20:00:24 <ildikov> #startmeeting openstack_upstream_institute
20:00:25 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Apr  3 20:00:24 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:26 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:29 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_upstream_institute'
20:00:33 <mlavalle> o/
20:00:36 <blancos> o/
20:00:44 <kmARC> o/
20:00:46 <mrmartin> o/
20:00:55 <diablo_rojo> Hello :)
20:00:59 <ildikov> hi all :)
20:01:16 <ildikov> agenda for today: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-upstream-institute-meetings
20:02:16 <HoloIRCUser> Hi
20:02:54 <ildikov> as for the TODO's I started to update the web page with the latest information
20:03:04 <skelso> Trying again w/correct nick
20:03:07 <ildikov> I need to look nito the Intro slides to get that up to date as well
20:03:45 <ildikov> jungleboyj is on vacation today, so we can take the releases section to the next week's meeting
20:04:11 <ildikov> last time we started to go through the sections and discuss what to clean up and improve on them
20:04:35 <diablo_rojo> I have updated the Communication, Overview of Contribution Processes and Events sections and the changes have been merged.
20:05:35 <ildikov> reviews can be found here: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/training-guides
20:06:03 <ildikov> currently we don't have open reviews, so I would like to encourage everyone to create some :)
20:06:10 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, +1
20:06:33 <ildikov> I think we can start with the wiki agenda topic and then go back to reviews the material
20:06:45 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: does it sound good?
20:07:02 <diablo_rojo> Works for me
20:07:31 <diablo_rojo> The first topic I had was just updates on last weeks TODO's
20:07:32 <ildikov> #topic Wiki page updates
20:07:48 <ildikov> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Upstream_Institute
20:08:00 <ildikov> as a reminder we have a team wiki page
20:08:13 <ildikov> please check whether you're listed among the team members
20:08:39 <ildikov> also please check whether the information there is all filled and up to date
20:09:03 <ildikov> if you know already that you're available for the Boston training please highlight that there as well
20:09:09 <diablo_rojo> It would be especially helpful if people could fill in if they are attending the training in Boston
20:09:51 <ildikov> if you cannot join for both days that's still ok, please provide the info when you'll be available so we can figure out the setup and plans
20:10:34 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: is there anything I missed?
20:11:24 <spotz> hey all
20:11:42 <ildikov> spotz: hi :)
20:11:47 <ildikov> spotz: thanks for joining
20:12:08 <spotz> Sorry I'm late
20:12:13 <ildikov> ok, we can move on from the wiki if no one has related questions
20:12:27 <ildikov> spotz: no worries, we're on the administrative side still :)
20:13:02 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, nope thats it
20:13:14 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: cool, thanks!
20:13:16 <ildikov> as I saw kmARC around, if it works for him it would be good to quickly touch on the VM image :)
20:13:35 <kmARC> yepp, let's do that! :-)
20:13:51 <ildikov> #topic VM image update for the training
20:14:11 <ildikov> kmARC: can you give us a brief update on what needs to be done?
20:14:36 <kmARC> I'm trying to upgrade it to Ubuntu 16.04 and Ocata
20:14:53 <kmARC> ran into some problems, but hopefully will tackle them
20:14:54 <ildikov> kmARC: also if there's anything you need more hands on, please highlight those too
20:15:03 <kmARC> sure
20:15:21 <ildikov> kmARC: is there anything from those problems we should discuss here?
20:15:25 * mlavalle updated wiki
20:15:27 <kmARC> question to all of you: anyone misses anything from the VM that would be desirable to be installed / set up?
20:15:44 <kmARC> @ildikov not for the time being
20:16:13 <ildikov> mlavalle: tnx
20:16:57 <ildikov> kmARC: as we have new people on board, can you give a quick list on what we have there already?
20:17:43 <kmARC> Sure. bit.ly/training-vm , check it out! ;-)
20:17:58 <kmARC> basically this VM is a downloadable asset, published a day or two before the upstream training
20:18:01 <ildikov> kmARC: :)
20:18:20 <kmARC> it has all the tools installed with which one can start development on openstack projects
20:18:48 <kmARC> it utilizes devstack, with networking set up properly, some text editors and a Windows95-like UI (XFCE)
20:18:53 <spotz> kmARC: So it has git and gerrit already installed?
20:18:58 <kmARC> yes
20:19:06 <spotz> cool
20:19:19 <kmARC> Also set's up some convenience bookmarks, etc.
20:19:23 <kmARC> sets*
20:19:29 <spotz> nice
20:20:17 <kmARC> it's built automatically through Vagrant, so one can assemble their own, however we also release (automatically built of course ;-) ) one version before the training in ova format, so the students just need to import into their virtualbox
20:20:30 <kmARC> That is it in a nutshell
20:20:42 <sekelso> Sorry, rejoining after a bit...do we pub pre-reqs for the VM before the meeting?
20:20:51 <kmARC> yes
20:20:53 <kmARC> it's on the link
20:20:57 <kmARC> check it out ;-)
20:20:59 <sekelso> Cool.
20:21:06 <diablo_rojo> sekelso, I think it is also in our docs for the upstream training
20:21:17 <kmARC> basically the README.md on github tells everything
20:22:07 <ildikov> kmARC: do we already have a version up on tarballs.o.o?
20:22:27 <kmARC> Unfortunately not.
20:22:47 <mrmartin> I can help with that if we are talking infra / jenkins integration here.
20:22:51 <ildikov> kmARC: do you need any help with that?
20:23:27 <ildikov> mrmartin: we started to discussed this with them already
20:23:28 <sekelso> Ah, I'm thinking more like on the session page in the Summit agenda. A "go read this before you show up" kind of thing.
20:24:00 <kmARC> @ildikov yes, we definitely should get some help with that
20:24:04 <diablo_rojo> sekelso, last time we sent out something to people that were registered with that info in it
20:24:12 <sekelso> K, got it. Thanks.
20:24:13 <ildikov> sekelso: we send out reminder mails to people who registered and add info there
20:24:19 <diablo_rojo> sekelso, No problem :)
20:24:49 <ildikov> sekelso: although it might make people more interested if they have some more pointers in the description on the schedule :)
20:25:26 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: sorry, I've just seen you type way faster than me :)
20:25:27 <skelso> Agreed...
20:25:52 <ildikov> kmARC: I guess there's no point in uploading the old image
20:26:04 <kmARC> No
20:26:30 <ildikov> kmARC: so I think when we have something that works close to the training we can publish that
20:26:34 <kmARC> We should find an automated way to deploy it, after all it's just a shell script, however last time we run into some problems - which I cannot recall right now
20:26:42 <kmARC> exactly
20:26:43 <ildikov> kmARC: and then update in case we had to fix smth on it
20:27:14 <ildikov> kmARC: yes, I just meant that we agreed with the infra guys last time that the first version goes up manually
20:27:20 <ildikov> kmARC: and then we automate
20:27:52 <ildikov> kmARC: if we look into automation after the training I think that should be fine too, not the highest priority right now
20:28:07 <kmARC> okay, then let's do this
20:28:14 <ildikov> kmARC: although if you can recall what the issues were we can ping people with that to get progres sin parallel
20:28:32 <kmARC> sure, it should be somewhere in my IRC Logs :-)
20:28:56 <ildikov> kmARC: we also talked about moving the source/scripts to the training-guides repo
20:29:00 <ildikov> kmARC: :)
20:29:10 <ildikov> kmARC: are you planning to do that?
20:29:33 <kmARC> I can look into that too
20:29:59 <ildikov> kmARC: cool, tnx
20:30:34 <ildikov> kmARC: if there's anything to bring up, we have an IRC channel now: #openstack-upstream-institute
20:30:39 <diablo_rojo> kmARC, you have a lot of todo's :)
20:30:55 <ildikov> kmARC: and we're using the os-upstream-institute tag on the mailing list
20:31:09 <kmARC> (I love the new name Upstream Institute a LOT. sounds like a fancy R&D lab or something :-D )
20:31:18 <ildikov> kmARC: no need to wait until the next meeting if you need help with anything
20:31:33 <ildikov> kmARC: lol :)
20:32:16 <ildikov> kmARC: do you have anything else in mind we should talk about in connection to the VM image?
20:33:09 <kmARC> Right now nothing. If anyone has any suggestions or so, just ping me, I am a nice person, will answer ;-)
20:34:01 <ildikov> kmARC: coo, tnx :)
20:34:08 <ildikov> *cool
20:35:46 <ildikov> I would like to encourage everyone to look into what we have and give feedback and suggestions if you have anything in mind that would be needed/useful!
20:35:54 <ildikov> let's move on :)
20:36:15 <ildikov> #topic Updating the material
20:37:11 <ildikov> I think last time we stopped at the Governance section
20:37:40 <ildikov> I think we were all in an agreement that it could use some thoughts and updates to make it better
20:38:02 <ildikov> especially with the mindset of an interactive training, where we would like to get the people involved
20:38:48 <ildikov> as a quick reminder the training room is planned to have round tables in it and we will try to group people by area of interest
20:38:52 <diablo_rojo> We agreed that it was important to cover, but I think that was about it
20:39:10 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
20:39:37 <ildikov> IIRC we came up with ideas like trying to get the groups at the tables to have a team structure
20:39:43 <ildikov> like cores and a PTL
20:40:27 <diablo_rojo> Yeah that sounds right
20:40:35 <ildikov> if we can come up with exercises that leverages this setup we could bring back a few parts of the earlier Lego slot, that we removed from the training before Barcelona
20:40:48 <ildikov> what do you all think about this?
20:40:58 <skelso> In a role-playing sort of way? Or do we expect there will be a more experienced person at each table?
20:41:14 <kmARC> in this case even I agree with the moderated version of the Lego excercises
20:41:24 <ildikov> skelso: role playing way
20:41:27 <mrmartin> +1 to Lego
20:42:01 <ildikov> kmARC: mrmartin: to clarify, we will not have Lego in Boston
20:43:29 <ildikov> kmARC: mrmartin: the idea is to bring back some of the ideas from it that brings people closer to get an idea how the community operates
20:43:47 <mrmartin> ok
20:44:23 <ildikov> mrmartin: does 'ok' equals to 'that sound good'? :)
20:44:37 <kmARC> well I think it were the _ideas_ that weren't relevant but at least the plastic lego pieces were fun ;-)
20:44:37 <mrmartin> exactly.
20:45:23 <kmARC> what I am saying, let's don't start talking about SCCRUM and other corporate BS which isn't applicable at all to how the OpenStack community operates
20:45:27 <ildikov> kmARC: tnx, always good to have kids around :)
20:45:32 <mrmartin> do you have any specific ideas for those role playing games?
20:45:58 <ildikov> kmARC: exactly, that's why we came up with idea to form project teams from the groups we have in the room for instance
20:46:30 <kmARC> (I like the roundtable idea btw.)
20:46:46 <ildikov> kmARC: so people can understand some bits of the governance structure, but no Agile or Scrum
20:47:19 <kmARC> makes sense, thanks for the clarification
20:47:49 <ildikov> mrmartin: long term it would be great with come up with a bigger task that requires people in the groups to interact with each other and also interaction within groups
20:48:02 <diablo_rojo> something more for the second day
20:48:06 <ildikov> mrmartin: but we don't have a concrete theme at this point
20:48:17 <diablo_rojo> mrmartin, got any ideas? ;)
20:48:21 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
20:48:48 <skelso> From my POV, the challenge is if you put a bunch of corp. folks (and that's who seemed to dominate the Barceolona class, me included), they'll get confused without a "this is different" bit of preaching somewhere in the beginning.
20:48:54 <mrmartin> I can ask my coach friends to suggest something useful.
20:48:55 <ildikov> first day is more introduction to what we have as for processes/tools still, but we're trying to bring as much exercises/interaction into the whole thing as possible
20:48:56 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  I didn't get to make any progress on my work items the last week.  Had other things to tackle prepping for vacation.
20:49:09 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Hoping to tackle things when back next week.
20:49:14 <skelso> B/c we'll all want to elect a project manager to tell us what to do :)
20:49:23 <ildikov> skelso: do you mean compared to Agile?
20:49:36 <ildikov> jungleboyj: no worries
20:49:48 <skelso> Yeah...that being one of the dominant contexts folks come to the class from.
20:49:51 <diablo_rojo> A pm is basically a scrum master
20:50:12 <ildikov> jungleboyj: you can also upload a patch for review when you get there and we can discuss it on the meeting, etc.
20:50:42 <diablo_rojo> skelso, thats why the governance section is important, we want to make it clear that it is not the same as in your companies
20:50:45 <ildikov> skelso: we have a short Agile block as part of the intro section
20:51:33 <skelso> True, this is why I'm thinking about it. Governance is great context, but it's a floor or two above the team level.
20:51:33 <ildikov> skelso: and we have an exercise in connection to that for the groups to dicuss what can be different in open source and why, etc.
20:51:54 <skelso> Now that sounds helpful
20:52:14 <ildikov> skelso: so we open it up for discussion and summarize the outcome of the group chats at the beggining
20:52:42 <ildikov> skelso: I think we can kind of complement this with the governance section to get to the big picture
20:52:59 <skelso> Okay, cool. We need to equip folks to tell their managers both how the community works, and also why it works that way.
20:53:20 <jungleboyj> skelso We talked about this last week as well.  Important to give people the context of how decisions are made for the community..
20:53:41 <skelso> K, understood.
20:53:44 <diablo_rojo> Those sections of the slides were there in Barcelona, maybe we need to stress it a bit more.
20:54:25 <jungleboyj> I will need to look at those.  Don't remember what all was there.
20:54:55 <diablo_rojo> https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/intro-openstack-as-community.html#6
20:55:10 <ildikov> jungleboyj: the Agile part is one slide and one more for the exercise :)
20:55:15 <diablo_rojo> The last two slides in that deck are what ildikov and I are talking about
20:55:44 <skelso> Reading...
20:55:47 <ildikov> as for governance we need to find the right amount of information to share so we don't overload people with information
20:56:03 <ildikov> also we have 5 minutes left from the today's meeting
20:57:13 <ildikov> is there anyone of you who can look into the Governance section and come up with ideas on how to improve it?
20:57:25 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, I can take a look
20:57:35 <skelso> Yes, I'll take a look also
20:58:04 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: skelso: cool, thanks!
20:58:18 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Ok, I remember those slides now.
20:58:32 <jungleboyj> I think those questions are still good to work with.
20:58:55 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: skelso: if you can also give some thoughts to the role playing game and whether or not we could simulate the elections for instance that would be great
20:59:18 <skelso> Yes, certainly.
20:59:30 <ildikov> jungleboyj: +1
20:59:40 <ildikov> ok, we need to wrap up
21:00:00 <jungleboyj> ildikov: I thought we weren't gong to do the role playing due to time.
21:00:12 <ildikov> next week we will look into the tools part and the deep dives to get progress on that too
21:00:19 <mrmartin> bye
21:00:30 <jungleboyj> Ok.  Sounds good.
21:00:32 <diablo_rojo> If everyone could just take a look at all the slides for next week that would be super helpful. That way we can spend less time talking about what is there and more time about how to make them better :)
21:00:40 <ildikov> thanks everyone, talk to you on the channel or next week the latest
21:00:41 <spotz> :)
21:00:44 <kmARC> diablo_rojo: +1
21:00:44 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
21:00:55 <ildikov> have a good week!
21:00:56 <jungleboyj> Ok, will do.
21:00:58 <spotz> just grab me in channel if you guys need me for anything in the meantime
21:01:02 <kmARC> bye
21:01:05 <ildikov> #endmeeting