20:00:08 <johnsom> #startmeeting Octavia
20:00:09 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jan 31 20:00:08 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnsom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:10 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:12 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'octavia'
20:00:17 <cgoncalves> o/
20:00:22 <Alex_Staf> o/
20:00:22 <xgerman_> o/
20:00:29 <longstaff> hi
20:00:34 <johnsom> Hi folks!
20:00:44 <rm_mobile> o/
20:00:45 <eandersson_> \o
20:00:52 <jniesz> hi
20:01:03 <johnsom> #topic Announcements
20:01:14 <johnsom> Queens RC1 is next week!
20:01:21 <johnsom> #link https://releases.openstack.org/queens/schedule.html
20:01:40 <johnsom> I think if we can get the priority patches in we might just have one RC.
20:01:49 <johnsom> Priority bug/patch list for Queens
20:01:56 <johnsom> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Octavia-Queens-Priority-Review
20:02:07 <johnsom> That link is also in the normal topic for our IRC channel
20:02:33 <johnsom> Also note, PTL nominations for Rocky are open
20:02:39 <johnsom> #link https://governance.openstack.org/election/
20:02:52 <johnsom> And finally:
20:02:54 <johnsom> PTG Dublin - Price Increase this Thursday
20:03:01 <johnsom> #link https://rockyptg.eventbrite.com/
20:03:14 <johnsom> If you have not yet registered for the PTG in Dublin, the price goes up tomorrow.
20:03:27 <xgerman_> don’t forget to mention the deprecation
20:03:46 <johnsom> Oh, and one last thing: We announced the deprecation of neutron-lbaas and neutron-lbaas-dashboard.
20:04:19 <johnsom> xgerman_ Way to spoil the bit announcement...  grin
20:04:39 <johnsom> It's the next topic on the agenda anyway.
20:04:46 <johnsom> Any other announcements?
20:05:10 <johnsom> #topic Neutron-lbaas and neutron-lbaas-dashboard deprecation announced
20:05:18 <johnsom> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-January/126836.html
20:05:39 <johnsom> Per the vote last week I have sent out the announcements to both the dev and operator mailing lists.
20:05:58 <johnsom> I have also put together an FAQ page we can point folks to: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/Deprecation
20:06:26 <johnsom> So far the response has been positive, but it is still early.
20:06:34 <johnsom> Any questions or comments about the deprecation?
20:06:48 <johnsom> I'm working on the documentation and code patches for that today.
20:07:15 <cgoncalves> johnsom: thank you!
20:07:47 <johnsom> You are welcome. Grin
20:08:18 <johnsom> Ok, if there isn't more to discuss on the deprecation I will move on in the agenda.
20:08:37 <johnsom> #topic Brief progress reports / bugs needing review
20:09:16 <johnsom> Between working on the deprecation and FAQ I have been working through the bugs that were on our priority list for Queens.
20:09:40 <Alex_Staf> do we have etherpad for that ?
20:09:51 <Alex_Staf> like for the patches ?
20:10:10 <johnsom> Alex_Staf Yes, it's part of the priority review etherpad I mentioned above.
20:10:15 <johnsom> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Octavia-Queens-Priority-Review
20:10:28 <Alex_Staf> johnsom, cool tnx
20:11:01 <johnsom> I think we are down to two issues, one of which may not make queens (amp flitering) as it's going to be a sizable patch with some risk.
20:11:28 <johnsom> The other is the VIP port passed in that has port security disabled.
20:11:49 <johnsom> There is a patch up for that, but I think it might be the wrong approach. I need to review it again.
20:12:34 <johnsom> My first thought is we should just turn port security back on for the port, similar to how we take control of the security group on the port. But, that is just top of mind thinking.
20:13:07 <johnsom> If there are other bugs in the queens code you think we should work on or get into queens, please let me know as soon as you can.
20:13:57 <johnsom> As always, please review and vote on those patches up for priority review for queens.
20:14:24 <johnsom> I still have some release notes work to do on the projects as well.  I think I only have a patch up for dashboard.
20:14:47 <johnsom> Any other progress updates?
20:15:32 <johnsom> #topic Octavia testing planning
20:15:40 <johnsom> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/octavia-testing-planning
20:15:45 <johnsom> and
20:15:51 <johnsom> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QpP1DBrx7MKwZeXnSjGr4ru-z5WHCQDN4yse-MuWIG4/edit#gid=0
20:16:15 <johnsom> We started this discussion last week, but didn't really finish.
20:16:40 <Alex_Staf> So this is the initial execution plan . I took it on myself to draft a list and have your comments .
20:17:11 <johnsom> I have been looking at the tempest docs as I have time:
20:17:12 <johnsom> #link https://docs.openstack.org/tempest/latest/index.html
20:17:40 <johnsom> It helps clarify the intent behind the API/Scenario tests.
20:17:50 <Alex_Staf> cool I will review it
20:18:41 <johnsom> The one part that we have some confusion in our project is the functional API tests vs. the tempest API tests.
20:18:49 <Alex_Staf> I will need someone to joint the effort though I am junior regarding python
20:19:30 <johnsom> Ok, no problem.  Feel free to ask in the openstack-lbaas room, we are happy to help.
20:19:32 <Alex_Staf> if there is a duplication we should let one of them go
20:19:36 <xgerman_> aren’t they now allowing other languages?
20:20:06 <johnsom> I am also happy to look at specifics if you have questions, etc. Given everything that is going on in the next month or so I can't sign up to pair program on it however.
20:20:18 <johnsom> xgerman_ No
20:20:40 <Alex_Staf> johnsom, I totally understand
20:21:22 <johnsom> xgerman_ There is documentation as to how another language could be added, but that roadmap has not been completed for anything other than python.  Plus there are guidelines as to what tests are required.
20:21:55 <johnsom> #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/project-testing-interface.html
20:22:03 <xgerman_> ok, depending how motivate Alex_Staf  is to avoid python :-)
20:22:19 <rm_mobile> Hah things have gotten... Tight here. It's going to be difficult for a bit to do too much more than reviews
20:22:39 <johnsom> Yeah, if you really wanted to spend a bunch of time on an alternate language, here are the requirements:
20:22:41 <johnsom> #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/new-language-requirements.html
20:22:55 <johnsom> I don't recommend it or you will get started sometime in 2020
20:22:57 <johnsom> grin
20:23:12 <rm_mobile> Uhh, I'd stick to Python, lol
20:23:19 <Alex_Staf> xgerman_, at this moment python is the only code I am junior in
20:23:42 <Alex_Staf> + junior is my top coding rank :P
20:23:43 <johnsom> Alex_Staf You can pick it up quick, plus we are here to help
20:23:48 <rm_mobile> You'll learn quickly :)
20:24:01 <Alex_Staf> what is the alternative coding language ?
20:24:10 <johnsom> Currently, nonee
20:24:17 <Alex_Staf> great then :)
20:24:25 <johnsom> Go has been proposed, but has not met the requirements bar yet
20:25:11 <johnsom> Basically, fastest path to tests for Octavia is to use python and the existing frameworks.
20:25:44 <xgerman_> +1
20:25:50 <Alex_Staf> johnsom, as I thought so no surprises here
20:26:04 <johnsom> Also, FYI, check with the team before looking at how other projects do things.  Some projects still have bad habits/old code that may lead you down a bad path. (neutron tempest for example)
20:26:37 <johnsom> There are good examples out there, but some bad ones too
20:26:40 <Alex_Staf> johnsom, cool, as I remember designate are ok
20:26:52 <johnsom> Yeah, designate is in pretty good shape.
20:27:11 <johnsom> The #openstack-qa channel is available too for testing questions.
20:27:46 <Alex_Staf> ack
20:27:53 <johnsom> Alex_Staf are there specific topics you would like to cover here?
20:28:35 <Alex_Staf> johnsom, not now but as I know my self I will have a lot of questions soon ( like the alexQuestions etherpad I have :))
20:29:16 <Alex_Staf> I will try to adjust my hours partly better to have your attention. If I will not be able to do that cgoncalves will get my question list :)
20:29:44 <johnsom> Ok, sounds good.
20:30:04 <rm_mobile> For the record, with regard to the functional vs scenario test "duplication", I am generally in favor of keeping everything that exists currently, as there is a very important distinction between out of tree tests that require a working stack, and the in-tree tests that will run with minimal setup
20:30:18 <cgoncalves> I would gladly help whenever I can :)
20:30:41 <rm_mobile> So I don't really consider there to be any duplication, in fact
20:30:49 <johnsom> rm_mobile I lean this way too.  I really like our current functional API tests, but I also see the need for the tempest-plugin API tests.
20:31:05 <rm_mobile> Yes, I believe we will need both
20:31:33 <xgerman_> there is only limited time in the gate
20:31:43 <johnsom> If we decide otherwise in the future we can always bring that up again in a meeting.
20:31:51 <xgerman_> +1
20:32:25 <johnsom> Yes, the functional tests are fast, the tempest API tests are slower, but not really the problem that the scenarios pose
20:33:02 <johnsom> I expect we can still run the tempest API tests with no-op drivers right?  Since scenario actually tests the code paths.
20:33:47 <johnsom> tempest API should also include negative tests, which we don't have a lot of in the functional test space.
20:34:26 <johnsom> For example, loading an encyclopedia set into the description fields
20:34:53 <johnsom> Ok, other discussion on this or should we move on with the agenda?
20:35:22 <johnsom> #topic Add api call that will indicate amphora image VERSION ( image name in glance is not enough) RFE
20:35:30 <johnsom> #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2001491
20:35:54 <johnsom> Alex_Staf I think this one is also yours.
20:36:17 <Alex_Staf> johnsom, yep
20:36:35 <johnsom> I have added a few comments there. I hope others will as well.
20:36:38 <Alex_Staf> This one is relevant for the future when updates and upgrades will be executed
20:36:44 <johnsom> Is there anything more to discuss on this?
20:36:45 <Alex_Staf> johnsom++
20:37:04 <cgoncalves> Alex_Staf: having the glance image id in the amp table isn't enough? this is provided that we can get it in a GET /amphora/<id> call
20:37:15 <Alex_Staf> If the purpose of this is clear and accepted then no
20:38:10 <johnsom> I am good with the "store glance image ID" concept for sure.
20:38:15 <xgerman_> well, operators need to do some work… like giving their images meaningful names
20:38:23 <cgoncalves> rm_mobile promised he would convince johnsom to have it included in for queens :P
20:38:46 <cgoncalves> just kidding. it would land only in rocky
20:38:49 <johnsom> Ha, well, a trail of broken promises.... grin
20:39:07 <Alex_Staf> cgoncalves, we need to have n API list that will show the version field and the operator will see the differences in the LB versions .
20:39:20 <johnsom> Yeah, rocky would be good.
20:39:42 <cgoncalves> Alex_Staf: the glance image would go in https://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/load-balancer/v2/index.html#show-amphora-details
20:39:46 <johnsom> There is probably some work to get that amp details API cleaned up and exposed.
20:39:47 <xgerman_> I don’t want the amp table to become a mini-configuration-management system
20:40:05 <cgoncalves> rm_mobile: right?
20:40:06 <Alex_Staf> and if the image builder will use some info to generate a glance image with proper name fitting to the used image name and version this could be SUPER high level usablity for the operators
20:40:27 <xgerman_> doesn’t glance have meta tags
20:40:42 <xgerman_> we can print the command to upload with the tags…
20:40:50 <xgerman_> after the diskimagebuilder ran
20:40:53 <johnsom> What I don't want is "amphora list" to require calls to each amphora.  An amphora show details is ok, but list should really just pull from the DB
20:41:06 <cgoncalves> xgerman_: it does. octavia picks the last created image in case there are several with same tag
20:41:24 <xgerman_> yeah, and we can have more than one tag
20:41:29 <xgerman_> and one can say version
20:41:41 <johnsom> Well, metadata tags are different than image tags.
20:41:45 <johnsom> Let's not confuse that.
20:42:13 <johnsom> Also, metadata is an extension if I remember properly, so may not be available in all deployments, so we need to use it carefully
20:42:49 <johnsom> #link https://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/image/v2/metadefs-index.html
20:43:01 <cgoncalves> correct. I actually read xgerman_ msg as "glance tags" instead of "glance meta tags"
20:43:21 <cgoncalves> I believe he also wanted to say glance image tags
20:43:34 <johnsom> hmm, I saw the meta so went in that direction
20:43:34 <xgerman_> ok, my intent is to leverage glance for all that image version stuff — you would think they have ways to support that ;-)
20:44:04 <johnsom> Well, they don't even have a description field, so....
20:44:53 * xgerman_ was wondering why we have xcel sreadhseets with image names
20:46:19 <johnsom> I think the summary is, comment on the RFE.  Tracking the image-id in the DB is pretty straight forward and useful. If we go deeper into the amp details and call the amp REST API we need to watch the performance impact. etc...
20:47:01 <johnsom> You can still post patches that are feature enhancements BTW, we just won't merge them until Rocky is open. Which if all goes well with RC1 might be pretty soon.
20:47:35 <johnsom> #topic CLI for driver specific features
20:47:41 <johnsom> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/octavia-drivers-osc
20:47:51 <johnsom> We had etherpad voting going on for this one.
20:48:39 <johnsom> Next steps I see is I need to go work with the OpenStack client folks and negotiate our naming.
20:49:27 <rm_mobile> Ah sorry got distracted -- yeah I'll be able to propose the patch to include just image ID, just haven't prioritized since it couldn't merge yet anyway and it'll be simple to do
20:49:32 <johnsom> It looks like "openstack octavia amphora" is currently in the lead. My concern is they may not let a project name in the OSC namespace or may complain about it.  But, I will propose it and see what we get.
20:50:08 <johnsom> Any other discussion on this one?
20:50:10 <cgoncalves> johnsom: there's 'openstack congress' for one
20:50:17 <johnsom> Ah, good to know
20:50:38 <Alex_Staf> I still think openstack loadbalancer DRIVER amphora
20:50:41 <Alex_Staf> :)
20:51:01 <johnsom> Yeah, that was my vote too
20:51:08 <rm_mobile> I just want to follow our API layout
20:51:28 <rm_mobile> Which puts Octavia at the same level as Loadbalancer
20:51:39 <johnsom> Make sense
20:51:43 <Alex_Staf> But octavia is a drvier for loadbalancer
20:51:54 <johnsom> I will give it a go by running it by the OSC folks.
20:52:09 <xgerman_> ok, let’s see what they think and then we can re-vote
20:52:10 <cgoncalves> Alex_Staf: yes and no :)
20:52:21 <rm_mobile> Yeah that'd be my fallback vote
20:52:32 <rm_mobile> If we did ranked voting
20:52:44 <cgoncalves> Alex_Staf: 'octavia' is the name of the project but also the same name is used as driver naming (which once more I'd be in favor of renaming it)
20:52:58 <johnsom> #topic Open Discussion
20:53:09 <johnsom> Ha, well, that was timing wasn't it
20:53:11 <rm_mobile> Yeah I've been thinking about that too
20:53:40 <Alex_Staf> cgoncalves, I wil lrephrase then : Octavia is a loadbalancing improving project :) hence it is to improve loadbalancer .
20:53:49 <johnsom> This is the topic of should we split out the "octavia driver" (the reference implementation) into it's own repo.
20:53:52 <Alex_Staf> Ok I can live with top 2 options anyhow :)
20:53:52 <rm_mobile> Would it be confusing to rename it the "amphora driver"? ;)
20:54:16 <xgerman_> yes
20:54:29 <xgerman_> but people are so confused anyway
20:54:31 <johnsom> rm_mobile I think so as amphora has it's own definition about being a load balancing "engine"
20:54:32 <cgoncalves> rm_mobile: I'd find another name. what's the top-level of 'amphora' if there's such
20:54:35 <Alex_Staf> then the cli will be openstack loadbalancer amphora ... ? or openstack amphora ?
20:54:47 <cgoncalves> Alex_Staf: TBD
20:54:52 <johnsom> #link https://docs.openstack.org/octavia/latest/reference/glossary.html
20:55:09 <xgerman_> yeah, let’s do some focus group esting for names
20:55:15 <johnsom> Sigh
20:55:29 <rm_mobile> Yes, but thinking about it, what this driver does is "provide amphora to do Loadbalancing"
20:55:34 <johnsom> Maybe the first decision is if we split it out.
20:55:43 <rm_mobile> Yes naming is hard
20:55:50 <johnsom> Then, if we decide to, think about a name
20:55:53 <rm_mobile> So I wonder how much work this will be
20:56:03 <rm_mobile> And if we can even possibly get it done
20:56:13 <johnsom> A bit.  It's the bulk of the code we currently have
20:56:25 <xgerman_> if we split it pout we potentially will need octavia-lib
20:56:29 <johnsom> It would basically leave the API behind
20:56:35 <rm_mobile> Because it will have to practically halt most other work on things like our flows?
20:56:39 <cgoncalves> johnsom: I'd vote for keeping community-supported reference implementation in-tree and vendor specific out of tree, like neutron ml2
20:56:43 <xgerman_> so why don’t we split the API out, then?
20:57:10 <xgerman_> but agree with cgoncalves
20:57:13 <johnsom> xgerman Similar work, more confusion IMO
20:57:23 <rm_mobile> That also does make sense. Which would mean no split
20:57:26 <cgoncalves> lets deprecate octavia and create an octavia-ng project :P
20:57:47 <johnsom> cgoncalves That has been my thought as well.  Splitting out has implications of how far we split things, etc.
20:58:10 <Alex_Staf> amphora was used to store mainly wing
20:58:11 * johnsom glares at cgoncalves for even mentioning it.
20:58:12 <Alex_Staf> wine
20:58:31 <cgoncalves> johnsom: agreed. but xgerman_ 's suggestion of octavia-lib isn't totally crazy
20:58:31 <rm_mobile> I think also oil and grains?
20:58:34 <Alex_Staf> hence top level of wine is vineyard
20:58:37 <cgoncalves> johnsom: :DDD
20:58:47 <Alex_Staf> nice name vineyard
20:58:52 <xgerman_> time to move to harder liquor
20:58:52 <Alex_Staf> :)
20:58:57 <Alex_Staf> xgerman_, +1
20:59:05 <cgoncalves> hah!
20:59:09 <johnsom> Dublin will be soon enough...
20:59:14 <johnsom> Ok, one minute left
20:59:47 <cgoncalves> quick update regarding octavia-tripleo integration. there has been good progress in that field
20:59:47 <johnsom> Thanks for joining folks!  Have good rest of your week and do some reviews...  grin
20:59:48 <Alex_Staf> "Amphorae were used in vast numbers for the transport and storage of various products, both liquid and dry, but mostly for wine"
21:00:03 <Alex_Staf> johnsom, good time of day guys :) ( or night )
21:00:10 <johnsom> #endmeeting