20:00:23 <ildikov> #startmeeting openstack_upstream_institute
20:00:23 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Oct 23 20:00:23 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:24 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:26 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_upstream_institute'
20:00:49 <mlavalle> o/
20:01:10 <ildikov> mlavalle: hi :)
20:03:26 <ildikov> mlavalle: will you come to Sydney?
20:03:40 <mlavalle> ildikov: yes, I'll see you there
20:03:42 <spotz> \o/
20:03:54 <ildikov> mlavalle: coming to the training too?
20:04:19 <mlavalle> ildikov: nope, personal issue. I'll get there Sunday at 7:45 am
20:04:39 <mlavalle> are we having a session on Sunday?
20:04:51 <ildikov> mlavalle: hmm, if you would be awake in the afternoon there are a few people interested in Networking
20:05:01 <ildikov> mlavalle: yep, we have a full day on Sunday
20:05:34 <mlavalle> ildikov: ok, I'll do my best to be there. in fact, I want to stay up that day, so I get used to the time zone as soon as possible
20:05:44 <mlavalle> I might take a nap and there head to the training
20:06:11 <ildikov> mlavalle: that would work out well as we have the deep dive discussions in the afternoon usually
20:06:21 <mlavalle> \cool
20:06:21 <ildikov> before that it's more general stuff and tools
20:06:44 <ildikov> ok, let's pretend we're having a meeting here :)
20:06:49 <mlavalle> LOL
20:07:20 <ildikov> mlavalle: big thanks of course! :)
20:07:22 <ildikov> #topic Announcements
20:07:38 <ildikov> so we had a training in Copenhagen last week
20:07:46 <ildikov> it went well, was a one day long version
20:07:56 <ildikov> we finished at the part of setting up the VM image
20:08:02 <ildikov> which works now BTW
20:08:20 <ildikov> we removed some optimization parts and now the image is up and running
20:08:30 <ildikov> we got good feedback from the attendees
20:08:41 <ildikov> so I hope a few of them sticks around
20:08:52 <spotz> cool
20:09:19 <ildikov> looking into the future Sydney is now at the door!
20:09:22 <mlavalle> ildikov: do we have an uptated version of the VM this time around?
20:09:28 <ildikov> I so con't believe it's next weekend...
20:09:55 <ildikov> mlavalle: I believe it should have all the latest Devstack in it
20:10:09 <ildikov> mlavalle: but will double check it with kmARC before the training
20:10:18 <mlavalle> ++
20:11:01 <ildikov> currently we have 24 people signed up
20:11:02 <kmARC> Yes we have (sorry, just landed, on the phone) over the week I'll send you the link.
20:11:21 <spotz> Yeah I'm in panic mode, I did get some Aussie cash in the mail today though:)
20:11:31 <ildikov> kmARC: no worries, I didn't want to rush you :)
20:11:42 <ildikov> spotz: nice :)
20:12:00 <ildikov> so I will send out the usual mails to the attendees soon
20:12:24 <ildikov> and we might get an additional group of people, but it's not confirmed yet
20:13:47 <ildikov> #topic Prep for Sydney
20:14:03 <ildikov> which brings me to remind you to double check the material
20:14:17 <ildikov> mtreinish updated the governance slides a bit
20:14:34 <mtreinish> just some small changes
20:14:50 <ildikov> I think jungleboyj still has his homework that he signed up for, don't remember which slide set that was though
20:15:20 <jungleboyj> Oy!  Sorry, missed the start of the meeting.  No ping.  Let me catch up on scroll back.
20:15:22 <spotz> I need to go through mine and also double check my git and gerrit stuff
20:15:39 <mtreinish> I did want to discuss the use of "big tent" on the project list slides
20:15:52 <mtreinish> that was somethign we're trying to move away because the message is confusing to people
20:15:57 <ildikov> jungleboyj: sorry, will ping next time, I need to update the list...
20:16:00 <mtreinish> not sure if we have enough time to rework that section before sydney though
20:16:06 <spotz> Github mailed earlier and the request for shipment is in. I just hope it comes before next Thursday to get packed
20:16:06 <ildikov> spotz: sounds good
20:16:29 <ildikov> mtreinish: true
20:16:41 <ildikov> mtreinish: I don't think we mention it much though
20:17:03 <ildikov> mtreinish: do you happen to have bandwidth to clean it up?
20:17:16 <jungleboyj> My homework is on the OpenStack Status and Zuul section.
20:17:16 <mtreinish> when I was reviewing that section it was pretty much core and big tent for everything
20:17:34 <mtreinish> ildikov: I can try, I'll have to brush up on my photo editing stuff, because one was an image
20:17:40 <jungleboyj> Need to update for the new Zuul and also some improvements to make with the flow.
20:17:49 <mtreinish> I'm also not sure what to change it to :)
20:18:02 <jungleboyj> We had notes on what needed to be done somewhere.  I need to find those.  That is on my plan for tomorrow.
20:18:28 <ildikov> mtreinish: we can remove the image in case needed rather than have things up which are confusing
20:18:54 <ildikov> jungleboyj: cool, that would've been my bet too
20:19:12 <ildikov> mtreinish: I guess just OpenStack :)
20:19:27 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Good.  Otherwise, the rest of the education all looked pretty good last time I ran through it.
20:19:27 <mtreinish> well I'll see what I can come up with, I've got some downtime in sydney before the summit I'll play around with it
20:20:16 <kmARC> diablo_rojo diablo_rojo_phon ildikov I had some advices regarding the structure of the material (what present when). I'd like to discuss it via hangouts. Do we have a decision on its timeslot?
20:21:05 <ildikov> kmARC: meeting invite sent
20:21:12 <ildikov> kmARC: Wednesday 2100 UTC
20:21:43 <kmARC> Oh thanks!
20:21:45 <spotz> ildikov: Now I gotta go translate that
20:21:47 <ildikov> kmARC: we can play with the order and for Vancouver we will try to switch to use the Contributor Portal plus exercises
20:22:01 <ildikov> which should give us more structure but still flexibility
20:22:15 <jungleboyj> spotz:  4 to 5 pm central
20:22:21 <ildikov> just not enough time to switch to anything like that for Sydney
20:22:21 <spotz> I didn't get an invite though:(
20:22:45 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, you don't think we cna just do things in a slightly different order?
20:22:45 <ildikov> spotz: what's your mail?
20:22:51 <spotz> amy@demarco.com
20:22:57 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Sounds like a plan on reorganizing.
20:23:11 <ildikov> spotz: hmm, that's what I have in the invite
20:23:19 <diablo_rojo> We don't need to change it officially just spread things out a little differently.
20:23:22 <spotz> ildikov: weird
20:23:29 <diablo_rojo> Especially‌ since it will all be changed anyway.
20:23:39 <spotz> cause it's in spam for some reason
20:24:05 <kmARC> ildikov: I didn't get the invite either
20:24:07 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: I said yes and that then we will change the whole thing for Vancouver
20:24:21 <ildikov> kmARC: check spam it seems
20:24:56 <ildikov> weird as I'm organizing another meeting too weekly now and they got te invite so far, must be some Monday craziness
20:25:15 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: or are we talking about different things?
20:25:15 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, oh, misinterpreted the 'just not enough time to switch to anything like that for Sydney' comment.
20:25:16 <diablo_rojo> My bad
20:25:22 <kmARC> Hah, it was in spam!
20:25:23 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Mine came with no problem.
20:25:46 <ildikov> I guess different clients handle it differently for some reason :/
20:25:47 <kmARC> (im using Google inbox, @spotz maybe too?)
20:25:50 <jungleboyj> The word is out that ildikov  is a spammer.
20:25:53 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, I was saying we should just reorder the modules a little for when we go through them.
20:25:54 <kmARC> 😀
20:26:01 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: ah, ok, yeah, that was for the bigger change :)
20:26:05 <spotz> kmARC: Yep gmail
20:26:07 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, got it :)
20:26:20 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: :)
20:26:35 * diablo_rojo has sick brain so everything is like three times harder at a minimum- reading and thinking included
20:27:21 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: I hear ya!
20:29:11 <spotz> I made the mistake of binge watching TV last night:(
20:29:22 <ildikov> we also have the sign-up sheet here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sydney-os-upstream-institute-module-sign-up
20:30:24 <diablo_rojo> so kmARC and I had talked about just moving some of the drier stuff to be more mixed into the hands on things. So starting with like the intros and then communication and events and then talking about the contribution process and reg/accts and then going into governance and release cycle and then onto task tracking gerrit, etc
20:30:47 <ildikov> we have the last two modules without presenter, but I think we can skip the last one as it's a giant overview anyway
20:30:55 <ildikov> we will see how things go on site
20:31:09 <diablo_rojo> We can be more forceful about getting everyone to participate too since we have so many mentors and so few registrants
20:31:34 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  I can take the second to the last one.
20:31:55 <ildikov> jungleboyj: cool
20:32:04 <diablo_rojo> Just means that no mentors are allowed to sit in the back on their laptops- they need to actually connect with the students and be more involved.
20:32:43 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: we can do that, however we will need to distribute the image at the beginning then
20:32:57 <diablo_rojo> I would maybe do that after events
20:33:02 <ildikov> not against the idea, just giving a reminder on how distracted people will be
20:33:09 <diablo_rojo> so that it happens early on but not RIIIGHT away
20:33:12 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  That has proved disasterous in the past.
20:33:20 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  ++
20:33:26 <diablo_rojo> I think if we are more attentive they will pay attention better.
20:34:07 <ildikov> in the long term we could try to play with creating teams from the people sitting in one group
20:34:22 <ildikov> which could give us more room with the ordering of the material as well
20:34:31 <diablo_rojo> Yeah that could work
20:34:32 <spotz> When we will have a head count, etc?
20:34:34 <ildikov> as we could somewhat demonstrate things
20:34:42 <diablo_rojo> spotz, I think reg is around 20 at this point.
20:34:50 <ildikov> I wouldn't do that for Sydney as we are not set up that way
20:34:50 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, can get the newest number
20:34:56 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, agreed
20:35:14 <ildikov> 24, but no one is confirmed yet and we might get another group which I don't know yet
20:35:27 <ildikov> so it's more Vancouver timeframe of brainstorming
20:35:42 <diablo_rojo> The hackathon was cancelled so there might be some people coming to hang out with us from there.
20:36:02 <spotz> In Boston a lot of friends grouped together, do we want to sperate folks out?
20:36:12 <spotz> oh no! That sounded like fun:(
20:36:29 <diablo_rojo> spotz, I think we still want to have them grouped according to project interest.
20:36:37 <ildikov> if we have a low number than I wouldn't enforce
20:36:40 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  ++
20:36:50 <diablo_rojo> If we can get them to disperse a little and talk to other people within that group it would be nice.
20:36:54 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
20:37:11 <spotz> +1
20:37:39 <diablo_rojo> I care more about keeping them involved and interested than forming their company cliques :)
20:37:47 <ildikov> with reordering of things we need to think about how many things we are referring to in each module that will be clarified later
20:37:54 <jungleboyj> Hopefully getting more activity in the exercises will help that.
20:38:01 <ildikov> and how valuable is to go through things without clarifying those
20:38:06 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, agreed
20:38:36 <ildikov> so if we have a small group of people we can experiment, if it turns out to be a decent-ish group then I would experiment less
20:38:48 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  ++
20:39:15 <diablo_rojo> I can propose a reorder as a patch or just edit that etherpad
20:39:32 <spotz> Yeah that's what we do in the lunch and learn, see who's there and if anyone's done pre-reqs and then tailoor to the room
20:39:53 <diablo_rojo> I have an idea in my head and can explain it too.
20:40:35 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: if you can get it up to Gerrit before the meeting then we can discuss it there
20:40:53 <spotz> ildikov: diablo_rojo Or discuss at meeting then put up?
20:40:58 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: and point there those who can't attend the meeting, like gmann_afk so they can share opinions too
20:41:57 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: spotz: either works for me
20:43:07 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: spotz: if not Gerrit then on the etherpad would be nice so we start from a common ground
20:43:34 <spotz> ildikov: Yeah I was thinking the ther first so people could see before it's discussed
20:43:40 <diablo_rojo> I will work on getting the patch done today/ tomorrow.
20:44:49 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: sounds good, thanks
20:45:38 <jungleboyj> Think we should be cautious about changing too much this late in the game.
20:45:59 <ildikov> jungleboyj: +1
20:46:05 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, just reordering, not changing content
20:46:14 <diablo_rojo> and not even reordering all that much.
20:46:39 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Yes, I see that but there are ordering dependencies there.  Will see what the patch looks like.
20:47:13 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, anything specific you want me to be mindful of?
20:47:46 <jungleboyj> Key things are keep release of the VM image out as long as possible.
20:48:34 <spotz> hehehe
20:49:01 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: jungleboyj: I think everyone has a point here and I also think it will be easier to sort things out with plans in front of our eyes
20:49:14 <jungleboyj> Will have to run through the patch otherwise to make sure we don't refer to upcoming content that has already been done and stuff like that.
20:49:22 <jungleboyj> ildikov: ++
20:49:35 <jungleboyj> I will reserve judgement.  :-)
20:49:41 <ildikov> :)
20:50:23 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, much appreciated.
20:50:37 <jungleboyj> :-)
20:50:59 <ildikov> I think we can switch to
20:51:05 <ildikov> #topic Open Discussion
20:51:26 <spotz> When where we going to meet up on Saturday?
20:52:02 <ildikov> with those who'll be around on Saturday we could do a before event gathering like in Boston
20:52:22 <ildikov> no idea about the area and options as of yet as for me...
20:52:26 <mlavalle> diablo_rojo: when are you publishing the schedule / rooms for the project on-boarding sessions?
20:52:36 <ildikov> but if there's interest then we can figure it out
20:52:42 <jungleboyj> I will be there all day on Saturday.  So, just let me know.
20:52:54 <ildikov> jungleboyj: ok, cool
20:52:56 <diablo_rojo> mlavalle, the last ones are being posted to day- will send out an email to the dev list when they are all posted.
20:53:07 <mlavalle> :-)
20:55:15 <ildikov> anything else for today?
20:55:28 <ildikov> I will keep everyone posted with Saturday plans once we have some :)
20:55:40 <kmARC> Sorry guys, I was running, only on my phone. Now I read it back; with what diablo_rojo says comes I agree fully: I observed on the Nordic days how no one was interested in some of the slides and basically they browsed news sites etc. And then I realized that their first energy boost on "let's learn something fun!" was channeled into the bourocratic stuff. That's why I initiated this convo
20:56:31 <kmARC> jungleboyj: let me explain it better over our hangouts call
20:56:49 <jungleboyj> kmARC: Ok.
20:56:55 <ildikov> kmARC: one more thought to think about here on this
20:57:09 <ildikov> kmARC: the problem is that we don't know how to engage people for those modules
20:57:22 <ildikov> kmARC: and re-ordering will not solve that problem
20:57:29 <spotz> all there Saturday as well, land at 6am
20:57:42 <ildikov> spotz: sounds painful :/
20:57:55 <spotz> ildikov: I sleep well on plans generally
20:58:23 <mlavalle> lucky you spotz... not my case
20:58:28 <spotz> And I thought we were starting aroound noon
20:58:34 <ildikov> spotz: lucky!
20:58:55 <jungleboyj> I normally sleep well.  Hoping that will again be the case for this trip.
20:58:55 <kmARC> ildikov: I know I know, I just wanted to raise awareness that currently our presentation feels buorocracy heavy and less tech heavy
20:58:58 <ildikov> spotz: I think it's 1pm or smth like on the schedule
20:59:33 <spotz> Oh and if you're interested in the ghost tour let Elise know
20:59:35 <ildikov> kmARC: it won't fundamentally change, we just need to figure out how to distract people from that feeling
21:00:21 <ildikov> kmARC: good point though, I noticed that too and it was a problem earlier as well
21:00:26 <kmARC> You mean distract me too 🙂
21:00:36 <ildikov> ok, slot is over here
21:00:40 <ildikov> we can move to the channel
21:00:49 <ildikov> thanks everyone!
21:00:51 <ildikov> #endmeeting