13:59:58 <nikhil> #startmeeting glance
13:59:59 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Apr  7 13:59:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is nikhil. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:01 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00:03 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'glance'
14:00:08 <nikhil> #topic roll call
14:00:13 <nikhil> o/
14:00:15 <mfedosin> o/
14:00:17 <bunting> o/
14:00:33 <rosmaita> o/
14:00:43 <hemanthm> o/
14:01:12 <Steap> o/
14:01:22 <avarner> o/
14:01:36 <nikhil> let's get started
14:01:38 <nikhil> #topic agenda
14:01:44 <kairat> o/
14:01:44 <nikhil> we've a short agenda today
14:02:05 <nikhil> I want to spend as much time as possible on discussing summit sessions
14:02:15 <nikhil> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda
14:02:35 <nikhil> #topic Updates
14:02:41 <tjcocozz> o/
14:02:45 <nikhil> #info Glare updates ( mfedosin )
14:02:53 <mfedosin> hey!
14:03:06 <nikhil> hi Mike
14:03:11 <nikhil> how are things?
14:03:20 <nikhil> (in the artifacts world)
14:03:33 <mfedosin> we spent last three days discussing possible improvements of Glare architecture
14:04:01 <mfedosin> 1. we simplified our engine
14:05:08 <mfedosin> fyi engine is a thing that does policies check, notifications and access control
14:05:19 <dshakhray> o/
14:05:45 <mfedosin> code was reduced twice there
14:06:02 <mfedosin> 2. we rethought how we delete artifacts
14:06:29 <mfedosin> if you read the spec deletion was rather complicated there
14:06:36 <mfedosin> we decided to keep it simple
14:07:02 <mfedosin> first of all we got rid of 'killed' and 'deleted' statuses for blobs
14:07:18 <mfedosin> and deletion looks like:
14:07:54 <mfedosin> 1. Glare set status 'deleted' to artifact and 'pending_delete' to all his blobs
14:08:09 <mfedosin> it's a transaction operation
14:08:39 <mfedosin> 2. Then Glare starts to remove files from store and remove blob instances from db in cycle
14:09:41 <mfedosin> If something bad happens like lost connection with data storage then glare raises exception and leaves other blobs in penging_delete status
14:09:58 <mfedosin> and operator can clean the storage with scrubber
14:10:42 <mfedosin> If delayed delete is activated then only 1 step is performed and Glare misses the second
14:11:03 <mfedosin> that's all updates we have from Glare
14:11:09 <mfedosin> thanks :)
14:11:20 <nikhil> Thanks mfedosin
14:11:34 <nikhil> Are you wanting to get feedback on any of these items?
14:11:55 <nikhil> guess, that's a no
14:12:00 <mfedosin> I'm not sure if it's the best place to get the feedback
14:12:11 <hemanthm> mfedosin: just curious, how do you ensure #1 is a transaction?
14:12:20 <hemanthm> (feel free to say we can take it offline)
14:12:21 <mfedosin> if you have something to say feel free to join glare meeting on Monday
14:12:32 <nikhil> mfedosin:  sure, I was saying if  we need to link something here so that people can go and give that feedback
14:12:49 <mfedosin> hemanthm: it's a regular update
14:12:56 <mfedosin> one call to db
14:12:59 <hemanthm> two updates?
14:13:01 <hemanthm> ok
14:13:23 <nikhil> ok, mfedosin can link the spec or feedback form later
14:13:27 <nikhil> moving on
14:13:33 <nikhil> #info Nova v1, v2 updates
14:13:34 <mfedosin> set status 'deleted' to artifacts and 'pending_delete' to its blobs
14:13:59 <mfedosin> it's me again :)
14:14:17 <mfedosin> so, I proposed a spec for this update
14:14:36 <mfedosin> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/301741/
14:14:55 <mfedosin> there is huge feedback
14:15:28 <nikhil> yes and some more feedback is on this email thread
14:15:32 <nikhil> #link https://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg79862.html
14:15:32 <mfedosin> also I send an email to ML where I describe things that are done
14:15:43 <mfedosin> and should be done
14:16:02 <nikhil> #link https://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/thrd2.html#79862
14:16:10 <mfedosin> hope to find some time today to answer there
14:16:17 <mfedosin> thanks nikhil
14:16:22 <nikhil> np
14:16:33 <nikhil> I think we've a good momentum on the work
14:16:58 <nikhil> Also, the thread has some context that I got from irc conversation on -nova
14:17:17 <nikhil> the proposed changes look like something that can be done in specless BP
14:17:55 <mfedosin> em... what?
14:17:59 <nikhil> We should ad-sync on Monday (decide on a time offline) on this topic (whomever interested)
14:18:24 <mfedosin> I think spec is needed there
14:18:29 <nikhil> in a gist, the discovery related changes
14:19:02 <nikhil> I don't want to say what nova spec is needed or not needed, if possible I'd refrain from proposing another nova spec
14:19:26 <nikhil> let's try to get things done in a specless BP for things that are not too broad in changes proposed
14:19:56 <nikhil> I can update more stuff on -glance
14:20:02 <mfedosin> hmm... we need to discuss it later
14:20:04 <nikhil> moving on
14:20:08 <nikhil> #topic Releases
14:20:10 <mfedosin> nikhil: yes
14:20:51 <nikhil> THere were some release notes changes that release team was trying to get in
14:21:22 <nikhil> if you see a holler on #openstack-glance please courtesy them with a review. Thanks in advance.
14:21:42 <nikhil> that's it on this on
14:21:45 <nikhil> moving on
14:21:51 <nikhil> #topic Announcements
14:21:59 <nikhil> Two things
14:22:28 <nikhil> #info Glance virtual pre summit sync is on Tuesday April 12 1400-1800 UTC
14:22:44 <nikhil> we will be using the same etherpad for summit planning viz.
14:22:56 <nikhil> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-glance-summit-planning
14:23:18 <nikhil> if someone needs to discuss a CP topic, we may be able to give short feedback (~20 mins)
14:23:37 <nikhil> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-cross-project-sessions
14:23:47 <nikhil> those are in the process of being selected
14:24:03 <nikhil> second
14:24:33 <nikhil> #info Glance Newton-mid-cycle will be in Boston (we're finalizing on the dates with the sponsors)
14:24:50 <mfedosin> when?
14:24:52 <nikhil> Hopefully that will give you some time to start planning travel
14:25:07 <nikhil> It will be sometime in mid-June
14:25:28 <nikhil> final dates will be announced once the sponsors give thumbs up
14:25:51 <nikhil> any questions or other announcements?
14:26:01 <mfedosin> also there was a doodle afair
14:26:32 <nikhil> yes, that was to get feedback from the team. sponsors are on their independent timeline :)
14:26:56 <nikhil> if you're interested in knowing
14:27:01 <nikhil> here's the tentative dates
14:27:03 <nikhil> #link http://doodle.com/poll/2c6dqs9ab253a59m
14:27:35 <mfedosin> it also show who's going to attend it
14:27:47 <nikhil> s/is/may be/
14:28:36 <nikhil> we will have a more concrete agenda for mid cycle closer to the event
14:28:40 <nikhil> this was done to help plan travel
14:29:08 <nikhil> that document will be more accurate of the anticipated participation, schedule and related events during the meetup
14:29:21 <nikhil> moving on
14:29:29 <nikhil> (you can ask me ques offline)
14:29:33 <nikhil> #topic     Glance summit sessions continued
14:29:42 <nikhil> #link     https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-glance-summit-planning
14:30:02 <nikhil> SO, the continuation is from this part
14:30:04 <nikhil> #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2016/glance.2016-03-24-13.59.log.html#l-112
14:31:03 <nikhil> we've discussed proposals 3, 4, 8, 9 & 16 as of now
14:31:40 <nikhil> oops
14:31:50 <nikhil> 15 too
14:32:23 <nikhil> rosmaita: I am putting you on the spot here to discuss proposal #14 if you
14:32:26 <nikhil> you
14:32:28 <nikhil> eh
14:32:32 <rosmaita> sure
14:32:33 <nikhil> keyboard fail
14:32:54 <nikhil> #info discussion on Proposal #14 ( rosmaita )
14:33:02 <rosmaita> two related issues about image properties
14:33:25 <rosmaita> one is whether glance shoudl enforce metadef-defined property values on images
14:33:37 <rosmaita> the other is whether we can come up with a lifecycle for public images
14:33:40 <rosmaita> in this sense
14:34:00 <rosmaita> deployers create image 1, end-users boot from it
14:34:16 <rosmaita> somebody finds an issue with image 1, so the deployer creates image 2
14:34:35 <rosmaita> all new people who want to use that operating system should use image 2
14:34:50 <rosmaita> but some people may still want to use image 1 and patch by themselves
14:35:06 <rosmaita> so the problem is: how to "hide" image 1 but have it still be public
14:35:33 <rosmaita> and obviously this will be a series of >2 images for the lifecycle of a particular operating system image
14:35:34 <hemanthm> image deprecation :)
14:36:22 <rosmaita> there's been interest in this kind of thing for a while, various clouds have their own hacks to make it work, but it seems like a real use case that we should actually provide a solution for
14:36:42 <rosmaita> someone was in the glance channel earlier this week asking about this
14:36:54 <hemanthm> rosmaita: so these older images are expected to stay around forever?
14:37:23 <rosmaita> hemanthm: yes
14:37:43 <nikhil> rosmaita: are we trying to present a set of formal (protected) properties for this?
14:38:06 <rosmaita> i think so
14:38:09 <nikhil> I guess your problem statement is quite clear, I'm curious about the title
14:38:11 <rosmaita> actually, i am not sure
14:38:16 <rosmaita> hence the discussion
14:38:28 <nikhil> ok, so this will be something that will revolve around feedback?
14:38:45 <rosmaita> unless we can come up with somethign that we think will work pre-summit
14:38:52 <rosmaita> (that's what i'd prefer)
14:39:04 <nikhil> I am trying to collect this info to tag potential particular sessions for other tracks too (for example, this one could be operator track)
14:39:05 <rosmaita> i haven't had time to brainstorm a solution yet
14:39:19 <nikhil> cool
14:39:26 <rosmaita> yes, it would be good to have operator input for sure
14:39:53 <nikhil> I do have _some_ reservations around lifecycle management using metadata as properties can be ephemeral protected or not
14:40:24 <rosmaita> nikhil: i agree, that's why i paired these two topics together
14:40:27 <rosmaita> namely
14:40:38 <nikhil> gotcha
14:40:42 <rosmaita> expanding "common image properties" to be really common image properties
14:40:51 <rosmaita> and then maybe these lifecycle things would be one of those
14:41:05 <nikhil> hm, that's good thought
14:41:13 <rosmaita> it will help with import, too
14:41:25 <rosmaita> have specific image properties that are required
14:41:35 <nikhil> +1
14:41:37 <rosmaita> it's an interoperability thing, really
14:41:46 <nikhil> in general, it would be good to think how we can provide more context to this proposal so that rest of the clouds who may not need aren't really affected
14:42:12 <nikhil> but if you're thinking interop then may be all are involved
14:42:32 <rosmaita> so all clouds for topic (a), maybe not for topic (b)
14:42:41 <nikhil> I see
14:43:07 <rosmaita> metadefs gives us some tools we didn't have back in grizzly for common image properties
14:43:50 <nikhil> cool
14:44:12 <nikhil> rosmaita: I'm assuming you want to discuss (a) later?
14:44:31 <nikhil> or that you tied those up together in that problem statement?
14:44:45 <rosmaita> i could discuss now
14:45:03 <nikhil> sure, we've about 5 mins for this one :)
14:45:36 <rosmaita> the description is kind of self-explanatory
14:46:23 <rosmaita> so maybe no discussion? anyone have any questions? or it metadata too boring?
14:46:33 <rosmaita> or am i netsplit?
14:47:05 <nikhil> nah
14:47:20 <nikhil> I think it's one of those that may be good to discuss with other teams
14:47:30 <nikhil> particularly Nova in this case
14:47:33 <rosmaita> yes, nova should have some opinions
14:47:43 <nikhil> I want to know what other teams are using
14:48:00 <nikhil> and hopefully this feedback will help with the nova's compat layer conversation
14:48:22 <rosmaita> ok, well maybe discuss further on april 12
14:48:36 <nikhil> Thanks rosmaita!
14:48:38 <nikhil> moving on
14:48:53 <nikhil> #info Proposal #13 Deprecate glance-registry
14:49:15 <nikhil> flaper87: proposed this one, but I guess he's not here today
14:49:40 <nikhil> I think we need to give this one another 20 mins on april 12
14:49:51 <rosmaita> i became interested in it while working on a bug, and realized that the registry is a PITA
14:49:58 <nikhil> :)
14:49:59 <nikhil> One initial feedback from me:
14:50:26 <nikhil> We need to figure out which other services are using registry. for example, scrubber
14:50:36 <nikhil> and who all prefer that
14:50:59 <nikhil> may be I can replace services with tools above
14:51:15 <nikhil> anyone have comments?
14:51:30 <rosmaita> +1 to discuss on april 12
14:51:35 <nikhil> thanks
14:51:36 <mfedosin> yep
14:51:39 <nikhil> moving on
14:51:41 <nikhil> #info Proposal #12 Glance + Microversions
14:52:00 <nikhil> Well, I am interested to gather feedback
14:52:18 <nikhil> But I don't think we'd do this in parallel with other important API changes
14:52:24 <rosmaita> i agree it's worth looking into, but maybe not now
14:52:43 <nikhil> anyone else?
14:53:09 <nikhil> moving on
14:53:19 <nikhil> #info Proposal #11     Glance Store 1.0.0 Let's get the re-factor done
14:53:27 <nikhil> again, flaper87's proposal
14:53:45 <nikhil> we can just give him 45 mins slot on april 12 to discuss these items
14:53:58 <mfedosin> nikhil: frankly speaking refactor is needed
14:54:09 <mfedosin> because Glare is going to use glance_store
14:54:17 <nikhil> ok
14:54:33 <nikhil> mfedosin: but do you think refactor can be done in that small amount of time?
14:54:37 <mfedosin> and it doesn't satisfy our requirements
14:54:52 <nikhil> I see
14:54:59 <mfedosin> no, we have a layer that hides all things
14:55:17 <mfedosin> but it's better to refactor glance_store's code
14:55:23 <nikhil> well, there are some CP discussions around backward compatibility scope
14:55:45 <nikhil> I think it would be worth for you to be at that CP session on Tuesday
14:55:45 <mfedosin> and make it usable for all services not only Glance
14:56:04 <mfedosin> what time again?
14:56:11 <rosmaita> 1400-1800 utc
14:56:23 <rosmaita> oops, that's not it
14:56:46 <nikhil> yep, let's discuss the rest of the sessions next week on tuesday and those who don't get time can be discussed on thursday's meeting
14:56:55 <nikhil> rosmaita: that's correct
14:57:04 <rosmaita> oh, ok
14:57:15 <nikhil> Tuesday April 12, 1400-1800 UTC
14:57:22 <rosmaita> (i need 1 min of "general discussion" before meeting ends)
14:57:25 <mfedosin> not perfect for me but not bad
14:57:26 <nikhil> sure
14:57:33 <nikhil> #topic open discussion
14:57:37 <rosmaita> following up on my action item from last week, i put up a patch to the glance in-tree docs about "the future" of glance
14:57:43 <rosmaita> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/301359/
14:57:53 <nikhil> mfedosin: there's a email thread if you want to provide feedback
14:57:54 <rosmaita> please take a look, especially cores, so we can all be on the same page before the summit
14:58:01 <nikhil> but I'd say a bit too late to change the time
14:58:06 <rosmaita> a few people have made some good suggestions about restructuring the glance in-tree docs, but at this point i'd really like to concentrate on content
14:58:16 <rosmaita> the aim of this exercise is to make sure that we're in agreement (more or less) about both (a) where the glance project should be going, and (b) some text that says where the glance project is going that we can point people to
14:58:27 <rosmaita> that's it, thanks!
14:58:45 <nikhil> Thanks rosmaita! This is really useful effort, especially prior to summit.
14:59:38 <nikhil> #info we may have to skip meeting on thursday april 21 so, please be ready next week with any important discussions
15:00:08 <mfedosin> we can skip april 28 too
15:00:08 <nikhil> That's it for today. Thanks all for joining. Cya on Tuesday.
15:00:17 <mfedosin> thanks! bye
15:00:27 <nikhil> connection info on the virtual sync will be on #openstack-glance ~1400 UTC
15:00:32 <nikhil> #endmeeting