03:03:10 <loquacities> #startmeeting DocTeam
03:03:11 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Feb 19 03:03:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
03:03:12 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
03:03:14 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'
03:03:21 <loquacities> hi everyone!
03:04:08 <slong> hi everyone!
03:04:12 <Sam-I-Am> hello!
03:04:48 <brucer> hello
03:05:05 <loquacities> #topic Action items from the last meeting
03:05:19 <loquacities> no action items from last meeting, from what i can see
03:05:27 * loquacities goes to look at the previous meeting
03:06:14 * slong is told
03:06:26 <slong> that she has the only item, to do the Tox HowTo.
03:06:43 <slong> I did do that, asked Andreas for a review.
03:07:13 <slong> No answer back BUT in the meantime Tox installation had difficulties with my next PC install.
03:07:27 <loquacities> slong to update the howto with the new tools update
03:07:27 <loquacities> sorry guys, i'm really laggy
03:07:45 <Sam-I-Am> loquacities: did you try caffeine?
03:07:46 <slong> So, am not sure whether to include those detailed steps, or whether to leave it to Andreas to say something.
03:09:28 <loquacities> lol, blame the red hat network :P
03:09:28 <loquacities> #topic Doc tools update - 0.6 release of openstack-doc-tools
03:09:50 <slong> loquacities: I'm on the same network...blame the MAC
03:09:58 <loquacities> yeah, yeah, ok :P
03:11:04 <slong> Tox=tools...anything else?
03:11:08 <brucer> no-one blames the Mac
03:12:12 <loquacities> ok, moving on
03:12:26 <loquacities> #topic Style Guide for config strings going into HACKING.rst
03:12:49 <slong> Does anyone know what that is?
03:13:19 <Sam-I-Am> i suspect andreas would
03:13:32 <slong> who is still sleeping
03:13:37 <Sam-I-Am> yeah :/
03:13:39 <loquacities> i don't know what that is
03:13:39 <loquacities> Sam-I-Am: any clues?
03:13:45 <loquacities> ok, np
03:13:48 <Sam-I-Am> i dont know what it is either
03:14:03 <loquacities> #topic Next APAC docs meeting f2f in Brisbane
03:14:31 <loquacities> well, we're doing that now
03:14:36 <slong> :)
03:15:48 <loquacities> hi brisbane people! o/
03:15:51 <loquacities> ok, next
03:15:52 <loquacities> #topic Operations Guide edits from O'Reilly, master and feature/edits branches
03:15:52 <loquacities> i believe they're in progress, i've seen patches
03:15:52 <loquacities> and reviewed them
03:16:11 <Sam-I-Am> i've gone through a few cycles too
03:16:30 <slong> what's the end date for that?
03:16:45 <Sam-I-Am> i think end of this week for this round
03:16:52 <Sam-I-Am> it was last week, and i think anne pushed it out
03:16:59 <Sam-I-Am> which was a Good Thing
03:17:29 <slong> I didn't realise the edits were going through openstack, thought it was internal to O'Reilly
03:17:32 <notloquacity> yeah, i heard that too
03:17:52 <Sam-I-Am> hmm
03:18:21 <loquacities> #topic Proposals for OpenStack Summit due 2/14, Design Summit tracks will be set in April
03:18:31 <Sam-I-Am> do you want me to ask anne?
03:18:33 <loquacities> i think that's over
03:18:34 <slong> Will there be any doc pressies?
03:18:50 <loquacities> anne put something in, AFAIK
03:19:43 <slong> tom is still on vacation?
03:20:18 <loquacities> #topic API Docs blueprint updated: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprint-os-api-docs
03:20:37 <annegentle> yeah I put in a proposal
03:20:49 <annegentle> slong: we'll have a doc track like last time
03:20:57 <Sam-I-Am> slong: tom is around, but traveling iirc
03:20:57 <slong> woohoo!
03:21:08 <slong> We're trying to get someone there, no idea if it will work.
03:21:12 <loquacities> heya annegentle :)
03:21:17 <annegentle> heya
03:22:23 <loquacities> anything on the API blueprint?
03:22:30 <slong> anything on API work?
03:22:36 <slong> :D
03:23:08 * annegentle lurks and tries to get kids to go to sleep!
03:23:16 <loquacities> #topic Giveaways: Oxygen licenses are available, Travel Program for Summit, and Write the Docs in Budapest
03:23:35 <annegentle> not really much, other than to note that Diane's not going to do the movement of all those api spec/references to the project repos
03:24:21 <martinlopes> annegentle: is there perhaps a chance I could get my hands on an Oxygen license?
03:25:05 <annegentle> martinlopes: YES!
03:25:10 <annegentle> martinlopes: pm me your email
03:25:11 <loquacities> :D
03:25:17 <martinlopes> aww yiss
03:26:11 <brucer> annegentle: did you get my email some weeks ago also asking for Ox lic?
03:26:20 <brucer> can't find reply...
03:26:26 <loquacities> #topic Installation guide updates for Icehouse
03:26:31 <loquacities> Sam-I-Am: updates?
03:26:50 <Sam-I-Am> yeah..
03:27:00 <Sam-I-Am> i split up the huge neutron source file
03:27:00 <loquacities> ...
03:27:10 <loquacities> nice
03:27:16 <Sam-I-Am> thanks to anne for approving it quickly... only had 2 merge issues.
03:27:24 <slong> !!
03:27:25 <openstack> slong: Error: "!" is not a valid command.
03:27:34 <Sam-I-Am> thats the first step to cleaning up the content
03:27:35 <Sam-I-Am> slong: ?
03:27:50 <slong> Congrats on only 2 merge issues :)
03:28:04 <Sam-I-Am> it was... "fun"
03:28:11 <slong> Martin had a monster merge issue yesterday, we all had fun.
03:28:35 <annegentle> brucer: looking... sorry! Email has been a challenge lately
03:28:43 <martinlopes> we had our finest minds working on the issue.
03:28:53 <Sam-I-Am> also, the ubuntu packages for icehouse are "more fixed"
03:29:04 <Sam-I-Am> so i was able to build a basic system with nova-network
03:29:08 <Sam-I-Am> however, horizon is hosed
03:29:29 <Sam-I-Am> i e-mailed chuck short, but havent heard anything
03:29:33 <slong> I haven't installed icehouse at all yet. Waiting for the next RDO package.
03:29:44 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: i think i cc'd you on those emails
03:29:46 <martinlopes> a patch was commited while mine was under review, with the result that git review was unable to resolve the conflict. had to manually add the updated xml during rebase, push the change, then do another push with my new content
03:30:14 <Sam-I-Am> martinlopes: a patch was committed to a file that my patch deleted :/
03:30:27 <slong> It's those things that make us crazy!
03:30:31 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yeah I saw the chuck short ones...
03:30:41 <Sam-I-Am> i dont think anyone expected the massive neutron changes
03:31:08 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: it's good ubuntu's on it, they're usually the trailing :)
03:31:09 <zul> Sam-I-Am / annegentle: send me another email i might have missed it
03:31:10 <ddomingo> the cloud admin guide's networking intro file's too big, IMHO.
03:31:26 <annegentle> zul: the one I saw you had responded to :)
03:31:37 <zul> annegentle:  oh never mind then :)
03:31:46 <annegentle> ddomingo: yeah is that the one you'd split out into a new networking guide Sam-I-Am?
03:31:59 <slong> RDO has put out a couple of packages, but I hit issues. Blame the user.
03:32:15 <annegentle> zul: but do you know if horizon is still hosed? Sam-I-Am may know
03:32:35 <ddomingo> ah good
03:32:38 <Sam-I-Am> zul: i sent two out last week regarding horizon and some dependency problems
03:32:40 <zul> annegentle:  could be i havent looked at it
03:32:55 <zul> yeah i was sprinting last week so i might have missed them
03:33:22 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: i split the install guide's neutron source file, not the cloud admin guide.
03:33:26 <ddomingo> annegentle, is the new networking guide coming out in Icehouse?
03:33:54 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yeah just thinking of the direction the subteam mentioned
03:34:10 <Sam-I-Am> zul: i sent them on feb 12th and 13th
03:34:14 <annegentle> ddomingo: depends on how far they get on install arch really... it wasn't planned for but the demand is high :)
03:34:17 <loquacities> #topic Docs core, docs team
03:34:27 <loquacities> annegentle: did you want to speak to that item?
03:34:48 <ddomingo> thanks annegentle
03:34:58 <annegentle> loquacities: sure, basically just wanted to give a chance for people to talk about my reluctance to move to voting :)
03:35:09 <loquacities> for docs core?
03:35:26 <annegentle> loquacities: yeah, so the -infra team uses an invite system and has stuck with 4-5 core folks
03:35:31 <zul> Sam-I-Am:  ill check tomorrow
03:35:34 <annegentle> loquacities: I've found their model works well for docs too
03:35:36 <loquacities> how many core do we have?
03:35:40 <annegentle> loquacities: but I can easily be swayed
03:35:43 <loquacities> lol
03:35:46 <slong> How many do you want?
03:35:50 <loquacities> do we have many inactive core?
03:35:58 <Sam-I-Am> zul: thanks a bunch
03:36:01 <annegentle> loquacities: way more than 4-5 right now, more like 18, but not active
03:36:18 <annegentle> slong: I think it's nice to rotate reviewers so we don't burn people out
03:36:38 <annegentle> slong: so I don't have a number in mind other than probably smaller than we have now :)
03:37:13 <loquacities> we probably need to clear out the chaff then
03:37:36 <annegentle> slong: I also look for long-term rather than short bursts
03:37:53 <slong> annegentle: makes sense
03:37:58 <annegentle> loquacities: yeah I've been taking people off who aren't active, emailing to let them know
03:38:02 <loquacities> nice
03:38:21 <loquacities> i don't think i hold an opinion between invite and voting, i'd be happy with either
03:38:30 <annegentle> slong: loquacities: and always looking for input -- do we need more reviwers? Do we need "book owners"? Do we need project doc leads who would also be on coare?
03:38:38 <annegentle> core (can't spell!)
03:39:00 <loquacities> that's a much bigger conversation
03:39:02 <annegentle> the way I've done it so far is to invite people and check with current core to make sure the addition is a match
03:39:04 <slong> annegentle: we had a conversation here about book owners before.
03:39:13 <annegentle> loquacities: slong: yeppers
03:39:18 <slong> The way there's a tech lead for the project.
03:39:28 <slong> but, yes, very big convo.
03:39:47 <loquacities> i wonder if having book owners would create fiefdoms
03:39:53 <slong> Back to the invite, isn't it based anyway on how much people have done?
03:39:58 <loquacities> and then you end up with style/convention conflict between books/projects
03:40:03 <annegentle> slong: totally
03:40:43 <slong> annegentle: so, to that, am fine with invite, shows what people have been doing. I'd have no idea if had to vote.
03:40:53 <annegentle> slong: cool
03:41:42 <ddomingo> on a related note, are there no rules/responsibilities for staying core? as in, "to stay core, you have to approve/deny X number of patches within Y time" (RE: keeping a more updated list of core members)
03:42:13 <loquacities> ddomingo: not specifically, but generally, yes
03:42:44 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: i think we need more contributors :/
03:42:46 <ddomingo> i mean an automated process, so we don't have to manually review each core member every period
03:43:02 <loquacities> Sam-I-Am: +1
03:43:02 <annegentle> ddomingo: not that I know of (not for docs for sure, also not sure if any project's doing that)
03:43:07 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: agreed
03:43:08 <brucer> ddomingo votes to write a script :-0
03:43:09 <loquacities> not that i've heard of
03:43:21 <Sam-I-Am> there's just so much to do
03:43:27 <slong> annegentle: get andreas to write a vote-stats tool :)
03:43:32 <Sam-I-Am> someone earlier pinged me about the training guides
03:44:17 <loquacities> ok, i might do this ...
03:44:20 <loquacities> #topic Open discussion
03:44:27 <annegentle> heh loquacities :)
03:44:39 <ddomingo> what about if gerrit automatically nominates someone for Core once he/she has merged X number of patches? or something.
03:44:53 <loquacities> that could be dangerous ...
03:45:00 <slong> but nominating isn't giving
03:45:05 <ddomingo> ^ true
03:45:53 <annegentle> ddomingo: have you seen http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/docs-reviewers-90.txt -- that's helpful
03:45:58 <loquacities> a private email to core once someone hits X merged patches could work
03:46:07 <annegentle> ddomingo: and each project has stats like that
03:46:20 <annegentle> loquacities: ddomingo: yeah interesting
03:46:43 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: heh, the usual suspects are in there.
03:48:11 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yeah we do have new contributors, but just a few (and they're gems really). I'm not too worried about microcosmic numbers as the year over year trends are encouraging.
03:48:38 <annegentle> I'm not discouraged at all by our contributor numbers, they are trending up and high quality which is best :)
03:48:52 <loquacities> awesome
03:49:01 <slong> yes, very nice.
03:49:08 <Sam-I-Am> how is quality measured?
03:49:21 <loquacities> objectively ;)
03:49:35 <ddomingo> Sam-I-Am, i would think that if a patch is merged, then it meets upstream standard.
03:49:50 <loquacities> yeah, merged patches is a reasonable metric
03:49:57 <Sam-I-Am> ok
03:50:36 <slong> annegentle: just wanted to let you know that we'd thought here that 'reviewing' was an activity left until we had a bit under the belt.
03:50:50 <slong> Have been disabused of this notion, and will start reviewing more.
03:50:52 <annegentle> slong: that's good to know.
03:50:54 <slong> All of us...
03:51:15 <annegentle> slong: yeah that's not my intent at all, but perception is reality so let's give that boost :)
03:51:36 <Sam-I-Am> i have trouble keeping up with the different things.
03:51:43 <annegentle> slong: honestly I wish more openstack community members would feel confident enough to review docs... had a similar conversation with Rackers too.
03:51:52 <Sam-I-Am> patching seems to come first, then reviewing... and lately i'm forgetting to take a look at new bugs
03:52:11 <slong> annegentle: yes, it just wasn't talked about when I first started, so assumed (silly me).
03:52:48 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: oh me too, dangit. Need to triage those doc bugs, I've relied on Tom forever.
03:52:53 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: in my case, a lot of the patches i see involve either a) languages i'm not familiar with b) concepts/projects i'm not familiar with
03:52:59 <annegentle> he was so darn quick at it
03:53:05 <Sam-I-Am> did he just stop?
03:53:27 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yeah apparently drowning in projects after coming back from holiday
03:53:32 <Sam-I-Am> ah
03:53:43 <ddomingo> the slack seems to have been picked up, i see a reasonable turnaround on my patches still
03:54:04 <loquacities> ok, i think we can probably call it a meeting ...
03:54:07 <annegentle> I'm going to a Trove meetup tomorrow afternoon, they have a tech writer attending remotely, Laurel Michaels
03:54:12 <Sam-I-Am> this all goes back to "need more bodies" ... particularly bodies who live and breathe this stuff.
03:54:16 <annegentle> (Trove is Database as a service)
03:54:22 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: and write and stuff :)
03:54:34 <Sam-I-Am> right
03:54:56 <loquacities> ok, any other comments ... ?
03:55:04 <Sam-I-Am> i'm good. productive meeting.
03:55:08 <loquacities> awesome :)
03:55:11 <loquacities> thanks everyone
03:55:11 <annegentle> nope! Thanks y'all!
03:55:12 <Sam-I-Am> i'm more awake at 8pm than 7am
03:55:15 <loquacities> #endmeeting