20:06:34 <markwash> #startmeeting glance
20:06:35 <openstack> Meeting started Thu May  2 20:06:34 2013 UTC.  The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:06:37 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:06:39 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'glance'
20:06:58 <ameade> what exactly IS glance?
20:07:03 <ameade> nobody uses it
20:07:15 <markwash> and, with the early troll lead, ameade
20:07:21 <markwash> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Glance
20:07:56 <jbresnah> wave
20:07:57 <markwash> glance is like a box of chocolates
20:08:00 <flaper87> o/
20:08:16 <nikhil> \o
20:08:43 <markwash> so today we have several more blueprints to discuss
20:08:48 <nikhil> hi5 miss doesn't look good
20:08:51 <rosmaita> tasty!
20:09:41 <markwash> I've written out the list of the ones I'd like to consider on the agenda for today
20:09:59 <markwash> but I"m happy to add other items as we go, to be sure
20:10:07 <markwash> first one on the docket for me is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/clone-image-across-regions
20:10:42 <markwash> the way I see this going down is actually a few blueprints
20:10:49 <markwash> 1) add a "Glance" store
20:11:06 <markwash> 2) add the "import" functionality thats part of Upload/Download workflow
20:11:30 <markwash> 3) add a step to the "import" process that gathers metadata from the store location / image data
20:12:02 <markwash> step 3 would also neatly accomodate https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/iso-image-metadata
20:12:26 <markwash> nikhil: you own the cloning bp, do you agree with this breakdown 1-3 ?
20:12:28 <jbresnah> i am not sure what #1 is
20:12:42 <markwash> right, sorry meant to clarify, then forgot
20:12:55 <markwash> the idea is a store that can use another glance endpoint as the source of image data
20:12:59 <markwash> so basically glance/store/glance.py
20:13:00 <nikhil> markwash: works for me
20:13:05 <ameade> how do you have 2 without 3?
20:13:12 <markwash> parallel to glance/store/swift.py
20:13:27 <lindj> So if we're dynamically pulling from another glance when needed, what if the original glance changes ACL's on the image?
20:13:29 <nikhil> ameade: think we gunna have dependecies here
20:13:51 <jbresnah> #1 scares me a little
20:14:06 <nikhil> why
20:14:07 <markwash> lindj: I think the idea is that the copy, clone operation is done once
20:14:20 <markwash> so changes to ACLs after the clone succeeds don't really matter
20:14:22 <jbresnah> but i have been dealing in test suite fork bombs lately, so perhaps i am just gun shy of recursion
20:14:47 <lindj> markwash, so in that case, it's no longer a "glance store" of #1
20:15:00 <lindj> once its copied
20:15:24 <markwash> lindj: yeah I think you're right. . there would be a "store" for the purposes of import, but we could disallow it for register or for adding images
20:16:10 <flaper87> mmh, but #1 requires that the glance image willing to copy from the glance store to have access to the glance instance that has the image
20:16:31 <flaper87> or we're talking about public images here ?
20:16:38 <nikhil> flaper87: that's why we do a pull
20:16:54 <markwash> flaper87: it could be a requirement to provide credentials to support the initial copy
20:16:56 <nikhil> pull model will auth user in first to avoid those issues
20:17:10 <markwash> flaper87: but both glances could also be in the same auth zone
20:17:28 <flaper87> ok, that makes more sense
20:17:31 <markwash> credentials -> token or trust
20:17:34 <markwash> not passwords
20:17:36 <lindj> I think we have to handle both cases where they could and could not be under the same keystone/credentials/ldap
20:17:53 <markwash> lindj: sounds fine to me
20:18:20 <rosmaita> might be easier to use download/upload in that situation
20:18:35 <rosmaita> (if not under same cred system)
20:18:46 <lindj> I guess passing in the remote temporary keystone credentials for the source-glance as a parameter to the destination-glance API is the way to do this
20:18:51 <jbresnah> why is #1 needed?
20:18:59 <flaper87> jbresnah: I was about to ask the same thing
20:19:16 <ameade> rosmaita: +1
20:19:44 <westmaas> lindj: yes - if you trust that you are sending to a friendly glance by looking at service catalog from keystone, etc
20:19:56 <markwash> jbresnah: I'm sure alternative approaches would be fine, so long as they support getting image data / metadata out of a remote glance endpoint
20:20:02 <ameade> "The regions a user has access to need be in the user's service catalog" is in the BP
20:20:48 <ameade> just fyi
20:21:02 <flaper87> I definitely like #2 and #3
20:21:06 <jbresnah> markwash: you would want to import from other stores too right?
20:21:09 <lindj> westmaas, I think if we can't trust the destination glance, we have to use a "coordinator" process to do this instead of glance
20:21:15 <markwash> jbresnah: yup
20:21:31 <jbresnah> markwash: how would #3 work there?
20:21:44 <jbresnah> some sort of store specific metadata plugin?
20:21:50 <westmaas> lindj: I think we have the service catalog and the source glance in the request and its a quick check
20:22:06 <westmaas> well, we get the service catalog as part of verifying the token
20:22:19 <flaper87> jbresnah: IMHO, should be more "container / image" oriented
20:22:19 <lindj> by service catalog, we me one central keystone?
20:22:29 <lindj> *mean
20:22:34 <markwash> jbresnah: that could work, but I don't think it is required to work. . I would okay with there being a store-specific way to get extra data on an image and having it only in glance.store.glance
20:22:51 <markwash> s/required to work/required for this bp to work/
20:23:10 <westmaas> lindj: I mean we shouldn't send this token unless we are sure we are on the same keystone - it won't work anyway otherwise, and we would be leaking information
20:23:27 <markwash> so I'd love to action nikhil and some other folks to refine the bp if needed
20:23:57 <flaper87> I'd like to take a look to the image metadata area
20:24:04 <jbresnah> markwash: i think i am going to keep quiet on this one and try to figure it out in post
20:24:05 <flaper87> if nikhil takes a look to the pull thing
20:24:06 <markwash> b/c I need to have the final bp targeted and assigned pronto :-)
20:24:40 <nikhil> markwash: i'm still trying to figure out whom to answer
20:24:44 <lindj> westmaas:  Okay, so then we're saying for the scope of this bp, that we only are doing transfers between glance's that are under the same keystone, and that if one wants to transfer images between different cloud providers, one must use a separate coordinator service
20:25:00 <markwash> #action nikhil split up https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/clone-image-across-regions as discussed and propose any new bps for havana so they can be targeted and assigned
20:25:11 <westmaas> lindj: short term we can just make the call as if its public and requires no auth - if that fails, no luck
20:25:11 <nikhil> markwash: that works
20:25:30 <markwash> implicit in that action item is to get some help from the folks here who have other ideas / concerns
20:25:39 <markwash> not that I need to say that. . lol
20:25:52 <flaper87> markwash: nikhil I'd like to help on the image metadata step
20:26:01 <nikhil> flaper87: sounds good
20:26:03 <markwash> works for me
20:26:06 <ameade> markwash: yeah maybe we should keep impl detail discussion out of the meeting, like the potential for a glance store
20:26:13 <kgriffs> flaper87: only if you recruit a few more Marconi contributors. ;)
20:26:22 <nikhil> lol
20:26:24 <markwash> ameade: agree. . I'll keep that in mind for future
20:26:33 <lindj> the image metadata will definitely have "restricted property" implications
20:26:48 <flaper87> kgriffs: LOOOOL
20:26:49 <lindj> should restricted properties also replicate to the other glance?
20:26:54 <flaper87> kgriffs: I'm working on that
20:27:06 <markwash> lindj: scary :-)
20:27:14 <nikhil> jbresnah: flaper87 it would be great if we could start detail discussion on the etherpad
20:27:15 <ameade> lindj: i think they should
20:27:26 <flaper87> nikhil: sounds good
20:27:36 <markwash> moving on to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/remove-sensitive-data-from-locations, or objections?
20:27:37 <nikhil> to me it looks like different folks want/need different stuff atm
20:27:37 <flaper87> nikhil: do you mind puting that link in the bp?
20:27:47 <nikhil> sure
20:27:56 <jbresnah> nikhil: count me in
20:27:56 <ameade> do we need to mention protected properties in the bp?
20:28:01 <nikhil> #action nikhil add etherpad link to bp
20:28:12 <nikhil> markwash: can you add the action item above ^^
20:28:15 <nikhil> ?
20:28:18 <nikhil> jbresnah: +1
20:28:33 <nikhil> ameade: for cloning across regions?
20:28:44 <markwash> nikhil: ? I think anybody can #action
20:28:48 <markwash> whoops I just did
20:28:53 <ameade> yeah, that information needs to be retained i think
20:29:01 <nikhil> markwash: ohk
20:29:08 <westmaas> markwash: no objections
20:29:19 <nikhil> ameade: i'll link it as a dependency on the bp
20:29:32 <markwash> who wants to tackle removing sensitive data from locations?
20:29:33 <ameade> nikhil: if you need the whys to go in there we can talk
20:29:54 <ameade> markwash: +1
20:29:58 <nikhil> ameade: sg, let's do it on openstack-glance channel offline meeting
20:30:21 <flaper87> markwash: +1
20:30:44 <markwash> I'm thrilled we can do this, but we gotta be careful to make sure we don't mess up existing deployments
20:30:53 <markwash> and provide some way to migrate away from the sensitive info
20:31:04 <ameade> markwash: hey i dont wanna do all that, take it back!
20:31:05 <markwash> I think swift is the only store we're worried about here, though
20:31:13 <markwash> ameade: too late!
20:31:17 <nikhil> lol
20:31:24 <flaper87> haha
20:31:47 <markwash> ameade: I'm sure flaper87 will help out, he had some work going on with this before
20:31:58 <flaper87> markwash: ameade +1
20:32:14 <rosmaita> ameade will help keep meetings running on time
20:32:23 <markwash> moving on to the related bp: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/expose-image-locations
20:32:44 <markwash> this is sort of the goal of the previously mentioned bp
20:33:21 <markwash> is this something we can only do in v2? what followup steps are needed to start taking advantage of this blueprint for better performance in nova?
20:33:36 <jbresnah> doesn that already happen?
20:33:50 <markwash> jbresnah: sometimes, if you turn on a certain config setting
20:33:54 <jbresnah> yeah
20:34:05 <jbresnah> is that not enough?
20:34:28 <jbresnah> there is code in nova to take advantage of it in specific situations
20:34:34 <markwash> jbresnah: oh cool
20:34:50 <jbresnah> it kind of relates to this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/direct-url-meta-data
20:34:55 <flaper87> IMHO, until the sensitive info bp isn't complete this shouldn't be done
20:35:01 <jbresnah> and then this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/multiple-image-locations
20:35:09 <flaper87> doesn't that exposes the store location ?
20:35:13 <jbresnah> nod
20:35:19 <ameade> +1
20:35:26 <markwash> flaper87: +1, and I'm not so H about it
20:35:30 <jbresnah> but the problem is, you may need that sensitive info
20:35:33 <flaper87> s/exposes/expose/
20:35:40 <jbresnah> for it to be useful
20:35:58 <flaper87> markwash: yeah, I'd push it back, TBH
20:36:11 <flaper87> agree, I just think we should think about that a bit more
20:36:25 <jbresnah> i would like to see what happens with multiple locations first
20:36:31 <markwash> hmm, makes sense
20:36:32 <jbresnah> it is really a special case of that
20:36:34 <flaper87> +1
20:36:45 <jbresnah> where len(locations) == 1
20:37:01 <jbresnah> ie: mult locations will have to solve all of the same problems
20:37:02 <nikhil> only we'd a way to give users temp swift url ;)
20:37:04 * flaper87 loves reading python
20:37:06 <markwash> so I should probably just mark that bp as superseded by multiple locations and add a note?
20:37:19 <jbresnah> +1
20:37:36 <jbresnah> and also probably we should have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/direct-url-meta-data depend on mult loca
20:37:47 <markwash> jbresnah: +1
20:37:51 <flaper87> +1
20:37:52 <jbresnah> or even be superseded by it
20:38:34 <markwash> #action markwash mark direct-url-meta-data and expose-image-locations as superceded by multiple-image-locations and add a note to the latter bp
20:38:43 <markwash> I love actioning myself to "mark" things
20:38:50 <nikhil> :)
20:38:59 <markwash> briefly #topic quotas
20:39:10 <markwash> i sent out a message to the list about quotas
20:39:15 <nikhil> 20 mins to go
20:39:33 <markwash> and while the quota work in keystone is targeted at H-2, I'm not super confident its going to make a lot of sense to wait on it
20:39:43 <markwash> brb 2 seconds
20:39:58 <ameade> markwash: does expose need to be set as superceded by removing creds too?
20:40:46 <ameade> i mean, remove-sensitive-data supercedes exposing image locations...does that need to be set somewhere?
20:40:57 <markwash> ameade: nope, I think we just need to make sure removing creds is appropriately a dep of multiple locations
20:41:03 <markwash> unless I'm missing something
20:41:05 <ameade> markwash: that works
20:41:16 <ameade> so we gotta make sure that happens
20:41:16 <markwash> re quotas, I'm not sure who really wants quotas and wants to work on it
20:41:39 <markwash> but I'm of a mind that if there were a patch, we ought to consider it and not block on waiting for keystone unicorns
20:42:07 <lindj> my gut feel is that anyone who really wants quota limitations for images will be using swift at back end and can use quotas at that layer
20:42:22 <flaper87> markwash: I think we should de-duplicate quotas code between nova and cinder and use that (by contributing back to oslo)
20:42:42 <lindj> (or cinder for that matter)
20:42:59 <markwash> flaper87: you should look at boson, it could serve for some of those purposes, and doesn't seem "too" crazy
20:43:12 <flaper87> markwash: I did already :P
20:43:26 <markwash> ah, okay. . sry
20:43:35 <flaper87> thing is that, maybe quotas is something we shouldn't be querying on external services
20:43:40 <flaper87> or should we?
20:44:02 <flaper87> markwash: btw, hopefully that didn't sound jerkish, it wasn't meant to be like that
20:44:04 <markwash> I'm still lending my weight to keeping quotas in with the service, for consistency and speed
20:44:12 <markwash> flaper87: lol you don't have to worry about that with me :-)
20:44:37 <flaper87> markwash: :D
20:44:40 <lindj> If we want to quota on a user's total # of images, then it has to be done by glance.  If we care about the storage space used, seems more appropriate to control that at the cinder/swift side.
20:44:53 <markwash> lindj: I'm cool with that approach too
20:45:21 <rosmaita> i think our need for quotas is still undefined
20:45:22 <jbresnah> i agree with the idea of not blocking a patch based on futures in other projects
20:45:22 <markwash> can I pass off my action item from last week about having a quota pow-wow to somebody else?
20:45:27 <flaper87> lindj: I think that requires Sotres to be extended somehow
20:45:28 <ameade> we just need to define what quotas we want first
20:45:41 <flaper87> I mean, making sure that stores can handle quotas
20:45:50 <flaper87> there are other stores besides cinder / swift
20:46:13 <ameade> ameade: +1
20:46:15 <lindj> its up to the cloud provider to use a backend that has quotas if they care about that....
20:46:22 <jbresnah> I can take on quota pow-wow if there are no other takes
20:46:22 <lindj> but don't require them
20:46:24 <kgriffs> +1 for making quota logic part of oslo
20:46:28 <markwash> jbresnah: yay
20:46:42 <flaper87> jbresnah: I'd love to help with that
20:46:49 <flaper87> kgriffs: LOL :D
20:46:57 * kgriffs wants that for Marconi
20:46:57 <jbresnah> cool
20:47:34 <markwash> #action jbresnah quota pow-wow
20:47:51 <markwash> so, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/upload-download-workflow
20:47:55 <markwash> we talked about this a bit
20:48:01 <markwash> and I was supposed to sync up with rosmaita
20:48:18 <markwash> but instead I talked with jbresnah
20:48:40 <markwash> all I really care about here is that the bp needs to be broken down into two things, import and export, and I need volunteers and approx schedule
20:49:09 <nikhil> aren't we gunna talk/discuss on this on etherpad more?
20:49:16 <markwash> but I think maybe in our conversation jbresnah thought it seemed less crazy of an idea than before?
20:49:22 <markwash> nikhil: oh maybe, did I miss something?
20:49:32 <jbresnah> markwash: i left that convo feeling good
20:49:35 <jbresnah> trying to reload state
20:49:36 <markwash> huzzah
20:49:57 <jbresnah> right i recall
20:49:59 <nikhil> markwash: maybe not
20:50:14 <jbresnah> the big thing was the distinction that upload is bits, and import is an image
20:50:23 <jbresnah> conversion/verification/etc could happen on import
20:50:25 <nikhil> markwash: guess I was curious if this would be covered
20:50:37 <nikhil> in the etherpad discussion of the 3 points that you'd brought up
20:50:59 <jbresnah> so i think the key work item there is making some sort of temp upload space, and then a means to have a work pipeline
20:51:07 <nikhil> is it time of Open Discussion
20:51:09 <nikhil> ?
20:51:19 <nikhil> don't wanna miss out on creative stuff
20:51:21 <jbresnah> potentially calling out to other services to do work (like an image conversion service)
20:51:26 <markwash> jbresnah: oh yes, I forgot, it might depend on async-workers
20:51:26 <jbresnah> markwash: is that about right?
20:51:37 <markwash> jbresnah: sounds reasonable to me
20:51:41 <rosmaita> we haven't discussed async workers much
20:51:51 <markwash> rosmaita: true, my bad
20:51:52 <jbresnah> this is probably worthy of its own meeting
20:51:57 <nikhil> +1
20:52:06 <nikhil> let's sync a bit on etherpad firs
20:52:14 <fesp> back
20:52:18 <fesp> sorry guys, stupid ISP
20:52:28 <fesp> flaper87: dude, give me my nick back
20:52:44 <markwash> can we try to grab a meeting time in #openstack-glance for async workers?
20:52:52 <nikhil> #action nikhil to link etherpad in upload-download bp
20:53:08 <flaper87> sure
20:53:09 <nikhil> markwash: +1
20:53:11 <flaper87> markwash: +1
20:53:15 <jbresnah> +1
20:53:30 <markwash> #action flaper87 schedule a meeting for glance async workers discussion
20:53:48 <nikhil> with 7 mins to go, I wanna re-ask question from last week
20:53:52 <nikhil> if that's ok markwash ?
20:53:55 <markwash> no!
20:53:57 <markwash> sure :-)
20:53:58 <flaper87> hahahahaha
20:54:01 <nikhil> :)
20:54:13 <nikhil> have you heard back from scoot about the public glance bp
20:54:14 <nikhil> ?
20:54:19 <nikhil> scott
20:54:29 <markwash> I thought I would hear back, but then I never asked him
20:54:50 <nikhil> hmm..
20:55:00 <rosmaita> has that been superseded by https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/exposing-glance-for-public-clouds
20:55:02 <markwash> which is to say I forgot to do anything about that
20:55:43 <markwash> #action markwash seriously this time ping smoser about public-glance
20:55:44 <nikhil> rosmaita: interesting
20:55:57 <ameade> jbresnah: are you going to pick a time for the transfer service meeting?
20:56:06 <nikhil> markwash: the bp rosmaita just linked does not have smoser on it
20:56:07 <jbresnah> i was just going to ask about that
20:56:20 <jbresnah> ameade: any times that work for you?
20:56:40 <jbresnah> i was hoping for something next week before thursday's meeting
20:56:46 <markwash> nikhil: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/public-glance does, doesn't it?
20:56:50 <ameade> jbresnah: monday or tues work?
20:57:02 <ameade> pretty open time-wise i think
20:57:17 <nikhil> markwash: wonder which one to follow?
20:57:19 <jbresnah> Monday is very open for me
20:57:45 <nikhil> jbresnah: let's keep this in the evening ET
20:57:55 <nikhil> so that it's not tool late here :)
20:58:02 <jbresnah> nikhil: ok
20:58:03 <markwash> #info all blueprint folks be sure to propose your bps to havana by the beginning of next week so I can make sure to accept things before the project meeting
20:58:03 <rosmaita> markwash: the public-glance is from folsom summit
20:58:12 <markwash> rosmaita: good point
20:58:27 <markwash> rosmaita: I think its possible that it already is implemented, or that nobody cares anymore, or something else
20:58:57 <jbresnah> markwash: sorry i got a little out of order there
20:59:04 <markwash> jbresnah: no worries
20:59:07 <markwash> we can parallelize
20:59:12 <jbresnah> cool
20:59:18 <markwash> (I get a little frantic with 2 minutes to go)
20:59:21 <markwash> (eek, 1!)
20:59:28 <nikhil> 30 sec
20:59:32 <jbresnah> does this same time (20:00 UTC) work on monday for interested people?
20:59:32 <flaper87> 59,58,57,56....
20:59:38 <jbresnah> for a discussion on the image transfer service?
20:59:39 <flaper87> jbresnah: +1
20:59:42 <nikhil> jbresnah: +1
20:59:42 <ameade> jbresnah: +1
20:59:43 <markwash> +1
20:59:48 <jbresnah> excellent
20:59:48 <rosmaita> +1
20:59:53 <jbresnah> that was pretty easy
20:59:58 <flaper87> hahaha
21:00:00 <jbresnah> is Iccha still off?
21:00:06 <rosmaita> back monday
21:00:07 <nikhil> she'll be back mon
21:00:08 <jbresnah> at that point i mean
21:00:16 <markwash> we didn't get a chance to talk about rolling db migrations
21:00:16 <jbresnah> hmmm, i will email her to see if that works
21:00:17 <nikhil> no
21:00:23 <markwash> I hope there aren't any disappointed lurkers. . .
21:00:23 <rosmaita> yes, she gets back sat pm
21:00:50 <esheffield> as a lurker, I am not disappointed
21:00:55 <markwash> haha
21:01:10 <jbresnah> #action jbresnah send out email about transfer service discusion 20:00 UTC 5/6/2013
21:01:19 <nikhil> or may be calendar invite
21:01:22 <nikhil> jbresnah: ^^
21:01:36 <markwash> email is fine for me
21:01:40 <markwash> but do as you will
21:02:11 <rosmaita> markwash: i will work on up/down blueprint splitting
21:02:20 <markwash> thanks!
21:02:42 <rosmaita> will aim for tues for comments before next mtg
21:02:58 <markwash> cool
21:03:04 <markwash> any last items from folks?
21:03:18 <markwash> (I don't *think* anybody has this room after us, but could be wrong)
21:03:45 * flaper87 will give a talk about glance going public at Openstack Israel
21:03:49 <flaper87> would love your feedback
21:04:15 <rosmaita> when is that?
21:04:20 <flaper87> May 27th
21:04:27 <rosmaita> cool
21:04:32 <markwash> very cool
21:04:43 <rosmaita> more exposure for exposing glance!
21:04:56 <flaper87> I will email you the slides as soon as they are ready
21:05:15 <rosmaita> great
21:05:26 <markwash> I guess that about does it for us guys
21:05:34 <markwash> thanks!
21:05:38 <markwash> #endmeeting