16:02:12 #startmeeting Horizon 16:02:13 Meeting started Tue Apr 22 16:02:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:02:14 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:02:17 The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' 16:02:22 hiya 16:02:26 hi 16:02:33 ahoy o/ 16:02:38 hi 16:02:55 hi 16:02:59 Hello everyone 16:03:17 o/ (lurking for Sahara related topics) 16:03:26 hi all! 16:03:39 hi! 16:03:41 hello 16:03:59 Icehouse is officially release, on to Juno and backports to stable/icehouse. 16:04:18 Thanks everyone for all you efforts on icehouse. 16:04:40 Something we can all be proud of 16:05:08 nice! great job to all 16:05:59 The only topic I have for today regards design session topics, the proposal deadline is past, and I need to schedule the sessions. I want to have you help culling/combining topics. 16:06:38 #link http://summit.openstack.org/ 16:07:04 2x topics to slots 16:07:25 How many slots do we have? 16:07:52 I'm going to withdraw the node topic, I think we understand that one, and I just need to do the work. Or we can discuss the finer points in the hall. 16:07:57 jcoufal: 8 16:08:13 we have lots of technical things to discuss 16:08:37 mrunge, re: node or other items 16:08:59 david-lyle, well, I'd say, they might be connected 16:09:35 http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/264 strikes me as not controversial, I'm not sure that a session is needed - someone just needs to do the work 16:09:50 I could see that, but node/npm will be a means to an end here 16:10:35 jpich, agreed, the only thing I could see for that would be a demo, but it doesn't sound to be that far along 16:10:40 jpich: +1 16:10:52 is it too late to add topics? 16:11:09 jpich, I agree somehow. Although that proposal looks a bit empty 16:11:24 or cloudy, I'd say ;-) 16:11:30 This seems like an easy +1 http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/32 16:11:31 Re: Nodejs, there are people (Radomir?) who are investigating other alternatives for compiling CSS 16:12:14 yes, and discussed websockets, or discussed using marconi for websockets 16:12:44 node would be the other solution for async messaging 16:12:50 tqtran: I'm afraid so, especially since we have way more sessions proposed than slots available. Though maybe exceptions can be made for a very important topics... 16:13:32 mrunge: I'd prefer to see a Python solution, I think that's where we were going with the sockets 16:13:51 doug-fish: thanks for the +1!! 16:14:37 doug-fish: I think so too 16:14:37 jpich, me too, +1 for a python solution 16:14:44 doug-fish lblanchard: +1, important 16:14:49 do you guys think an etherpad might help to remember the +1s and the like? 16:15:22 mrunge, jpich, the issue goes beyond mere compilation. It includes testing and development tools 16:15:41 I agree UX is an important session, though it might still need to be combined with another one 16:16:00 doug-fish: can we join http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/315 together with discussion about http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/32 16:16:21 My question regarding UX is, there are two cross-project UX sessions, should that topic be addressed there? 16:16:48 I'd expect UX and accessibility to have very little overlapping content 16:17:14 david-lyle: it would be nice - is there enough space for cross-project sessions? 16:17:43 david-lyle: can you link those sessions? 16:17:54 jcoufal: 2 UX session are already scheduled 16:18:01 * david-lyle finding links 16:18:03 doug-fish: Could you start the discussion on list about that topic either way? Not everything has to be decided within a 40 minutes face to face session 16:18:23 jpich: great point. Will do that. 16:18:44 http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/ 16:19:12 http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/e13c8775849567fe8576c16875d5c547#.U1aWfPldXoM 16:19:23 david-lyle, would it make sense to have people put their input on an etherpad like https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-atlanta-summit , so it's easier to remember where people stand? 16:19:27 david-lyle: found it, russel extended one for two slots 16:19:36 david-lyle: yeah, I got notices about the UX off topic sessions…sounds like they thought we'd have a lot to cover so gave us two 16:19:38 back to back 16:20:20 lblanchard, the question is with those, should we put your Horizon content in there? 16:20:21 lblanchard: though I think that the first one can be designers gathering and second can be more practical 16:20:48 david-lyle: I think if the Horizon devs plan to be there, sure…I think it's important for the Horizon session to have the devs around 16:20:49 or is the focus more APIs, or ? 16:21:10 this session is user-feedback-centric, maybe we can combine as well? http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/175 16:21:27 david-lyle: I think a lot of it will be process oriented…e.g. how do we work together, share, communicate, work with the teams…what are we working on today? type stuff 16:21:29 tzumainn: the etherpad will be helpful, thanks 16:21:54 lblanchard: but that can be covered in the first part 16:22:21 thanks tzumainn 16:22:21 clu_: I think this session will be very important for everyone to be at…sounds like we will have some ops in the room to discuss Horizon features needed for our users 16:22:30 np! 16:22:31 * mattf waves 16:22:39 * mattf is a sahara lurker 16:22:56 regret from chad 16:22:57 lblanchard: I think we can use second part of the session to ease the load from Horizon to cover the usability feedback 16:23:00 jcoufal: sure. I think it's just important to note that if it's not a Horizon specific session, we might not get Horizon devs there for their feedback on practical discussions 16:23:12 jcoufal: I totally disagree. 16:23:26 jcoufal: unless the devs are there :) 16:23:30 mrunge, does separation have open questions, or just needing off ? 16:23:37 s/off/effort/ 16:23:38 jcoufal: we have designs we will be showing and what to get dev feedback 16:24:24 lblanchard: why not? I believe it will be interesting for people from all projects, since the UI covers majority of them 16:24:50 and I am hoping that cross-project session will not overlap with Horizon's 16:24:52 jcoufal: Yes, I think anyone who is interested in Usability Feedback on Horizon should attend 16:24:58 jcoufal: but it should be on Horizon track 16:25:24 jcoufal: so that there isn't another session overlapping potentially taking the Horizon devs away from that important discussion 16:26:25 david-lyle: can we do voting for sessions in tzumainn's etherpad? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-atlanta-summit 16:26:38 I think that might help 16:26:48 lblanchard, first UX session has a conflict for me, second UX session is good 16:27:31 jcoufal, sure let's add a +1, -1 to topics on there, and maybe we can cull some obvious ones 16:27:39 * david-lyle wishfully thinking 16:28:02 david-lyle: +1 from me 16:28:06 What about identifying potential topics to combine? I'm looking at Do these 2 fit together into a single session? http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/117 http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/129 16:28:33 they both seem closely tied and necessary for splitting horizon 16:28:44 doug-fish, yes those two can combine 16:30:11 I think a lot of the sessions should start on-list discussions, I'm sure a number of questions could be resolved without the need to wait for everyone to be in the same room 16:30:59 It's a bit late to help a lot with the scheduling now but maybe it would reduce the scope of some discussions and make topics easier to combine 16:31:39 jpich, +1, I think the same thing was suggested for tripleo 16:31:51 jpich: +1, I will start discussions around the sessions I proposed 16:32:38 david-lyle: modular widget based approach can be combined with Horizon pluggable content? 16:33:10 certainly related 16:33:10 jpich: +1. totally agree. 16:34:24 jpich: very much agree 16:34:30 Great. We should ping the session owners who are not at this meeting and encourage them to do so soon 16:36:07 I can do this and post a comment about this on all the proposals, if that sounds like a reasonable approach 16:36:44 sounds reasonable to me! 16:37:32 I love the idea of this session http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/175 but I'm concerned about getting participation from people who aren't Horizon developers. 16:37:33 +1. what we need to do first is to clarfiy the session owners want to discuss in the session and check if there is similar sessions. 16:37:43 I haven't been to a summit before - is that a reasonable concern? 16:38:00 doug-fish: I don't think so :) 16:38:15 doug-fish: this will be the first time we are doing something like this. Operators haven't been allowed to attend design summit sessions in the past as far as I know. 16:38:30 doug-fish: These are new, Tom is organising them for multiple projects and doing a lot of work advertising them to operators. It seems very much worth giving it a shot, to me 16:38:38 doug-fish: Tom Fifield works closely with the user committee. 16:38:38 cool! 16:38:50 jpich: +1!! 16:38:52 jcoufal: I think http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/175 may come out of your http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/356 naturally 16:38:55 it did last time 16:39:05 it's our best bet to get past devs and chat with ops IMO! 16:39:46 david-lyle: operators attended the sessions? 16:40:05 It has my +1. Like I said, I think its a good idea, was just concerned that maybe operators couldn't/wouldn't attend. 16:40:24 those expressing operator type concerns, what their true role was, unsure 16:40:31 lblanchard: I think a number of operators have a few contributions under their belt, so as ATC they can attend 16:40:42 jpich: good point! 16:41:14 I definitely think it's worth having a slot for. I'd be happy to use the 2nd UX slot for this…although it is very much Horizon focused. 16:41:14 david-lyle: Probably, but I can't assure this :) But there definitely will be space for ask them questions 16:41:56 Let's continue this on the etherpad: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-atlanta-summit 16:42:07 #topic Open Discussion 16:42:54 want to leave a little time for this, if it devolves back to session planning, I'm ok with that, but others feel free to bring your topic up now 16:43:03 SergeyLukjanov, NikitaKonovalov ^^ kick off some sahara discussion? 16:43:35 SergeyLukjanov is our PTL and has a great handle on the topics like sahara v heat, which came up on the mailing list thread 16:44:07 hey 16:44:26 I'll send a response to jcoufal in ML 16:44:32 as Sahara has graduated, I don't think Horizon makes the decision it should merge with Heat :) 16:44:37 SergeyLukjanov: thanks 16:44:49 in two words sahara isn't the part of orchestration, sahara use heat for it 16:45:06 david-lyle: not proposing that, I am just trying to figure out the relationship :) 16:45:08 example of existing projects with the same layout - trove 16:45:21 jcoufal, sure 16:45:25 trove has separated panel for their "cluster" (named databases) 16:45:53 I'll try to explain the relations more detailed in ML 16:46:09 re sahara dashboard merging into the horizon, I have a question 16:46:19 do we need some time on summit to discuss it? 16:46:29 i'll add that horizon integration has been a primary goal for sahara. we only grew a cli interface very recently. 16:46:48 I don't think so, it doesn't seem controversial? We want you guys in :) 16:46:58 SergeyLukjanov: sure thing, we can continue in the ML 16:47:14 we want to make the workflow of cluster provisioning or data processing job execution very smooth and horizon first 16:47:34 my init idea is to merge current state to the horizon during the J cycle and than iterate many times on UX 16:47:37 SergeyLukjanov: agree with jpich, I am not disagreeing with merger, more trying to find the best place for it 16:47:44 out of curiosity, is there a preferred workflow when a new project integrates with horizon? 16:47:59 there is a change by crobertsrh adding a sahara-client 16:48:11 this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86648/7 16:48:33 so that's a good first step to start with I guess 16:48:41 tzumainn: Not really so far: new project submits their code, we make it more horizony if required, then it gets merged 16:48:44 SergeyLukjanov: +1 to it being in Horizon, agree with jcoufal it's just a matter of finding the right place and organization within the information architecture! 16:49:26 SergeyLukjanov: we definitely should iterate in time, but I am afraid of OpenStack Dashboard to become unstable if project just merges in and then we try to re-organize things, which are already in master 16:50:25 jcoufal, I'm not proposing to merge it as is, just to not change the overall approach 16:50:36 therefore I would like to reduce this effect to minimum (not that the solution will be perfect final version which will have to take us 2 cycles to design) 16:50:49 SergeyLukjanov: I think we are on the same page here 16:51:24 jcoufal, my only concern is that we should merge it during the Juno or we need to supply it separately again and disable in horizon 16:51:29 jcoufal, cool 16:51:38 Horizon's always aimed to support new graduated projects out of the box, so let's make sure to find at least a temporary space so we have some sort of base to work from. The first patchset tends to be larger so it takes time to merge it as is 16:51:48 I think with the newer panel, panel group and dashboard order management, reorganizing will be a lot simpler 16:51:49 SergeyLukjanov: I think Juno is no problem here 16:52:09 I hope ;) 16:52:24 SergeyLukjanov: We will make it ;) 16:52:26 * mattf crosses fingers 16:53:01 from our past experience, we need to start tests a bit earlier. devstack integration or easy-setup-dev env really helps us. 16:53:51 amotoki, sahara is in the integrated gate, there are not too many tests atm, but devstack integration should work ok 16:54:18 SergeyLukjanov: great. when I tried to run trove, it was a bit tricky and i need to explore more info... 16:54:19 amotoki, I think that we could ask Chad (croberts) to make some short doc about how to test his patches 16:54:30 SergeyLukjanov, that would be awesome : ) 16:54:36 need to run for today, but thanks guys, will continue this topic in ML 16:54:40 have a great day all 16:54:43 Yep, include the steps in the blueprint maybe 16:54:48 jcoufal, thx 16:55:03 we have a good docs for sahara re installation including our plugin for dashboard - http://docs.openstack.org/developer/sahara/#user-guide 16:55:13 he's not here, you should #action chad for bp test docs 16:55:16 jcoufal, thanks 16:55:52 #action croberts to add doc re testing his changes for merging sahara-dashboard into the horizon 16:56:06 Sahara seems to have well-formed documents :) 16:57:14 /FYI/ I add the link of the etherpad page to horizon meeting page as well. 16:57:24 s/add/added/ 16:57:27 thanks amotoki 16:57:27 Thanks amotoki! 16:58:21 If I may provide some additional food for thought on the Summit: someone in a thread or other described the summit sessions as "the middle of a conversation" - I think that's important to keep in mind, the session shouldn't come out of nowhere (start on list discussions) and isn't the end of everything either, decisions can/should/will happen on list and outside of the Summit as well 16:58:59 I need to have the schedule together by the end of the week, so I'll be acting on organizing/culling in the next couple of days. Make your opinions known. 16:59:27 thank you, folks 16:59:36 Thanks for soliciting input david-lyle! well handled. 17:00:16 thanks, SergeyLukjanov, mattf, NikitaKonovalov, looking forward to adding Sahara support 17:00:24 time's up 17:00:25 pleasure 17:00:29 #endmeeting