11:59:25 <david-lyle> #startmeeting Horizon
11:59:26 <openstack> Meeting started Wed May 13 11:59:25 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
11:59:27 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
11:59:29 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'horizon'
11:59:32 <tsufiev> hi!
12:00:26 <robcresswell> Afternoon :)
12:00:54 <david-lyle> Alright, let's get rolling
12:01:12 <david-lyle> I finalized the schedule for the summit next week
12:01:24 <david-lyle> #topic summit
12:01:32 <david-lyle> #link https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/type/design+summit/horizon#.VVM9PmTBzRY
12:01:38 <david-lyle> #link https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/type/design+summit/horizon
12:02:24 <david-lyle> for more details with names #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-liberty-summit
12:02:55 <david-lyle> tsufiev: I have merlin in a working session with curvatue
12:03:01 <david-lyle> *curvature
12:03:18 <david-lyle> 9:50 on Wed
12:03:23 <tsufiev> david-lyle, thanks, will be there :). I've got something to show
12:03:38 <robcresswell> bradjones will be around to talk Curvature
12:03:46 <david-lyle> excellent
12:04:58 <david-lyle> The only problem with the etherpad approach is there are less clear owners
12:05:24 <david-lyle> for the fishbowls, UX is Piet
12:05:47 <david-lyle> Performance will have TravT and likely room for another
12:06:04 <david-lyle> and I'll run the operator feedback session
12:07:05 <david-lyle> I found out yesterday that projectors are not a standard part of the working session room setup, so we're attempting to track one down to use
12:07:42 <david-lyle> any questions on the Horizon part of the design summit schedule?
12:08:08 <doug-fish> I see on thurs at 9:50 there are 2 Horizon sessions ....
12:08:10 <bradjones> david-lyle: projectors would be very useful for demoing otherwise a lot of crowding round laptops :)
12:08:12 <doug-fish> is that a mistake?
12:08:24 <david-lyle> doug-fish: second one is designate
12:08:35 <doug-fish> oh - it was _my_ mistake
12:08:36 <doug-fish> got it
12:08:38 <david-lyle> not sure why it's showing up as horizon
12:08:59 <doug-fish> it looks like they intended it as a Horizon discussion
12:09:00 <david-lyle> maybe because Horizon is in the subject
12:09:58 <david-lyle> so we may need to send a couple people to their room too
12:10:31 <doug-fish> I guess we can sort that out when the time comes
12:10:47 <david-lyle> doug-fish: I would think so
12:11:29 <david-lyle> The last scheduling issue for the summit was the sunday night social
12:11:46 <david-lyle> although looking at the mailing list, it seems no organized party on Monday
12:12:03 <david-lyle> so we could move it to Monday
12:12:23 <doug-fish> I'd vote Sunday
12:12:27 <david-lyle> or start on Sunday and see if we ever want to talk to each other again before committing to Monday :P
12:12:34 <doug-fish> lol
12:13:08 <robcresswell> Either works for me
12:13:27 <david-lyle> let's stick with Sunday
12:13:35 * tsufiev will try to be there Sunday night if he won't fall asleep
12:13:41 <david-lyle> just need a meeting place
12:13:56 <david-lyle> who's the social chair?
12:14:43 <doug-fish> well I'm a big fan of the get together - but I'm a poor social chair
12:15:24 <david-lyle> we just need a venue (bar) close to the conference center
12:15:29 <tsufiev> oh, I see a mcdonalds near the convention center :)
12:15:37 <robcresswell> tsufiev: -.-
12:16:00 <david-lyle> put suggestions in the planning etherpad
12:16:20 <david-lyle> and we'll pick later this week
12:16:36 <david-lyle> then maybe send an email to the dev list
12:17:04 <david-lyle> ok, enough summit for now. Looking forward to seeing everyone next week
12:17:16 <david-lyle> #topic xstatic and licenses
12:17:45 <david-lyle> so zigo has found another package that is not properly licensed
12:17:51 <david-lyle> that makes 3 so far
12:18:28 <david-lyle> I need to check the docs and see if licensing is mentioned, but we need to be more careful
12:18:58 <robcresswell> Agreed. Is anyone addressing the licenses?
12:19:09 <doug-fish> we don't really review the packages as part of our process do we?
12:19:43 <doug-fish> I'm trying to think about when we should do that
12:20:11 <david-lyle> robcresswell: zigo posted a patch and I just approved
12:20:16 <david-lyle> will tag later today
12:20:39 <robcresswell> Great, thanks
12:20:52 <david-lyle> I personally think it's a fault in the way requirements are reviewed
12:21:08 <david-lyle> first crack at it is requirements core
12:21:40 <david-lyle> after that point it's just a bot proposal to horizon
12:22:06 <david-lyle> I watch the requirements repo, but I don't catch all horizon related changes proposed
12:22:10 <robcresswell> These seems to be a lot of confusion over xstatic though. It's pretty commonly asked in irc.
12:22:11 <doug-fish> Maybe we take those bot proposals seriously?
12:22:19 <tsufiev> david-lyle, IMO we got more chances to check the license when the xstatic package is being published
12:22:22 <doug-fish> review the license, etc before accepting
12:22:43 <tsufiev> or, before it's published
12:22:48 <david-lyle> tsufiev: things is developers publish the repos first
12:22:55 <david-lyle> before telling anyone
12:23:36 <tsufiev> david-lyle, just too many repos...
12:23:39 <robcresswell> Hmm, perhaps some kind of review checklist would be useful for xstatic, so we make sure the licenses are valid, amongst other things.
12:23:42 <david-lyle> we'll talk a little about packaging at the summit, we should raise this issue again when we have more heads in the room
12:23:57 <robcresswell> +!
12:24:00 <robcresswell> +1*
12:24:15 <david-lyle> I think the biggest issue is awareness
12:24:21 <david-lyle> so we can work on that
12:25:09 <david-lyle> #topic Open Discussion
12:25:24 <david-lyle> there wasn't anything added to the formal agenda, so we'll go free form
12:27:41 <robcresswell> I put up a first patch for some Angular docs; could use feedback. Not just what's wrong, but what else you'd like to see, especially those with very little familiarity with Angular. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182243/
12:27:58 <robcresswell> There is more content coming on tests and writing your own panels, too.
12:28:17 <robcresswell> But trying to get the ball rolling so we can move on from python-everything.
12:28:51 <david-lyle> robcresswell: nice
12:28:53 <david-lyle> thank you
12:29:18 <david-lyle> a heads up, after today, there will likely be a bit of a tree cleanup in the angular related bode
12:29:21 <david-lyle> *code
12:29:33 <robcresswell> Tyr's patch right?
12:29:49 <robcresswell> I saw it out in the wild somewhere
12:29:54 <david-lyle> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/176152/
12:29:57 <david-lyle> yeah
12:30:06 <david-lyle> looks like it still needs a little work
12:30:12 <david-lyle> according to Jenkins
12:30:22 <robcresswell> Yep, will keep an eye out and change accordingly.
12:30:27 <robcresswell> thanks
12:30:39 <bradjones> robcresswell: more info on testing will be great, can talk to you offline about what testing info I would have found useful when I started writing the curvature jasmine tests
12:30:41 <david-lyle> but I didn't see too much directory structure in your patch so may not mess you up much
12:31:09 <robcresswell> david-lyle: No, just a few bits and pieces as guidance.
12:31:14 <robcresswell> bradjones: Sounds good!
12:31:44 <robcresswell> I'm more than happy for people to just say "write about X", and I'll go do some research, so feel free to add comments.
12:32:05 * robcresswell feels like he may regret saying that
12:32:41 * bradjones will make robcresswell regret saying that
12:32:46 <david-lyle> robcresswell: The karma bit will be interesting as well once it's in
12:34:00 <robcresswell> david-lyle: Yeah, Richard mentioned that. Seems like the current patch needs some discussion regarding packaging etc too.
12:34:20 <robcresswell> Still unclear on whether there is any acceptance of bower/ npm, even if its just for testing purposes.
12:34:41 <david-lyle> robcresswell: yes, I think the patch is a good idea and a good developer tool, just need to discuss it a bit
12:34:51 <tsufiev> robcresswell, yet there are already npm-based jobs in jenkins up and running
12:35:09 <david-lyle> a fully optional testing tool based on npm is ok
12:35:19 <david-lyle> a required one is not
12:35:22 <robcresswell> tsufiev: Indeed, JSHint being one of them.
12:35:23 <tsufiev> we used for testing Merlin the ones that krotscheck made for storyboard-webclient
12:35:39 <david-lyle> and one that introduces another dependency scheme is worse
12:36:11 <david-lyle> tsufiev: in merlin you have all the dependencies vendored into the source directory?
12:36:25 <david-lyle> javascript ones?
12:36:25 <robcresswell> What about an optional one, that includes dependencies? I'm mainly thinking of including the package.json/ bower.json
12:36:55 <david-lyle> robcresswell: I'm not for a separate dependency mechanism
12:37:03 <tsufiev> david-lyle, good question :). I should inspect test logs to give you a definite answer, for now it 'just works'
12:37:15 <mrunge> yes, yikes. that'll create a nightmare
12:37:16 <david-lyle> robcresswell: it needs to be the same
12:37:22 <robcresswell> In that case, Karma will need an xstatic package
12:37:57 <david-lyle> robcresswell: karma is a tool, my issue is it was pulling in dependencies using bower rather than xstatic
12:38:07 <david-lyle> which isn't a valid way to test anything
12:38:23 <david-lyle> matt has resolved that part
12:38:41 <david-lyle> so my hackles are down now
12:38:41 <robcresswell> Yeah, should have phrased myself better.
12:38:47 <tsufiev> david-lyle, okay, we have bower_components and node_modules dirs put inside merlin repo by jenkins job while it's being run
12:39:11 <david-lyle> tsufiev: so you are running bower in the gate?
12:39:21 <robcresswell> His patch still has a bower.json with listed dependencies, or does he have a newer patch offline?
12:39:36 <david-lyle> robcresswell: he's marked it WIP
12:39:45 <tsufiev> david-lyle, not yet, but that's the plan proposed by krotscheck
12:40:24 <david-lyle> tsufiev: so how do you get the packages in bower_components?
12:40:42 <david-lyle> we can discuss later too
12:40:58 <david-lyle> mrunge: thoughts on karma as an optional testing tool?
12:41:19 <mrunge> david-lyle, as long as we don't introduce another dependency chain
12:41:28 <mrunge> or another packaging tool....
12:41:29 <david-lyle> I wanted to make sure you had an opportunity to weigh in from the packaging perspective
12:41:35 <mrunge> :D
12:41:40 <david-lyle> mrunge: ok that was my biggest concern too
12:42:01 <mrunge> I haven't looked at building karma from source yet
12:42:08 <david-lyle> trojan packaging tool additions get me up in arms
12:42:24 <tsufiev> david-lyle, I'm not putting the dependencies downloaded by bower into merlin repo, instead I had put just a list of dependencies and deployment instructions including 'node_modules/.bin/bower install'
12:42:33 <mrunge> tsufiev, have you asked zigo about using karma yet?
12:42:47 <tsufiev> david-lyle, sorry, I was a bit incorrect
12:42:56 <mrunge> he's the other person involved with packaging here
12:43:14 <tsufiev> mrunge, not yet
12:43:34 <mrunge> tsufiev, you should! it might stop your plans immediately
12:43:35 <david-lyle> there is a cross-project session on javascript
12:43:58 <mrunge> oh, funny
12:44:14 <david-lyle> http://sched.co/3D66
12:44:41 <david-lyle> so we may have more clarity or more confusion after that :)
12:45:01 <tsufiev> mrunge, david-lyle: I hope that things clarify after this session, right now the test specs itself are most valuable part of testing machinery, how do we run them is second question
12:45:21 <david-lyle> tsufiev: we use jasmine right now
12:45:31 <tsufiev> david-lyle, as we do
12:45:32 <david-lyle> but that's through selenium
12:45:37 <david-lyle> it could be much better
12:45:57 <david-lyle> but the solution has to work for all parties not just developers
12:46:15 <mrunge> "Modern JavaScript...." :D
12:46:16 <tsufiev> yeah, I've considered using the Horizon's approach, but running pure JS tests via some python machinery looked hacky to me :-/
12:46:30 <david-lyle> tsufiev: oh it is
12:46:34 <david-lyle> no question
12:46:57 <tsufiev> and then storyboard-webclient came to our rescue :)
12:47:09 <david-lyle> but it's the compromise we've landed on to work with operators and packagers
12:47:39 <david-lyle> which is part of the equation that storyboard-webclient doesn't have to concern itself with
12:47:44 <tsufiev> oh, I remember reading 120-letter thread about JS tooling
12:47:52 <david-lyle> yeah
12:48:45 <david-lyle> so unless we have wider consensus on a tool chain change, I'm not moving
12:48:54 <tsufiev> okay, once merlin goes to horizon we would be happy to obey common rules, I believe it would be so hard to reuse horizon Jasmine runners
12:49:06 <tsufiev> *it wouldn't be
12:49:15 <mrunge> are you sure, merlin will move to horizon?
12:49:25 <tsufiev> mrunge, that was the original plan
12:49:27 <david-lyle> we may have an epiphany at the summit too
12:49:34 <mrunge> yupp
12:50:26 <david-lyle> mrunge: we'll discuss at the summit, but IIUC merlin is a generalized toolkit which would make sense the base repo, Horizon
12:50:38 <mrunge> david-lyle, sure
12:50:48 <david-lyle> a common piece plugins could use
12:50:51 <tsufiev> david-lyle, yep, that's the main point
12:50:56 <mrunge> I was just thinking of "core" and plugins and "ugly rest"
12:50:59 <mrunge> or so
12:51:04 <david-lyle> but that's why we have the session
12:51:09 <david-lyle> and the plugin session
12:51:15 <david-lyle> lots to talk about :D
12:53:04 <david-lyle> any last thoughts anyone?
12:53:17 <mrunge> who is preparing sessions?
12:53:37 <mrunge> is that just you david-lyle ?
12:53:40 <david-lyle> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-liberty-summit is the best guide
12:53:43 <david-lyle> whoa
12:54:02 <david-lyle> I listed the fishbowl owners above
12:54:28 <david-lyle> for the working sessions, I think it can be more freeform
12:54:40 <david-lyle> I can lead #1
12:54:49 <david-lyle> #2 is tsufiev and bradjones
12:54:56 <david-lyle> #3 I can lead
12:55:12 <david-lyle> #4 would be great if mrunge led :D
12:55:37 <david-lyle> #5 a mix of lhcheng, doug-fish and david-lyle
12:55:50 <david-lyle> #6 TravT and tqtran
12:56:13 * mrunge makes a mental note to prepare messaging...
12:56:24 <david-lyle> #7 r1chardJ0n3s, sqchen and tqtran
12:56:39 <david-lyle> #8 I can with many helping
12:57:16 <david-lyle> if anyone wants to lead any of the oh crap it's dave sessions again, speak up
12:57:24 <tsufiev> :)))
12:57:28 <robcresswell> haha
12:57:40 <david-lyle> I'm hoping those are more roundtable
12:57:51 <david-lyle> I can moderate if need be
12:58:30 <david-lyle> I need to set up etherpads for the sessions too, i'll try to get those up today or tomorrow
12:58:38 <david-lyle> unless someone beats me to it
12:58:43 <david-lyle> ok, times up
12:58:53 <david-lyle> see everyone next week, safe travels
12:59:00 <david-lyle> #endmeeting