20:00:00 #startmeeting Octavia 20:00:01 Meeting started Wed Oct 29 20:00:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sbalukoff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:00:02 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 20:00:04 The meeting name has been set to 'octavia' 20:00:06 #topic Roll Call 20:00:14 howdy folks! 20:00:15 o/ 20:00:18 o/ 20:00:20 0/ 20:00:21 o/ 20:00:37 o/ 20:00:38 Here's the agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Octavia/Weekly_Meeting_Agenda#Agenda 20:01:14 #topic Announcements and Updates 20:01:26 o/ 20:01:30 o/ 20:02:04 The only announcement that I have is that I'm thinking next week's meeting will probably be cancelled, as half of us will be at the summit next week (and probably in the UDP load balancing session, given the usual time for this meeting in Paris) 20:02:08 o/ 20:02:17 seconded 20:02:41 If someone not going to the summit wants to run an Octavia meeting, y'all should feel free. Otherwise, I'm hoping we can collaborate with y'all online as we discuss things and hack code throughout the week. 20:02:57 Does anyone else have announcements they'd like to share? 20:03:23 how about the neutron lbaas meeting next week? 20:03:24 sbalukoff I think just keeping us in the loop with conversations is a great idea 20:03:26 I just had an AWESOME german sausage sandwich 20:03:30 that's my only announcement 20:03:34 sballe: planning to cancel that as well, but will ask tomorrow 20:03:35 :) 20:03:42 :) ok 20:04:00 Ok, on to the next topic... 20:04:05 #topic Reviews Needing Attention ( https://review.openstack.org/#/q/stackforge/octavia+status:open,n,z ) 20:04:53 i think we've gotten some good comments on most of those that aren't WIP 20:05:01 We've actually got quite a few in there that don't have "-1" workflow, and also don't have enough "-1" love for actual reviews. 20:05:16 Yes-- that's true. 20:05:20 i can do some tomorrow, and more on saturday (in transit) 20:05:30 Definitely more activity this last week (thanks y'all!) 20:05:54 i still need to push the docstring updates tot eh operator-api code, but probably won't get that done until this weekend or next 20:06:03 Regarding https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130002/, I am actively working on addressing the comments, will have another patch later today. 20:06:14 Things are going to be a little chaotic with the summit, but let's please keep up the momentum in reviewing, eh! 20:06:17 awesome ajmiller, looking forward to it! 20:06:35 I'll do more reviews tomorrow too. I have some time again 20:06:49 sballe: did you get a chacne to look at seqdiag? 20:06:53 I'm gone for most of this weekend, but I'll have a significant amount of work to do while you guys are at the summit. After you return I might start pestering again for reviews on the new content though :D 20:06:56 I've got a couple things to say about the Amphora API as well, but I'll wait until a little later for that. 20:06:57 I am doing that next 20:07:21 blogan: should be done before lunch tomorrow 20:07:40 Cool. 20:07:50 great 20:07:57 Ok, we'll get updates on specific reviews a little later in this meeting. 20:08:06 For now, let's move on to the next topic 20:08:12 sballe: this is super useful for debugging/learning: http://blockdiag.appspot.com/seqdiag/ 20:08:12 #topic Octavia hack-a-thon in December (sbalukoff) 20:08:24 Ok, so! 20:08:30 no rackers :( 20:08:31 Let's do a hack-a-thon on Octavia in December. 20:08:41 I was thinking the week of Dec 8th. 20:08:41 sbalukoff: I'll probably be in WA in december 20:08:46 though not that early 20:08:55 And in Seattle. 20:08:58 +1 on the Hackathon 20:09:04 Seatlle +1 20:09:07 +1 and HP can host 20:09:10 lol 20:09:14 sbalukoff: HP is happy to host it 20:09:17 Blue Box could host it, or if HP wants to, I'm game for either. 20:09:22 Rackspace is happy not to attend 20:09:26 ha ha ha 20:09:29 i'll do to whichever site has cold red bull. 20:09:32 blogan: Roadtrip? 20:09:33 I can be up there starting the 8th if Rackspace has no problem letting me work up there through January (I was planning to take several weeks vacation there anyway) 20:09:33 /do/go/ 20:09:35 unless HP acquires us 20:09:40 dougwig: We do! :) 20:09:46 blogan: Your budgets are freed up after the new year, right? 20:09:47 sballe: :) 20:09:57 maybe we can do another hack-a-thon in late January / early February. 20:10:04 sbalukoff: more so than this year, but who knows what will be approved 20:10:16 jorgem needs to look into that 20:10:18 Right. 20:10:19 yea, not something to count on unfortunately 20:10:34 Well, or we could all head down to San Antonio again then or something. 20:10:47 heh 20:10:50 :/ 20:10:55 out of pure principal I would not want that 20:10:59 Anyway, other than the RAXers not having budget to travel, any objections to that week or location? 20:10:59 just because Rackspace is cheap... 20:11:06 i don't recommend caving to them being stingy <_< 20:11:08 tax charity... 20:11:08 lol 20:11:10 warmer there in Dec compared to here 20:11:11 /tax/rax/ 20:11:13 dya 20:11:30 I'll try to work out being there sbalukoff <_< 20:11:38 That would be great, Adam! 20:11:45 you dont want him there 20:11:57 Ok, Suzanne and German: Shall we work out the details offline? 20:12:07 sbalukoff: I would like to do Tues, Wed so we can travel on Mon 20:12:08 i'm in, at either location. 20:12:10 If you waited for the week of the 15th my birthday would be rolled in :P 20:12:13 sbalukoff: yes 20:12:22 yes 20:12:32 dougwig: good. it about 1/2 mile from each other :) 20:12:44 heh, i meant seattle or san antonio. 20:12:47 lol 20:12:51 #action Hack-a-thon to be in Seattle during week of Dec. 8. sbalukoff, sballe, and xgerman to work out specifics and announce on mailing list 20:12:51 haha 20:13:03 dougwig: Oh I thougth you meant BlueBox or HP :) 20:13:14 that too. 20:13:20 TrevorV: Yeah, my birthday is the 17th. 20:13:27 YOU LIAR!!!! 20:13:27 we will attach a Google Map with driving directions San Antonio - Seattle :-) 20:13:33 sbalukoff and I have the same birth date 20:13:53 Cool! 20:13:53 day, not date, I would assume :) 20:13:54 my birthday is today. for real. 20:13:57 TrevorV: I'm not sure you want to advertise that. You know, having the same birthdate as a despot. 20:13:57 mine is the 18th 20:14:01 happy birthday rohara :) 20:14:01 happy birthday rohara!! 20:14:04 happy birthday rohara !! 20:14:06 thanks. 40. 20:14:12 Happy birthday, rohara! 20:14:16 happy b-day 20:14:18 Over the hill, even. 20:14:20 sbalukoff: was birthdays on the agenda? 20:14:23 ah, and it's a milestone birthday to boot! 20:14:24 nice, happy bday 20:14:25 rohara: It is now. 20:14:29 sweet 20:14:32 Honestly though, I will probably go to that hackathon on my own dime since I want to go see seattle 20:14:33 #topic Happy Birthday rohara 20:14:37 hahaha 20:14:41 lol 20:14:48 Ok, next topic! 20:14:52 #topic Discussion with API working group (jaypipes) 20:14:54 no i liek this one 20:14:56 Is jaypipes present? 20:15:42 he's on the channel list. 20:15:50 This is going to be more difficult to discuss with him not active. 20:15:55 maybe move ahead, and we can come back to this if he appears. 20:16:01 i looked at some of their requirements 20:16:03 good strategy 20:16:05 Well, first of all, has everyone ready the ML discussion on this? 20:16:22 Actually, that's a good plan. 20:16:30 We'll come back to this if he shows up. 20:16:40 #topic Progress reports 20:17:02 blogan: Update on the operator API? 20:17:31 still need to add and push the docstrings but teh code can be reviewed 20:17:53 the docstrigns update probably won't be pushed until this weekend or next week, lots to do 20:18:22 Cool. I will say: If you haven't looked yet, it's basically the Octavia variant of the LBaaS v2 user API right now. The idea here is to get a base to start from and flesh out operator specifics in later updates. 20:18:34 blogan: I hear you. 20:18:39 Ok, let's see... 20:18:42 Amphora API 20:18:50 Ok, that's me and davidlenwell 20:18:51 i wantt o finish the amphora lifecycle doc first because a lot of work can come out of that 20:19:07 Oh, ok. 20:19:14 (Sorry, didn't mean to cut you off there.) 20:19:20 oh i cut you off 20:19:21 but im done now 20:19:24 proceed 20:19:26 Heh 20:19:47 blogan: I am interested inthe amphora lifecycle. How can I participate? 20:20:05 sballe: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130424/ 20:20:10 thats a WIP but you can add feedback 20:20:11 thanks 20:20:12 Ok, so Amphora API: The spec is in, please review. Only major plan I have to change it right now (unless I hear back from y'all otherwise) is to remove the TLS certificate retrieval methods. 20:20:39 There's no reason the Amphora should ever send the private key data over the wire again once it has it. 20:20:42 what abouto the /action? 20:20:51 vs the query parameter 20:21:05 its minor i nkow 20:21:11 network driver and neutron implementation (dougwig) - same as last week; expect something this weekend or early next week. 20:21:20 sballe: there's also stuff about the Amphora lifecycle in the TLS Data Security CR (look at the seqdiags): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130659/ 20:21:22 But! We might replace it with a method which allows the amphora to print the modulus of the key/cert and other meta-data, so the driver can query this without having to just overwrite what's there every time. 20:21:37 sbalukoff: ^^ to what you were saying, that stuff is detailed in the review i just linked 20:21:51 blogan: I like that suggestion too, and am planning on making that change per your suggestion. 20:22:00 yes do my bidding 20:22:12 Hah! 20:22:23 oh and 409 instead of 503? 20:22:32 Never let it be said that this dictator didn't listen to his peons. 20:22:34 ;) 20:22:43 im just a serf 20:22:48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKKP_cZuk54 20:22:54 blogan: I'm still thinking 503 is appropriate for those particular scenarios. 20:23:13 what does nova do? 20:23:19 (ie. topology transition in progress should be a 503 error) 20:23:21 err…return? 20:23:24 nova is 409 20:23:30 ah well then 20:23:37 consistincy? 20:23:40 Does nova have a congruent scenario? 20:23:44 jorgem +1 20:23:51 503 says its unavailable bc of overload or maintenance, to me thats server maintenacne, doesn't ahve anythign to do with teh actual entity 20:23:54 this is octavia, it must be time for a vote. 20:24:04 Haha 20:24:12 lol 20:24:25 sbalukoff: yeah when a server is in a state not ACTIVE, it can be rebooted, restarted, etc, so it returns 409 20:24:25 Seriously, what does Nova actually return when an asynchronous command is in progress? 20:24:32 Aah. 20:24:35 202 20:24:35 it can't be rebooted 20:24:38 are you advocating using the retry-after header as well sbalukoff? 20:24:58 jorgem: I hadn't mentioned that specifically, but it's not a bad idea. 20:25:17 409 is consistent, and makes the most sense 20:25:24 sbalukoff: That would be nice but very hard to implement I would say 20:25:31 409 is for when this happens on non-aynch 20:25:39 *non-asynch 20:25:41 adn this is one of thos minor things that can take a while to agree on, but the Amphora API is an interface that the controller will be talkign to, so it has to be right 20:26:00 yeah, because we don't control both halves. 20:26:06 haha 20:26:41 I'm not vehemently opposed to 409 here... it makes little difference to the workflow, in my mind. 20:26:49 So, sure... I'll change it to a 409 error. 20:27:06 Anything else? 20:27:12 you buckle fast :) 20:27:15 The little people do have a voice! 20:27:18 im satisfied with my wins, i will shut up now 20:27:20 lol 20:27:29 BTW Thanks to everybody who gave https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101281/10 a +1. It merged! 20:27:37 jorgem: I pick my battles. This one isn't that important in the long run. :) 20:27:49 sbalukoff: touche sir...touche 20:28:08 Ok! 20:28:13 dougwig: network driver and neutron implementation 20:28:18 Status update/ 20:28:19 ? 20:28:23 look up about 30 status codes ago. 20:28:24 he gave it up 20:28:29 i mean he gave it up top 20:28:41 Aah, ok. 20:28:44 :) 20:28:58 Is johnsom here today? 20:29:17 he has been pulled for a week long special project 20:29:39 Ok. 20:29:43 but will be back Monday 20:29:56 So, I know that davidlenwell has some ideas which should speed development of that part. 20:30:03 xgerman: is this frankenlibra? 20:30:17 in a sense... 20:30:35 I'm concerned that it's been weeks since we've heard from him. I'll try contacting him directly. 20:31:02 (Because this is very quickly going to become a blocker for the amphora API work.) 20:31:16 Anyway, next... 20:31:20 sbalukoff: are you referring to the creating an image task using disk image builder ? 20:31:20 xgerman: amphora-driver-interface 20:31:28 davidlenwell: yes. 20:31:33 yes, we started implementation work 20:31:37 want me to just do that? 20:31:55 xgerman: We've yet to see any code committed. 20:32:08 yes, we will commit before the week ends 20:32:10 xgerman: And little communication 20:32:23 in a distributed project sometimes others have to puck up the slack 20:32:31 no hard feelings 20:32:50 amphora-driver-interface: code is coming 20:32:57 Also, I think this problem has mostly been solved by other projects. 20:33:29 Welcome, johnsom_! 20:33:46 I imagine you've just heard we were talking about the base image progress. 20:33:48 I heard you were looking for me... Sweet to be missed.... 20:34:32 * blogan misses his johnsom bear 20:34:33 Ah, spec is done, I have done some exploratory work. Is it blocking someone? 20:34:36 johnsom_: So the base image stuff is going to become a blocker for the amphora API work fairly soon. And David has been able to find how the diskimagebuilder stuff has been handled in other projects. 20:34:42 How far along are you on the code? 20:35:00 I'm inclined to just have David take a crack at it at this point. 20:35:07 Yeah, I am leveraging Sahara's scripts and adapting for our needs 20:35:12 sbalukoff: sorry, here now :( 20:35:17 johnsom_: did you see this ? https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/tripleo-image-elements/tree/elements/haproxy 20:35:21 hi jaypipes 20:35:26 jaypipes: Sounds good. We'll come back to your topic in a few minutes. 20:35:41 sbalukoff, sballe: cheers 20:36:46 little did i think that meant no one typing for a few minutes. 20:36:51 Yes, I have seen the tripleo elements, which we will borrow from. I have not looked at the haproxy element yet. 20:37:15 johnsom_: Can you commit the code you've written thus far this week? 20:37:42 No, I'm not ready to commit code on this. 20:38:17 thats what WIP is for really 20:38:24 Ok, then please don't be offended if I ask David to take a crack at it as soon as we need it for the amphora API code. 20:38:43 I put it on the back burner while getting a first draft of a controller spec drafted. I wanted to have a starting point for that spec out and getting chewed up while I did the code on disk image 20:39:06 I'm not sure I see the dependency 20:39:38 So, help me help you. When do you think you need the disk image code? 20:40:05 David, when do you think you'll need it? 20:41:43 davidlenwell? 20:41:53 Also, johnsom_: I'm mostly concerned that you've had this blueprint for weeks and we've not heard or seen any progress on it until now. I've got a couple people from EMC and elsewhere interested in working on Octavia, and we can't have people effectively squatting on blueprints or code. 20:42:11 oh snap 20:42:19 Again, in a distributed project sometimes others have to pick up the slack-- there's no offense meant by this. 20:42:24 I'd like to volunteer to help if needed. 20:42:28 That was certainly not my intention sbalukoff 20:42:31 Very few of us do Octavia full-time, or as a primary role of our job. 20:42:46 i think iterating in gerrit with WIPs would solve a lot of this 20:43:04 And people disappear unexpectedly because the circumstances of their involvement change. 20:43:15 I am happy to prioritize it, I just need to understand the dependency and timing 20:43:30 And people disappear unexpectedly because the circumstances of their involvement change. This was the reason, in last weeks meeting, I brought up the the point "If it's not in gerrit, it doesn't exist." 20:43:31 we still haven't heard when you exactly need it 20:44:43 Remember the neutron lbaas weekly standup doc I made a long time ago? That identified blockers which will help identify "when" in a relative sense. 20:44:49 WIP will work too for this I think 20:45:00 I don't have an exact date on when we'll need it for the amphora API. We probably won't be able to effectively test the amphora API without it. 20:45:03 I actually think WIP makes the most sense 20:45:04 I understand sbalukoff. I am sure you can understand the amount of effort going into the controller spec design work. I made the trade off because I didn't see any burning need for the diskimage code and I expect the spec will need a lot of discussion time. 20:45:42 jorgem, I only saw one blocker -- that the image script is neede now is news to me 20:46:08 xgerman: +1 20:46:20 xgerman: This is all news to me since I've been working on other stuff I'm just stating what I see from an outside perspective. Will WIP not work? 20:46:21 So, heard, people are interested in this code. 20:46:22 johnsom_: My impression is that you're being pulled into other things at HP. I've got people wanting to work on both of these things now, and I'm in the position of trying not to offend you by saying "if you don't have time to work on it right now, I'd rather have people who do have time right now work on it." 20:46:25 xgerman: I think just getting code up where everyone can see progress is beneficial int he logn run for everyone. Feedback is great to have 20:46:37 i think the point is that there are new people looking for stuff to do, and if you're not actively working on something for a while, someone else could be doing it instead 20:46:46 It's not a matter of deadlines, per se-- it's a matter of taking advantage of developer time while we've got it. 20:46:53 why complain about someone taking your work? so you have... less work to do? :P 20:46:55 can i suggest that the folks involved in this scheduling/priority thing talk about this offline, and we move on to other topics? 20:47:09 dogwig +1 20:47:14 dougwig +1 20:47:17 Last I looked, there are still a lot of un-assigned blueprints 20:47:24 oh man i need a minute to photoshop a dogwig 20:47:25 dougwig: +1 I think we've identified a communication topic 20:47:27 dougwig: +1 need to get jaypipes topic here 20:47:42 also mine: 20:47:43 TLS Data Security overview is up and ready for review -- need lots of eyes on it since it's about security :) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130659/ 20:47:59 Ok, let's go back to jaypipes' topic for now. 20:48:05 I'm not complaining about anything rm_work. Just news to me that this was an issue. 20:48:23 and I'm actually close to finished with the actual interface and implementation for CertManager -- which I'll hold off on posting until the spec gets solidified more 20:48:24 johnsom_ +1 20:48:27 #topic Discussion with API working group (jaypipes) 20:48:58 jaypipes? You have the floor. 20:49:31 sbalukoff: hi :) so really I just wanted to know if the Octavia LBaaS API spec was published somewhere that the API WG can take a look at .. 20:49:47 jaypipes: i sent you the spec for it in the ML 20:49:58 jaypipes: docs have not been created though 20:50:15 blogan: have about the doc Min created? 20:50:22 jaypipes: is this up-to-date? https://github.com/openstack/api-wg 20:50:32 It's pretty close to Neutron LBaaS v2, with the exception of not having a ton of root-level objects. 20:50:33 sballe: no that was for the neutron lbaas v2 20:50:35 blogan: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122338/1/specs/version0.5/operator-api.rst is just the operator API, though, no? 20:50:37 Er... methods. 20:50:59 sbalukoff: +1 20:51:25 jaypipes: well it'll be a superset of the user api, so thats why right now it only has user api calls 20:51:38 jaypipes: it is just a starting point to iterate off of 20:51:58 gotcha 20:52:30 blogan: this is a big spec... :) 20:52:43 kind of an all-in-one spec... 20:52:47 blogan never sleeps, near as i can tell. 20:53:01 Haha 20:53:03 jaypipes: indeed, and really probably missing details you might need 20:53:45 blogan: well, there's lots of details, which is great... I'd love to see the proposal use JSONSchema and JSONHome for payload and route discovery, respectively, but this is a good start,. 20:54:04 jaypipes: we're using wsme for the json deserialization 20:54:19 blogan: do you and the Octavia community mind if the API WG adopt the Octavia API as the first API we actively advise on and use as an example? 20:54:20 jaypipes: that seemed to be the way openstack projects were going (ironic) 20:54:30 jaypipes: would be great 20:54:39 well i dont object, anyone else? 20:54:52 blogan: yeah, the API WG is more concerned about the structure of the REST API resources, not as much (right now at least) on what libs or whatever is used for implementation. 20:54:54 I don't object either. 20:55:24 blogan: things like terminology, response code standards, payload structure, etc... those are the things we're interested in maintaining (or forcing I guess) some consistency on. 20:55:32 i think it's a good idea, as long as we don't get pulled into political ratholes. then, i would object. 20:55:39 jaypipes: What would you say their timeline is on providing feedback? 20:55:43 haha 20:55:43 blogan: however, we're not an enforcing agency as yet :) just advisory. 20:55:46 dougwig: +1 20:55:47 jaypipes: okay sounds good, that'll definitely help with consistency across all openstack apis 20:56:12 jaypipes: i'm sure most advice that is given will be accepted 20:56:18 jaypipes forgive me, but are you saying it doesn't REALLY matter if we use WSME as long as the behavior according to the API is consistent with other openstack APIs? 20:56:51 sbalukoff: well, I think within the next few weeks, definitely. basically, we're just now starting to create proposals for these REST API standards, and since Octavia's API is newly-proposed, it's a good one to pick as a joint "let's see where this goes" effort 20:57:27 jaypipes: doubly so for us, since everyone on this team is a relative newcomer to openstack. 20:57:42 TrevorV: correct. AFAIK, the API WG isn't making any stand on particular libraries to use. The standard in OpenStack broadly is WSME/Pecan, though. I'm just saying that's not of concern for the API WG. 20:57:46 as long as we are not guinea pigs :-) 20:57:58 Alright, that's great 20:58:03 thanks for the clarification jaypipes 20:58:34 xgerman: no, it's more the other way arouind... we're asking permission to use the things that come up in the Octavia API design conversations as ways for *us* to derive standards discussions. 20:58:40 dogwig: http://i.imgur.com/3Z0Tey0.jpg (shitty photoshop) 20:58:51 Heh! 20:58:53 jaypipes I like that :-) 20:59:02 xgerman: so it's more like *we're* the guinea pigs, not the other way round. 20:59:09 jaypipes: how will future collaboration happen? 20:59:11 rm_work: octavia mascot imho 20:59:11 cool :-) 20:59:13 Ok, we're almost out of time here. Anyone else have something they want to say in the last 30 seconds? 20:59:25 xgerman: basically, we have this openstack/api-wg repo that members of the WG are proposing standards as Gerrit patches/reviews to. 20:59:28 happy halloween. 20:59:40 yes 20:59:41 sbalukoff: i have code for client lib/tool 20:59:46 that is all 20:59:49 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD19BCF9D57320E03 20:59:53 rohara: Nice! 20:59:55 rohara: push it ot gerrit as a WIP 20:59:58 and we're looking to "resolve" all the controversial questions that often come up in API designs by submitting proposals to that repo that get voted on. 21:00:02 Yes, please push it! 21:00:06 xgerman: sballe: and really everyone, could you all respond to the usage ML thread I have going on please? 21:00:17 blogan: see above... 21:00:18 yes, will do! 21:00:26 Ok, thanks folks! 21:00:28 #endmeeting