20:00:19 <shardy> #startmeeting heat
20:00:19 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "startmeeting" is not a valid command.
20:00:19 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Oct  9 20:00:19 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:21 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:23 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'heat'
20:00:43 <shardy> #topic rollcall
20:00:44 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "topic" is not a valid command.
20:01:06 <asalkeld> o/
20:01:11 <spzala> Hi
20:01:11 <shardy> #topic rollcall
20:01:13 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "topic" is not a valid command.
20:01:16 <kebray> o/  the bot doesn't like you for some reason.
20:01:18 <stevebaker> huh?
20:01:30 <jpeeler> here
20:01:31 <shardy> Hi all, bot seems a bit broken for some reason..
20:01:33 <tspatzier> Hi
20:01:34 <bgorski> Hi all
20:02:31 <stevebaker> there are 2 bots, ignore uvirtbot
20:02:41 <shardy> stevebaker: aha
20:02:53 <shardy> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda
20:02:55 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "link" is not a valid command.
20:03:08 <shardy> #topic Review last week's actions
20:03:10 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "topic" is not a valid command.
20:03:24 <shardy> #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-10-02-20.00.html
20:03:25 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "link" is not a valid command.
20:03:51 <shardy> Only one, re summit proposals, but we'll get to that
20:04:06 <shardy> Anyone have anything to raise from last week?
20:04:20 <stevebaker> nopes
20:04:50 <shardy> One thing to mention before we get started, is stevebaker won the PTL election for Icehouse, congrats stevebaker! :)
20:05:02 <tspatzier> congrats
20:05:04 <stevebaker> thanks :)
20:05:13 * SpamapS is here btw
20:05:21 <shardy> #topic RC2 bug status
20:05:22 <spzala> Congratulations!
20:05:22 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "topic" is not a valid command.
20:05:26 <stevebaker> shardy is still PTL until havana is out the door
20:05:26 <shardy> hey SpamapS
20:05:31 <SpamapS> stevebaker: huzzah!
20:05:47 <shardy> stevebaker: yup, then I can relax a little ;)
20:06:01 <stevebaker> only a little
20:06:05 <shardy> #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-rc2
20:06:06 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "link" is not a valid command.
20:06:27 <shardy> So we've opened the window for RC2, plan is to release before the end of this week
20:06:29 <bgorski> Region name bug probably will not land before rc-2. Keystone client is still not fixed
20:06:50 <stevebaker> we may have to punt those :(
20:07:12 <shardy> bgorski: Ok, we'll have to defer and backport for the first stable/havana release
20:07:32 <shardy> Is anyone aware of any bugs not on that list which we should consider for release-blocker status?
20:08:17 <stevebaker> shardy: do you have a way of viewing bugs without any Milestone?
20:08:24 <SpamapS> FYI we've been deploying TripleO constantly the last 2 days.. no problems found in Heat. :)
20:08:33 <shardy> Ok, cool, well please lets keep up the great work on testing & reporting issues, hopefully we'll be in good shape after RC2 :)
20:08:43 <SpamapS> (using tip not rc1, but close enough ;)
20:08:53 <shardy> stevebaker: No, I just look at the top level bug list and review
20:09:03 <shardy> stevebaker: there may be a way, but I don't know it ;)
20:09:15 <shardy> SpamapS: awesome! :)
20:09:30 <stevebaker> I think there is not a way, unless you write your own script
20:09:30 <kebray> +1 SpamapS  that is awesome!
20:09:49 <shardy> stevebaker: I've been trying to Triage every day and adding havana-rc-potential to any which look likely candidates for RC2
20:10:14 <stevebaker> yeah, I'll just be processing the launchpad mails as they come in
20:10:20 <shardy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bugs?field.tag=havana-rc-potential
20:10:35 <shardy> stevebaker: there must be a better way, e.g via scripts
20:10:53 <stevebaker> ttx no doubt has a script for everything
20:11:10 <shardy> ha, yeah
20:11:27 <shardy> Ok, any questions re the Havana release before we move on?
20:12:01 <shardy> #topic Havana Release Notes
20:12:02 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "topic" is not a valid command.
20:12:17 <shardy> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Havana
20:12:18 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "link" is not a valid command.
20:12:35 <shardy> So I'll be adding to the Heat release notes over the next couple of days
20:12:53 <stevebaker> this is where having a blueprint for each featury thing is handy, even if the implementation is trivial
20:13:12 <shardy> if you've contributed features, particularly if there are user-visible interface changes, can you please consider adding to the release notes
20:13:35 <shardy> stevebaker: Yeah, having a bug or BP for everything does make life much easier to track come release time..
20:13:57 * SpamapS isn't sure, but thinks he only did bug fixes
20:14:06 <shardy> asalkeld: Could you add some notes re the providers/environments and ceilometer stuff?
20:14:13 <stevebaker> SpamapS: limits is a feature
20:14:22 <asalkeld> shardy, sure
20:14:33 <asalkeld> it is there tho'
20:14:45 <SpamapS> hrm
20:15:11 <asalkeld> ok, could be more detailed
20:15:15 <SpamapS> stevebaker: it all depends on perspective I guess. :)
20:15:27 <asalkeld> I'll copy the format of the other projects
20:15:32 <shardy> asalkeld: Ah, yeah that's just my cut/paste feature list, feel free to add more info if you feel it's appropriate
20:15:47 <shardy> We need some upgrade notes around the config file changes
20:16:08 <shardy> and I'll add a note re the pending keystoneclient change which is needed for Trusts to work
20:16:22 <asalkeld> we don't have that "feature" heat.conf
20:16:28 <shardy> Any other known issues anyone is aware of?
20:17:04 <shardy> asalkeld: Yeah I guess we could add it, and mention in the upgrade notes the detail
20:17:14 <asalkeld> k
20:17:15 <shardy> and that the old conf files should still work
20:17:38 <asalkeld> there are a pile of new options tho'
20:17:51 <stevebaker> there is also the paste.ini changes
20:18:17 <shardy> I don't think we need to list everything, just mention significant stuff and link docs/bp/wiki for more info
20:18:28 <shardy> stevebaker: ah, yep, we should mention that too
20:18:51 <stevebaker> should we write this in an etherpad? wiki will be painful
20:19:00 <shardy> This is why I wanted everyone to hack on this, between us we can probably remember everything :)
20:19:09 <asalkeld> +1 steve
20:19:15 <shardy> stevebaker: good idea
20:19:27 <stevebaker> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/heat-havana-release-notes
20:19:29 <uvirtbot> stevebaker: Error: "link" is not a valid command.
20:19:53 <shardy> stevebaker: haha, beat me to it ;)
20:20:02 <radix> oh no :( sorry, missed the beginning of the meeting
20:20:23 <SpamapS> uvirtbot: hey, you are a ^ bot, not a #.
20:20:25 <uvirtbot> SpamapS: Error: "hey," is not a valid command.
20:21:06 <shardy> Ok, cool, well if everyone can please hack on the etherpad, then I'll copy the info into the wiki
20:21:57 <shardy> #topic Summit Session Proposals
20:21:58 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "topic" is not a valid command.
20:22:09 <stevebaker> #link http://summit.openstack.org/
20:22:10 <uvirtbot> stevebaker: Error: "link" is not a valid command.
20:22:34 <stevebaker> we have 9 slots and so far 13 proposals
20:22:44 <shardy> So we don't have any proposals from heat-core folks yet (myself included)
20:22:44 <adrian_otto> I suggest that HOT template language support be listed first
20:23:14 <shardy> Is that because you think everything is captured, or you've just not got to it yet?
20:23:37 <SpamapS> Note that there are some Heat related sessions in other tracks too.
20:23:44 <SpamapS> http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/136 <-- Savanna
20:23:54 <stevebaker> adrian_otto: do you mean HOT sessions should be first in the schedule?
20:23:56 <shardy> I was considering proposing one re deferred auth, trusts, oauth etc, but not sure if the audience for that is wide enough to be justified
20:24:22 <asalkeld> also maybe better parameter constraints
20:24:35 <asalkeld> but not sure if there will be enough time
20:24:57 <adrian_otto> stevebaker: no, in the Etherpad for release nodes.
20:25:09 <adrian_otto> s/nodes/notes/
20:25:42 <stevebaker> So I'll start evaluating what is there and come up with a proposed list of sessions, then anyone can have a chance to propose changes
20:25:51 <tspatzier> asalkeld, maybe parameter constraints is something we can work on offline on the ML for example?
20:25:59 <asalkeld> yeah
20:26:01 <shardy> Yeah, we need to refine to ensure the various key topics get coverage
20:26:30 <shardy> I think HOT roadmap, software config, and autoscaling are the big ones
20:26:38 <asalkeld> +1
20:26:46 <tspatzier> +1
20:26:50 <asalkeld> I'd rather take more sessions for hot
20:26:51 <stevebaker> yep
20:27:04 <asalkeld> maybe we can split a session for 2 small ones
20:27:10 <shardy> Yeah, may need more than one session for sub-topics related to each of those
20:27:37 <SpamapS> so there was a proposal from the Murano folk to have a pre-summit session to talk about some things. It may make sense to do a bit of small scale brain storming on the session list if we are feeling constrained.
20:27:52 <asalkeld> that would be good
20:28:06 <shardy> SpamapS: the only issue was they're suggesting G+ hangouts, which are limited to $n people aren't they?
20:28:16 <stevebaker> I'll put the session list in an etherpad
20:28:46 <shardy> Perhaps an IRC meeting would be easier and more inclusive?
20:28:47 <SpamapS> shardy: 10
20:28:50 <asalkeld> also there will be free session on other days
20:28:55 <SpamapS> shardy: which is actually bigger than I'm thinking we should make it.
20:28:57 <tspatzier> shardy, +1
20:29:15 <gokrokve> shardy: Hi. It can be anything including IRC. G+ hangouts just allow to use voice.
20:29:30 <SpamapS> shardy: I'm more thinking we should consider a smaller discussion, with just a few people, to try and make sense of the proposals.
20:29:40 <shardy> SpamapS: Ok, but I'd like to keep the process as open as we can
20:29:47 <SpamapS> we can record it
20:29:53 <SpamapS> and even stream it
20:30:36 <SpamapS> But I'm more thinking that a closed process might provoke more honesty and less political correctness. :)
20:31:04 <gokrokve> SpamapS: agree. Webcast will help others to understand what was discussed.
20:31:04 <m4dcoder> shardy: +1. i know my colleagues and i want to join the pre-summit discussion.  unfortunately, we won't be at the design summit.
20:31:07 <stevebaker> I'm hoping to spend more time on the components spec now that rc2 is close, we can have a session once I have my thoughts in a wiki
20:31:19 <SpamapS> anyway, its just a thought.
20:31:38 <shardy> m4dcoder: sorry to hear that
20:31:51 <SpamapS> To be clear, I am suggesting a _different_ pre-summit discussion to talk about and try to merge/prune the list down to 9.
20:32:12 <shardy> SpamapS: I think that discussion should happen here in our weekly meeting
20:32:12 <lifeless> SpamapS:
20:32:18 <lifeless> SpamapS: 'chatham house rules'
20:32:21 <stevebaker> SpamapS: right, we can do that in an etherpad
20:32:26 <lifeless> SpamapS: is what you're looking for, I think.
20:32:45 <shardy> SpamapS: I thought you meant a f2f with the Murano folks to sync up re Heat capabilities and their requirements
20:33:18 <SpamapS> shardy: yeah that is a separate issue.
20:33:42 <adrian_otto> shardy: I agree that subject pruning should be done here.
20:34:15 <stevebaker> should we do that at next week's meeting?
20:34:29 <shardy> stevebaker: Yup, I think that's a good plan
20:35:04 <stevebaker> so all sessions must be proposed by this time next week
20:35:08 <shardy> #info summit proposal decision to be discussed at next weeks meeting
20:35:09 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "info" is not a valid command.
20:35:19 <SpamapS> Ok, so fill up the etherpad this week, and we'll prune it next week. Sounds good to me.
20:35:21 <shardy> #info all sessions must be proposed by this time next week
20:35:22 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "info" is not a valid command.
20:35:37 <shardy> Ok, cool, sounds like we have a plan
20:35:55 <shardy> #topic Open discussion
20:35:57 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "topic" is not a valid command.
20:36:18 <shardy> Anyone have anything to raise?
20:36:25 <asalkeld> samuelqueiroz, ...
20:36:44 <asalkeld> samuelqueiroz, is going to help with scaling out docs
20:36:50 <adrian_otto> I missed the link to the topic etherpad.
20:36:53 <asalkeld> and wanted some help with content
20:37:01 <samuelqueiroz> Hi, I'm new in the community and I m working on bug 1072958
20:37:02 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1072958 in heat "Create a getting started guide for scaling out" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1072958
20:37:12 <shardy> samuelqueiroz: welcome!
20:37:23 <shardy> samuelqueiroz: sounds good
20:37:28 <adrian_otto> samuelqueiroz: welcome!!
20:37:29 <samuelqueiroz> asalkeld: yes, thanks for this introduction
20:37:35 <asalkeld> np
20:37:37 <samuelqueiroz> shardy: ty
20:37:46 <SpamapS> re scaling out: have we even touched on "the multi-engine race problem" ?
20:37:56 <asalkeld> so there are new zookeeper options
20:38:01 <tspatzier> adrian_otto, me too. And is that etherpad the master, or the submitted sessions at summit.openstack.org?
20:39:02 <shardy> adrian_otto, tspatzier: we'll review the proposals from http://summit.openstack.org/
20:39:12 <adrian_otto> SpamapS mentioned "fill the etherpad" but I think we should specify which etherpad link to use.
20:39:23 <stevebaker> tspatzier, adrian_otto: maybe the summit site has enough collaboration tools for us to decide on sessions, I'll hava a play
20:39:37 <asalkeld> well samuelqueiroz I'd suggest write something up and ask on #heat for particular questions
20:39:44 <samuelqueiroz> asalkeld: we've been working on a corosync+pacemaker setting
20:39:47 <adrian_otto> I wish it had a feature to filter by broject
20:39:55 <adrian_otto> I need to Ctrl+F
20:39:59 <adrian_otto> sort of lame
20:40:08 <tspatzier> adrian_otto, click the Topic header in the table. That will at least sort
20:40:23 <adrian_otto> oh, nice!
20:40:33 <shardy> https://etherpad.openstack.org/heat-icehouse-summit-proposals
20:40:42 <shardy> cut/paste of what we have so far
20:41:03 <samuelqueiroz> asalkeld: but it seem to me know that i should be using only a haproxy setting (as in a stateless environment)
20:41:22 <stevebaker> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/heat-icehouse-summit-proposals
20:41:22 <clarkb> adrian_otto: the source is at https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/odsreg/tree/ and I am sure ttx would accept bug repots
20:41:22 <uvirtbot> stevebaker: Error: "link" is not a valid command.
20:41:32 <clarkb> mordred: ^ see what you did?
20:42:12 <asalkeld> samuelqueiroz, you should send jason dunsmore an email
20:42:27 <asalkeld> he wrote the support for multi engine
20:42:40 <kebray> jason duns more is out of office until Monday next week, just fyi
20:43:08 <samuelqueiroz> asalkeld: ok, I m gonna contact him
20:43:09 <mordred> clarkb: what did I did?
20:43:10 <asalkeld> but as far as ha setup, I'd suggest heat would be using the same setup as the rest of the openstack projects
20:43:18 <shardy> asalkeld: We didn't merge it all tho did we, so we can't document scaling out yet?
20:43:28 <clarkb> mordred: you convinced soren to change the uvirtbot prefix to # which is what the openstack meetbot uses :)
20:43:42 <mordred> clarkb: AH. bwahahahahaaha
20:43:45 <asalkeld> shardy, there is just the locking stuff
20:43:51 <mordred> clarkb: well, we thought that was a good idea
20:43:56 <asalkeld> IMO we need that in
20:43:58 <mordred> clarkb: I admit now, it is not
20:44:01 <shardy> asalkeld: lol @ "just" the locking ;)
20:44:19 <samuelqueiroz> asalkeld: I m gonna test and learn about ha proxy
20:44:32 <asalkeld> ok
20:45:08 <shardy> One thing to mention, is we're planning a stable/grizzly release
20:45:12 <shardy> https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/2013.1.4
20:45:20 <SpamapS> change it to 💩
20:45:22 <shardy> #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/2013.1.4
20:45:24 <uvirtbot> shardy: Error: "link" is not a valid command.
20:45:31 <SpamapS> mordred: ^^ thats unicode "pile of poo"
20:46:21 <asalkeld> shardy you should review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49440/
20:46:55 <shardy> asalkeld: will do
20:47:38 <asalkeld> but if you don't want that guide written we need to tell samuelqueiroz
20:47:50 <LRengan> I am new ... just wondering if there is a list of features that Heat team is shooting for the IceHouse release?
20:48:03 <SpamapS> LRengan: see above discussion of blueprints :)
20:48:11 <shardy> asalkeld: Not saying we shouldn't write it, I was just unsure if it actually worked yet
20:48:13 <stevebaker> LRengan: that is what the summit is for, to decide on goals
20:48:28 <asalkeld> or more generally https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat
20:48:37 <stevebaker> LRengan: but this is an open source project, so roadmaps are just a statement of intent, not a promise
20:48:57 <shardy> LRengan: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/icehouse
20:49:13 <shardy> LRengan: still a work-in-progress pending summit discussions
20:49:54 <stevebaker> LRengan: if there is something specific that you want, you'll need to participate in the process somehow, or even better contribute some code ;)
20:50:13 <LRengan> Thanks for that link
20:50:27 <LRengan> Yes, I am hoping to participate .... will be in the summit.
20:50:43 <shardy> LRengan: If you wish, you can propose blueprints yourself, which we can then discuss
20:51:08 <LRengan> My interest is in the software orchestration ... there seems to be a couple of blueprints related to this
20:51:19 <LRengan> I will read them and join the discussions
20:51:23 <adrian_otto> ok, I added numbering and links to https://etherpad.openstack.org/heat-icehouse-summit-proposals for us
20:51:38 <stevebaker> LRengan: can you call it software configuration please?
20:51:39 <shardy> adrian_otto: thanks
20:51:40 <SpamapS> Note that you can work on features that did not get discussed at the summit. We just gather consensus and focus for the broader team with summit sessions.
20:52:31 <LRengan> stevebaker: ok,  will call it software configuration
20:53:21 <LRengan> What is the general feeling about the current synchronization constructs: wait-conditions/signals?
20:53:50 <LRengan> to me these seem a bit low level ... prone to classic dead-lock and race condition problems
20:54:03 <shardy> LRengan: there is a discussion ongoing on openstack-dev related to that topic
20:54:22 <asalkeld> LRengan, I think people need to comeup with ideas and we can choose the best
20:54:25 <shardy> LRengan: essentially we need better native serialization primitives
20:54:28 <LRengan> sorry, may be this meeting is not the right venue for this type of detailed discussion. I will followup on the mailinglist
20:54:35 <shardy> but we dont yet know what they will look like yet
20:54:40 <stevebaker> LRengan: I think there is scope for HOT at least hiding the complexity of the implementation
20:54:49 <shardy> hopefully we will after discussions before/during the summit
20:55:34 <stevebaker> shall we wind up?
20:55:41 <shardy> stevebaker: good plan
20:55:42 <asalkeld> yeah
20:55:58 <shardy> Ok, unless anyone has anything else...
20:56:07 <shardy> #endmeeting