16:01:02 <inc0> #startmeeting Kolla
16:01:08 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Nov 16 16:01:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is inc0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:09 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:01:11 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'kolla'
16:01:13 <egonzalez90> woot o/
16:01:23 <inc0> hello everyone:)
16:01:28 <duonghq> woot/
16:01:30 <rhallisey__> helo
16:01:30 <sp__> hi all
16:01:31 <jascott1> hello
16:01:33 <inc0> #topic w00t for Kolla rollcall
16:01:33 <duonghq> o/
16:01:37 <Jeffrey4l> 0/
16:01:39 <coolsvap> o/
16:01:40 <srwilkers> woot o/
16:01:40 <jascott1> woot
16:01:43 <egonzalez90> w00t
16:01:47 <inc0> woot:)
16:01:49 <duonghq> wo0t///
16:02:23 <inc0> ok, let's move on, I bet this will be full time meeting
16:02:30 <inc0> #topic Announcements
16:02:41 <sbezverk> o/
16:02:46 <portdirect> o/
16:02:46 <inc0> 1. Kolla ansible is up! Our repo is split at last
16:02:47 <qwang> o/
16:02:58 <inc0> we will cover logistics around that later in the meeting
16:03:14 <inc0> 2. 4.0.0b1 aka ocata-1 releases this week
16:03:37 <inc0> any other announcements?
16:03:56 <inc0> ok, let's move on to hard stuff
16:04:02 <inc0> #topic repo split
16:04:09 <mliima> \o
16:04:20 <inc0> #link https://github.com/openstack/kolla-ansible
16:04:30 <inc0> we have it:)
16:04:43 <sdake> o/
16:04:55 <inc0> as you can see this is copy of kolla itself from weekend
16:05:22 <inc0> today I'll propose patch removing ansible dir from kolla repo
16:05:47 <Jeffrey4l> inc0, can we do this until we fixed the gate?
16:06:04 <inc0> Jeffrey4l, can we fix gate in kolla-ansible?
16:06:25 <Jeffrey4l> in ml, i propose leave the deploy gate in kolla.
16:06:39 <sdake> inc0 i already did the removal of ansible from kolla repo
16:06:47 <qwang> the patch is there https://review.openstack.org/#/c/398025/
16:06:56 <v1k0d3n> sorry, here now
16:07:05 <inc0> ahh missed that, sorry sdake
16:07:13 <inc0> Jeffrey4l, no, we need to remove ansible asap
16:07:19 <Jeffrey4l> ok.
16:07:21 <mliima> i propose remove docker from kolla-ansible
16:07:24 <inc0> because people will keep pushing code there
16:07:28 <mliima> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/398320/
16:07:34 <inc0> mliima, that on the other hand will have to wair
16:07:44 <inc0> until we prepare zuul-cloner
16:07:51 <inc0> or docker registry in infra
16:08:00 <mliima> ok inc0
16:08:10 <inc0> as we can build without ansible, we can't deploy without build
16:08:38 <mliima> ok
16:08:59 <inc0> on that note, we'll create zuul-clone of kolla in kolla-ansible
16:09:13 <inc0> we can also do git submodule of kolla in kolla ansible
16:09:19 <inc0> to keep installation easy
16:09:28 <inc0> which means we also need to change our docs
16:09:45 <inc0> as deployment procedure will be slightly different
16:10:26 <inc0> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-repo-split
16:10:45 <inc0> let's use this etherpad to list out all the logistics and cleanups we need to make
16:10:46 <sdake> inc0 our docs don't recommend deploying gfrom git
16:10:57 <inc0> pip will be diffetent too
16:11:03 <sdake> inc0 they recommend deploying from pip becasuse of the pbr version problem
16:11:18 <sdake> git submodules only help developers
16:11:24 <inc0> and really, I personally find this an abomination that it's not equivalent
16:11:29 <sdake> pretty sure everyone thats a dev can check out two repos :)
16:11:36 <sdake> inc0 feel free to fix it
16:11:40 <inc0> but that's discussion for another day
16:11:54 <sdake> inc0 did best I could with the expert resources (dhellman in particular) available to me
16:13:03 <sdake> Jeffrey4l i thought i saw christmas there for a moment ;)
16:13:30 <inc0> let's focus on todo guys for now
16:13:40 <inc0> we need this list to be comprehensive to distribute work effectively
16:13:48 <Jeffrey4l> hmm. sorry, do not get the point :/
16:14:18 <sdake> Jeffrey4l nm :)
16:16:29 <sp__> sdake: would kolla-k8s arch spec is still open for input ?
16:19:00 <coolsvap> did I lost connection or meeting is actually stalled?
16:19:08 <srwilkers> im still here
16:19:11 <inc0> no, we are in etherpad
16:19:20 <inc0> doing todo list for cleanups
16:19:27 <inc0> 10 more minutes
16:19:30 <sdake> coolsvap we are brainstorming - not sure what the window is
16:19:35 <coolsvap> sorry missed the etherpad
16:19:45 <sdake> sp__ yes its open until merged
16:20:05 <egonzalez90> coolsvap: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-repo-split
16:20:18 <coolsvap> thanks egonzalez90 got there
16:20:20 <sdake> sp_ reference https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes/blob/master/specs/README.rst
16:20:47 <rhallisey> sp_, yes it's still open
16:21:14 <sp__> thanks sdake and rhallisey for info and link
16:22:11 <portdirect> hey could you give me a ping when your back
16:22:21 <portdirect> (from etherpad)
16:26:42 <mordred> inc0: sup?
16:27:07 <inc0> 2 more minutes in our brainstorm topic (working on ehterpad now) and we'll move on to how gate kolla-ansible
16:27:19 <inc0> but I appreciate having you around:) thanks
16:27:46 <inc0> I'll use this time to give you full context mordred
16:28:01 <inc0> so as you probably know, we split kolla into kolla and kolla-ansible
16:28:06 <inc0> we also have kolla-kubernetes
16:28:13 <inc0> kolla now holds all the images
16:28:38 <sdake> inc0 you mean gate kolla :)
16:28:45 <inc0> sdake, hold on
16:28:55 <inc0> that'll be topic part;)
16:29:03 <sdake> oh right
16:29:05 <inc0> just giving mordred state we are now
16:29:33 <mordred> inc0: nod. kolla has the images, kolla-ansible and kolla-k8s want to consume them, yeah?
16:29:39 <inc0> yeah
16:29:41 <inc0> but...
16:29:45 <duonghq> portdirect, ping
16:29:52 <inc0> #topic gates in brave new world
16:29:55 <portdirect> cheers
16:30:08 <inc0> so mordred fungi and everyone, we want 2 things really
16:30:23 <inc0> kolla-ansible and k8s needs to build images today
16:30:30 <inc0> as we don't have docker registry for them
16:30:52 <inc0> so I expect to use zuul cloner there to pull kolla and build images locally
16:31:15 <inc0> but at the end of the day, we would like to have some smoketest gates in kolla to see if our deployments hasn't been broken after a change
16:31:45 <inc0> so correct me if I'm wrong, but zuul cloner will allow cross repo gates as in adding gates from kolla to kolla-ansible, but not other way around right?
16:32:00 <mordred> they can totally be bi-directional
16:32:22 <inc0> so zuul clones kolla to kolla-ansible and kolla-ansible to kolla?
16:32:28 <mordred> so you can say "this job needs the kolla and kolla-ansible repos" then the job will clone both repos in the appropriate state and will run the job content
16:32:49 <fungi> yeah, it's just a convenience utility to clone arbitrary refs of an arbitrary number of repos, taking advantage of local repo caches and refnames provided by zuul in our ci context
16:33:01 <mordred> let's say there is a job called "gate-kolla-images"
16:33:11 <mordred> that job will be configured to clone kolla, kolla-ansible and kolla-kubernetes
16:33:15 <magicboiz> Hi
16:33:33 <mordred> and then in the content of the job, the job will expect those three repos to exist and will do $stuff
16:33:52 <mordred> then, you can configure the kolla repo to run that job in its gate pipeline, and you can also configure kolla-ansible to do the same
16:34:15 <fungi> (and kolla-kubernetes too if you want)
16:34:17 <mordred> yah
16:34:27 <inc0> yeah we will want to have smoketest for both
16:34:37 <inc0> by smoketest I assume gates we have today;)
16:34:59 <inc0> ok, so short term, we need to configure zuul-cloner on both ends
16:35:07 <inc0> and keep gates working as they work today
16:35:26 <inc0> that will also allow us to remove docker directory from kolla-ansible immediatly
16:35:51 <inc0> #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/zuul/cloner.html
16:36:18 <inc0> Jeffrey4l, sdake, others - is this solution acceptable?
16:36:28 <Jeffrey4l> yep. i like that.
16:36:34 <coolsvap> +1
16:36:43 <sdake> sorry two meetings at once - leemme catch up
16:36:47 <sdake> DST FTL
16:36:48 <egonzalez90> looks fine
16:36:50 <inc0> I would refrain of having full fledged deploy gates in kolla as gates will take forever and still be not-voting
16:37:14 <inc0> but our current gates are ok for that purpose imho
16:37:15 <mliima> looks good
16:37:17 <sdake> yup lgtm
16:37:26 <sdake> infra cats are experts, follow their lead imo :)
16:37:38 <inc0> so we just don't change anything aside of making build gates voting (yes, yay, I think we can do that(
16:38:07 <sdake> i think mordred suggested having them right?
16:38:47 <sdake> the reason for corss repo gating is to make sure the kolla imgaes are GTG when committed
16:39:04 <sdake> the only plalce I know to do that is in the kolla repo
16:39:08 <mordred> yah - the main thing is just to make sure that the build job does the right thing with the multiple repos
16:39:10 <mordred> but yes
16:39:16 <inc0> so another question since you're here:)
16:39:27 * mordred hides
16:39:28 <inc0> (can we wrap up this? I think we know what to do)
16:39:33 <fungi> yeah, i mostly didn't want to see you roll out something confusing involving hacky git submodules that subsequently locks you out of a lot of convenient options from better testing across your repos
16:39:36 <inc0> #topic git submodule
16:39:45 <mordred> run away screaming
16:39:45 <inc0> so, we'll use zuul cloner
16:39:50 <sdake> fungi ;)
16:39:57 <mordred> \o/
16:40:24 <inc0> but there are people asking for submodule in kolla-ansible for kolla just for purpose of easier installation for users
16:40:37 <inc0> git clone kolla-ansible --recursive and you have all you need locally
16:40:42 <fungi> git submodules are not a substitute for an installer
16:40:51 <portdirect> +1
16:41:04 <wirehead_> heh
16:41:17 <inc0> I'm asking because other teams well, uses it like that it seems;)
16:42:15 <inc0> I guess putting kolla into requirements.txt of kolla-ansible should do the trick?
16:42:15 <sdake> fungi right - we use pip to install
16:42:35 <inc0> sdake, everyone uses something different tbh
16:42:47 <sdake> well devs use git obviously
16:42:54 <inc0> that's my point
16:42:56 <sdake> operators use pip
16:43:02 <Jeffrey4l> other project like puppet or openstack ansible are different from kolla. they depend on the code itself. But kolla-ansible depend on the docker images which kolla produced.
16:43:31 <inc0> you're right Jeffrey4l, so we don't make any dependency at all?
16:43:48 <inc0> and just ask people to install both projects separately?
16:43:49 <Jeffrey4l> i prefer to no.
16:43:52 <mordred> sorry - laptop crashed
16:44:06 <Jeffrey4l> on the deployment node, why i must install kolla and its dependency?
16:44:07 <inc0> that's another approach
16:44:15 <Jeffrey4l> ansibe is enough.
16:44:16 <portdirect> i think the seperation between containers, and deployment makes sense i think from an ops perspective (ie no submodule) - but thats just me.
16:44:17 <inc0> which I actually like
16:44:44 <inc0> anyone is against having completely unrelated projects as far as installation goes?
16:45:03 <sdake> inc0 could you restate the question, it didn't pass my parser
16:45:25 <Jeffrey4l> if we add kolla-ansible as kolla' submodule, how about the kolla-kubernetes projects?
16:45:25 <inc0> sdake, when kolla-ansible is installed in any way, kolla is not
16:45:30 <sdake> wfm
16:45:41 <inc0> ok, for now we keep things totally separate then
16:45:47 <egonzalez90> kolla-ansible depends on an image built by kolla, not depends of kolla at all
16:45:47 <duonghq> maybe we need separate "build-node" from "deployment-node"
16:46:06 <inc0> we can
16:46:12 <inc0> and it's quite elegant tbh
16:46:24 <Jeffrey4l> duonghq, +1
16:46:28 <mordred> if you do wind up wanting to tie things together, I would strongly suggest that submodules will cause you more pain than they will solve, so trying other approaches first, I would suggest, will make you all much happier
16:46:30 <egonzalez90> +1
16:46:43 <mliima> duonghq, +1
16:46:45 <inc0> mordred, got it, thanks for warning
16:46:48 <portdirect> mordred: +1 to that :)
16:46:51 <mordred> cool.
16:46:52 <inc0> but it seems for now we keep things totally separate
16:47:15 <mordred> if you do end up getting to the place where it becomes essential - ping us, there are additional features/gotchas in gerrit-land :)
16:47:23 <mordred> but I like where you're going  :)
16:48:01 <inc0> ok
16:48:08 <inc0> anything else on that note?
16:48:20 <inc0> #topic open discussion
16:48:28 <inc0> still have few minutes
16:49:21 <Jeffrey4l> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/107429.html
16:49:26 <rhallisey> the spec
16:49:35 <rhallisey> it's almost done
16:49:41 <rhallisey> will have another review up soon
16:49:42 <Jeffrey4l> we need push some goals for ocata.
16:50:23 <Jeffrey4l> it breaks our release.
16:50:25 <Jeffrey4l> https://review.openstack.org/398433
16:50:27 <Jeffrey4l> block
16:51:13 <portdirect> rhallisey: thanks for keeping on top of it!
16:51:19 <rhallisey> no problem
16:51:21 <inc0> it doesn't seem to be the case for us tho
16:51:31 <rhallisey> just be sure everyone gets their comments in
16:51:42 <wirehead_> :)
16:52:15 <portdirect> also the impromptu hangouts have been really usefull - I really think we should keep them up when we hit issues
16:53:10 <portdirect> gotta meeting, so need to head - catch you guys later
16:53:34 <inc0> ok, I guess we're done for today?:)
16:53:39 <duonghq> woot
16:53:39 <inc0> for meeting*
16:53:46 <inc0> today is still ongoing, don't stop working
16:53:50 <sdake> re impromptu meetings
16:53:53 <sdake> can we please schedule them
16:53:56 <sdake> if we are going to have them
16:54:02 <sdake> they are not inclusive
16:54:03 <sdake> TIA :)
16:54:20 <inc0> schedule impromptu meetings? that's not impromptu
16:54:27 <sdake> right oxymoron
16:54:41 <sdake> the problem with improtu meetings is not everyone is aorund
16:54:47 <inc0> we jump on hangouts when we can't communicate over irc
16:54:54 <sdake> 4 guys in a meeting do not make up the communities best judgement
16:55:03 <inc0> but they can get into agreement
16:55:24 <sdake> right - then gotta convince everyone else
16:55:30 <inc0> not everyone
16:55:56 <sdake> not inclusive...
16:56:10 <sdake> i constantly have conflicts with the spur of the moment hangouts
16:56:22 <inc0> we had something called "liberum veto" in Polish history, where single person could throw out voting...spoiler alert - didn't end well
16:57:00 <inc0> anyway, will be reflected in spec and totally optional
16:57:03 <sdake> i'm not asking for much
16:57:09 <inc0> so feel free to drop it there
16:57:45 <inc0> anyway, I think we exhausted this meetings time
16:57:54 <inc0> thanks everyone for comming!
16:58:03 <inc0> #endmeeting kolla