13:03:34 <Daisy> #startmeeting OpenStack I18n
13:03:35 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Aug 20 13:03:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:03:36 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:03:38 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n'
13:03:49 <Daisy> Hi, sorry I was a few minutes late.
13:03:55 <Daisy> Who is there for I18n meeting ?
13:04:01 <FdotFr> \o_ :)
13:04:01 <ianychoi> Hello :)
13:04:14 <Daisy> Hi, nice to see you FdotFr and ianychoi
13:04:14 <doug-fish> Hi - I am!
13:04:18 <Daisy> Hi, Doug
13:04:39 <Daisy> Great. Let's start while people will join in.
13:04:53 <Daisy> I have several things to discuss tonight.
13:05:10 <Daisy> #topic Toyko summit sessions
13:05:32 <Daisy> It's time to plan I18n sessions in Toyko summit.
13:05:41 <Daisy> I have the right to book meeting rooms for the team.
13:06:17 <Daisy> Please think about which topics do we want to go through or interlock with other people .
13:06:28 <Daisy> Of course, I will book sessions for translators only.
13:07:00 <ianychoi> okay :)
13:07:31 <Daisy> There are only 3 days in Tokyo summit , Tuesday, wed and Thursday.
13:08:04 <Daisy> I booked Thursday morning, from 9:00-11:00 for translatiors' workshop only.
13:08:20 <Daisy> I also booked two time slots on Tuesday.
13:08:22 <doug-fish> isn't it Friday too?
13:08:26 <doug-fish> for the developers?
13:08:42 <Daisy> Maybe yes, doug-fish.
13:09:19 <Daisy> From the speadsheet I'm reading, it's only 3 days. Maybe Friday is for developers, but not included in this table.
13:09:59 <Daisy> I also booked two time slots on Tuesday, just after the keynote. We could discuss I18n related things with other teams and people.
13:10:00 <doug-fish> I think its 3 days for the expo but the developers have Friday also
13:10:12 <Daisy> If you have any proposals, please let me know.
13:10:37 <jftalta> hi all
13:10:48 <jftalta> Sorry to be late
13:10:51 <Daisy> I will write an email to ML about that.
13:10:53 <Daisy> Hi, jftalta
13:10:59 <Daisy> NO worries.
13:11:26 <Daisy> We were talking about I18n sessions in Tokyo summit just now. I will write to our ML about this.
13:11:46 <ianychoi> How about Zanata tutorial or discussion session? I am suggesting it because Zanata is new..
13:12:03 <Daisy> ianychoi: do you need Zanata tutorial ?
13:12:40 <ianychoi> Not so far. I have not been using Zanata too much.
13:12:47 <Daisy> ianychoi: I think we need a interlock session with infrastructure team to discuss the improvement of our translation tools and platform.
13:12:48 <doug-fish> Daisy: is there a Zanata tutorial available?
13:13:06 <Daisy> I think there was a Zanata demo before.
13:13:17 <ianychoi> Okay, I got it.
13:13:30 <Daisy> ianychoi: I will check if I could still find the demo link and I will share with you.
13:13:34 <jftalta> Interlock session ??
13:13:40 <ianychoi> Thanks, Daisy :)
13:14:02 <Daisy> jftalta: interlock session means discussion... jftalta, I don't know if I used the wrong word.
13:14:15 <doug-fish> I know many of the other project hold "operator feedback" sessions where they hear from people using their code how it is working ... perhaps a related session could be held for i18n to get feedback from distros or other groups using the translations?
13:14:57 <Daisy> doug-fish: It's a good idea. Do you think how many people might attend such session ?
13:15:35 <doug-fish> not sure - i18n has only recently gotten more visibility so maybe people are thinking about it much yet
13:15:56 <Daisy> I like your words, doug-fish. :)
13:16:23 <doug-fish> It would be nice to find out if the distros are using translations, if any are causing trouble, do they change any of the translations outside of the community, etc
13:16:52 <Daisy> Maybe a specific session for translation tool/platform and a general session for all i18n things. And a morning workshop booked for only translators.
13:17:44 <Daisy> doug-fish: good idea.
13:18:23 <Daisy> doug-fish: let's talk more details about it off line.
13:18:24 <doug-fish> just one last thought on what I was suggesting - if you call it a "feedback session" people may see it as a vehicle to come in and complain - that's a good thing because you'll get feedback from people who care
13:18:33 <doug-fish> okay.  I'll settle down.  :-)
13:18:45 <Daisy> doug-fish: it's all right. Thank you for the inputs.
13:19:00 <Daisy> I will have to move to next topic.
13:19:09 <Daisy> #topic Moving to Zanata
13:19:24 <Daisy> Liberty is nearly the end.
13:19:44 <Daisy> According to the release schedule, the feature freeze is Sep. 1-3, and the final release date is Oct. 15.
13:20:15 <Daisy> So, teams, we will start our busy translation after Sep when feature is freezed.
13:20:33 <Daisy> There is no exactly string freeze date for Liberty, according to the release schedule.
13:20:39 <ujuc> hi... late.;
13:20:52 <ianychoi> hi
13:20:56 <Daisy> But since we only work with Horizon, I will check Horizon team closely to see when they will "string freeze"
13:21:42 <ianychoi> Okay
13:21:43 <adiantum> hi, we'll start translation of Horizon after freeze
13:21:48 <Daisy> According to my experience, it might be the late half of Sep.
13:22:11 <doug-fish> Daisy: slightly related - are you aware of Horizon's push to have more UI developed as plugins instead of directly in Horion?
13:22:24 <Daisy> I don't know, doug-fish
13:22:45 <Daisy> Do you mean, a lot of new strings, or a lot of un-translatable strings appear ?
13:23:10 <doug-fish> Horizon has encourage some other teams like Manilla, Designate, and Magnum (off the top of my head) to implement their new UIs as plugins to Horizon, with code is a separate repository
13:23:22 <Daisy> OK. Got your idea.
13:23:35 <Daisy> That's a new situation.
13:23:38 <doug-fish> which means (I assume) they will be additional Horizon-related projects that might need translation
13:23:40 <doug-fish> yes
13:23:52 <doug-fish> I don't know if any of them are really ready for translation
13:24:03 <Daisy> Agree , doug-fish.
13:24:47 <doug-fish> How should those projects make you aware when they feel their code is ready for translation?
13:25:22 <jftalta> Does this mean a more heavy workload for the translation teams ?
13:25:44 <Daisy> Redhat dev team connected with me last week, they want to translate Tuskar UI, which has not set up localized mechanis yet.
13:25:46 <doug-fish> only to the extent that Horizon is bigger - but it does allow the workload to be more modulr
13:26:20 <jftalta> Ok, I understand.
13:26:41 <doug-fish> Daisy: you should have them use Horizon's pseudo tool to make sure their strings can be translated
13:26:44 <Daisy> I will check with Horizon team to understand the situations, and will update with team when I got it.
13:27:27 <jftalta> Ok Daisy.
13:27:59 <Daisy> Horizon's pseudo tool is to check whether there are strings not marked as "translatable string", right ?
13:28:43 <doug-fish> yep - it does this by creating fake translations for some language - if fake translations are shown then the code should be ready to handle real translations
13:29:11 <Daisy> It's a good test tool. I will let them know after I set up the connection with them.
13:29:35 <doug-fish> http://docs.openstack.org/developer/horizon/contributing.html#running-the-pseudo-translation-tool
13:29:45 <Daisy> ok. Thanks, doug-fish
13:29:49 <doug-fish> yw
13:30:21 <Daisy> About Liberty translation, it's highly possible that we will use Zanata
13:31:01 <Daisy> so team, help me to encourage your team to sign the CLA, register ID in Zanata, and get familiar with Zanata,
13:31:25 <Daisy> Any suggestions about how to let our world wide translators know that we are going to Zanata ?
13:31:45 <adiantum> i have one
13:32:00 <Daisy> adiantum: 1 for what ?
13:32:14 <adiantum> for statistics we need to name iterations like releases
13:32:36 <Daisy> adiantum: could we get releases from Zanata API ?
13:32:59 <FdotFr> Daisy we should block subscriptions on transifex first and block all the projects in it ;)
13:33:11 <jftalta> Sorry but I have to leave you, unfortunately.
13:33:13 <adiantum> actually we can get it in iteration names
13:33:36 <Daisy> FdotFr: I don't k now if there are still communication ways to send messages to all organiztion translators in Transfiex.
13:33:57 <jftalta> Daisy, just a question before I leave : have you got some news about ATC Tokyo code ?...
13:34:36 <Daisy> jftalta: the namling list is sent to TC. They are voting. When it is passed, I will send the name list to support team.
13:34:41 <FdotFr> Daisy I don't know but you should to be able to disallow the access to the project on transifex
13:34:41 <Daisy> Then we will get the ATC codes.
13:35:21 <jftalta> Daisy : ok, thanks.
13:35:49 <Daisy> FdotFr: I remembered I could broadcast message before, but now I cannot find the user interface.
13:36:15 <FdotFr> Daisy lol :D The interface in transifex is changing all the time !
13:36:27 <jftalta> Bye everybody. See you soon.
13:36:28 <Daisy> FdotFr: agree.
13:36:31 <Daisy> jftalta: bye.
13:36:36 <adiantum> FdorFr: +1 !
13:36:37 <ianychoi> bye :)
13:36:38 <ujuc> :)
13:36:58 <Daisy> Next topic.
13:37:24 <Daisy> #topic IBM wants to contribute translations
13:37:30 <Daisy> doug-fish: are you still here ?
13:37:42 <doug-fish> I am
13:37:50 <Daisy> will you explain your plan to the team ?
13:38:14 <doug-fish> IBM has a set of translations that we'd like to share with the community
13:38:25 <doug-fish> based on our Kilo translation of OpenStack
13:38:56 <doug-fish> It's about 6 or 7 projects and 9 or 10 languages ... it doesn't include Horizon ....
13:39:18 <Daisy> projects:
13:39:18 <Daisy> ceilometer glance heat nova ironic neutron cinder keystone swift
13:39:18 <Daisy> for languages:
13:39:19 <doug-fish> We'd like to use this to bring some of the other projects translations more up to date
13:39:20 <Daisy> de es  fr  it  ja  ko_KR  pt_BR  ru  zh_CN  zh_TW
13:40:11 <doug-fish> I'm working on a tool to do this merge intelligently, so if a translation for a segment exists is doesn't get overwritten
13:40:11 <adiantum> what is translated in this projects? logs?
13:40:12 <FdotFr> is the translators used the works done into horizon ?
13:40:53 <FdotFr> do they try to use the same terminlogy ?
13:40:57 <doug-fish> I'm not 100% sure if the logs are translated
13:41:43 <FdotFr> doug-fish that's not a pb for the logs because we were agreed for not translating them ,à
13:41:45 <FdotFr> ;)
13:42:09 <doug-fish> I'll actually have to make sure we don't translate them because I believe the capability is still there, right?
13:42:16 <ianychoi> Before it merges to different languages, can we review IBM translations and compare it?
13:42:18 <Daisy> FdotFr: I think, we could have them to use the same terminlogy in the future. But for now, IBM's contribution will help us to increase a big number of the completion rate.
13:42:21 <adiantum> doug-fish: that's good - because translations of logs could be bad thing... for operators who searching answer in search engines easy to find untranslated messages
13:42:35 <doug-fish> adiantum: yes, understood
13:42:41 <FdotFr> adiantum +1 :)
13:42:45 <doug-fish> * wishes for message IDs
13:43:22 <doug-fish> ianychoi: I'm not sure there is a way to conduct a review
13:43:28 <doug-fish> Daisy: do you have any suggestion for that?
13:43:41 <FdotFr> doug-fish if there is not the same terminoly into the product and into Horizon you can have a lot of misunderstand
13:43:48 <Daisy> ianychoi: As doug-fish said, he will merge IBM translations with existing translations, and make sure the existing translations won't be overwrited.
13:44:16 <doug-fish> I'd expect the translations to be similar to what what donated in the past for some of these projects
13:44:27 <doug-fish> they aren't nearly as active as Horizon!
13:44:32 <FdotFr> horizon is using error message from this project so i you have an error message which is reported with a different word it can difficult to understand
13:44:57 <ianychoi> I am a little bit worried that IBM translation results would include unnecessary log translations..
13:45:11 <adiantum> and i think additionally we need to be sure that we have same terminology in translations, it's important i think
13:45:15 <doug-fish> FdotFr: The "good" news here is that Horizon and service messages aren't coordinated in english either.  :-)
13:45:32 <FdotFr> doug-fish that's a good news :)
13:45:55 <FdotFr> doug-fish we are probably going to have understandable messages :D
13:46:08 <doug-fish> Daisy: would the tooling allow these translations to be uploaded, and then rollled back to a previous state if they were found to be unacceptable in some way?
13:46:28 <Daisy> no, doug-fish
13:46:39 <Daisy> We need to figure out a way to review IBM's translations.
13:46:50 <Daisy> of course, we could review from the UI.
13:46:51 <doug-fish> overall I'm certain the IBM translations are of good quality - but I can't say for sure how consistent they may be with existing terminology
13:46:58 <Daisy> we could review from zanata UI.
13:47:21 <Daisy> But I think, the team may want to review the contributions in a whole, which might be much easier for the reviewers.
13:47:39 <doug-fish> sure, I can understand that ....
13:47:41 <Daisy> doug-fish: agree, I have confidence to the quality too.
13:47:55 <doug-fish> can you offer any suggestion on the best mechanism to conduct the review?
13:48:13 <Daisy> what I could think, is to use a shared repo, or google docs.
13:48:36 <ianychoi> Yes I really hope that IBM terminologies would be consistent with our translations.
13:49:28 <Daisy> ianychoi: I hope all of us could work together to improve the terminologies, and then make it as a consistency, whether who want to translate.
13:49:49 <ianychoi> Daisy, I totally agree with you.
13:50:07 <Daisy> ianychoi: I mean, both our team, and IBM translators, and maybe other professional translators from other companies.
13:51:06 <Daisy> ianychoi: but for now, you know, even in some existing translations, we didn't use a unique terminologies.
13:51:17 <ianychoi> One possible review I think is that it would be better if we see the diff: our PO files and IBM translation's PO files.
13:52:21 <ianychoi> Daisy, I also agree that some existing translations have not unique terminologies.
13:52:44 <Daisy> ianychoi: As doug-fish's original plan, he will only contribute the translations of strings which are not translated in community.
13:52:48 <doug-fish> ianychoi: just to be clear - I have PO files available to me that have complete translations, but I am working on a tool to only update translations where the segment is missing
13:53:18 <doug-fish> so a compare might be interesting, but please remember that none of those strings would actually get updated
13:53:22 <doug-fish> unless I write a bug.
13:53:25 <doug-fish> but that doesn't happen.
13:53:42 <ianychoi> Daisy, I see. Thank you for your clarification.
13:53:57 <Daisy> doug-fish: I think we could use a repo. When you have done, create a repo in github, and share with the team.
13:54:10 <Daisy> Package all the po files together, and share with the team.
13:54:36 <doug-fish> Daisy: okay that sounds good. Thanks all!
13:54:50 <Daisy> #topic open discussions
13:56:11 <Daisy> As to the naming list to get ATC codes for the summit, the naming list might be a little different from what I have proposed to TC.
13:56:58 <Daisy> Acoording to Therriy's comments, the people who could get ATC codes are active contributors in 6 month.
13:57:35 <Daisy> The naming list I proposed are people who are active contributors since 2014.11
13:58:13 <Daisy> So I will create a new naming list according to the data in Transifex.
13:58:44 <Daisy> Any other things to discuss here ?
13:59:08 <adiantum> For stats purposes as i said before we need to have naming conventions
13:59:22 <Daisy> adiantum: let's discuss in openstack-i18n.
13:59:26 <adiantum> ok
13:59:51 <Daisy> OK. I will write an email to ML about the topics we discussed today.
13:59:56 <Daisy> Thank you for attending.
14:00:02 <adiantum> thank you
14:00:05 <Daisy> I will close the meeting.
14:00:09 <doug-fish> thanks all!
14:00:16 <Daisy> #endmeeting