20:00:03 <ildikov> #startmeeting openstack_upstream_institute
20:00:04 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Jul 31 20:00:03 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:05 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:07 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_upstream_institute'
20:00:27 * smcginnis is lurking
20:00:36 <mpranjic> evening
20:00:39 <jungleboyj> @!
20:00:40 <_pewp_> jungleboyj (;-_-)ノ
20:00:52 <spotz> \o/
20:00:53 <ildikov> hi All :)
20:01:02 <mpranjic> hello all :)
20:01:17 <ildikov> long time no see
20:01:17 <blancos> o/
20:01:27 <ildikov> I hope everyone survived the code freeze ok!
20:01:34 <diablo_rojo> Hello :)
20:01:52 <jungleboyj> :-)
20:02:12 <ildikov> ok, let's dive in :)
20:02:17 <ildikov> #topic Announcements
20:02:49 <ildikov> as we mentioned earlier we're bringing the Upstream Institute class to OpenStack Days events when there's interest
20:03:11 <ildikov> we have UK and Nordic where they plan to run the training this year
20:03:38 <mpranjic> Nordic is in Danmark?
20:03:57 <ildikov> most of the topics of the meeting is about this :)
20:04:14 <ildikov> mpranjic: yes
20:04:21 <jungleboyj> Nice.
20:04:24 <ildikov> mpranjic: Copenhagen
20:04:42 <ildikov> UK is London
20:05:02 <ildikov> ok, let's move forward
20:05:07 <ildikov> #topic Mentors needed for OSD events
20:05:30 <ildikov> we are contacting the organizers right now to agree on the details
20:05:52 <ildikov> but basically it would be great to have people around who can help us for these local events
20:05:56 <smcginnis> ildikov: Do you have the dates on these? I may be able to be a mentor but would need to check on scheduling.
20:06:11 <ildikov> UK is Sept. 26
20:06:26 <diablo_rojo> #link https://openstackdays.uk/2017/ OSD UK
20:06:47 <ildikov> and Nordic is Oct 18-19
20:07:03 <smcginnis> ildikov, diablo_rojo: Thanks!
20:07:04 <mpranjic> I am on standby atm. changing jobs form September. not sure if I will get aproval to travel from Oslo to Cppenhagen in October yet :/
20:07:05 <ildikov> #link http://openstacknordic.org
20:07:26 <ildikov> mpranjic: congrats for your new job! :)
20:07:42 <spotz> congrats mpranjic
20:07:49 <mpranjic> ildikov: thnx :) it's messing up my routine a bit, but it will be ok :)
20:07:50 <jungleboyj> mpranjic: ++
20:07:53 <ildikov> mpranjic: and we hope for the best, please keep us posted
20:08:12 <ildikov> mpranjic: I hope it will! :)
20:08:13 <mpranjic> ildikov: will do. would love to be there
20:08:31 <ildikov> mpranjic: sounds good, thank you!
20:08:44 <ildikov> the idea with these events is to get people there as mentors from the area
20:09:05 <ildikov> this obviously doesn't mean we don't want others there
20:09:33 <diablo_rojo> Locals would just be excellent because the local devs can meet up with them after the training is done.
20:09:33 <ildikov> we still would like to have all the help and involvement we can get
20:09:49 <diablo_rojo> Will not be rejecting help  :)
20:09:58 <ildikov> and the time zone is matching even if the cities don't
20:10:03 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
20:10:47 <ildikov> one thing that we learned from the OPNFV Summit occasion that when the training is running in parallel to an event it can be trick from attendance perspective
20:11:08 <ildikov> for Nordic we have a separate day for the training
20:11:19 <ildikov> for UK it will run in parallel to the event
20:11:30 <smcginnis> ildikov: That's unfortunate.
20:11:36 <ildikov> smcginnis: yep :(
20:11:46 <ildikov> smcginnis: still a starting point though :)
20:11:47 <diablo_rojo> Quite, but the whole event is only one day
20:11:57 <spotz> folks don't want to give up the rest of the events:(
20:12:11 <diablo_rojo> Maybe next year they can do it the day before or after
20:12:16 <ildikov> so we need to prepare that we don't have people committed for the whole day
20:12:34 <diablo_rojo> Emphasize modularity :)
20:12:57 <ildikov> in which case we switch to kind of office hours, ask the experts, etc.
20:13:07 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: exactly! :)
20:13:23 <ildikov> which brings us to the next topic
20:13:25 <diablo_rojo> More or less worked at the OPNFV Summit
20:13:28 <ildikov> #topic Prepare the training material to shorten it to fit a day
20:14:03 <ildikov> either with office hours or with a full focused day we need to be able to shorten the training to a day kind of on demand
20:14:19 <ildikov> in which modularity is one thing that can help
20:14:50 <diablo_rojo> Being able to do a section and skip around is a good way to go.
20:14:50 <ildikov> we can also tag the modules maybe with what to prioritize with less available time
20:15:04 <ildikov> tag exercises which one to skip if time does not allow to have them all
20:15:09 <spotz> mist covers and ok to skips
20:15:28 <ildikov> yep
20:16:26 <diablo_rojo> Could tag them with the job titles that would be interested
20:16:32 <ildikov> so we can soon start the regular round on going through the material and update it with these thoughts in mind
20:17:15 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
20:17:34 <diablo_rojo> I think we want to avoid cutting things down wherever possible unless its useless info so that we don't have to undo everything for Sydney
20:18:00 <ildikov> we shouldn't remove material for the shorter trainings
20:18:12 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  I would assume we wouldn't actually remove content.  Just mark what is more relevant.
20:18:19 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Ok.  *Phew*
20:18:36 <ildikov> we can have more and shorter slide decks and mark which one to use and which one to skip
20:18:48 <diablo_rojo> Maybe add to notes?
20:19:06 <ildikov> but we should not explicitly remove things in my opinion
20:19:14 <diablo_rojo> Agree.
20:19:26 <diablo_rojo> Avoid cutting, just general cleanup.
20:19:27 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Is there a way to have multiple builds with different slides without having to duplicate content?
20:19:28 <ildikov> especially that anyone can pick up the material locally any time without us and we should keep supporting that
20:19:41 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, I was wondering that myself.
20:19:46 <jungleboyj> :-)
20:19:57 <ildikov> notes can help, we didn't really finish the notes for speakers part anyhow as far as I remember
20:20:07 <jungleboyj> FYI, I am going to start running the education internally with some of my team in Asia.
20:20:16 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  No we didn't.
20:20:53 <ildikov> jungleboyj: we can check the build, it should be doable technically
20:21:07 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, cool :)
20:21:24 <ildikov> jungleboyj: it might remove some flexibility, so let's see how small modules we can form and then figure out what would make more sense
20:21:47 <ildikov> jungleboyj: and having the trainings running internally sounds great! :)
20:22:05 <diablo_rojo> I wonder if there are any sections we can break up even smaller.
20:22:19 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Yeah, it would be nice if there was some way to do that something we can look into so we would have the full education slides and then a build for a single day.
20:22:22 <ildikov> not sure at this point
20:22:29 <diablo_rojo> I know some of the CLA info is going to change again too.
20:22:35 <ildikov> we might just mark exercises inside them
20:22:38 <jungleboyj> Almost wonder if we split things up smaller if we could do it with links from another build directory.
20:22:55 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, yes, that's what I was thinking
20:23:01 <diablo_rojo> Good idea ;)
20:23:17 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: yeah, and we can also look into the Contributor Portal activities and connect the training with that site from material perspective
20:23:18 <spotz> Don't see why not, one page leads into full training, one leads into 1 day training, etc
20:23:20 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Yeah, it is going to be spread out over multiple 1 hour sessions starting tomorrow.  We shall see how it goes.
20:23:52 <smcginnis> We need a choose-your-own-adventure contributor portal. :)
20:23:59 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, see if there are any modules that would be good to break down smaller
20:24:07 <diablo_rojo> smcginnis, thats what the contributor portal will be
20:24:12 <ildikov> smcginnis: that's how it's supposed to look like in some extent :)
20:24:12 <smcginnis> diablo_rojo: Nice!
20:24:43 <diablo_rojo> smcginnis, yep :) Its juuuuuust starting to kind of get off the ground. Gonna be a little while before we have something to show.
20:24:48 <jungleboyj> smcginnis:  Yeah, it sounds like it could be good.
20:24:51 <ildikov> jungleboyj: spotz: yeah, it's just tricky what you stamp with one day training, etc :)
20:25:04 <jungleboyj> ildikov: :-)
20:25:19 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: we have some material on the website we could donate there though
20:25:25 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Sure, I will see if there is anything that can be slimmed down as I go through.
20:25:32 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: like I think we still have some of the IRC setup things, I need to check
20:25:57 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, thank you :) Good luck!
20:26:17 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Thanks.  Giving it remote to Asia is going to be interesting but I am glad I have people interested.
20:26:23 <ildikov> jungleboyj: sounds good, thanks!
20:26:53 <ildikov> jungleboyj: remote is always tough :(
20:27:06 <jungleboyj> I will figure it out.
20:27:13 <diablo_rojo> Hopefully they can find all the things through baidu
20:27:15 <jungleboyj> Done it before.  :-)
20:27:51 <ildikov> jungleboyj: if you have multiple groups of people you might have people to help you from the first ones
20:28:11 <jungleboyj> Yeah, that is the plan in the future.  This is just a seed group.
20:28:29 <jungleboyj> Need a few people to drink the kool-aid first.
20:28:48 * jungleboyj crashes through the wall ... "Oh yeah!"
20:28:56 <ildikov> :)
20:29:15 <diablo_rojo> Clear the drywall and bricks out before you let them drink it :)
20:29:34 <jungleboyj> :-)
20:29:51 <ildikov> :)
20:30:46 <ildikov> so basically that's what I had in mind for today
20:31:00 <ildikov> with the speaker notes we are also preparing for Sydney
20:31:20 <ildikov> to which we are trying to have the details figured out as well
20:31:46 <ildikov> we will keep everyone posted once we have more info about that one
20:32:08 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Yeah, that will be good to get better notes for Sydney.
20:32:12 <ildikov> anyone who has time and ideas please start to propose changes/updates to the material
20:32:48 <jungleboyj> I still have a todo to fix up the section I added last time.
20:32:53 <mlavalle> but basically, the idea is the same, right: training on Saturday - Sunday prior to the summit?
20:33:02 <jungleboyj> Drowning in Cinder documentation right now though.
20:33:03 <ildikov> with the modules and smaller bits let's start with the slides for now and figure out whether or not we want to play with the build when we're fine with the content and structure
20:33:55 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, Drowning? Don't you mean majestically running through fields of cinder documentation?
20:33:56 <ildikov> mlavalle: yes that's the plan, I will double check whether it's stamped already
20:34:06 <diablo_rojo> mlavalle, yep :)
20:34:15 <diablo_rojo> claro que si :)
20:34:35 <mlavalle> ildikov, diablo_rojo: thanks, I need to prepare my management well in advance ;-)
20:34:38 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  :-p
20:34:44 <jungleboyj> @!h
20:34:44 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: whatever that involves Sphinx also involves drowning... :)
20:34:45 <_pewp_> jungleboyj (/ .□.) ︵╰(゜Д゜)╯︵ /(.□. )
20:34:55 <mpranjic> :)
20:34:57 <mlavalle> diablo_rojo: muy bien
20:35:06 <ildikov> mlavalle: we will know for sure by the time your management gets on board :)
20:35:07 <diablo_rojo> I will admit I am not sphinx's biggest fan..
20:35:19 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Thank you!  I am glad I am not the only one who feels that way.  I enjoy making it work but what a pain at times.
20:35:32 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, finicky as hell
20:35:34 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: it's not that bad once you figured out the few things you need to know for our docs
20:35:52 <ildikov> jungleboyj: I did this for Ceilometer
20:35:57 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Yep.  Ooops, extra space.  I am going to vomit 10 lines later.
20:36:13 <diablo_rojo> NOT AN EXTRA SPACE OMG PANIC
20:36:37 <ildikov> we can have a Sphinx drinking club at the PTG :)
20:36:47 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  ++
20:36:56 <jungleboyj> Hopefully by then I will be a master.
20:38:02 <ildikov> jungleboyj: good luck! :)
20:38:13 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Thanks, I need it.
20:38:21 <ildikov> ok, I think we can switch to open discussion :)
20:38:31 <ildikov> #topic Open discussion
20:38:54 <mpranjic> ok, in case I get aproval in October, what help is needed in Copenhagen?
20:38:56 <ildikov> so anything training related from anyone? :)
20:39:15 <ildikov> mpranjic: it will be the regular you can present any of the modules
20:39:24 <diablo_rojo> mpranjic, we will need help presenting and helping people with questions
20:39:28 <diablo_rojo> same as normal :)
20:39:31 <ildikov> mpranjic: or helping out with answering the students' questions
20:39:50 <ildikov> mpranjic: ensure they are doing and progressing with the exrcises
20:40:06 <ildikov> and figure out whatever issue we face at the time :)
20:40:14 <mpranjic> I will look into the schedule... any materials I can check which are maybe not public atm (and might be relevant)?
20:40:42 <ildikov> mpranjic: everything we have is public and on the web
20:41:10 <mpranjic> great :)
20:41:18 <mpranjic> will dig into it...
20:41:28 <ildikov> mpranjic: sounds good
20:41:40 <ildikov> just ask on the training channel if there's anything
20:42:16 <ildikov> and feel free to upload some patches if you find things to correct/update :)
20:42:17 <mpranjic> if I convince my boss that it would be great if the Company promotes the event and release one engineer for 2 days, I will gladly help :)
20:42:36 <ildikov> mpranjic: would be awesome! :)
20:42:37 <diablo_rojo> mpranjic, good luck :)
20:42:58 <mpranjic> I have no other questions atm
20:43:25 <ildikov> ok :)
20:43:33 <ildikov> anything else from anyone?
20:43:35 <marst> ildikov: Just a feedback: I've tried to use upstream institute materials for internal training few weeks ago and for non-technical people it's too complex, while for technical people it's too easy and lacks depth. Not sure what's the lesson here, though.
20:43:56 <ildikov> marst: that's a tricky one
20:43:56 <marst> I guess don't mix non-technical and technical crowds?
20:44:04 <mpranjic> hm. get technical? :)
20:44:19 <ildikov> marst: like don't go through all with non-technical people on the first go as you will fry their brains :)
20:44:25 <jungleboyj> marst:  Yeah.
20:44:54 <ildikov> marst: and technical is even more tough if you don't know the crowd that well, which is why our material looks as is
20:45:09 <sekelso> "Upstream for Managers" and "Upstream for Contributors" tracks?
20:45:21 <ildikov> marst: if we progress with the on-boarding rooms we could build a better and a bit more challenging deep dive modules
20:45:22 <jungleboyj> sekelso:  :-)
20:45:35 <sekelso> Perhaps another build profile.
20:45:43 <marst> jungleboyj: would love to hear your experience from Asia training. :)
20:45:44 <ildikov> sekelso: yeah, we will try something like that with tagging
20:46:07 <jungleboyj> marst:  Sure, I can share in later OUI meetings.
20:46:10 <ildikov> sekelso: and eventually build, if the tagged content seems to work out
20:46:19 <ildikov> jungleboyj: +1
20:46:19 <sekelso> I like it.
20:47:39 <ildikov> :)
20:48:25 <ildikov> we could also try to keep some retrospective etherpad or something like open for people who hold the trainings locally with this material and improve things based on the learnings
20:49:35 <ildikov> I will create one if I figured out where to link it :)
20:49:45 <spotz> It might een be beneficial to have maybe train the trainer sessions?
20:49:55 <diablo_rojo> spotz, +1
20:50:02 <ildikov> and I will also update the web page once we agreed on details with the event organizers about the upcoming occasions
20:50:16 <diablo_rojo> Formalize the best practices into a call where we actually train people
20:50:33 <ildikov> spotz: yeah, we should have something like that
20:50:51 <ildikov> spotz: I will see whether we can get someone professional to teach us a few best practices
20:51:16 <ildikov> spotz: I don't promise anything at this point, but will give it a try
20:51:21 <spotz> Or maybe even something like a 'trainers' list like the speakers list
20:51:34 <marst> ildikov: +1 and thank you! :)
20:51:44 <ildikov> spotz: in the meantime we can organize ourselves
20:51:46 <jungleboyj> spotz:  ++
20:52:07 <ildikov> spotz: for the events you mean?
20:52:34 <spotz> ildikov: So say someone would like to do something either at an even or a meetup, they could look and see if there's anyone local
20:52:44 <spotz> I can't type....
20:52:54 <jungleboyj> spotz:  Typing is hard.
20:53:02 <jungleboyj> ;-)
20:53:10 <spotz> I know my 7 is messed up, had to hit that 3 times
20:53:21 <ildikov> spotz: we have the wiki with names and some info like time zone
20:53:36 <ildikov> spotz: we can link that into the web page if it's not linked there already
20:53:41 <spotz> One day I'll have time to go to the apple store:(
20:53:57 <spotz> I always think of that as the who's going to summit and can help list:)
20:54:11 <jungleboyj> spotz:  I think we already have that.
20:54:42 <ildikov> jungleboyj: yeah, I even created a subpage for events to have a clear view on who's attending what
20:54:56 <ildikov> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Upstream_Institute
20:55:01 <ildikov> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Upstream_Institute
20:55:25 <ildikov> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Upstream_Institute_Occasions
20:55:35 <spotz> Ahh see I didn't even know it was updated for OPNFV:)
20:55:38 <ildikov> need to revisit the list of names though
20:56:01 <ildikov> I mean on the main page as I'm not sure we still have everyone involved from there
20:56:19 <mpranjic> oh, that is the thing.. I can't login in there with my ubuntuone acc
20:56:22 <ildikov> keeping these things up to date is always tough
20:56:25 <mpranjic> whom do I bug for that?
20:57:01 <ildikov> mpranjic: fungi might be able to help you with that
20:57:31 <diablo_rojo> Yeah he should be able to help you.
20:57:45 <ildikov> mpranjic: you can ping him on #openstack-infra
20:58:10 <ildikov> we have 2 minutes remaining here
20:58:22 <ildikov> any other topics to chat about?
20:58:48 <mpranjic> thnx :)
20:58:57 <jungleboyj> Nope.
20:59:02 <mpranjic> I am cool
20:59:06 <ildikov> coolio
20:59:16 <ildikov> thanks everyone! :)
20:59:20 <diablo_rojo> Thanks ildikov :)
20:59:21 <jungleboyj> Thanks!
20:59:25 <jungleboyj> @!
20:59:25 <_pewp_> jungleboyj (^▽^)/ ʸᵉᔆᵎ
20:59:25 <marst> Thanks! :)
20:59:26 <mpranjic> thnx all :)
20:59:32 <sekelso> Bye
20:59:40 <ildikov> #endmeeting