16:00:17 <rakhmerov> #startmeeting Mistral
16:00:18 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Nov 18 16:00:17 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is rakhmerov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:19 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:21 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'mistral'
16:00:28 <rakhmerov> hi
16:01:13 <rakhmerov> let's have another community meeting
16:02:10 <rakhmerov> meeting agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MistralAgenda
16:03:32 <akuznetsov> Hi
16:04:06 <rakhmerov> hi
16:04:49 <rakhmerov> ok, let's quickly review the previous action items
16:04:59 <rakhmerov> #topic Review action items
16:06:57 <rakhmerov> rakhmerov, akuznetsov, stanlagun, tsufiev, keep working on DSL/API Mistral specification and include all features discussed at the summit
16:08:13 <rakhmerov> it's still in progress
16:08:33 <rakhmerov> I think we need to speed this up this week
16:09:01 <tsufiev> yes, definitely :)
16:09:04 <rakhmerov> according to our Roadmap it should be done by Nov 25
16:09:20 <rakhmerov> yeah
16:10:03 <rakhmerov> so, in fact, we need to accomplish this in 2-3 day to have some time for discussions reviews
16:10:37 <rakhmerov> I'm going to contribute a significant part of my time for that starting tomorrow
16:11:18 <rakhmerov> ok, next item
16:11:34 <rakhmerov> rakhmerov, publish detailed description of "Long-running business process" use case on wiki
16:11:36 <rakhmerov> done
16:12:09 <rakhmerov> #info https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mistral/Long_Running_Business_Process
16:12:18 <rakhmerov> next
16:12:38 <rakhmerov> rakhmerov, create a list of Blueprints for Mistral features
16:12:43 <rakhmerov> it's basically done
16:13:06 <rakhmerov> I created a list of blueprints that reflect everything we've discussed so far
16:13:33 <rakhmerov> #info https://blueprints.launchpad.net/mistral
16:13:38 <rakhmerov> next item
16:14:06 <rakhmerov> ativelkov, collect the info about use case related to setting up a network
16:14:15 <rakhmerov> in progress and it's not a high priority
16:15:01 <rakhmerov> akhmerov, put together AIs and agreements achieved in HK and publish them in mailing list
16:15:08 <rakhmerov> done
16:15:26 <rakhmerov> I put everything into blueprints
16:15:36 <xwizard> cool )
16:16:08 <rakhmerov> and I'd ask you to validate them and share your feedback
16:16:09 <xwizard> I suggest to specify the priority for each blueprint
16:16:22 <rakhmerov> yeah, right :)
16:17:03 <rakhmerov> #action rakhmerov, specify priorities for blueprints
16:17:10 <rakhmerov> thanks
16:17:10 <xwizard> and... looks like I have no access to edit or add some blueprints... and I belive that other peoples too )
16:17:24 <xwizard> need to allow access to the launchpad project
16:17:58 <rakhmerov> ok, sure
16:18:00 <rakhmerov> will do
16:18:33 <rakhmerov> #action grant access to publish blueprints at Launchpad to other participants
16:18:39 <rakhmerov> ok, next item
16:19:00 <rakhmerov> gokrokve, igormarnat, akuznetsom review Roadmap and add whatever you think needs to be added in there
16:19:05 <rakhmerov> basically done
16:19:16 <rakhmerov> next item
16:19:34 <rakhmerov> rakhmerov, share Roadmap with the community to start discussing it
16:19:38 <rakhmerov> done
16:20:01 <rakhmerov> #info https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mistral/Roadmap
16:20:18 <rakhmerov> #info https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MistralRoadmap
16:20:50 <rakhmerov> I think we'll be making some changes to it but it pretty much reflects our current vision
16:21:32 <rakhmerov> if you any comments on that we can discuss it
16:21:48 <rakhmerov> rakhmerov, akuznetsov, NikolayM review https://github.com/airbnb/chronos and http://mesos.apache.org/  with regard to storing and executing distributed tasks
16:21:58 <rakhmerov> it's in progress
16:22:45 <rakhmerov> I think we can spend some time (not too much) this week just to get familiar with those things on a high level (functionality, architectural approach)
16:22:54 <akuznetsov> I am not sure that it is suitable for us, because this projects has dependencies on Apache Zookeeper
16:23:12 <rakhmerov> ook
16:23:44 <rakhmerov> did you have a chance to look at them?
16:23:49 <rakhmerov> how detailed?
16:24:33 <rakhmerov> ok, we can get back to it later
16:24:38 <rakhmerov> last item
16:24:46 <rakhmerov> rakhmerov, kuznetsov, harlowja clearly describe the high-level separation of functionality between TaskFlow and Mistral in terms of addressed use cases
16:24:58 <rakhmerov> we worked on that pretty actively
16:25:14 <rakhmerov> had lots of discussions and we create a good etherpad
16:25:34 <rakhmerov> #info https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TaskFlowAndMistral
16:26:11 <rakhmerov> I think it's mostly clear what's in common and what the differences are between these projects
16:26:54 <rakhmerov> we pretty much agreed that they have some overlap but the processing models are significantly different
16:27:08 <rakhmerov> and applicable for different use cases
16:27:42 <rakhmerov> again, if you have any additional thoughts please write them in there (etherpad)
16:28:01 <rakhmerov> so ok, we have a few more things to discuss today
16:28:07 <rakhmerov> let's move on to the next topic
16:28:38 <rakhmerov> #topic Mistral PoC scope
16:30:12 <rakhmerov> I created a blueprint for Mistral PoC at Launchpad
16:30:29 <rakhmerov> where I listed out on a high level what needs to done
16:30:41 <rakhmerov> hm, Launchpad seems to be down for me
16:31:00 <rakhmerov> could you guys try to open https://blueprints.launchpad.net/mistral?
16:31:15 <ativelkov> it works
16:31:20 <tsufiev> works
16:31:36 <rakhmerov> hm, problems on my side
16:31:46 <radix> I just subscribed to the scheduling bp
16:31:57 <rakhmerov> ok
16:32:03 <rakhmerov> ok, works for me now
16:32:05 <rakhmerov> here it is
16:32:08 <rakhmerov> #info https://blueprints.launchpad.net/mistral/+spec/mistral-poc
16:32:50 <rakhmerov> please take a look at it and let us know if you have suggestions on what should be included/removed
16:33:27 <tnurlygayanov> we plan to use two cli clients?
16:33:56 <rakhmerov> that's a different topic :)
16:34:07 <rakhmerov> but possibly yes
16:34:16 <tnurlygayanov> so, it is about blueprints :)
16:34:23 <rakhmerov> and it's not going to be in PoC most likely
16:34:36 <rakhmerov> tnurlygayanov, yes
16:35:24 <tnurlygayanov> ok )
16:35:49 <rakhmerov> the term "CLI" for the second one (for launching a worker process) may not be very good but basically the idea is to create a command line tool to simplify configuring and launching a worker process
16:35:55 <tnurlygayanov> we can probably move some information for each blueprint on the wiki
16:36:08 <rakhmerov> we have it there :)
16:36:36 <rakhmerov> #info https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mistral/Blueprints
16:37:00 <rakhmerov> they currently don't contain much but we'll be populating them as we work
16:37:45 <tnurlygayanov> cool
16:38:26 <rakhmerov> well, I'm looking at the blueprint now and I would add one more item:
16:38:44 <tnurlygayanov> do we have anything for discussion? When we plan to start write the first line of code? )
16:39:01 <rakhmerov> demo worker
16:39:20 <rakhmerov> well, we already have several :)
16:40:39 <stanlagun> i suggest not to use word 'worker'
16:40:46 <rakhmerov> but today we're supposed to start writing it really intensively
16:41:02 <rakhmerov> stanlagun, what would be your suggestion?
16:41:17 <stanlagun> demo app
16:41:30 <rakhmerov> I don't like it either since it may confuse people (as if Mistral had dedicated workers)
16:41:31 <rakhmerov> hm..
16:41:39 <stanlagun> worker means something dedicated
16:41:44 <stanlagun> more like in celery
16:41:53 <rakhmerov> yes, I know
16:42:00 <tnurlygayanov> we have blueprint for worker cli, but have no blueprint for wroker. What is it?
16:42:23 <tnurlygayanov> *worker
16:42:26 <rakhmerov> well, a worker is supposed to be created using worker cli :)
16:42:52 <stanlagun> worker=worker cli=demo app?
16:42:56 <rakhmerov> like stanlagun said, "worker" is not something specific to Mistral
16:43:11 <stanlagun> its confusing
16:43:14 <rakhmerov> yes, something like that
16:43:28 <rakhmerov> we can call it in another way
16:43:47 <rakhmerov> I just think "demo app" doesn't reflect it's meaning
16:44:05 <tnurlygayanov> what this "worker" will do?
16:44:19 <rakhmerov> it will process task actions
16:44:47 <rakhmerov> coming from Mistral via some channel like rabbit or HTTP
16:45:05 <rakhmerov> "action handler" or "handler" may be?
16:45:31 <stanlagun> usually Mistral client app is the worker. Demo app is just an app that uses Mistral. And it is worker for its own tasks
16:46:02 <stanlagun> The point is that app is not about task handling as it is not its main purpose
16:46:19 <rakhmerov> stanlagun, I agree but I believe that may be confusing for people too :)
16:46:41 <rakhmerov> hm...
16:46:43 <rakhmerov> thinking
16:47:04 <rakhmerov> how about "handler application"?
16:47:07 <stanlagun> Just don't want people to think that they need to craft special workers every time
16:47:07 <tsufiev> i'd suggest call it 'demo client'
16:47:19 <tsufiev> because this app is also a client for Mistral
16:47:21 <rakhmerov> I just want to make it clear that this is something that handles actions
16:47:21 <tnurlygayanov> so, it is mistral-agent )
16:47:33 <rakhmerov> app is too general
16:48:11 <rakhmerov> tsufiev, "because this app is also a client for Mistral" is not really true
16:48:24 <rakhmerov> it may be but not necessary
16:49:14 <rakhmerov> ok, let's postpone take it out of this meeting
16:49:50 <rakhmerov> #action rakhmerov, stanlagun, come up with a good name for "worker" (so that it wouldn't be confusing)
16:49:58 <rakhmerov> #topic Blueprints
16:50:16 <rakhmerov> I think we've been discussing that for a while
16:50:22 <stanlagun> The difference is that demo app does something valuable and uses Mistral to achieve its goal. It handles task actions for that matter. Handler app is the app dedicated to task handling that has no business value of its own
16:50:51 <rakhmerov> well
16:50:59 <rakhmerov> consider the following scenario
16:51:31 <rakhmerov> say we've created a PoC and CLI to work with Mistral
16:51:50 <rakhmerov> so that I can cal: mistral upload mytaskgraph.yaml
16:52:16 <rakhmerov> mistral start-workflow 12 "create_env"
16:52:32 <rakhmerov> I don't have anything what you call app here
16:52:41 <rakhmerov> I'm just using CLI to start my workflow
16:53:33 <rakhmerov> I agree it's not something given from the real life but anyway, moving forward we'll have use cases like this
16:53:33 <tsufiev> but who will do the actual work of creating env in that case?
16:53:35 <stanlagun> I think there cannot be generic client that can start just any given workflow
16:54:33 <stanlagun> Apps know how to handle some specific workflows that does something meaningful. So that would be not just CLI but a normal app
16:54:41 <rakhmerov> tsufiev, it can be heat or anything else that we can access via AMQP or HTTP
16:55:12 <stanlagun> well it can be true in some cases
16:55:16 <stanlagun> but not for now
16:55:27 <rakhmerov> stanlagun, I see your point here
16:55:54 <stanlagun> anyway yiu cannot make generic CLI client. Just an app for special cases of workflows
16:56:26 <rakhmerov> not sure I'm understanding you here, seriously :)
16:56:54 <rakhmerov> why can't we have CLI that we could use just to, for example, upload a start a workflow?
16:57:24 <rakhmerov> the work may be done by real applications but a point where we start it can be CLI easily, why not?
16:57:33 <rakhmerov> I'm not saying it's a typical use case
16:57:46 <rakhmerov> but in some cases we can use it
16:57:53 <stanlagun> we could have. But this would be management colnsole :)
16:57:58 <stanlagun> console
16:58:18 <rakhmerov> :)
16:58:34 <stanlagun> we don't really need management console for PoC
16:58:35 <rakhmerov> yes, but for me it would be convenient to have CLI
16:58:43 <stanlagun> management CLI
16:58:46 <stanlagun> anyway
16:58:54 <rakhmerov> yes, agree here
16:58:58 <stanlagun> Mistral admin
16:59:05 <rakhmerov> I was talking actually not about PoC, sorry
16:59:07 <rakhmerov> ok
16:59:08 <rakhmerov> 1 min
16:59:18 <rakhmerov> let's wrap it up
16:59:32 <rakhmerov> I'll see you soon guys, bye
16:59:37 <rakhmerov> #endmeeting