mrhillsman> and where those who overlap can/would, they have a chance to 14:53:16 <mihalis68> I understand that would be great if it worked, but I just don't see it working 14:53:24 <emccormick> not too many people are inclined to spill over to both events. 14:53:34 <emccormick> but perhaps I'm underestimating them 14:53:57 <mrhillsman> they should not overlap i think is the key 14:54:02 <mihalis68> clearly an issue that must continue to be debated widely 14:54:07 <mihalis68> 6 minutes left 14:54:07 <zioproto> hello all 14:54:11 <mihalis68> hi there 14:54:16 <mrhillsman> hey zioproto 14:54:19 <zioproto> I think the bad idea was to make two events, one for developers and one for operators 14:54:26 <emccormick> hiya zioproto! 14:54:29 <zioproto> we have a community split that you can see also on the mailing lists. 14:54:30 <shintaro> Foundation said they can't afford two-week event 14:54:40 <zioproto> devs dont read operators ML 14:54:56 <mihalis68> well PTG has already been launched and is very strictly defined 14:54:58 <mrhillsman> ^ not entirely true 14:55:20 <mihalis68> I am an operator and there's no real valid reason for me to be at PTG, I've read their "who should attend" very carefully 14:55:21 <emccormick> well, it could be done as extra space within the same week I think 14:55:28 <mrhillsman> there are quite a few folks who read both lists, let's not make a blanket statement 14:55:29 <emccormick> eg. just an extra couple of rooms 14:55:53 <zioproto> not entirely true, but I read both lists, and I see some people only on 1 side and some other people only on the other side 14:55:59 <mrhillsman> mihalis68 it is not to make you attend the ptg 14:56:15 <mrhillsman> agreed zioproto 14:56:27 <mihalis68> I know, what I'm saying is zioproto said the mistake was to split them 14:56:28 <emccormick> we are talking colocation, not combination 14:56:34 <mrhillsman> ^ 14:56:34 <emccormick> I think we need to clarify that 14:56:37 <mihalis68> well PTG makes that definitive 14:56:45 <med_> reading scrollback VW was definitely against colo with pTG 14:56:50 <emccormick> it's 2 events under one roof 14:56:51 <zioproto> anything that goes in the direction of making devs and ops communities closer to each other is a good step for me. 14:56:57 <med_> and his point is we need to stand up on our own two feet 14:57:16 <emccormick> PTG is still as it was and Ops meetup is just there in other rooms and devs can pop in if they want. 14:57:26 <mihalis68> I am in favor of pulling things closer together again. However, PTG is very starkly defined. I am not attending that as a hanger-on 14:57:40 <mrhillsman> will definitely have to discuss further 14:57:51 <mrhillsman> not sure why we have to keep calling out attending the ptg 14:57:57 <emccormick> we need to dedicate a lot next week to this 14:58:05 <mrhillsman> no one is suggesting ops folks "have" to or should 14:58:14 <emccormick> we need to figure out which way we are going for next fall 14:58:14 <zioproto> I have been to a couple of ops mid-cycles, but never at the PTG. I will try to attend the next PTG and only then I can give my idea how to get the two events somehow closer to each other. 14:58:23 <emccormick> if we stay on our own we need to start soliciting proposals 14:58:27 <mihalis68> here is why: they have an event, they are in charge of it, it is located and timed for their convenience 14:58:37 <med_> not really 14:58:45 <med_> it's all done by the FOundation 14:58:48 <mrhillsman> ^ is it not also convenient for the ops midcycle is the question? 14:58:48 <med_> not by the devs 14:58:54 <mihalis68> I understand "co-location" not "attendance" but still 14:59:12 <emccormick> Their timing and ours are basically the same 14:59:17 <med_> I'd say they are in charge of content, yes. 14:59:23 <emccormick> mid way between summits 14:59:34 <mihalis68> we're out of time 14:59:37 * med_ goes to next meeting. TTFN. 14:59:40 <mrhillsman> :) 14:59:40 <emccormick> what is so dev specific about the venue? We would still do our own content 14:59:42 <med_> thanks mihalis68 14:59:46 <mihalis68> please check out the operators guide conversion (on the agenda linked above) 14:59:46 <emccormick> again it's not to become part of the PTG 14:59:54 <mrhillsman> guide looks great mihalis68 14:59:57 <mrhillsman> awesome work 15:00:06 <zioproto> thanks ! 15:00:06 <emccormick> it's to quit having to deal with venue problems and focus on content 15:00:09 <mihalis68> thanks for feedback. Everyone else please do check it out 15:00:20 <mihalis68> ok done 15:00:26 <mihalis68> #endmeeting