19:01:17 <devananda> #startmeeting ironic
19:01:19 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Nov 24 19:01:17 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:20 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:01:22 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ironic'
19:01:26 <NobodyCam> morning all whos here for the Ironic meeting
19:01:28 <JayF> o/
19:01:34 <harshada_kakad> o/
19:01:34 <NobodyCam> \o/
19:01:35 <naohirot> o/
19:01:36 <devananda> hi all!
19:01:36 <JoshNang> o/
19:01:38 <rloo> o/
19:01:41 <mrda> \o/
19:01:55 <wanyen> hi
19:01:56 <jroll> \o
19:01:57 <GheRivero> o/
19:02:01 <jroll> (in this meeting this time)
19:02:01 <JayF> o/
19:02:02 <Shrews> o/
19:02:07 <devananda> jroll: :)
19:02:08 <vdrok_> o/
19:02:45 <devananda> as usual, the agenda is posted here:
19:02:47 <devananda> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic
19:03:00 <devananda> to note, the format of the meeting has changed
19:03:16 <devananda> #topic Announcements
19:03:19 <NobodyCam> status information posted here:
19:03:22 <NobodyCam> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard
19:03:38 <devananda> #undo
19:03:38 <openstack> Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x1f28510>
19:03:48 <devananda> er, sorry - meant to undo my topic change
19:03:49 <NobodyCam> oh jumpped the gun
19:03:49 <devananda> #undo
19:03:49 <openstack> Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x1f28a50>
19:04:08 <devananda> as NobodyCam helpfully linked, the subteam status reports were prepared ahead of time
19:04:11 <devananda> and posted to the etherpad
19:04:17 <devananda> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard
19:04:38 <JayF> Those are to be sent out to the ML to be persisted (in archives), correct?
19:04:51 <jroll> yes
19:04:55 <devananda> we'll go over those after the announcements, and I'll email a summary afterwards
19:05:00 <jroll> JayF: after the meeting
19:05:01 <JayF> perfect
19:05:02 <devananda> that's the largest change to the meeting format
19:05:10 <devananda> ok -- moving on now, for real :)
19:05:12 <devananda> #topic announcements
19:05:36 <NobodyCam> I’d like to call attention to old specs to be abandoned after this meeting
19:05:39 <NobodyCam> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-juno-specs-to-be-removed
19:05:45 <devananda> this is Thanksgiving week in the US, so folks who recognize that holiday (or jsut want time off work) may be less available
19:05:50 <NobodyCam> (unless updated to kilo cycle)
19:06:18 <devananda> I'll be offline Thursday, but probably here Friday
19:06:48 <devananda> #topic subteam status review
19:06:52 <NobodyCam> I'll be off thurs and mostly kinda around fri
19:07:07 * devananda goes and looks at the etherpad for any last-minute changes he hasn't seen
19:07:30 <NobodyCam> thank you all for the up front status updates... I like this format much better :)
19:07:44 <devananda> JayF: woot! good stuff on the agent tests
19:07:58 <devananda> JayF: need to discuss that bug at all today?
19:08:02 * JayF points mostly at jroll
19:08:10 * jroll hides
19:08:15 <JayF> devananda: if anything, wanna discuss making that job voting for IPA
19:08:24 <JayF> devananda: even if we want to wait on Ironic due to the recheck bug
19:08:27 <jroll> devananda: maybe we should let adam_g discuss that bug, I know he's been diving into it
19:08:51 <jroll> if that bug is close, let's wait and just make it voting on both
19:08:58 <NobodyCam> jroll: yes I would like adam_g 's input there
19:09:04 <jroll> if we're still unsure, let's set to voting on just IPA for now
19:09:05 <adam_g> yeah--ive been trying to get as much debug about the it as i can
19:09:09 * jroll 2c
19:09:17 <adam_g> but its still a bit of a mystery
19:09:39 <adam_g> #link http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1393099
19:09:43 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1393099 in openstack-ci "test_baremetal_server_ops fails with timeout waiting for provision_state to change" [Undecided,Confirmed]
19:09:56 <adam_g> once in a while, the VM node just fails to reach back to the hosts TFTP server, with a connection timed out error
19:10:08 <devananda> JayF, jroll: even after chatting with clarkb last week, i'm still unclear on whether or not making that job voting on IPA is going to introduce it into the serialized gate
19:10:10 <adam_g> ive had the test running in two places in a tight loop hoping to catch it but haven't
19:10:27 <jroll> devananda: I don't know enough about the "serialized gate" to understand that
19:10:31 <devananda> but, one way to find out is just to do it, see, and if we were wrong (and it did) then back it out right away
19:10:55 <clarkb> think of jobs as being transitive for generating the list of projects that are cogated
19:10:56 <JayF> devananda: making that job voting on *IPA* won't, making that job voting on *Ironic* will
19:11:01 <JayF> devananda: was what I thought clarkb was saying
19:11:09 <jroll> adam_g: it fails to connect at all, yes? not that it fails to get the whole image there?
19:11:16 <clarkb> so if nova runs jobs A and B, ironic runs jobs B and C, and IPA runs C then they are all in the same gate pipeline
19:11:17 <jroll> (wondering if using ipxe would help at all)
19:11:22 <adam_g> jroll, right
19:11:49 <devananda> clarkb: and if IPA runs jobs C and D -- does D have the ability to affect Nova?
19:12:00 <clarkb> devananda: if there is a transitive path to nova yes
19:12:08 <devananda> right
19:12:09 <clarkb> eg D to C to B
19:12:12 <devananda> so that's my concern
19:12:29 <devananda> instability in this test, even if it only runs on changes to IPA, will transitively affect changes in Nova
19:12:32 <jroll> clarkb: ironic runs agent_ssh-nv, IPA runs agent_ssh-src-nv, would that be a valid path or considered two different jobs? (I think -src is just a parameter to agent-ssh)
19:12:33 <devananda> not because it runs against them
19:12:52 <clarkb> its name based so those are distinct
19:12:57 <devananda> but because it would have the potential to reset the job queue for a Nova change
19:13:06 <jroll> ok, so we should be fine then, I would think
19:13:16 <jroll> it's not a direct path at that point
19:13:54 <devananda> eg, if the zuul job queue is (IPA patch) -> (Nova patch) and that test failure causes the IPA patch to get kicked out, it resets the jobs on the Nova patch too
19:14:06 <devananda> clarkb: is that accurate?
19:14:20 <clarkb> devananda: yes
19:14:31 <devananda> yay!
19:14:39 <JayF> So that won't be true in the case of IPA/Ironic though
19:14:46 <JayF> because as jroll pointed out, the jobs have different names
19:15:04 <JayF> and slightly different characteristics which prevent that from happening (IPA job builds from src, and is named as such, Ironic job pulls from tarballs.o.o)
19:15:37 <devananda> ah, ok.
19:15:49 <devananda> if there is no job overlap between ironic and IPA at all -- then yes, it's fine
19:15:54 <devananda> but that is not my understanding
19:16:22 <devananda> there are /some/ jobs that run on both ironic and ipa changes and /some/ that run on only one. thus, there is still a transitive dependency
19:16:32 <NobodyCam> (we are over our 10 minute cap)
19:16:34 <JayF> I don't believe that's true ^
19:16:35 <jroll> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131632/
19:16:37 <jroll> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132746/
19:16:41 <devananda> NobodyCam: thanks for the time check
19:16:41 <jroll> I don't see any name overlap
19:16:49 <JayF> jroll: evidence++
19:16:56 <jroll> *exact* name overlap, that is
19:17:36 <devananda> let's come back to that after the meeting
19:17:43 <devananda> I want to check the current jobs, not just the proposed ones
19:17:47 <jroll> ok
19:18:11 <devananda> I don't see lucas online today?
19:18:23 <devananda> is anyone else here who wants to lead the boot / deploy interface split discussion?
19:18:27 <NobodyCam> he is off, or at least said he maybe off today
19:19:05 <devananda> #topic split the boot and deploy interfaces
19:19:49 <rloo> is there a spec for that? I looked but didn't see anything (obvious)
19:19:53 <jroll> do we even want to talk about this without lucas?
19:20:05 <jroll> he's done the most research into it
19:20:19 <rloo> +1 to skip then
19:20:21 <devananda> I don't see any spec for it yet -- just checked again
19:20:47 <devananda> #info deferring this discussion since the lead is absent, and there doesn't appear to be a spec
19:21:00 <NobodyCam> ya I was just looking for that
19:21:04 <devananda> #topic vote on the bear's name
19:21:12 <NobodyCam> oh hi
19:21:17 <devananda> another topic started by lucas, but I think NobodyCam wants to lead :)
19:21:29 <NobodyCam> I added a list of the votes to the bottom of the whiteboard
19:21:39 <NobodyCam> that cam thru the ML
19:21:47 <NobodyCam> s/cam/came/
19:22:12 <NobodyCam> not sure how the best way to vote on the name
19:22:36 <devananda> NobodyCam: can you give a little background for folks that might have missed the email?
19:22:45 <rloo> I am not sure that the meeting is a good place to vote. Not everyone can attend this meeting.
19:22:56 <NobodyCam> sure
19:23:07 <rloo> although what's a meeting for, if you can't vote there...
19:23:20 <devananda> I can start a vote here
19:23:30 <devananda> with the names as options. everyone gets one vote
19:23:35 <NobodyCam> lucas created a mascot for Ironic and we have been adding potitional name to the whiteboard
19:23:50 <NobodyCam> Lucas started a ML thread about selecting a name
19:24:28 <NobodyCam> the results from the ML thread are on the whiteboard around line 179
19:25:05 <devananda> let's not spend a lot of time on this today ...
19:25:18 <devananda> I'm fine with voting by mail
19:25:26 <devananda> (says the guy who hasn't voted on that thread yet)
19:25:41 <NobodyCam> I am good with that :)
19:26:05 <devananda> #info If you want to vote on the mascot's name, please reply to the mailing list thread
19:26:06 <JayF> devananda: not voting on the thread could mean you are worrying about more important things than bear names ... like bare metal
19:26:14 <rloo> I think lucas wanted to pick the top 5 of the suggestions, and have folks vote on those. but he isn't here, so I say let's let him deal with it ;)
19:26:14 <NobodyCam> just a quick posting of the current top picks:
19:26:16 <devananda> JayF: possibly ...
19:26:23 <NobodyCam> Bearthoven 5
19:26:24 <NobodyCam> Blaze Bearly 4
19:26:24 <NobodyCam> Ursus 2
19:26:24 <NobodyCam> Pixie 2
19:26:24 <NobodyCam> Pixie Boots 2
19:26:26 <NobodyCam> Ironica 2
19:26:38 <devananda> capping this to one more minute
19:26:41 <NobodyCam> (sorry for large paste)
19:26:50 * NobodyCam is done
19:27:03 <devananda> ok, moving on now :)
19:27:10 <devananda> #topic IRC meeting times
19:27:23 <devananda> this came up at the summit
19:27:32 <devananda> which is another place that, unfortunately, not everyone could be
19:28:15 <devananda> at the last meeting, we discussed some time slot options
19:28:23 <devananda> and I followed up with an email to the list with two proposals
19:28:52 <devananda> I've tallied the replies here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/jjharvUG2JGpUVoyZq9F/
19:29:09 <NobodyCam> I believe I liked #2 but cann't lay my hands on hte archive like
19:29:21 <mrda> (Unfortunately people started voting on the mailing list, when it was really a call to veto, IIRC)
19:29:37 <JayF> devananda: I did not +1 option #1
19:29:42 <JayF> devananda: I only +'d option #2
19:30:01 <devananda> JayF: oh - apologies. I must have misread your reply :(
19:30:08 <devananda> mrda: I did actually ask folks to reply to the thread with a vote
19:30:28 <devananda> mrda: since the point is to not expect everyone to make the current meeting time, it seemed contradictory to expect folks to show up here and vote :)
19:30:31 <Shrews> devananda: no vote meant "fine with either", correct?
19:30:35 <mrda> If you don't mind the quote:
19:30:37 <JayF> aiui; it was vote if you could / would attend both times, don't vote if you could attend one in either proposal
19:30:38 <mrda> Please respond with a "-1" vote to an option if that option would cause you to miss ALL meetings, or a "+1" vote if you can magically attend ALL the meetings. If you can attend, without significant disruption, at least one of the time slots in a proposal, please do not vote either for or against it
19:30:45 <JayF> and minus-vote if you couldn't attend any of them
19:30:50 <devananda> correct
19:31:06 <devananda> I received no "-1" votes at all
19:31:21 <jroll> looks like #2 is the winner, then?
19:31:22 <devananda> which means that both options can accomodate everyone attending at least one half the meetings
19:31:32 <devananda> and more + votes on option #2
19:32:01 <devananda> if anyone has objections, please raise them now
19:32:06 <NobodyCam> will any required room changes be posted to the aganda wiki?
19:32:30 <devananda> otherwise I'll go ahead with arranging a meeting time change based on Option #2, update the appropraite wiki's and calendars, and send out an announcement later today
19:32:36 <devananda> NobodyCam: yes
19:32:41 <NobodyCam> :)
19:32:43 <rloo> for the 'record', what is option 2 and yay, a decision was made!
19:32:55 <devananda> #info Option #2: alternate between Monday 1700 UTC && Tuesday 0500 UTC
19:33:00 <mrda> Actually, my preference is to leave things how they are, but I am happy with group consensus :)
19:33:10 <NobodyCam> 1700: and 0500 alternating weeks
19:34:13 <naohirot> devananda: when do we start the new meeting time?
19:34:41 <naohirot> devananda: from next week?
19:34:53 <devananda> naohirot: I will announce all that on the mailing list after this meeting
19:35:03 <devananda> once I've updated the calendars
19:35:09 <naohirot> devananda: ok
19:35:38 <devananda> that's it for our agenda! phew!
19:35:40 <devananda> #topic open discussion
19:36:04 <jroll> I like this new format :)
19:36:19 <NobodyCam> http://animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/zebra-stripes.htm
19:36:24 <JayF> I have a small devstack change up which should help with diagnosing IPA test failures, if anyone wants to have a look: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136867 :)
19:36:24 <devananda> I'd like to bring up the midcycle meeting timing
19:36:25 <NobodyCam> lol
19:36:48 <devananda> (didn't add it to the agenda last week, since I was still checking with folks internally)
19:37:13 <NobodyCam> thats what open discussion is for
19:37:15 <yjiang5> devananda: where will the midcycle meeting held?
19:37:33 <devananda> I have a solid offer from HP to host it in Grenoble
19:37:50 <mrda> devananda: and do you have firn dates?
19:37:55 <mrda> s/firn/firm/
19:38:11 <devananda> either the week of Jan 27 - 30, or the week of Feb 3 - 6
19:38:23 <devananda> both are possible for the host
19:38:24 <NobodyCam> we are going to attempt to setup video / audio for those folks who can not make it in person?
19:38:52 <jroll> I'm open to either afaik
19:38:54 <naohirot> NobodyCam: that's nice :-)
19:39:00 <jroll> (not sure yet if I can attend in person)
19:39:08 <devananda> NobodyCam: I'd like us to make a much stronger effort for that than we have in the past, but I think we need to know in advance who will be attending remotely
19:39:12 * JayF would not attend either set of dates, but would love to attend emotely
19:39:19 <JayF> *remotely
19:39:39 <jroll> I like emotely, use all the emotes :D \o/ :P
19:39:43 <wanyen> I will attend remotely if it can be arranged
19:39:44 <NobodyCam> worth a section on the whiteboard?
19:39:51 <jroll> yes
19:39:53 * mrda probably couldn't make the early set of dates
19:40:05 <jroll> we should probably mail the list and get a feel for who could/would come
19:40:13 * devananda arranges an informal poll
19:40:17 <devananda> http://doodle.com/4dkpqxr235m35rbt  <<< poll!
19:40:24 <devananda> (does that link work?)
19:40:34 <mrda> yup :)
19:40:38 <devananda> great
19:41:23 <devananda> also, fwiw, I chose those dates because they coincide with kilo-2 milestone
19:41:50 <NobodyCam> quickly added to whiteboard
19:41:52 <devananda> much later in the cycle than that (like, too close to feature freeze)  seems like it would be more challenging
19:41:58 <devananda> to get any code done
19:42:37 <rloo> kilo-2 milestone is week of Feb 5
19:42:51 <devananda> yup
19:43:32 <devananda> those dates also coincide with FOSDEM
19:43:58 <devananda> ok, i'll email the ML with that info
19:44:05 <rloo> and those dates happen to be 'mid cycle' :-)
19:44:41 <devananda> any other topics?
19:44:42 <mrda> coincidence! :)
19:45:14 <rloo> devananda: do/will we have dates wrt specs?
19:45:23 <devananda> rloo: as in spec freeze, etc?
19:45:27 <rloo> yup
19:45:30 <devananda> rloo: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Kilo_Release_Schedule
19:45:31 <NobodyCam> if we have time I'd love to hear what the thoughts are about the new state machine spce
19:45:52 <rloo> devananda: thx. the 'feature*' dates then.
19:46:06 <devananda> I've been doing a lot of spec reviews last week (like, hardly anything else)
19:46:22 <devananda> and jsut have to say, there are a lot of really good specs up there!
19:46:35 <NobodyCam> yes!
19:46:53 <devananda> NobodyCam: I think we're waiting for victor to post a new revision?
19:47:07 <mrda> ...so we might just have a lot of really good code to review this cycle :P
19:47:29 <NobodyCam> should have one soonish according to his reply to my just before meeting ping :)
19:49:03 <devananda> well, if there's nothing else to discuss here, let's wrap up early :)
19:49:09 <devananda> thanks everyone!
19:49:16 <NobodyCam> w00t '
19:49:22 <mrda> thanks devananda
19:49:26 <NobodyCam> great meeting
19:49:30 <devananda> #endmeeting