20:00:08 <ildikov> #startmeeting openstack_upstream_institute
20:00:09 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Aug 14 20:00:08 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:10 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:12 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_upstream_institute'
20:00:21 <smcginnis> o/
20:00:29 <skelso> o/
20:00:41 <spotz> \o/
20:00:44 <blancos> o/
20:01:14 <ildikov> hi All :)
20:01:14 <jungleboyj> @!
20:01:14 <kmARC> o/
20:01:15 <_pewp_> jungleboyj \(-_- )
20:01:25 <ildikov> agenda for today: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-upstream-institute-meetings
20:02:13 <ildikov> ok, let's start
20:02:15 <ildikov> #topic Announcements
20:02:49 <ildikov> good news we have the VM scripts and files under the OpenStack namespace now
20:02:54 <ildikov> in it's own repo
20:02:59 <ildikov> #link https://github.com/openstack/upstream-institute-virtual-environment
20:03:19 <diablo_rojo> Hello :)
20:03:21 <ildikov> I hope this will encourage people to help maintain it! :)
20:03:52 <ildikov> thanks to kmARC for the efforts so far!!!
20:03:58 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Good news.
20:04:03 <jungleboyj> kmARC:  Thank yoU!
20:04:04 <kmARC> yay! :-)
20:04:11 <diablo_rojo> Yes thank you kmARC :)
20:05:03 <jungleboyj> kmARC:  Are there any immediately pressing issues?
20:05:07 <kmARC> I hope this will encourage kmARC to finally set up automatic image creation to tarballs.o.o :-D
20:05:13 <ildikov> and staying with this we can move to the next topic
20:05:17 <ildikov> #topic Look into having a job to upload the image to tarballs.o.o
20:05:35 <ildikov> kmARC: I remember you mentioned there were issues the last time
20:05:49 <kmARC> jungleboyj: no urgent ones. as the topic says, it would be nice to have it automated
20:05:52 <ildikov> kmARC: do you remember what were those?
20:06:12 <kmARC> IIRC, the biggest problem is that we use virtualbox bc of Vagrant
20:06:57 <kmARC> the packaging script itself is supersimple, does everything for you except for vagrant and virtualbox installation
20:08:01 <ildikov> and what would be the plan with this issue?
20:08:33 <spotz> Is there a reason we can't use virtualbox would be a question too
20:09:19 <jungleboyj> spotz:  ++
20:09:21 <smcginnis> Would be great if we could have someone donate cloud VMs that could just be provided and ready to go.
20:09:36 <jungleboyj> smcginnis:  That would be nice.  Would save a lot of trouble.
20:09:57 <smcginnis> Yeah, based on Boston, that could cut out half a day of fiddling around.
20:10:00 <jungleboyj> skelso:  Since we have been sponsoring this is there any way we could do that?
20:10:05 <ildikov> smcginnis: you mean cloud instances for the time of the training?
20:10:09 <jungleboyj> smcginnis:  ++
20:10:29 <diablo_rojo> Just have people ssh into them
20:10:30 <smcginnis> ildikov: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
20:10:42 <jungleboyj> Yep!
20:10:46 <kmARC> diablo_rojo: We had it in Barcelona, only one person used it....
20:10:47 <ildikov> we had that option provided by DreamHost in Barcelona
20:10:48 <spotz> smcginnis: jungleboyj - draw back on that could be connectivity though:(
20:10:55 <smcginnis> ildikov: Kind of nice to have something local they can play around with later, but for the purpose of training it would be nice to be able to jump right in.
20:10:59 <ildikov> people weren't that interested in it and it also had limitations
20:11:07 <kmARC> I also think local is better btw.
20:11:09 <smcginnis> spotz: jungleboyj know how to get wifi working. :D
20:11:20 <ildikov> spotz: +1
20:11:25 <jungleboyj> smcginnis:  :-p
20:11:36 <diablo_rojo> spotz, we generally have better wifi than ghc and jungleboyj's phone ;)
20:11:46 <spotz> smcginnis: haha, Advantage is it's before the main conference but I still remember the nightmare which was networking in Tokyo
20:11:54 <ildikov> and a remote env has it's limitations usually as for graphical interface, etc
20:11:56 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Hey, my phone did quite well thank you.  ;-)
20:12:11 <ildikov> not everyone is full command line friendly for all the bits and pieces
20:12:19 <jungleboyj> anyone want to bring a big server along?
20:12:28 <skelso> jungleboyj: Not sure where we'd host, have to look in to it. I like VirtualBox b/c I have a working environment to ref after class ends - agree with smcginnis.
20:13:06 <jungleboyj> skelso:  There is that aspect.  Just always frustrating spending a day debugging individual issues.
20:13:21 <ildikov> I still prefer the local option, most of the issues are coming from the registartions
20:13:27 <diablo_rojo> Agree with referring back to it.
20:13:41 <ildikov> but that got simplified now, so hopefully we will spend less time on that from now on
20:13:57 <smcginnis> ildikov: ++
20:14:08 <kmARC> ildikov: jungleboyj is right in that many people come with _REALLY_ funny firewall setups, or a 75 years old laptop with HDDs of the spead of a tape
20:14:51 <jungleboyj> kmARC: Can I run from my tape drive?
20:15:01 <kmARC> we implemented a lot of quirks last time in boston within half a day
20:15:03 <ildikov> kmARC: yeah, there's always some
20:15:10 <spotz> I wonder if we could get a rasberry pi or something with enough storage...
20:15:36 <kmARC> HOWEVER, :cough: if the upstream institute members would test it on their laptops as I always ask before the summits, then these problems could be avoided ;-)
20:15:41 <jungleboyj> ildikov: diablo_rojo  Maybe we just need to make a requirement for machine type/speed and say that if they can't  meet the requirements we can't guarantee their local env will work.
20:15:58 * jungleboyj whistles and walks away.
20:15:59 <spotz> kmARC: That would mean preparring ahead of time!!:)
20:16:08 <jungleboyj> spotz:  Blasphemy!
20:16:14 <ildikov> jungleboyj: we have a requirements list on the website already
20:16:19 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, that's kind of what we do already saying what sort of reqs people need, but we can stress it more
20:16:52 <kmARC> c'mon ppl, I have such an easy to follow readme prepared, it doesn't take longer than an hour to test it
20:16:52 <ildikov> jungleboyj: kmARC: feel free to update the requirements as you see fit and add a disclaimer
20:16:53 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Yeah ... so we can kind of say, ok, we aren't going to waste time on that.
20:17:07 <kmARC> I want volunteers with macs and windows's
20:17:12 <jungleboyj> kmARC: Agreed.  We should all do that beforehand.
20:17:16 <kmARC> windowses? windowss?
20:17:17 <diablo_rojo> Yeah, we can definitely stress that in the emails we send out asking people to do the prereqs
20:17:24 <spotz> what's a windows?
20:17:36 <ildikov> kmARC: it worked well for me on Mac the last time, I didn't hit the race
20:17:37 <diablo_rojo> windowses sounds like how golum would say it
20:17:47 <diablo_rojo> filthy little windowses
20:17:54 <spotz> And just say they're welcome and we'll "TRY" to pair them up if they can't meet the reqs diablo_rojo
20:18:11 <kmARC> speed virtualbox dating
20:18:11 <spotz> diablo_rojo: heheh
20:18:22 <diablo_rojo> spotz, yeah
20:18:23 * jungleboyj is laughing.
20:18:36 <jungleboyj> spotz: :-)
20:19:07 <skelso> Maybe offer both options? Local preferred, but here's a set-up VM if your laptop isn't up to the task (and if we can get VMs).
20:19:08 <jungleboyj> spotz:  I like that statement.
20:19:28 <jungleboyj> skelso:  That was what we did in BCN I think.
20:19:29 <diablo_rojo> skelso, +1
20:19:41 <spotz> I'd have it as a backup but not announce it
20:19:45 <kmARC> skelso: that's what we offered in BCN, tehere were about 60 participants, ONE person used the vms while I carefully prepared twenty
20:19:47 <ildikov> skelso: yeah, that's what we offered in Barcelona
20:19:57 <spotz> That wy if you don't have enough for everyone you should be ok
20:20:27 <ildikov> skelso: not sure whether we got to use the cloud VM's though and we need to figure out where to get those if we vote on that
20:20:32 <jungleboyj> spotz:  That could work.  I have a system in my basement that can run a few VMs.
20:20:51 <ildikov> kmARC: I was debating between zero and one :)
20:20:52 <jungleboyj> But then that requires a VPN.  Scratch that.
20:21:12 <ildikov> we will be in Sydney, so please calculate with distance as well
20:21:25 <jungleboyj> skelso:  Could we get a beefy laptop I could take along and have that as an option for people to connect to?
20:21:33 <kmARC> amazon!
20:21:34 <ildikov> and I'm not sure we have that many problems with the VM
20:21:42 <spotz> rasberry pi, small and portable and not all that expensive and if it gets confiscated you wouldnn't cry
20:21:56 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Right, we just need a few at most.
20:22:00 <ildikov> kmARC: I'm not gonna pay for that... :)
20:22:02 <spotz> Ok kmARC You're out of the group!:)
20:22:05 <skelso> JungleboyJ: Not out of the question.
20:22:14 <kmARC> so what if we have a test-bootcamp, wher for example, every one of this meeting would try out installing....?
20:22:19 <jungleboyj> spotz:  You are so delightfully nerdy.  ;-)
20:22:32 <spotz> jungleboyj: hehehe
20:22:46 <ildikov> kmARC: we need it updated to Pike and then get into testing, right?
20:22:53 <skelso> Usually it's all about having enough RAM. kmARC: What's the VM require?
20:23:15 <kmARC> ildikov: well, we use master branch, so consider it done.
20:23:38 <jungleboyj> skelso:  Right, a W530 can run at least 6 or 8 of them.
20:23:51 <kmARC> skelso https://github.com/kmARC/openstack-training-virtual-environment#minimum-requirements
20:23:52 <ildikov> kmARC: cool, then I'll set it up and see what happens
20:24:08 <skelso> kmARC: Got it, thanks.
20:24:14 <ildikov> also I think we had bigger issues with timing
20:24:33 <ildikov> if we give people the toy in the first hour, they will play with it, let that be a local or a cloud VM somewhere
20:24:43 <ildikov> and I would guarantee they'll mess it up...
20:25:15 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Yeah, we really don't want to have that happen again.  That was a huge distraction.
20:25:36 <ildikov> jungleboyj: agreed
20:25:37 <spotz> +1 jungleboyj
20:25:37 <kmARC> ildikov, gimme another week, I have some scripts around memory optimization, which might not apply to pike. I need to review them
20:26:03 <ildikov> kmARC: sounds good
20:26:51 <ildikov> kmARC: did we get anywhere with the next steps on the automation?
20:27:55 <kmARC> nope, not yet. I need to talk to fungi again
20:29:05 * fungi doesn't recall where that conversation ended
20:29:06 <kmARC> The problem is there is no CI runner that would be able to run vagrant
20:29:06 <ildikov> kmARC: ok, we can get back to this
20:29:12 <kmARC> they use diskimage-builder
20:29:29 <ildikov> kmARC: the folder name should be updated too from training-labs as we're another project
20:29:34 <fungi> well, we use diskimage-builder to create images, not to boot them
20:29:38 <kmARC> my thing MUST produce a vmdk and ovf files tho
20:30:22 <fungi> can't get there from raw, qcow2 or whatever the third kind of image dib makes i guess?
20:30:52 <smcginnis> kmARC: ++ IIRC we had a mix of VMware Workstation and Windows Hyper-V.
20:31:13 <kmARC> that's just a disk. If we get that, convert it to vmdk, minimize it with vmware-tools, AND bundle it with the ovf xmls....
20:31:17 <kmARC> this is like one command for me now
20:31:18 <fungi> at any rate, we don't require diskimage-builder use for any jobs, we just use it to create the images on which jobs run. there's a layering confusion here, i expect
20:32:20 <kmARC> okay ildikov, fungi, let's not hijack this meeting, I'll come back to you fungi about my needs and wants :-)
20:32:22 <fungi> jobs are simply run within single-use virtual machines, but you can use tools in those virtual machines to build container images and spawn containers
20:32:42 <ildikov> kmARC: +1 :)
20:32:52 <fungi> cool, we can hash out the confusion in #openstack-infra when you're ready
20:33:02 <ildikov> fungi: thank you!
20:33:03 <kmARC> I was born ready!
20:33:11 <ildikov> lol :)
20:33:20 <ildikov> then we can switch topics :)
20:33:30 <ildikov> or anything else to this one?
20:34:01 <ildikov> #topic Proposal to maintain the list of tags on the website
20:35:15 <ildikov> so we said we will add tags to the slide decks and exercises to indicate who it's useful for, whether we recommend it for a longer or shorter training, and so forth
20:35:39 <ildikov> the idea is to agree on a base set and have them listed on the web page with a short description
20:36:00 <ildikov> diablo_rojo created an etherpad to start to collect the list
20:36:10 <ildikov> tag etherpad: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OUI_Module_tags
20:36:36 <ildikov> you can find a few ones there already
20:37:08 <ildikov> we don't want too many, but let's see what makes sense on the first run and then fine tune it
20:37:33 <ildikov> please review the current ones and comment on it and add new ones as it makes sense to you
20:37:56 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: would you like to add anything?
20:38:26 <diablo_rojo> We should decide and finalize in the next week so that we can get reviews up and merged with plenty of time to spare for the OSD UK event
20:38:39 <diablo_rojo> So make comments and whatnot by Sunday
20:38:48 <jungleboyj> Ok, I need to look through that.
20:39:01 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, its pretty short. I only have 5 tags
20:39:46 <ildikov> I will send out a reminder about this to the ML as not everyone from the team is here
20:40:00 <jungleboyj> I have been making good progress with the team I have been working with in China.  Two 1 hour sessions thus far and we have gotten to Taks tracking.
20:40:12 <jungleboyj> *Task tracking
20:40:27 <ildikov> sounds good!
20:40:41 <smcginnis> jungleboyj: Say that five times fast.
20:40:57 <ildikov> smcginnis: lol :)
20:41:03 <jungleboyj> smcginnis:  What can I say?  I am good.  ;-)
20:41:15 <jungleboyj> We skipped account creation, they already had done that.
20:41:34 <jungleboyj> OpenStack Events got covered in other sections.
20:41:50 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, let me know if you have questions about Storyboard :)
20:41:53 <ildikov> jungleboyj: if there's a tagging scheme on how to make the training shorter based on your experience that comes to mind please add it to the etherpad
20:42:02 <jungleboyj> The already knew the projects.
20:42:20 <jungleboyj> Yeah, let me look and think about that.
20:42:29 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Oh, I have questions.  ;-)
20:42:36 <ildikov> jungleboyj: great, thank you
20:42:59 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Welcome.
20:43:15 <ildikov> ok, I guess we can switch to open discussion :)
20:43:19 <jungleboyj> My big thing is I can't figure out how to get people to do the exercises when it is remote.
20:43:37 <ildikov> #topic Open discussion
20:44:03 <ildikov> jungleboyj: that sounds like a confirmation to why we're not recommending doing this remotely
20:44:39 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Right.  Some of it I think was cultural barrier with China.  They don't have as easy access to Google so the things weren't quick.
20:45:05 <ildikov> jungleboyj: yeah, China makes things harder for sure
20:45:08 <jungleboyj> Also people with more experience so they didn't need it as much as others.
20:45:19 <jungleboyj> Yep.
20:45:23 <ildikov> jungleboyj: and also if you don't have someone locally acting as a mentor that's tough
20:45:59 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Right, this is the group I am hoping will become mentors.
20:46:14 <ildikov> jungleboyj: sounds good
20:47:00 <ildikov> jungleboyj: that should simplify things
20:47:06 <ildikov> at least in theory :)
20:47:10 * jungleboyj crosses my fingers
20:47:16 <ildikov> :)
20:47:51 <ildikov> ok, I don't have further topics for today
20:47:58 <ildikov> anything else from anyone?
20:48:04 <diablo_rojo> I got nothing :)
20:48:23 <ildikov> :)
20:48:28 <smcginnis> Still looking for European mentors?
20:48:38 <ildikov> smcginnis: yep
20:48:48 <smcginnis> ildikov: What are the events again?
20:48:52 <diablo_rojo> smcginnis, yes, waiting to hear back from the OSD UK people still too.
20:48:57 <diablo_rojo> smcginnis, OSD UK and Nordic
20:49:07 <ildikov> smcginnis: OpenStack Days UK in September and Nordic in October
20:49:13 <smcginnis> diablo_rojo: Cool, thanks.
20:49:33 <ildikov> smcginnis: Nordic is Copenhagen
20:49:38 <diablo_rojo> Sept 26th and October...17/18? 16/17?
20:49:52 <smcginnis> I may be returning from a trip past the UK around that time. Maybe I can convince them to drop me off. :)
20:49:55 <ildikov> 18/19 :)
20:50:05 <diablo_rojo> Ha ha I was close :)
20:50:09 <ildikov> smcginnis: that would be cool!
20:50:13 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: :)
20:50:24 <diablo_rojo> smcginnis, that would be awesome
20:52:01 <ildikov> ok, I think that concludes our meeting for today
20:52:05 <ildikov> thanks everyone!
20:52:19 <diablo_rojo> Thank you ildikov :)
20:52:29 <ildikov> please do your homework and check on the tags etherpad and make yourself familiar with the VM scripts!!!
20:52:33 <jungleboyj> Thanks ildikov !
20:52:35 <jungleboyj> @!
20:52:36 <_pewp_> jungleboyj (=゚ω゚)ノ
20:52:38 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, +2 !
20:52:40 <smcginnis> Thanks
20:52:45 <ildikov> and have a good rest of the day everyone!
20:52:58 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Have a good night.
20:53:02 <ildikov> #endmeeting