21:01:29 #startmeeting networking 21:01:30 Meeting started Mon Mar 30 21:01:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:01:31 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:01:34 The meeting name has been set to 'networking' 21:01:41 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda 21:01:49 #topic Announcements 21:01:59 #info We're in the feature freeze now 21:02:06 Be even more cautious with what you're merging now. 21:02:16 If a bug isn't marked as RC and you have quesitons, feel free to ping me 21:02:19 #info RCs: April 9-23 21:02:38 We'll circle back to the final 4 BPs which are targeted to the RC later in the meeting. 21:02:59 OK, lets keep moving, a packed agenda awaits us! 21:03:00 #topic Bugs 21:03:02 enikanorov: Hi! 21:03:09 mestery: hi 21:03:13 hi 21:03:28 i'd like to mention just one bug now 21:03:39 https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1438321 21:03:40 Launchpad bug 1438321 in neutron "Fix process management for neutron-server" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Elena Ezhova (eezhova) 21:03:59 this is an issue that will be introduced if we sync with oslo-incubator 21:04:15 neutron server will not be able to handle signals properly 21:04:40 enikanorov: Thanks for bringing this one up 21:04:55 moreover, the code around service process management need to be reworked, but for now we just need to take care about how not to break what is working 21:05:15 I'm missing something why would you sync with oslo-incubator? 21:05:43 because we use oslo incubator modules, and sync regularly. 21:05:46 anteaya: there are some parts of oslo that are not in a common library yet and are synced 21:06:02 I wanted to bring the two bugs up that are not marked as RC but are targeted there: 21:06:03 https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1381536 21:06:05 Launchpad bug 1381536 in neutron "ResourceClosedError occurs when neutron API run in parallel" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Eugene Nikanorov (enikanorov) 21:06:05 oh a module in oslo-incubator 21:06:17 okay sorry, I mis-understood 21:06:20 This one doesn't appear to be actively worked on at the moment 21:06:30 enikanorov: Are you planning to fix this one in the RC? 21:06:33 mestery: correct, it's better to find someone else 21:06:38 to work on it 21:06:50 enikanorov: Ack, I'll remove you for now, leave it in the RC for a bit and see if I can find someone. Thanks enikanorov! 21:06:51 enikanorov: when did we sync with oslo incubator last? 21:06:53 enikanorov: do we have some traces in logstash? 21:06:53 i might take a look at it, but can't promise 21:07:28 We also have hte VLAN transparent and MTU cleanups, pritesh and ideas there? 21:07:29 https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1434667 21:07:31 Launchpad bug 1434667 in neutron "VLAN transparent feature cleanup" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to pritesh (pritesh) 21:07:39 https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1434671 21:07:40 Launchpad bug 1434671 in neutron "MTU advertisement feature cleanup" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Timothy Swanson (tiswanso) 21:07:56 mestery: i have made some progress on it, will post the patch as soon as i can 21:07:59 We can also discuss this during the bike shedding on APIs later in the meeting if people prefer :) 21:08:03 pritesh: OK, thanks for the update! 21:08:03 armax: march 6 apparently 21:08:22 Any other bugs? enikanorov? Anyone? 21:08:30 mestery: also tim is on the mtu stuff, so he will also be posting a patch soon for it. 21:08:30 enikanorov: I see, so just a handful days after that change merged 21:08:37 pritesh: Ack 21:08:48 enikanorov: I mean https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156345/ 21:09:43 armax: i'm wrong. the merge is from march,6 but the commmit is feb 27 21:09:50 armax: so the breaking change is not it 21:10:05 it seems not to be imported yet. 21:10:13 enikanorov: so you’re saying that we don’t have a problem, yet? 21:10:25 armax: correct 21:10:30 enikanorov: at least not until we effectively sync down? 21:10:36 armax: exactly 21:10:38 (which we shouldn’t now, anyway) 21:11:09 so enikanorov, it makes sense to demote this bug from high to low 21:11:16 armax: And target Liberty-1 as well. 21:11:22 o/ 21:11:23 mestery: ya 21:11:26 ok, since everyone knows now, I'd agree :) 21:11:33 :) 21:11:54 done 21:12:23 armax: what do you mean by "sync down"? 21:12:35 talking about bugs, marun was going to file one that is tracking a breakage of the functional job 21:12:47 https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1438426 21:12:48 Launchpad bug 1438426 in neutron "Functional job setup broken by devstack" [Critical,New] - Assigned to Maru Newby (maru) 21:12:48 salv-orlando: down from oslo incubator to neutron 21:12:51 should be an easy fix 21:13:11 It's a good prompt to start pinning so it doesn't happen so easily 21:13:14 that’s the bug I was talking about 21:13:19 armax: ah ok... I was looking at it from the neutron side so it was a sync-up for me ;) 21:13:29 Ha! 21:13:49 OK, shall we move on to the rest of the agenda now? 21:13:59 Lots of fun awaits! 21:14:02 Lets move on 21:14:05 #topic Docs 21:14:11 Hello! 21:14:13 emagana: How are the Kilo docs cmoing along? 21:14:36 mestery: Moving Slow! We wanted to have more people involved on the networking guide 21:15:05 #info Docs team would like more people involved in the networking guide 21:15:09 If anyone is interested to contribute, please contact me! 21:15:20 emagana: have you considered having a docs sprint? 21:15:37 anteaya: Good idea1 21:15:39 emagana: book the sprint irc channel and pick either a 24 hour or 48 window 21:15:39 anteaya: That is a good idea! 21:15:57 Can I ask here how many will be interested? 21:16:02 Or Just over email? 21:16:03 put togehter an etherpad so that any fool who shows up can be useful and get the high priorities done 21:16:21 emagana: pick a date taht works for you and doesn't conflict with anything else major 21:16:21 anteaya: Fine! Will send it out later today! 21:16:22 anteaya: lol, "any fool" 21:16:23 :) 21:16:25 and post to the email 21:16:44 at the very leaset you end up doing all the work which is no different than now 21:16:54 you might even get some non-neutron folks to help 21:17:00 #action emagana to setup a docs sprint on the ML 21:17:04 emagana: Action item! 21:17:15 anteaya: :-) Docs team is doing the hard work! 21:17:15 emagana: talk to me after and I'll help you book teh channel 21:17:25 emagana: tat is what always happens 21:17:35 anteaya: sounds good! 21:18:18 mestery: Nothing else form my side... but as always I would like to let anyone the opportunity to share about Docs 21:18:29 emagana: Thank you sir! 21:18:44 OK, lets move on now. 42 minutes left and we have some urgent items to cover. 21:18:49 #topic Kilo-RC1 FF Specs 21:18:59 Overall, we've done a good job of merging 6 of the 10 FFEs! 21:19:07 I'd like to cover the 4 remiaing in order of difficultty 21:19:08 :) 21:19:17 #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l3-agent 21:19:29 carl_baldwin: I think this one has 1 patch left and looks likely to land soon. Thoughts? 21:19:30 so is this the most or least difficult? 21:19:35 kevinbenton: Least 21:20:01 I'll +2 that shortly, it's basically done 21:20:13 HenryG: My thoughts exactly, I think we can merge the final patch. 21:20:18 See, that one was easy! 21:20:20 I think this one is doing pretty well. 21:20:37 carl_baldwin: It should be in the merge queue soon it looks like 21:20:39 OK next one 21:20:40 #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ipv6-router 21:20:46 HenryG: I think this one looks close too. 21:20:55 yup 21:21:03 actually 21:21:08 looks like carl_baldwin pushed it into the merge queue, woot! 21:21:22 carl_baldwin: ty for that! :) 21:21:22 Thanks carl_baldwin ! 21:21:29 next up 21:21:30 #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/multiple-ipv6-prefixes 21:21:33 HenryG: This one looks much more tenuous 21:21:36 HenryG: Lots of patches left 21:21:52 It can be marked as completed, sort of 21:21:59 lol 21:22:01 Did the main patch merge? 21:22:04 yes 21:22:08 woot! 21:22:15 HenryG: Followup bugs for the remaining patches? 21:22:37 There is one other patch that would be nice to have, for "nicer to use" 21:22:56 But that can also be deferred to L if it is contentious 21:22:59 HenryG: Link? 21:23:06 mestery: I have not reviewed this work... but the follow up patches should do cleanups of smooth issues 21:23:20 salv-orlando: Cool, thanks for hte input! 21:23:28 if the follow up patches "complete" the feature by adding nice-to-have things, maybe it's better to defer 21:23:38 HenryG: ^^^^ 21:23:40 mestery: https://review.openstack.org/156360 21:23:44 HenryG: could you update the whiteboard per discussion here? 21:23:48 I would agree with salv-orlando, if hte patches just smooth things then we can be done 21:23:51 amotoki: ++ 21:24:23 Yes, will update the whiteboard 21:24:36 HenryG: OK, lets followup there, and see about deferring or marking as complete once we review that. Thanks! 21:24:51 And now, the most difficult one left: 21:24:53 #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/subnet-allocation 21:25:00 This one has spawned the API discussion on the ML 21:25:12 SO, changing subject quick 21:25:19 #topic API Discussion (core vs. extension) 21:25:21 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060200.html 21:25:32 amotoki: This is your item on the agenda I believe, thanks for starting this discussion 21:25:48 is this another debate, or can we just apply the policy decided for vlan/mtu and move on? 21:26:17 dougwig: That seems sensible to me to be honest. carl_baldwin amotoki salv-orlando, thoughts? 21:26:30 mestery: yes. I just replied to the dev list and I am fine with the shim extension and keeping the code as-is. 21:26:41 carl_baldwin: Sound ok for Kilo? 21:27:00 I think that from a "legal" perspective we should not add anything to core until a process for evolving the core has been approved 21:27:07 My hands are busy at the moment. Could someone summarize the vlan/mtu resulotion? 21:27:23 I can work with the empty/shim extension. 21:27:36 on the practical perspective, I believe that with a bit of common sense it should be easy to realize that subnetpools should be core 21:27:50 but then if someone brings the arguments like - why subnetpools and not mut? 21:27:53 sorry mtu 21:28:05 then I'd say... subnetpools should an extension too. period. 21:28:09 I'm all for being practical to be honest 21:28:23 I know hte authors of subnet pools have put in a lot of hard work 21:28:32 I think we might need a bi-weekly Neutron dev status that has ongoing feature development. Way to many people were surprised by too many things at the end of this cycle... 21:28:51 kevinbenton: Next cycle, I plan to -2 all API changes in specs, that shoudl make things easier ;) 21:28:59 mestery: that works too 21:28:59 kevinbenton: I jest of course 21:29:01 kevinbenton: But you riase a good point 21:29:08 But lets focus back on subnet pools now 21:29:11 It's the issue at hand 21:29:13 mestery: too close to truth for a funny. :) 21:29:17 kevinbenton: because there are many moving parts it's natural. For instance a guy optimized subnet show and did not realize he probably screwed subnet-list ;) 21:29:59 mestery: yeah I think that's the best decision 21:30:13 salv-orlando: Wait, waht was the best decision? 21:30:19 the API will not change anymore, forever and ever. 21:30:29 salv-orlando: lol 21:30:48 Seriously, amotoki has proposed the empty extension for this. carl_baldwin salv-orlando are you both ok with this? 21:30:49 salv-orlando: the celebrations have started 21:30:50 I think when we'll be in Vancouver you should go on whistler mountain, and then come back with the neutron API carved in stone 21:31:00 mestery: I am fine 21:31:02 salv-orlando: Do I need a bear and some flowing robes? 21:31:03 it is a nice drive 21:31:05 it will just be a lisp interpreter 21:31:06 beard 21:31:09 although a bear would be funnier 21:31:10 as far as I looked the code, it is better to keep the main code as-is at this stage of dev cycle. 21:31:13 bears too 21:31:17 salv-orlando: haha 21:32:02 I bring you 15...... crash... 10 neutron core APIs 21:32:02 OK, so lets move forward with that approach 21:32:27 #info Add emptoy extension for subnet pools per amotoki's suggestion and move forward with this in Kilo 21:32:34 I am okay with amotoki’s proposal 21:32:42 carl_baldwin: Thanks! 21:33:09 cool, I will then resume the spec on "unifying" the core and exposing "features", and we'll move the discussion there 21:33:23 salv-orlando: Yay! 21:33:29 #topic Open Discussion 21:33:33 That went much faster than I thought. 21:33:36 there won't be any summit session on this - mostly because I hope we've now realized how pointless those sessions are 21:33:37 So, Open Discussion! 21:33:48 lol 21:34:16 service chaining + naming the core/maintainers 21:34:37 more seriously, i'm wondering if there is a way we can move forward with ebtables 21:34:49 kevinbenton: For Kilo? It seems unlikely at this stage of hte release 21:34:51 get the necessary config options and dependency stuff merged 21:34:57 kevinbenton: For Liberty? Yes! Lets do it early! 21:34:58 but have it disabled 21:35:24 kevinbenton: what use would be that? ;) 21:35:44 kevinbenton: Seriously, at this stage I don't think we should add ebtables back in. But for Liberty, yes, lets do it! 21:35:49 then the 'fixes' (i.e. the functionality) can be back-ported 21:36:04 Did everyone see my email about proposing specs for Liberty that were proposed for Kilo but fialed to land code? 21:36:09 It's an expedited procedure 21:36:14 So, lets make use of it! 21:36:29 Can we talk about whether https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164466/ et al should go into the RC or defer to L? Have heard arguments on each side. 21:36:40 mestery: yes saw that. 21:36:44 right, but it just means as of Kilo, neutron shared networks can't be used :( 21:37:30 kevinbenton: I don't know how we can realistically land this at this stage 21:37:39 I think we'll look to cut the RC next week, we're that close to the end. 21:37:41 kevinbenton: what do you mean by shared networks can't be used? 21:37:43 * mestery says in an ominous voice 21:37:48 kevinbenton: do you reckon that we should consider merging that blueprint and deal with the concerns around its impl in Liberty? 21:38:03 Sukhdev: arp poisoning will still work just fine 21:38:21 Sukhdev: so basically if you have two tenants, they have to have complete trust in each other 21:38:30 Sukhdev: if they are on the same network 21:38:31 kevinbenton: everyone needs their poison. I get scotch, shared networks get ARP 21:38:53 salv-orlando :-) 21:38:55 kevinbenton: is it related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1274034 ? 21:38:56 Launchpad bug 1274034 in neutron "Neutron firewall anti-spoofing does not prevent ARP poisoning" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Juergen Brendel (jbrendel) 21:39:05 amotoki: yep 21:39:19 kevinbenton: what's your opiniopn about merging the current code? 21:39:22 kevinbenton: Thanks for clarification 21:39:24 amotoki: unfortunately iptables can't help, so an entire new filtering stack had to be integrated 21:39:25 maybe it's just me, but i don't see "shared" networks as being unusable if they're, umm, shared. 21:39:32 salv-orlando, the change is too large 21:39:44 dougwig: actually nova has been getting by fine with it for a long time 21:39:52 dougwig: because they have protection against this 21:40:07 salv-orlando: the whole chain is too big for this cycle 21:40:20 kevinbenton: Which ones do you think we can land this cycle yet? 21:40:22 it has been open for multiple cycles and we need to focus on closing it... but the change is not small... 21:40:23 kevinbenton: The framework pieces? 21:40:23 is this something that helps with using provider vlan's as the replacement for the nova-net vlan model, then? 21:40:25 salv-orlando: i was suggesting shipping all of the non-backportable components 21:40:29 ZZelle_, kevinbenton: I however do not see how we can have somehting fully functional without the whole chain 21:40:58 salv-orlando: yes, i was (gasp!) suggesting shipping a broken/disabled feature 21:41:09 salv-orlando, kevinbenton, the integration with neutron code is small so it can be merged in Lemmings and backport in Kilo 21:41:18 s/backport/backported/ 21:41:27 ZZelle_: so there are a few things that can't backport like dependencies and config options 21:41:39 not certain that's precedent we want to revive 21:41:40 kevinbenton, oups 21:41:41 that's why i was thinking we could push them this cycle 21:41:45 kevinbenton: I understand that the security concern might grant an exception to bring in more technical debt. 21:42:05 but I've spoke with markmcclain and marun before and I also understand their point 21:42:22 which markmcclain has brought up ;) 21:42:53 yeah, i suspect we will have to let it slide... 21:43:30 kevinbenton: so l2pop wasn't a solution in the end? 21:43:31 I will continue attempting to hack L2pop to eat these bad ARP requests to see if their is some kind of bandaid we can shit 21:43:34 ship* 21:43:35 whoops 21:43:41 kevinbenton: lol 21:43:49 kevinbenton: haha 21:43:57 It's a fine balance. I slightly tend to favour deferral, also because at the end of the day this was not perceived as a priority from operators, was it? 21:43:59 where is the '#strikefromlog' action 21:43:59 kevinbenton: Your autocrrect knows you too well ;) 21:44:29 kevinbenton: that was intentional, at least if you have a qerty keyboard ;) 21:44:53 ok, i'm going to stop wasting open discussion time. i was just making one last grasp at straws 21:44:57 he might just have a really filthy auto-correct db 21:45:08 kevinbenton: Thank you for caring :) 21:45:16 i will report results on l2pop hacking later 21:45:29 #info kevinbenton to report details on l2pop hacking to avoid arp poisoning 21:45:39 Any other bikes to paint or yaks to shave today? 21:45:44 speeking of security, is it possible for https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1427228 to go into the RC? As it improves metadata proxy security (when enabled) 21:45:46 Launchpad bug 1427228 in neutron "Allow to run neutron-ns-metadata-proxy as nobody" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Cedric Brandily (cbrandily) 21:45:58 mestery: how about linux bridge as the default for devstack 21:46:09 sc68cal: it doesn't work as your patch shows! 21:46:23 sc68cal: We need to fix it, likely in liberty unless the fixes are simple 21:46:38 ZZelle_: Done! 21:46:44 mestery: Should https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164466/ go into RC or defer to Liberty? Heard mixed suggestions from cores. If we do now, there will be one mech for Kilo. If we defer, there will be two. 21:46:46 i know that devstack is pushing LB as the default. are we all in favor of that as well? i'm not sure i would've learned OVS if it wasn't shoved in front of me by default. 21:46:49 mestery, great 21:47:00 sc68cal: heh 21:47:08 I think the main point is that we're trying to boil the frog 21:47:10 pc_m: Looks like amotoki and HenryG are on board with it 21:47:11 plus, wouldn't that make the install guide and default devstack differ? 21:47:12 on the holdouts to neutron 21:47:14 dougwig: rather than asking why linux bridge, I wonder why not OVS? 21:47:25 when did OVS become evil? 21:47:26 mestery: OK. 21:47:28 sc68cal: AGreed, but given we're in the FF, I don't know what we can do around LB at this point. 21:47:30 sc68cal: oh can we not have that conversation now 21:47:44 anteaya: yes, sorry :( 21:47:45 I see 15 minutes of my life wanting me back 21:47:46 sc68cal: I agree wwe should get LB up to speed, but the timing is bad now :( 21:47:53 sc68cal: FF and all, RC branch cutting, etc. 21:47:53 anteaya: lol 21:47:56 salv-orlando: agree 21:47:59 sc68cal: Hoepfully the patches are easily backportable 21:48:29 mestery: But pc_m's patch must be followed by a couple more patches to be complete. 21:48:39 can someone give a quick summary? is it that devstack wants to default to linux bridge and we let the bridge rust for the past two cycles? 21:48:42 HenryG: I marked the bug as RC1 so we can track it 21:48:48 kevinbenton: yes 21:48:58 kevinbenton: aye. the contention is that OVS is "too hard" for new users/users of nova-net. 21:48:59 good summary there for not knowing hte issue 21:49:02 HenryG: Two, one is trivial, the other is also very simple. 21:49:04 kevinbenton: sdague had a decent e-mail on the list laying out the reasoning 21:49:15 i'll grab link 21:49:17 mestery: thanks. It's just leg work, and convincing armax :) 21:49:36 HenryG: Let me work on armax 21:49:42 http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060071.html 21:49:42 HenryG: everyone has a price 21:49:49 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/060071.html 21:50:05 it is a little concerning that the default will be an untested chunk of code... but i suspect I'm rewalking an already made argument here 21:50:11 as soon as we switch to LB we will be asked about nova-net parity! 21:50:34 OK lets close thise one out 21:50:39 btw, how about neutronclient release? When is it scheduled? after merging RC1 BPs? 21:50:41 mestery: ++ 21:50:43 The ML is the right place for the rest of this discussion, please join in! 21:51:05 amotoki: I was wondering the same, amuller had requested a release pre-kilo, but I was planning a post-kilo release. 21:51:10 amotoki: Any preference? 21:51:14 please at least read the nova-net to neutron threads 21:51:33 your opinions are needed 21:51:40 mestery: my vote is after merging RC Bps. we canavoi more release :) 21:51:54 *can avoid* 21:51:59 amotoki: Excellent, we're on the same page. 21:52:09 #info mestery to role client relase post kilo BP finalizeation 21:52:17 OK, thanks for coming this week folks1 21:52:20 We're in the final push! 21:52:27 #endmeeting #endmeeting! 21:52:32 Next week we'll likely look at summit sesison planning! 21:52:34 Yay! 21:52:39 See you all on the internets! 21:52:40 #endmeeting