20:00:57 #startmeeting Horizon 20:00:58 Meeting started Wed Jun 3 20:00:57 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:00:59 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 20:01:02 The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' 20:01:28 Good afternoon! 20:01:31 o/ 20:01:32 o/ 20:01:34 o/ 20:01:34 o/ 20:01:35 o/ 20:01:35 Hi all 20:01:37 hello there 20:01:39 greetings 20:01:40 hi! 20:01:41 yo 20:01:43 hi there 20:02:46 hello 20:02:49 howdy 20:03:11 hello everyone 20:03:16 Hello 20:03:21 0/ 20:03:24 as the horizon turns episode 2000 20:03:52 https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon 20:03:53 lol, what season? 20:04:26 so the agenda for today can be found on the link lhcheng provided 20:04:29 thanks lhcheng 20:04:32 wow, we have a lot in agenda today 20:04:45 crazy, right? 20:04:46 ok, who added all that stuff to the agenda? :) 20:05:15 lol 20:05:26 what's wrong with people? 20:05:39 I have an extra topic that I'm going to start with 20:05:41 just cause 20:05:53 #drunkwithpower 20:05:54 Surprise Topic! 20:06:31 Nobody expects the surprise topic 20:06:45 OpenStack is moving from a shake the magic 8-ball approach to release planning to reporting what we did 20:06:46 he's holding out the anticipation 20:06:52 darn, forgot to add my topic!! 20:07:07 hurgleburgler1: go ahead 20:07:13 on the wiki 20:07:24 david-lyle: what does that mean? 20:07:44 (oh good, it wasn't just me) 20:07:47 we'll probably have fewer blueprints completed 20:07:48 so ... no planning? just reporting results? 20:07:54 so we used to slate all these blueprints for milestones and hope by some crazy chance it might actually land there 20:08:07 lol - I thought that was the old process! 20:08:13 oh wait 20:08:26 * doug-fish stops laughing and reads 20:08:33 the success rate was quite low, not surprisingly 20:08:58 At the summit we actually spent some time lining up what the priorities were 20:09:19 they were collated here #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-horizon-liberty-priorities 20:09:41 we also talked about having a page that showed review priority 20:09:58 My suggestion would be just to use the etherpad to track the release 20:10:14 rather than on a per milestone basis 20:10:22 pile of poo here we come 20:10:33 link the bps and bugs on that etherpad directly 20:10:43 I've found two things over time 20:11:08 1) reviewers don't actually look at the milestone list to prioritize blueprint reviews 20:11:34 2) moving around random things in launchpad is not highly effective. 20:11:44 Thoughts? 20:11:52 agreed 20:12:00 Well, I liked using etherpad for launch instance last release 20:12:10 I think it's worth a shot, perhaps we just need to remind folks occasionally 20:12:21 The etherpad is probably clearer and simpler - and no reason to think it will be less effective 20:12:24 also, could people with testing patches please update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/june_2015_testing_push :) 20:12:34 sure thing 20:12:40 (that's linked from the priorities page) 20:12:47 yeah, im fine with either approach, but having etherpad helps a bit. my only concern is when it starts to grow and becomes a tangle of mess 20:13:09 at least - unlike blueprints - you can have an actual conversation in an etherpad 20:13:09 I had the same issue with launchpad 20:13:12 I would expect to become a mess more sooner than later 20:13:28 there is no sync back to etherpad 20:13:31 ... or are we still expecting to use blueprints? 20:13:36 (once patch is reviewed) 20:13:44 mrunge: good point 20:13:47 mrunge's point is the biggest 20:13:48 it's very manual 20:13:51 i think a hybrid approach might make sense, have your bp in launchpad, and link it in etherpad 20:14:06 tqtran, that's double effort then 20:14:18 Anyone can modify the etherpad, so we'd have to watch out for who is changing/deleting things. 20:14:24 this way, the details and stuff is out of the way and reviewers can just focus on line items they need to knock down 20:14:26 * david-lyle pulls back the curtain a bit 20:14:35 I update the bp status manually in launchpad too 20:14:40 it's not automated 20:14:48 Well, one thing i like about the current etherpad linked here is that we can see themes. 20:14:57 aand, easiest way to sneak own patches to top prio ;-) 20:15:06 Yes! 20:15:12 true, no governance mrunge. 20:15:55 etherpad does have a timeslider... 20:15:55 https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-horizon-liberty-priorities/timeslider 20:16:03 but, no way to enforce changes 20:16:28 TravT, true, so revisions are recorded. 20:16:29 I like the etherpad idea - maybe we revisit if we find it's being abused/vandalized? 20:16:37 if you all like launchpad, we can stick with that, I just waste a lot of time on managing those lists 20:16:44 although, it doesn't seem to work right (at least playing with it). 20:16:56 and get very little out of it 20:16:56 wait, now it is working. 20:17:06 woah, woah, who alleged I like launchpad? 20:17:06 TravT: you have to save revisions as well 20:17:49 I would also hazard to guess 75% of what's in the etherpad has neither a bp or bug in launchpad right now 20:18:02 * david-lyle points finger of guilt around the room 20:18:09 there should be more bugs linked, yes. I will do one now 20:18:15 Doesn't hurt to try it, I think we should just go for it. 20:18:24 It is better than what we do now. 20:18:25 david-lyle, that'd be another reason not to use an etherpad 20:18:29 * ducttape_ points a different finger back at david-lyle ;) 20:18:32 yeah, lets try it and see how well it works out 20:18:38 We can revisit it after a few months if it working or not. 20:18:52 * TravT feeling guilty 20:19:21 the thing is we have an idea what we want to accomplish, it's there in the etherpad, it's more about fleshing out the details 20:19:27 so, process wise, last release, we'd just use the cross out thing when something got done. 20:19:28 I'd say: let's try and revisit next week 20:19:42 TravT: +1 20:19:51 TravT, but you were under 10 people 20:19:57 yep, agreed 20:20:06 and you met each day on that pad 20:20:16 i am a little worried having all blueprints linked here will get messy. 20:20:37 it's all messy 20:20:40 maybe we should copy this etherpad to somewhere for reference. 20:20:48 +1 20:20:53 we have a little over 240 blueprints currently 20:21:02 since it is more thematic at the moment without all the details. 20:21:02 wow 20:21:08 mrunge: and how many of those are legit? 20:21:10 not to speak about bugs or patchsets 20:21:23 david-lyle, right. maybe 50? 20:21:39 We should clean that out then. 20:21:51 Legit as in Accepted to work on? 20:21:56 Switching to etherpad won't help that. :-) 20:22:23 hurgleburgler, in the past, a not accepted blueprint was not a blocker for review 20:22:33 we might think again about that 20:23:04 lets take the week to consider and move on to the scheduled items 20:23:05 we could simply drop unaccepted blueprints after... 1 month? 20:23:43 honestly I find none of the options overly appealing 20:23:44 if you are going to do that, there probably should be a weekly blueprint review meeting among drivers or something like that 20:24:25 not a bad idea, but more overhead for the bp reviewers 20:24:28 +1 for discussing blueprints 20:24:35 +1 for more overhead 20:24:39 oh wait 20:24:58 I think it makes sense though 20:25:11 let's take this offline for now 20:25:20 #topic Angular translation, continue using tweaked Django or switch to Babel? (tqtran/r1chardj0n3s) 20:25:23 I would like it, cause I honestly never know who I need to bribe for a bp 20:25:38 hurgleburgler: when in doubt, all 20:25:42 ooh, translation cage match 20:25:51 and in this corner 20:25:52 we all take bribes around here. 20:26:05 oh man, I gotta get in on this bribery action 20:26:36 * TravT digresses - let tqtran have the floor with r1chardj0n3s 20:27:00 ok next topic 20:27:15 so basically, we have settled on 2 different ways to translate angular static html 20:27:30 tqtran: got the bp link? I've lost it because launchpad 20:27:51 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/angular-translate-makemessages 20:28:02 its quite a long read, but it outlines my thought process 20:28:28 and list alternatives with pros/cons 20:28:53 right now, i think its agreed that we will go with approach 3 since its something angular-gettext supports 20:29:05 (for markup) 20:29:15 yes for markup and future compatibility 20:29:35 the part where we need a discussion around is the translation extraction 20:29:41 which is listed as options in the bp 20:30:14 richard is advocating for option 2 and using babel for extraction 20:30:19 his reasons are as follows: 20:30:29 1) use angular-gettext now, not later 20:30:34 (except that option 2 I'm advocating is less sucky than the BP implies ;) 20:30:37 2) use babel to extract messages from django templates and angular templates, exrtacting into the current messages catalog 20:30:44 3) use django's translation system as we do today over the top of that messages catalog 20:30:51 4) need to use babeldjango plugin 20:31:15 and today, i found out that we already have babel in the requirements and are using it to some degree 20:31:22 oh! 20:31:30 thanks to doug-fish for pointing that out 20:31:37 sure, np 20:31:50 i'm advocating for option 3 20:32:28 1) use angular-gettext as well 20:32:37 2) extend a django makemessages command 20:33:12 3) create a temp file that we dump all static translatable html strings into 20:33:12 4) let django do its work 20:33:12 (with a hack that leaves a horrid legacy for future horizon devs) 20:33:12 5) delete file 20:33:13 its not a hack lol 20:33:16 :) 20:33:31 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187321/ 20:33:45 here is the patch for the single translation version, with interpolation and plural added in later patches 20:33:47 it messes with the workings of makemessage in a way that is potentially fragile and not clear to future devs 20:34:26 it doesn't mess with makemessages, it adds a temporary file that contains all extracted strings so that django can do its thing 20:34:30 that's my reasoning to use a tool that's designed to be extended and already handles django templates 20:34:45 it replaces makemessages command by overridding the built in class 20:34:58 monkeypatching, yeah :) 20:35:29 so for me, i dont understand babel enough to know how the plugin would fit into horizon 20:36:01 if you can put up a patch and show how it would all fit together, i will be more than happy to create a plugin for it 20:36:25 * TravT gets some popcorn 20:36:31 thoughts? 20:36:54 I'd like to see an investigation for using babel, the temp file seems "interesting" 20:37:18 I think a look at babel before writing our own tool would be a good idea 20:37:24 babel plugins are just a python file that knows how to extract messages from text 20:37:31 yeah, its a work around since we don't have access to override the makemessages class in django 20:37:39 I don't understand either option well enough yet to offer a definitive opinion 20:37:47 i'd agree at this point that seeing an alternate patch with babel would help to clarify. 20:37:48 eg here's the existing django one http://babel.edgewall.org/browser/contrib/django/babeldjango/extract.py 20:37:49 but if that goes poorly we have a fallback 20:37:59 which uses django's built-in parser to pull messages from its templates 20:38:32 all we need to do is use tqtran's regex he's already written for his tempfile approach and put it in an extract_angular function and register it with babel 20:38:33 but how would we use that in horizon today? 20:38:49 and then instead of invoking manage.py makemessages we invoke babel 20:38:55 that's it, afaict 20:39:15 the message catalog produced is the same as today 20:39:18 so we invoke bable for the angular stuff and leave the js/py/templates to django? 20:39:21 so all the downstream is the same as today 20:39:39 tqtran: no, babel extracts the django stuff as well using its plugin. one command 20:39:56 so we need 2 plugins, a django one and an angular one 20:40:04 in either case, would the HTML markup look similar (attempt to be forward compatible with angular gettext)? 20:40:08 ok, r1chardj0n3s can you work on a prototype for that? or someone else? we have a lot to get through today 20:40:10 yes, the django one that already exists 20:40:16 TravT: yes it would be 20:40:25 david-lyle: I can work on it, but I won't get to it until later next week 20:40:54 ok cool, lets wait on the prototype, we can work on it together if you like r1chardj0n3s 20:41:01 tqtran: ok, thanks 20:41:03 that would be ideal 20:41:09 thanks! 20:41:29 #topic Horizon Keystone to Keystone Federation - current status and future directions (pauloewerton) 20:41:48 david-lyle, of course you bring this up as i'm getting ready to leave 20:41:58 as I planned it 20:42:12 should we punt a week on this topic stevemar 20:42:13 ? 20:43:06 (maybe he left?) 20:43:27 ok, reshuffling deck, slipping K2K to the bottom 20:43:35 so I know that this work is probably blocked because of that keystoneclient auth plugin dependency 20:44:17 it's true - it looks like they have some nice, not-yet-implemented ideas https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172155/ 20:44:24 i trust doug-fish to know everything 20:44:38 stevemar: let me know how that works out for you! 20:44:53 doug-fish, it's been working well 20:45:02 "Oh yeah, the keystone guys will do that" 20:45:21 I think this work can't make much progress until we have something concrete to build on, I know doug-fish has a patch up 20:45:36 but we can't do much without the dependencies merged 20:45:37 I see 20:45:53 true. Here's the patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159910/ 20:45:59 we're trying to figure out our auth plugins story on the keystone side 20:46:01 We can discuss in the horizon room as well 20:46:15 we're trying to put all auth plugins into a new repo (keystoneauth) 20:46:19 and have that ready for L1 20:46:23 doug-fish, david-lyle ok, thanks 20:46:32 I think there is visibility, we just need to hash out the details 20:46:32 just a question 20:46:46 (the k2k plugin should go into that repo) 20:47:12 once this work in django-openstack-auth is finished 20:47:46 would we have something like a service provider selector in horizon nav-bar, for instance? 20:48:15 I think this is a discussion that should happen on the blueprint not in the team meeting 20:48:33 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/k2k-federation 20:48:52 david-lyle, doug-fish, sure. 20:49:01 I really need to get to the next two topics and time is dwindling 20:49:12 pauloewerton: we'll work it out in the bp 20:49:21 #topic A Quick searchlight update (TravT) 20:49:23 so, at the summit, we showed project Searchlight in a fishbowl for both Glance and Horizon. since then, have been doing the work to get it set up as a new project separated from Glance. 20:49:34 today we put up for a vote to be included in the official Big Tent project list #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188014/ 20:49:47 the wiki is here: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Searchlight 20:50:07 horizon is intended to be a (the?) primary consumer of the project initially, so wanted to give an update and also set some context for discussion on the mid-cycle meet-up. 20:50:31 #topic Midcycle meetup (david-lyle, TravT) 20:51:01 so a mid-cycle meetup was strongly requested at the summit 20:51:24 we've had several offers for hosts, thank you all 20:52:09 One potential set of dates is July 8-10 in Boston, MA. This would coincide with the glance and searchlight mid-cycles as well 20:52:27 a number of Glance cores are also going to be working on searchlight, so co-locating with them helps get approval. 20:52:31 as there is an interest overlap that could potentially very productive 20:52:59 I know of at least one person these dates don't work for 20:53:11 Ah doh! That's during comiccon 20:53:21 :-) 20:53:28 sorry, my priority will always be batman 20:53:37 :) 20:53:44 So there are a couple of other options 20:54:15 July 20-22 or July 21-23 in Fort Collins, CO 20:54:17 if you did it in san diego, that'd be an interesting mid-cycle meet up :-D 20:54:39 the whole city becomes mardi gras for nerds 20:54:57 or another undetermined data in San Jose, CA or maybe Portland, OR 20:55:11 thoughts on people's availability? 20:55:14 we've (including nikhil_k - Glance PTL) put together an initial spreadsheet to help bring out ideas and for voting. 20:55:22 #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w0eI6SPCA2IrOyHiEYC2uDO3fbYGzahZRUQSva0UD3Y/edit#gid=0 20:55:32 room idea are on top, but if you scroll down 20:56:13 you can fill in your availability in the "Voting" section 20:56:59 cool will fill that in 20:57:08 so if you can fill that in, we can close quickly 20:57:40 if we went with the early dates, people will need to start booking travel in the next few days 20:57:59 so please fill it in 20:58:01 * ducttape_ enjoys watching the names fill in. mesmorizing 20:58:07 magic 20:58:26 last two topics real quick 20:58:33 #topic Adding events information to instance audit tab https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/instance-events (peristeri) 20:58:44 peristeri: wasn't able to attend 20:58:52 but he want to point out the bp 20:58:58 there's a demo video as well 20:59:08 i just watched it 20:59:22 pretty interesting. 20:59:31 I think it makes perfect sense, may need some tweaking, but overall I have no problem with the concept 20:59:32 and some discussion should happen in context of searchlight as well 20:59:37 TravT: sure 20:59:54 i don't like that it is new functionality in legacy code, but that is a detail. 21:00:21 and finally 21:00:24 lol yeah, that means more work for us when we do decide to convert 21:00:38 #topic Themeing Additions (hurgleburgler) 21:00:44 tqtran: WHEN 21:00:48 yay! 21:00:59 when the fat lady sings 21:01:11 I've been doing some work using the new themeing functionality and hit a few bugs as well as some things that can be improved quite a bit 21:01:15 I think she's sung, it's time ;) 21:01:18 if I can get some eyes on the following 21:01:18 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-theme-templates 21:01:18 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188162/ 21:01:18 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/bootstrap-theme-preview 21:01:19 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187818/ 21:01:21 https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1457188 21:01:21 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187797/ 21:01:22 Launchpad bug 1457188 in OpenStack Dashboard (Horizon) "Bootstrap variables overrides should only be default values" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Diana Whitten (hurgleburgler) 21:01:28 woah, link! 21:01:30 dang calm down on the links 21:02:04 these are patches to make the theming we based of hurgleburgler earlier work, far more useful 21:02:05 there's no need to click them all... 21:02:09 please check it out 21:02:15 s/it/them 21:02:28 Thanks! 21:02:37 ok, we're over. followup can be in the horizon room 21:02:44 Thanks everyone! 21:02:46 #endmeeting