15:00:35 <eglute> #startmeeting defcore
15:00:37 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jul 15 15:00:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglute. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:38 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:40 <zehicle> o/
15:00:40 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'defcore'
15:00:44 <zehicle> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.8
15:00:59 <hogepodge> o/
15:01:16 <markvoelker_> o/
15:01:20 <eglute> Hello Everyone! Raise your left or your right hand if you are attending defcore meeting! \o
15:01:22 <auld> o/
15:01:45 <catherine_d|1> o/
15:01:48 <gema> o/
15:02:27 <eglute> Thanks to markvoelker_ and hogepodge for leading last week's meeting
15:02:37 <eglute> #chair zehicle
15:02:38 <openstack> Current chairs: eglute zehicle
15:02:49 <eglute> #topic agenda
15:03:31 <eglute> please review agenda #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.8 and add/update if you have things to dicuss that are not there already
15:04:35 <eglute> if no comments on agenda, we will move to the midcycle discussion
15:04:46 <eglute> #topic midcycle
15:05:29 <eglute> we have a tentative agenda for midcycle set, please review #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.MidCycle
15:06:04 <markvoelker_> eglute: do we have remote attendance info yet (so I can send it over to John/Kyle for 9:30/Day 1)?
15:06:11 <zehicle> I think that we've officially adjusted times for remote attendees
15:06:25 <eglute> markvoelker_ no not yet.
15:06:32 <hogepodge> we're waiting on nikhil_k to set a good remote time also, and he'll need information for dial in
15:07:14 <eglute> #action eglute zehicle to work on info for remote attendance and send out updated invites
15:07:40 <eglute> thanks hogepodge for working with nikhil_k to find good times
15:08:46 <eglute> do we need anything else for the midcycle?
15:09:56 <zehicle> I think we're reaching the point of more planning = less effect
15:10:05 <eglute> in that case, I would like a discussion on meeting times
15:10:09 <zehicle> +1
15:10:14 <eglute> #topic meeting times
15:10:45 <catherine_d|1> We will need to register to get visitor badges for the people  attending midcycle on site at IBM (eglute: has sent as a list ..)  Let us know if we need to add any more names ...
15:11:27 <eglute> right, please review  the list on ehterpad link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.MidCycle
15:11:56 <eglute> #action everyone if you are attending midcycle in person, please be sure your name is on this list https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreFlag.MidCycle
15:12:19 <AlanClark> sorry am a bit slow to jump in - Did you let the midcycle attendees know that they are invited to the board dinner on the 28th?
15:12:43 <zehicle> AlanClark, I thought it was the drinks after that was open
15:12:57 <eglute> AlanClark not yet, but can update it!
15:13:11 <AlanClark> I'll update it
15:13:30 <eglute> #action AlanClark send invite to the board dinner to the defcore mailing list
15:13:33 <hogepodge> I'm in favor of going back to 15 UTC every week. I don't think we're achieving our attendance goals with the 1 UTC meeting. We can always revisit after the next summit.
15:13:35 <eglute> thanks!
15:13:55 <zehicle> hogepodge, +1
15:14:15 <zehicle> I think that we could have a chat session at that time to involve more people
15:14:18 <eglute> i am also in favor in going to one 15UTC since attendance at 1UTC is significantly less than that of 15UTC
15:15:00 <eglute> I have not heard from anyone that would prefer 1UTC, and they are probably not here during this time eitehr
15:15:28 <eglute> any other opinions on moving all meetings to 15UTC?
15:15:51 <zehicle> FWIW, I think that we are doing a good job of making sure the discussions are on the patches
15:16:00 <markvoelker_> There was Konstantin who sent a note to the list preferring 15UTC.  I'm fine either way.
15:16:13 <gema> I prefer 15UTC
15:16:27 <eglute> gema what time zone are you in
15:16:30 <gema> UK :)
15:16:36 <gema> GMT
15:16:45 <eglute> :)
15:18:05 <zehicle> my point is that missing a meeting does not prevent you from being part of the discussion
15:18:13 <eglute> zehicle i agree!
15:18:15 <gema> zehicle: agreed
15:18:57 <eglute> ok, so should we have one more meeting at 1UTC next week or switch it to 15UTC?
15:19:24 <zehicle> we're not meeting the week of the offsite
15:19:28 <zehicle> in IRC
15:19:35 <eglute> wait that is next week?
15:20:01 <zehicle> no, week after
15:20:07 <zehicle> so the next meeting would be 1 UTC
15:20:08 <hogepodge> Next week is OSCON, fwiw.
15:20:12 <zehicle> yy
15:20:13 <eglute> right
15:20:29 <eglute> opinions on next week's meeting time?
15:20:37 <zehicle> I could make the current time but not 1 UTC
15:21:02 <zehicle> my preference would be to change to 15UTC
15:21:15 <markvoelker_> eglute: I can do either
15:21:18 <zehicle> is there interest in a DefCore meetup at OSCON?
15:21:44 <eglute> I am not attending OSCON, so either times work for me
15:21:50 * markvoelker_ isn't going to OSCON either
15:23:07 <eglute> zehicle I think you should ask on mailing list about oscon meetup i think!
15:23:13 <hogepodge> that just means I may be occupied. :-) Either time works for me
15:24:24 <eglute> ok, so I will send a note to the mailing list today letting people know about the change. If anyone from other time zones want to talk, myself and I am sure zehicle will be available for discussion via IRC or email
15:24:30 <zehicle> can do - will be mainly social
15:24:53 <eglute> #action eglute will send out email about meeting time changes
15:25:20 <eglute> #topic capabilities meeting times
15:25:37 <eglute> thanks markvoelker_ for starting ML thread on capabilities meeting times
15:25:45 <markvoelker_> eglute: sure.  I'll send over a patch to infra as well.
15:25:53 <eglute> markvoelker_ thank you!
15:26:06 <eglute> #action markvoelker_ send a patch to infra about meeting times
15:26:31 <eglute> looks like capabilities meetings will start after the midcycle
15:26:38 <hogepodge> markvoelker_: there's also a bug in one of the wiki entries, saying our meeting is on Thursday
15:26:53 <hogepodge> eglute: we're running out of time for initial proposal (July 27)
15:26:59 <eglute> hogepodge the 1UTC is on thursday
15:27:48 <eglute> hogepodge good point. I will work with zehicle on it
15:28:09 <eglute> #action eglute and zehicle work on initial proposal
15:28:43 <markvoelker_> eglute: the initial proposal is really just 2015.next, isn't it?  We have another month to identify new capabilities after that
15:29:00 <zehicle> we do need to prep that for the board
15:29:12 <eglute> markvoelker_ right, and what zehicle said
15:29:20 <zehicle> yikes - that should be on the agenda!
15:29:35 * zehicle drinks more coffee
15:30:05 * eglute doesn't think there is coffee
15:30:10 <zehicle> eglute and I need to prepare a board report and setup 2015.07
15:30:14 <hogepodge> I'd be in favor of an extra meeting/call to work out how we want to try and prep .next for proposal to the board.
15:30:20 * eglute is affected by jetlag
15:30:30 <markvoelker_> zehicle: you mean 2016.01? =)
15:30:31 <eglute> I am open this friday
15:30:32 * hogepodge is available all week
15:30:41 <zehicle> hogepodge, that's too late.  we really need it this week for review
15:30:54 <zehicle> can we get it by Friday?
15:30:59 <eglute> i think so
15:31:02 <zehicle> sorry to pull us off agenda... I can wait on this
15:31:17 <zehicle> markvoelker_, no, 2015.07 would be the correct schedule
15:31:21 <zehicle> then 2016.01
15:31:34 <zehicle> we should have a .next with added caps for the summit
15:31:43 * eglute updates agenda
15:31:44 <markvoelker_> zehicle, Guidelines are named by their approval date according to 2015A (section D4).
15:31:45 <hogepodge> It seems like 07 is going to be patching up regardless, fixing some mistakes and reconciling flags.
15:31:59 <eglute> #topic new proposal
15:32:05 <zehicle> eglute, thanks
15:32:09 <markvoelker_> And we'd be submitting this for approval 1/27 according to the timeline (see bottom of etherpad)
15:32:18 <zehicle> at the last BoD meeting we committed to having a 2015.07 for review
15:32:27 <zehicle> because of 1) sub-caps & 2) new schema
15:32:36 <zehicle> IMHO, we really need to get that done
15:32:44 <zehicle> the actual impact should be small
15:32:51 <zehicle> actual impact to vendors
15:32:59 <zehicle> since we're not adding caps or components
15:33:22 <eglute> ok, so extra meeting on friday to review it?
15:34:06 <zehicle> I suspect, yes
15:34:11 <markvoelker_> I'm fairly unconvinced that having another extra guideline does any good either, though.  IMO if it's the same as the previous one (plus schema changes), then it just adds confusion.
15:34:52 <zehicle> we changed the capabilities and schema.
15:35:07 <markvoelker_> E.g. if someone goes to the marketplace and see a bunch of vendors with 2015.05 and another set with 2015.07, does he assume they're the same?
15:35:10 <markvoelker_> Probably not.
15:35:32 <zehicle> 2015.07 is the correct schedule
15:35:45 <zehicle> you could make the same statement about 2015.04
15:35:54 <markvoelker_> zehicle: how so?  The 2015A timeline says otherwise.
15:36:00 <zehicle> and 2015.07 has the prefered caps and schema
15:36:08 <zehicle> we really want to get that into circulation
15:36:23 <zehicle> 2015A timeline says BoD approves at the mid-cycle meeting
15:36:27 <zehicle> which is 2015.07
15:37:08 <markvoelker_> I disagree
15:37:11 <zehicle> not really sure why there's an objection.
15:37:22 <markvoelker_> It says at S-3 we have a preliminary draft
15:37:43 <markvoelker_> And that we submit it for approval at S+3
15:37:48 <zehicle> yes, that draft is BASED on the appoved doc from s+3
15:38:02 <zehicle> so, we have both an approval and initial draft
15:38:02 <markvoelker_> Which would be the last Guideline, no?
15:38:57 <zehicle> the schedule is written as approve in S+3
15:39:03 <markvoelker_> Ok, so maybe I'm misunderstanding what we're submitting to the Board on 2015.07 then.  We're submitting a preliminary thing and asking them to bless it, but it's not somehting people certify against?
15:39:06 <zehicle> then use that guideline as the starting point
15:39:48 <zehicle> no, markvoelker_
15:40:06 <zehicle> we are taking what's in .next and asking the board to approve it
15:40:15 <zehicle> then we create a new .next from that
15:40:18 <hogepodge> .next needs work.
15:40:25 <zehicle> and start making changes like adding more capabilities
15:40:26 <hogepodge> I need to rebase the category changes
15:40:48 <hogepodge> we also need to decide if we're going to add a new list of removed flagged tests (which I would support)
15:41:05 <zehicle> flagged tests are not part of the BoD approval
15:41:09 <zehicle> just the caps and components
15:41:16 <zehicle> and designated sections
15:41:37 <hogepodge> zehicle: no, but we might want to have a slight update to the schema to account for removed capabilities
15:41:40 <zehicle> since BoD approves the actual JSON.  the schema change should be approved
15:41:53 <hogepodge> zehicle: (you convinced me that it's a valuable thing to have)
15:42:05 <zehicle> I think we have removed caps
15:42:11 <zehicle> are you thinking of removed tests?
15:42:31 <hogepodge> zehicle: yes, for things that we removed because of hypervisor differences, for example
15:42:53 <markvoelker_> So, maybe we should discuss this offline.  I don't want to rathole if we have other items on the agenda, but I'm failing to see why would continue to approve multiple Guidelines in a 6 month period now that we have completed the "catch up" to get a Guideline that covers the current OpenStack release.
15:43:20 <markvoelker_> To me that seems detrimental to interoperability.
15:43:42 <zehicle> markvoelker_, we have not caught up until we get the subcaps and schema change in
15:43:46 <zehicle> then we are caught up
15:43:57 <hogepodge> plus there is a bug in keystone
15:43:58 <markvoelker_> zehicle: we disagree there
15:44:01 <zehicle> since that it what was communicated to the BoD at the last meeting, I think we're in very safe ground
15:44:09 <zehicle> I am aware we disagree
15:44:16 <hogepodge> we have required capabilities, but not required components. It's confusing and a problem.
15:44:37 <zehicle> components are required by the foundation for certification
15:44:49 <zehicle> they choose which marks to offer based on components & platform
15:45:29 <hogepodge> zehicle: I'll send up a patch illustrating what I mean
15:45:55 <hogepodge> #action hogepodge to rebase subcaps patch
15:46:19 <zehicle> I don't think we're ratholed - we need a decision to have  2015.07 or not.
15:46:20 <hogepodge> #action hogepodge to update identity requirements
15:46:28 <zehicle> since we have limited time to get it ready
15:46:56 <eglute> should we have a separate meeting over the phone to discuss it?
15:47:32 <zehicle> I'd rather just resolve it
15:47:58 <eglute> i do support zehicle on 2015.07, but I do want to make sure people are on board
15:47:59 <markvoelker_> zehicle: if you've committed to it then I think we have to do it.  I really hope that this is the last time we rev the Guidelines so fast though.
15:48:21 <zehicle> markvoelker_, I strongly agree with this being the last catch-up
15:48:32 <eglute> markvoelker_ right, we are still playing catchup
15:48:33 <zehicle> I had wanted these two changes to make 2015.05
15:48:45 <zehicle> and we could not make it happen, so we are stuck with 2015.07
15:49:01 <zehicle> BUT... that's putting us on the right schedule at least
15:49:25 <markvoelker_> zehicle: I think it's broken the schedule that we talked about in Vancouver, unfortuantely.  But it is what it is.
15:50:00 <zehicle> sorry we're not on the same page there.
15:50:26 * zehicle ready to move on
15:50:38 <hogepodge> Can we have a call about this later today?
15:51:00 <zehicle> how far off is the schema?
15:51:19 <eglute> hogepodge markvoelker_ zehicle i am in favor of a call later today and moving on
15:51:42 <catherine_d|1> Has DefCore submitted any speaker sessions for Tokyo ... today is the last day ...
15:51:43 <markvoelker_> hogepodge: sure, I'll be around.  I'm on the west coast today
15:51:58 <eglute> #action eglute zehicle send out call meeting info for today
15:52:04 <zehicle> 3-4 is ok
15:52:07 <eglute> #topic summit proposals
15:52:32 <eglute> catherine_d|1 i have not submitted anything yet, but it is on my list for today.
15:52:34 <hogepodge> I'm good all day (zehicle CDT?)
15:52:52 <zehicle> I did not - thought it was due Friday
15:53:30 <eglute> we can review proposals during the call as well. also, on IRC?
15:53:41 <markvoelker_> catherine_dl1: I have a talk on interoperable networking lined up that touchs on defcore (with a couple of nova/neutron folks)
15:53:45 <eglute> anyone else submit it?
15:53:45 <hogepodge> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tokyo-defcore-talks
15:53:53 <eglute> thanks hogepodge
15:53:53 <hogepodge> talk collaboration
15:53:58 <eglute> was looking for that
15:54:01 <hogepodge> I can submit something too.
15:54:40 <zehicle> makes sense
15:54:45 <eglute> hogepodge please do! let me know what
15:54:45 <catherine_d|1> I have sumit 1 for Refstack ...
15:54:55 <zehicle> hogepodge, I'm assuming that summit planners will also setup a community time for us
15:55:02 <zehicle> so we have to ask for that special?
15:55:17 <zehicle> since we'll want to have a community session on new capabilities
15:55:20 <zehicle> as per 2015A
15:55:20 <hogepodge> zehicle: we do, but I can probably get something. It's harder for Tokyo because space is highly constrained
15:55:44 <zehicle> we need a place to discuss .next
15:55:48 <hogepodge> zehicle: but yes, this falls under the category of institutional talk
15:56:58 * eglute notes only 4 min left
15:57:35 <eglute> can everyone comment on #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188661/
15:57:36 <zehicle> #agenda flag patch
15:57:42 <zehicle> #topc flag patch
15:57:53 <zehicle> #topic flag patch
15:58:02 * zehicle and yet, more coffee
15:58:37 <eglute> #action everyone review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/188661/
15:58:52 <eglute> thanks to all that been commenting, good discussion there
15:58:58 <eglute> would appreciate other feedback as well
15:59:34 <zehicle> are we done with it?
15:59:43 <eglute> markvoelker_ still has -1 on it
15:59:46 <zehicle> ok
16:00:00 <eglute> so want to make sure his comments are addressed before merging
16:00:06 <markvoelker_> YEah, purp and I have been discussing
16:00:35 <markvoelker_> he's got another patch lined up that we've been talking about but I don't think he's pushed it yet
16:00:48 <markvoelker_> I just spoke with him this morning so I think it should go up shortly
16:00:54 <zehicle> we'll wait for you both to +1
16:01:03 <zehicle> I'm ok w/ the changes being proposed
16:01:11 <markvoelker_> If you read the comments on the latest patch you can get a sense of what he's planning
16:01:18 <eglute> we also need people to comment on other open patches. #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/defcore,n,z
16:01:22 <zehicle> if anyone objects, now is the time to raise the -1s
16:01:54 <eglute> we are out of time. further discussion in defcore irc.
16:02:05 <eglute> thanks everyone!
16:02:06 * markvoelker_ runs off to another meeting he's late for
16:02:08 <eglute> #endmeeting