08:00:31 <Daisy> #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting
08:00:32 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Apr 16 08:00:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
08:00:34 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
08:00:36 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'
08:00:51 <Fdot_> hello all :)
08:00:56 <Daisy> Hello
08:00:59 * AJaeger waves
08:00:59 <ujuc_> Hello
08:01:03 <epico> Hello
08:01:10 <loquacities> hi!
08:01:15 <Daisy> Hi, loquacities
08:01:19 <Daisy> OK. Let's start.
08:01:24 <loquacities> hi Daisy :)
08:01:32 <Daisy> #topic rst document translation discussion with doc team
08:01:48 <Daisy> Welcome AJaeger and loquacities from doc team.
08:01:54 * loquacities waves
08:02:02 <Daisy> And welcome ujuc_ from Korean team and Fdot_ from French team.
08:02:13 <Daisy> I'm representative of Chinese translation team.
08:02:32 <Daisy> epico is from Chinese too.
08:03:01 * AJaeger does the odd bit of German translation (10 strings this release only ;)
08:03:23 <Daisy> ujuc_ and Fdot_ : do you need a background introduction of switching to rst document ?
08:03:47 <Daisy> Yes, AJaeger is from German team.
08:04:02 <Fdot_> Daisy: that's ok :)
08:04:17 <ujuc_> that's ok too.
08:04:30 <Daisy> So you understand what we are talking about.
08:04:38 <Fdot_> I have talked about it with gpocentek :)
08:04:53 <Fdot_> from doc team
08:04:53 <Daisy> There have been several mails going back and through in our mailing list.
08:04:53 <AJaeger> Fdot_, yeah, gpocentek is an RST expert ;)
08:05:27 <Daisy> So fristly, AJaeger , I would like to make sure the current doc toolchain could support our future improvement.
08:05:44 <Daisy> Let's use a simple example.
08:06:19 <Daisy> If I want to change :: at the end of an sentence to :, and change back, with auto tool, which files I could change ?
08:06:54 <Daisy> I mean, before uploading, I change :: to :, and after downloading, I change : to ::
08:07:00 <Daisy> It's the simplest case.
08:07:01 <AJaeger> We have tools/generatepot-rst.sh that creates the po files
08:07:16 <AJaeger> And we can add transformations there any time
08:07:30 <Daisy> can you share the link ?
08:07:37 <AJaeger> second...
08:07:59 <AJaeger> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/tools/generatepot-rst.sh
08:08:41 <AJaeger> and for downloading, can do this either as part of the building process - see https://review.openstack.org/162424
08:09:15 <AJaeger> or as part of the infra scripts http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/jenkins/scripts/propose_translation_update_manuals.sh
08:10:04 <AJaeger> But we have to be clever here, not every ":" should be converted to "::" etc.
08:10:21 <loquacities> ^^ that's what i was thinking
08:10:29 <AJaeger> So, the logic there needs to search for the original string and see whether we have "original::" and only then do the transformation
08:10:32 <Daisy> Oh ? I didn't notice the exceptions while I was investigating the user guides.
08:10:53 <Daisy> Only :: at the end of every string
08:11:01 <Daisy> should be changed.
08:11:04 <Daisy> Is that correct ?
08:11:16 <Daisy> All :: at the end of the source strings
08:12:07 <AJaeger> If you want to change those, you would change existing "::" in the source before uploading to ":" and then convert those translated strings that originally had a "::" back.
08:12:55 <Daisy> AJaeger: I don't quite understand why use :: ?
08:13:18 <AJaeger> Daisy, I don't understand your question
08:13:48 <Daisy> Sorry
08:13:56 <Daisy> The old source string in DocBook is:
08:14:08 <Daisy> "To perform a hard reboot, pass the <parameter>--hard</parameter> parameter, as follows:"
08:14:17 <Daisy> The new source strings in RST is:
08:14:26 <Daisy> "To perform a hard reboot, pass the ``--hard`` parameter, as follows::"
08:14:32 <Daisy> Why this kind of changes happen ?
08:14:40 <ujuc_> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/doc/user-guides/source/locale/user-guides.pot#n5497
08:15:06 <AJaeger> Daisy, the "::" is RST markup to have the text that *follows* written as code.
08:15:07 <ujuc_> this?
08:15:23 <AJaeger> So, if the next line is for example a config file, we use "::"
08:15:34 <AJaeger> IF the next time is some descriptive text, it would be a single ":"
08:16:14 <Daisy> oh. Then it's easy to convert :: to :, but it's hard to convert back.
08:16:50 <Daisy> I understand. Thank you, AJaeger
08:17:03 <AJaeger> Daisy, you need to check first the original string, should be a simple lookup.
08:17:13 <Daisy> ok. Yes.
08:17:20 <Daisy> Thank you.
08:18:29 <Daisy> So based on AJaeger 's answers, I think, we could make the improvement if we want to in the future, by updating some scripts. But the logic is not easy, because when converting back, the original string need to be tested.
08:19:12 <Daisy> Let's move to next.
08:19:28 <ujuc_> ok
08:19:31 <Daisy> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18nTeam/rst-markups
08:20:00 <Daisy> This page lists some markups in RST.
08:20:03 <Daisy> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2015-April/006348.html
08:20:32 <Daisy> This email contains more markups Olga Gusarenko added.
08:20:46 <Daisy> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/doc/user-guides/source/locale/user-guides.pot
08:20:55 <Daisy> This is the new pot file.
08:21:28 <Daisy> ujuc_ and Fdot_ : please take a look at these markups and the new pot file, and let us know if you have any concerns.
08:21:45 <Fdot_> daisy ok :)
08:21:51 <ujuc_> ok
08:22:17 <Daisy> AJaeger: :guilabel:`tab`
08:22:26 <AJaeger> I imported the existing translations for End User Guide and Admin User Guide into the user-guides resource and also did some transformations, so we had 38 % of Japanese translated directly
08:22:28 <Daisy> In this case, shall we translate tab ?
08:23:13 <Daisy> shall we translate *tab* into the local language as to :guilabel:`tab` ?
08:23:49 <AJaeger> "tab" might be the label in Horizon, so it needs to be translated.
08:24:09 <AJaeger> That was the case before already, just it was <guilabel>tab</guilabel> or somethign similar
08:24:37 <Daisy> ok.
08:25:19 <Daisy> Then how about this one: :term:`glossterm_name` ?
08:25:43 <Daisy> do we need to translate *glossterm_name* ?
08:26:15 <AJaeger> That'S a reference to the glossary
08:26:29 <AJaeger> It needs to match the glossary entry - like it did before
08:27:01 <AJaeger> So, if you translate "Compute" as key in the glossary to "Berechnen", then you need to translate the term here as well - like previously
08:27:02 <Daisy> Now we don't have glossary translated yet.
08:27:35 <Daisy> if the glossary is translated in the future, *glossterm_name* should be translated here.
08:27:53 <AJaeger> Example: the Japanese team has 89 % of glossary translated
08:28:04 <AJaeger> Daisy, correct.
08:28:09 <Daisy> ok
08:28:42 <Daisy> I think :menuselection:`Start > Programs` should be translated, but I want to check with you, AJaeger .
08:29:00 <AJaeger> Daisy, whenever you come about these questions in the future, feel free to ask on openstack-docs mailing list
08:29:24 <loquacities> +1
08:29:25 <AJaeger> Indeed, Daisy, those need to be translated the same way as it is in the GUI like horizon
08:29:43 <Daisy> Ok. I want to summarize them together, so the new comers won't bother you those questions.
08:30:16 <AJaeger> Daisy, sure! Document what you learn and ask again for feedback, we happily review.
08:30:46 <Daisy> In DocBook, XML tags are clearly marked. Translators don't need to bother which should translate, which should not. RST is different way.
08:30:58 <AJaeger> I agree it's important to know where translations need to match - like the glossary or the UI.
08:31:36 <AJaeger> Yes, DocBook XML tags can be easily identified. But don't you translate glossterm already?
08:32:12 <Daisy> Not all languages translate glossary.
08:32:43 <AJaeger> ok - but those that do have to keep this in mind already today
08:33:18 <Daisy> Yes, agree. I will document these down in that wiki page.
08:34:04 <AJaeger> Thanks, Daisy!
08:34:15 <Daisy> ujuc_ and Fdot_ : any questions from you ?
08:34:30 <AJaeger> Now I see why a special translators RST cheat sheet is needed
08:34:42 <loquacities> yes, it's trickier than i realised!
08:34:49 <Fdot_> Daisy: not for me
08:35:36 <ujuc_> no ~
08:36:08 <Daisy> AJaeger: while translating, translators need to understand the meaning. This will help them translate. That's why I ask a lot of silly questions to you.
08:36:43 <AJaeger> Daisy, those are no silly questions.
08:37:04 <loquacities> Daisy: i am in australia, and will make sure i am in #openstack-translation for you, so you can ask questions
08:37:07 <AJaeger> The implications of different markup for translation was not that clear to me before, so your questions helped me to learn as well
08:37:12 <Daisy> Fdot_ and ujuc_ : you are OK to the rst document conversion now ?
08:37:44 <Daisy> Thank you, loquacities
08:37:52 <loquacities> no problem
08:37:54 <Fdot_> Daisy: ok for me
08:38:06 <Daisy> Thank you, Fdot_
08:38:15 <ujuc_> ko
08:38:23 <Daisy> Thank you, ujuc_
08:38:51 <Daisy> I'm fine too. I will continue to improve the translators cheat sheet.
08:39:07 <AJaeger> Great!
08:39:12 <loquacities> that's great, Daisy :)
08:39:26 <Daisy> If you meet with new mark ups, AJaeger, please add to the cheat sheet.
08:39:43 <Daisy> Same to you, loquacities, Fdot and ujuc_ .
08:39:57 <loquacities> will do :)
08:39:58 <AJaeger> Daisy, will keep an eye out
08:39:59 <Daisy> It will help the new comers easily to understand the situation.
08:40:08 <Daisy> Ok. great !
08:40:23 <Daisy> any more questions? comments ?
08:40:41 <loquacities> i think i understand the issues better now, so thank you :)
08:40:48 <AJaeger> So, do I - thanks!
08:41:06 <Daisy> Thank you, AJaeger and loquacities to come.
08:41:11 <loquacities> most welcome
08:41:24 <Daisy> We will move to next topic.
08:41:27 <AJaeger> Daisy, feel free to invite us again any time you have doc questions.
08:41:27 <Daisy> #topic Final push on Horizon translation
08:41:35 <Daisy> sure, AJaeger . I will.
08:41:59 <Daisy> I will catch you in IRC. I will bother you too, loquacities, if i cannot find AJaeger .
08:42:20 <loquacities> no problem at all :)
08:42:23 <AJaeger> You're welcome!
08:42:28 <Daisy> amotoki sent email to our mailing list.
08:42:29 <loquacities> i am probably in a better time zone for you, too ;)
08:42:45 <Daisy> Horzion is string freeze now.
08:42:58 <Daisy> The date to push Horizon translation is April 23.
08:43:11 <Daisy> So we have to finish them by April 22.
08:43:19 <Daisy> I see most languages have good progress.
08:43:31 <Daisy> Just two languages might have trouble.
08:43:59 <Daisy> Spanish and Polish
08:44:16 <Daisy> I will broadcast the email to a more broad mailing list and get more people's help.
08:44:37 <Daisy> That's all for this topic.
08:44:47 <Daisy> #topic Open discussions
08:45:09 <Daisy> Any topics to talk ?
08:45:40 <ujuc_> i not
08:45:48 <Daisy> Thank you, ujuc_
08:45:57 <Daisy> if no, I will close the meeting.
08:46:25 <Daisy> ok. Let's close it.
08:46:30 <Daisy> Thank you all for attending.
08:46:32 <loquacities> thanks Daisy :)
08:46:39 <Daisy> thank you, loquacities
08:46:55 <Daisy> #endmeeting