15:00:00 <TheJulia> #startmeeting ironic
15:00:01 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Jan 27 15:00:00 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is TheJulia. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:02 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:04 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ironic'
15:00:04 <TheJulia> o/ everyone!
15:00:18 <rpioso> \o
15:00:20 <etingof> \o
15:00:24 <hjensas> o/
15:00:27 <rpittau> o/
15:00:27 <bdodd> o/
15:00:28 <TheJulia> Our agenda for this morning can be found on the wiki
15:00:31 <TheJulia> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic
15:00:36 <rloo> o/
15:00:40 <stendulker> o/
15:00:59 <TheJulia> #topic Announcements/Reminders
15:01:16 <TheJulia> #info OpenStack Ironic Mid-cycle Meetup, 25-26 February 2020, CERN, Geneva, Switzerland
15:01:17 <jroll> \o
15:01:18 <iurygregory> o/
15:01:18 <TheJulia> #link https://indico.cern.ch/event/863986/
15:01:41 <arne_wiebalck> o/
15:01:50 <TheJulia> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-ussuri-midcycle
15:01:53 <mgoddard> \o
15:02:27 <TheJulia> #info Opendev + PTG Vancouver, Dates: Mon, Jun 8, 2020 - Thu, Jun 11, 2020
15:02:52 <dtantsur> o/
15:03:20 <TheJulia> Early Bird tickets are for sale now!
15:03:23 <TheJulia> #link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/opendev-ptg-vancouver-2020-tickets-88923270897
15:04:00 <TheJulia> #info Python 3.8 non-voting jobs are being added to Ussuri
15:04:02 <TheJulia> #link https://review.opendev.org/693401
15:04:03 <patchbot> patch 693401 - openstack-zuul-jobs - Add non-voting tox py38 jobs to Ussuri templates (MERGED) - 3 patch sets
15:04:13 <dtantsur> just 6 months in advance \o/
15:04:18 <dtantsur> (this is re tickets, not jobs)
15:04:26 <TheJulia> Does anyone have anything else to bring up for announcements/reminders?
15:04:41 <TheJulia> This is actually a good thing :)
15:06:30 * TheJulia guesses we're good to proceed
15:07:15 <TheJulia> We appear to have had no action items last week, so I think we can skip that section and move into subteam status updates
15:08:28 <TheJulia> #topic Review subteam status reports
15:08:52 <TheJulia> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard
15:08:55 <TheJulia> Line 278
15:10:30 <TheJulia> Regarding the Bare Metal Program/SIG whitepaper, I did go back and forth with the foundation in email last week, and I have a few more emails to read. Seems like there was a disconnect that occurred :(
15:11:13 <arne_wiebalck> ok
15:11:51 <arne_wiebalck> maybe we should just try to polish the rest as we do not move fwd since a while now
15:12:27 * arne_wiebalck certainly used this as a excuse to not do anything :)
15:12:42 <TheJulia> arne_wiebalck: that is an option. I'm still trying to get the RH case study approved for release :( I'll have to follow-up this week on that again
15:12:53 <arne_wiebalck> ok, thanks!
15:13:06 <TheJulia> Looks like tzumainn's mutlitenancy related work could use some reviews
15:14:05 <TheJulia> etingof: looks like your needing the spec reviewed?
15:14:23 <etingof> very much so!
15:15:20 <TheJulia> arne_wiebalck: re software raid: are we just needing the ipa patches rebased
15:15:47 <arne_wiebalck> TheJulia: there is some more to do, I think
15:15:55 * dtantsur wants to look into device selection for software RAID
15:16:09 <arne_wiebalck> part of the functionality has been moved to another patch
15:16:17 <arne_wiebalck> I think
15:16:27 <arne_wiebalck> also: I did not yet test this on a real machine
15:16:37 <arne_wiebalck> I'll try to do this this week
15:16:49 <arne_wiebalck> dtantsur: ++
15:16:58 <TheJulia> If we can get the section updated with a current status, I think that would help so we can focus reviews
15:17:41 <TheJulia> On the subject of v6 CI, still not had time to revisit :(
15:18:11 <arne_wiebalck> iurygregory: your UEFI patch has taken some functionality from the UEIF RAID patch, nno?
15:18:30 <iurygregory> arne_wiebalck, only the part to look for partition
15:18:44 <iurygregory> in utils.py
15:18:55 <arne_wiebalck> right, but this then needs to be taken out of xXraphXx 's pacth set
15:19:20 <arne_wiebalck> I have some other UEFI things to do and can fold this in
15:19:26 <arne_wiebalck> I hope
15:19:30 <arne_wiebalck> :)
15:20:06 <openstackgerrit> Merged openstack/bifrost master: Use upper-constraints everywhere in ironic installation  https://review.opendev.org/703998
15:20:49 <arne_wiebalck> the retirement spec is mostly implemented, if someone is interested to review (it's quite straight forward I think)
15:21:04 <arne_wiebalck> Thanks rpittau for the first comments!
15:21:15 <TheJulia> arne_wiebalck: awesome
15:21:19 <rpittau> arne_wiebalck: my pleasure :)
15:21:53 <arne_wiebalck> kudos to dtantsur who delivered the blue print in fact
15:22:04 <TheJulia> Are we good to move to Priorities for the week?
15:22:28 <iurygregory> arne_wiebalck, yeah I pushed in a separate patch after talking with him =)
15:22:41 <dtantsur> did it? :)
15:22:46 <dtantsur> did I? :)
15:23:24 <arne_wiebalck> I studied your node protection patch :)
15:23:29 <TheJulia> heh
15:23:47 <dtantsur> ah, right, you mentioned it the other day :)
15:23:51 * arne_wiebalck thinks "studied" sounds so much nicer than "copied"
15:24:22 * TheJulia concurs
15:24:31 <TheJulia> So lets move on to priorities
15:24:41 <TheJulia> #topic Priorities for the coming week
15:24:57 <TheJulia> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard
15:24:59 <TheJulia> Line 169
15:25:37 * TheJulia cleans up the bifrost entry
15:25:51 <openstackgerrit> Merged openstack/sushy master: Add Task Monitor support for async operations  https://review.opendev.org/670360
15:26:34 <TheJulia> Looks like there is only one outstanding mergable patch in that series, but we stil need to get the other jobs working
15:26:44 <TheJulia> I know there are a few others out there in review though
15:27:17 <rpittau> Centos 8 is very close, at least with tinyipa
15:27:24 <dtantsur> yeah, this ^^^
15:27:43 <dtantsur> rpittau: well, DIB images are known to work for CentOS 8, using it as a base OS is a problem :)
15:28:19 <TheJulia> awesome
15:28:22 <rpittau> it's a new major release for a reason :)
15:28:36 <TheJulia> Looks like some of the revisions marked approved have merged
15:28:38 <TheJulia> Marking them as such
15:29:53 <TheJulia> Is anyone aware of any additional patches that should be added to the list?
15:30:40 <arne_wiebalck> I added the scoped rules for introspection, hope that's ok.
15:31:53 <TheJulia> I noticed, and tagged dmitry on it. It looks okay to me, but i would really like a practical use example in the documentation
15:32:11 <arne_wiebalck> TheJulia: agreed
15:32:32 <dtantsur> it's on my list, just never got to it (imagine the size of the list, given that it barely shrinks..)
15:32:58 <arne_wiebalck> no worries, not urgent :)
15:32:59 <openstackgerrit> Merged openstack/bifrost master: Set Ansible default version to 2.8  https://review.opendev.org/703633
15:33:11 <TheJulia> dtantsur: yeah, the lists never get smaller :(
15:33:50 <TheJulia> I guess I'm good with the priorities, we just need to update the notes/remove the items as stuff merges
15:35:09 <TheJulia> Did we ever get to have ops midcycle feedback? I know johnthetubaguy is not here
15:36:28 <TheJulia> So moving on, I guess we can skip baremetal sig and move directly to Open Discussion?
15:36:31 <TheJulia> arne_wiebalck: ^^?
15:36:37 <arne_wiebalck> yes
15:36:45 <dtantsur> ++
15:37:38 <TheJulia> #topic Open discussion
15:38:00 <TheJulia> So I'm thinking there should be coffee handed out at the beginning of ironic meetings? Or maybe a pre-meeting coffee reminder? :)
15:38:07 <TheJulia> Just to wake everyone up :)
15:38:21 <dtantsur> so, a thought (caused by downstream discussion). with iPXE we can have a hybrid legacy/UEFI boot environment. shall we implement it?
15:38:25 <dtantsur> also coffee++
15:38:50 <arne_wiebalck> dtantsur: could you elaborate what this means?
15:38:50 <TheJulia> dtantsur: do you mean secure boot?
15:38:55 <dtantsur> mmm, no
15:39:05 <dtantsur> currently an operator has to choose a boot mode for a node
15:39:07 <TheJulia> Then clarification required
15:39:13 <TheJulia> oh!
15:39:19 <dtantsur> if they fail to (and the driver cannot enforce a boot mode), the boot will fail
15:39:32 <openstackgerrit> Iury Gregory Melo Ferreira proposed openstack/ironic master: WIP - Native zuulv3 grenade job for ironic  https://review.opendev.org/703098
15:39:33 <dtantsur> actually, for ironic-inspector we tend to build environments that happily support both legacy and UEFI
15:39:34 <arne_wiebalck> dtantsur: right, I had this this week :)
15:39:45 <dtantsur> we could do it for cleaning/deployment with iPXE
15:39:48 <TheJulia> so offer pointers to both options based on arch?
15:39:52 <dtantsur> yeah
15:40:07 <TheJulia> That seems logical, we've been doing similar stuff in standalone for a while
15:40:11 <TheJulia> I'm kind of surprised we've not done it
15:40:22 <dtantsur> line in https://opendev.org/openstack/puppet-ironic/src/branch/master/templates/inspector_dnsmasq_http.erb
15:40:37 <TheJulia> I only asked about secure boot because someone downstream also asked me about secure boot and that is one of those subjects I kind of want to avoid like the plague since nobody will like the answer
15:40:42 <dtantsur> :D
15:40:57 <dtantsur> I suspect one day we'll have to do it...
15:41:00 <TheJulia> "You want secure boot.... " "uhh... have you gotten MSFT to sign your ipxe.efi binary?"
15:41:16 <TheJulia> "What?!? why can't I use shim?!?"
15:41:18 <dtantsur> well, we can go easier on them: "have you inserted your keys in your UEFI ROM"?
15:41:23 <dtantsur> :D
15:41:37 <TheJulia> ++ and sign the ipxe loader!
15:41:51 <dtantsur> I mean... you can do it, right? and then we can support it.
15:41:56 <etingof> let's do virtual media boot instead
15:42:01 <TheJulia> etingof: ++
15:42:14 * dtantsur hopes we don't have to sign the virtual media ISO
15:42:24 <dtantsur> but yes, it is a pretty valid answer
15:42:30 <TheJulia> dtantsur: you can actually.... but only on certian hardware
15:42:32 <dtantsur> maybe we should try it and see if it works out of box
15:42:58 <TheJulia> I don't think the iso needs to be signed, just the kernel/shim/grub on the iso
15:42:58 <dtantsur> TheJulia: well, let us call it commercial advantage of "certain hardware" :)
15:43:13 <TheJulia> dtantsur: ++
15:43:37 <dtantsur> I do think we should try it with virtual media on one of our labs and if it works - document it
15:43:53 <TheJulia> ++
15:43:59 * etingof never heard of the necessity to sign ISOs
15:44:16 <TheJulia> yolanda: ^ might be a good path to follow
15:44:47 * TheJulia wonders if we have anything else to discuss or plot this morning
15:44:53 <tzumainn> hi! just wanted to mention the node lessee spec again - https://review.opendev.org/701061 - mostly curious if, at a high-level, people think I'm completely off base in the approach (in which case I can start coming up with a new one)
15:44:53 <patchbot> patch 701061 - ironic-specs - Create node lessee field - 2 patch sets
15:45:17 <dtantsur> tzumainn: I'm nearly slacking off on it to wait for the midcycle :)
15:45:37 <tzumainn> dtantsur, that's fair too!
15:45:38 <dtantsur> I'd like to move a bit more careful than with owner to avoid making the same mistakes
15:46:09 <mgoddard> btw we have johnthetubaguy here to discuss the ops meetup
15:46:18 <TheJulia> o/ johnthetubaguy
15:46:29 <johnthetubaguy> hey
15:46:33 <tzumainn> dtantsur, yep, definitely - I'd like to tie it in with allocation from the start and wire it into... other stuff I might not know about
15:46:38 <TheJulia> tzumainn: dtantsur: yeah, leasee just becomes another layer of complexity :\
15:46:50 <TheJulia> johnthetubaguy: How was the ops midcycle?
15:46:53 <johnthetubaguy> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LON-2020-OPS-AGENDA
15:47:04 <johnthetubaguy> so I think it was generally really good
15:47:41 <johnthetubaguy> about 50% UK, 40% other bits of Europe, 10% others
15:47:41 <TheJulia> Any takeaways for the ironic community? Feedback? needs? etc?
15:47:47 <TheJulia> nice!
15:47:53 <johnthetubaguy> so we had a session
15:48:02 <johnthetubaguy> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/LON-2020-OPS-BARE-METAL
15:48:23 <johnthetubaguy> a big bit of feedback was where to get started and what to read
15:48:58 <rloo> looking at etherpad, "Sometimes hard to know where to report issues". Curious to know where they looked, or where we need to advertise...
15:49:03 <johnthetubaguy> I mentioned the "universe from nothing" using kayboe inside a VM
15:49:12 <rloo> or maybe it was cuz they didn't know if it was ironic or nova or neutron
15:49:15 <johnthetubaguy> rloo: that was more a debugging issue
15:49:16 <johnthetubaguy> yeah
15:49:18 <johnthetubaguy> that
15:49:40 <rloo> understandable johnthetubaguy. thx.
15:49:41 <johnthetubaguy> not loads of actual users, but lots of interest
15:50:17 <johnthetubaguy> mentioning how networking-generic switch / the ansible one works made people a bit less confused about how it could possibly work
15:50:39 <johnthetubaguy> so in summary, I think its the getting started bits
15:50:50 <TheJulia> that plus the steep learning curve ocmment makes me think we need less developer orietned documentation
15:50:59 <TheJulia> oriented getting started documentaiton
15:51:06 <johnthetubaguy> now there were some compliments for the docs details, but yeah, what you just said
15:51:16 <rloo> sooo many ways to use ironic. where to start, which way to use? :)
15:51:43 <TheJulia> yeah, we tried to go down the path of detailing options for that and got stuck in basically the back and forth of nitpicking archtectures
15:52:04 <TheJulia> but even that, is not getting started at the level likely needed
15:52:09 <johnthetubaguy> I ended up pointing them at this: http://www.stackhpc.com/universe-from-nothing.html
15:52:21 * TheJulia adds note to read that
15:52:22 <johnthetubaguy> because it needs one 32 GB machine and you get to poke it with a stick
15:52:42 <rloo> maybe we should just start by itemizing the different ways. then elaborate later, link to stuff like kayobe
15:52:43 <dtantsur> johnthetubaguy: can we turn that in a playbook that people can clone and execute?
15:52:56 <dtantsur> and the same with bifrost, some sort of "very quick start"
15:53:17 <TheJulia> dtantsur: well, it kind of has that already playbook wise
15:53:25 <johnthetubaguy> dtantsur: its more transferable skills to help do it "properly" with real hardware
15:53:36 <TheJulia> The learning curve is the thing, providing more tooling is not going to solve that
15:53:43 <TheJulia> it is only going to make it harder to understand what/how/why
15:54:12 <dtantsur> TheJulia: I mean, even simpler. https://docs.openstack.org/bifrost/latest/install/index.html but as one script.
15:54:15 <TheJulia> rloo: I've been thinking that is kind of the thing we're missing
15:54:23 <openstackgerrit> Merged openstack/bifrost stable/train: Use upper-constraints everywhere in ironic installation  https://review.opendev.org/704011
15:54:24 <openstackgerrit> Merged openstack/bifrost stable/stein: Use upper-constraints everywhere in ironic installation  https://review.opendev.org/704000
15:54:27 <dtantsur> maybe even a script you can `curl | sudo sh` (SIGH)
15:54:42 <johnthetubaguy> I think its the docs more than the tools, I could be wrong
15:54:47 <johnthetubaguy> +1 rloo's point
15:54:49 <TheJulia> rloo: in terms of expressing "Here is the what" in terms of ways, and how goes from there
15:54:53 <dtantsur> https://docs.openstack.org/bifrost/latest/ could use an improvement
15:54:58 <dtantsur> in terms of landing experience
15:55:20 <rloo> so here's our doc landing page: https://docs.openstack.org/ironic/latest/
15:55:20 <johnthetubaguy> more of a tasting menu, rather than a phone book explanation?
15:55:47 <rloo> maybe under 'User Guide' ? not sure.
15:55:55 <TheJulia> so... that is actually kind of where the doc folks wanted projects to start heding towards... but... that got hard resistance :(
15:56:17 <dtantsur> well, we have a certain degree of freedom now
15:56:19 * TheJulia wonders if we just need a tasting-menu.rst file
15:56:24 <TheJulia> ++
15:56:39 <TheJulia> "Here are the fine wines^Wmodes of install
15:56:41 <TheJulia> "
15:56:43 <iurygregory> tasting-menu.rst for dinner
15:56:57 <TheJulia> Okay, I suspect we're reaching the end of our meeting
15:57:20 <TheJulia> To install ironic, first obtain a whiskey^Wblank machine
15:57:21 <johnthetubaguy> I should say, there was an apatite for hearing about how people succeeded
15:57:26 * iurygregory : we will teach how to prepare good drinks also right?
15:57:31 <johnthetubaguy> that item about baremetal SIG and case studies might be really useful
15:57:32 <TheJulia> johnthetubaguy: that is... a really interesting point
15:57:58 <TheJulia> johnthetubaguy: by chance did you pick up on those operators perferred news/information channels?
15:57:59 <rpittau> so more real experiences / use cases ?
15:58:26 <TheJulia> Yeah
15:58:34 <rpittau> we could document them somewhere
15:58:34 <johnthetubaguy> TheJulia: only consensus was screw the mailing list as no one reads it (only partially a joke)
15:58:40 <rpittau> like a collection of articles
15:58:52 <TheJulia> Part of what happened in the early decline in interest is conferences got burned out on anything with openstack in the submission
15:58:59 <TheJulia> so people gave up submitting talks
15:59:17 <johnthetubaguy> maybe on the docs site, you include the use cases, or links to where they live
15:59:30 <etingof> just s/openstack/virtualization/g
15:59:31 <johnthetubaguy> people do seem to find the docs, at least the ones that actually care do
15:59:35 <TheJulia> The last CFP review I participated, similar feelings on the word "container" was occuring
15:59:39 <rpittau> mayb in the wiki ?
15:59:51 * TheJulia needs to nuke the wiki from high orbit....
15:59:56 <rpittau> :D
16:00:05 <rpittau> so maybe not...
16:00:10 <etingof> Russians work on that already
16:00:46 <johnthetubaguy> twitter apparently worked for the ops summit, FWIW
16:00:48 <rloo> for now, put it under 'User Guide' section, add list of diff ways to use ironic, then put down which companies use it with links (or not) to docs elsewhere.
16:01:17 <TheJulia> Yeah, They have mentioned twitter before
16:01:30 <johnthetubaguy> rloo: that could work, then tweet that we did it
16:01:32 <TheJulia> rloo: we could link to the whitepaper too
16:01:33 <rpittau> rloo: that could be a good place, yeah
16:01:41 <TheJulia> I feel like we're reaching consensus
16:01:48 <TheJulia> Anyway, we're past time, thanks everyone!
16:01:51 <rloo> it is a start. the info could go elsewhere too, later. but let's just start :)
16:02:09 <TheJulia> o/
16:02:19 <rpioso> Thank you!
16:02:22 <rpittau> thanks!
16:02:33 <TheJulia> #endmeeting