15:00:12 <gordc> #startmeeting ceilometer
15:00:12 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Jun  4 15:00:12 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gordc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:13 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:16 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'
15:00:27 <ildikov> o/
15:00:43 <gordc> welcome back folks
15:00:46 <eglynn> o/
15:00:51 <ityaptin> hi!
15:01:23 <karolyn> o/
15:01:26 <_nadya_> o/
15:01:33 <jasonamyers> o/
15:01:37 <prad> o/
15:01:38 <jd__> o/
15:01:55 <idegtiarov_> o/
15:01:58 <gordc> let's get going.
15:02:03 <gordc> #topic vancouver round up
15:02:23 <gordc> i hope you all had a good time in vancouver a few weeks ago.
15:02:37 <gordc> i think we covered quite a bit... or at least what we hoped to
15:02:49 <cdent> o/
15:02:53 <gordc> here's the executive summary of what we covered: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-May/064817.html
15:03:12 <sileht> o/
15:03:14 <gordc> the work items and assignees can be found here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-ceilometer-contributors-meetup
15:03:36 <gordc> for those who have something assigned to them. if you could, can you place an expected target next to the item
15:03:57 <gordc> just so we can gauge whether we should assign more resources to certain items
15:04:19 <gordc> i'll keep it on etherpad for now as apparently google docs isn't available everywhere.
15:04:42 <cdent> yeah, I've got a question on the agents split. I'm the name on that but fabio has started a spec, so what's the plan there. I'm happy either way
15:04:43 <ildikov> will we track this etherpad on the meetings?
15:04:58 <gordc> that work with everyone? i'll probably ping you individually if i don't see a date so if you don't want to talk to me. put a date.
15:05:23 <ildikov> gordc: :)
15:05:41 <gordc> ildikov: sure. let's do that... i think first few weeks we can assume people are just ramping up. but we can reference it.
15:05:57 <gordc> cdent: ... hmm.. take it back.lol
15:06:12 <gordc> cdub: i'll check with fabiog his plans... haven't seen him around recentlhy
15:06:16 <gordc> cdent*
15:06:32 <ildikov> gordc: sure, agreed, I just thought that later it will be informative to see where we need more hands, etc.
15:06:56 <gordc> ildikov: agreed. good idea
15:07:16 <gordc> it's an honour system as always. don't make my life difficult by deleting the etherpad
15:07:33 <jasonamyers> :p
15:07:59 <gordc> cool cool if there's no questions or anything add we can move on...
15:08:02 <gordc> we got a lot on agenda
15:08:31 <gordc> #topic Quick vote and decision on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/184307/
15:08:36 <gordc> jd__: all yours
15:09:35 <jd__> yeah I need people to +2a
15:09:36 <eglynn> gordc: are we voting on the idea or just on the proposed names for the split-out repo?
15:09:39 <jd__> especially on the name of the thing
15:10:18 <gordc> eglynn: so i think the idea is pretty much agreed upon from the summit
15:10:24 <gordc> i think we consider names
15:10:28 <eglynn> gordc: agreed
15:10:50 <gordc> i didn't yet check out the scope of what is split but i think it should be ok.
15:10:57 * eglynn likes Aodh ... but I'm a sucker for silent consonants, being Irish and all :)
15:11:23 <gordc> eglynn: i was just going to ask you for fancy names... and you did not disappoint
15:11:30 <ildikov> eglynn: lol :)
15:11:50 <gordc> eglynn: i assume that ends up being pronounced completely different from how it's spelt
15:12:17 <eglynn> like 'A' ... to rhyme with May
15:12:18 <gordc> jd__: do you want a vote for name?
15:12:39 <jd__> yes
15:12:41 <jd__> or an agreement :)
15:12:57 <gordc> let's give a vote a try to point us in right direction
15:13:09 * gordc wonders how #vote works
15:13:28 <eglynn> just boolean (y/n) options I think?
15:13:41 <gordc> * aodh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aodh_(given_name) (Alarm Over Data Heuristically/Helpfully/Hopefully)* Lanterne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanterne_(pasta)  50 * Mezzelune https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezzelune  51 * Ravioli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravioli  52    * Spätzle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A4tzle  53 * Campanelle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campanelle (a bell-shaped pasta. Alarms, bells…)
15:13:55 <gordc> eglynn: oh. i guess that doesn't work.
15:14:11 <cdent> yeah, you can only +1 0 or -1 on a vote
15:14:25 <cdent> # vote lets do it and call it aodh
15:14:36 <cdent> (but without the space)
15:14:41 <jd__> ok
15:14:55 * eglynn concurs
15:14:59 <gordc> #vote lets do it and call it aodh
15:15:04 <gordc> don't work
15:15:21 <cdent> 3
15:15:24 <gordc> let's just assume we're all leaning towords aodh
15:15:31 <eglynn> gordc ... # startvote ?
15:15:34 <cdent> #startvote lets do it and call it aodh
15:15:35 <openstack> Only the meeting chair may start a vote.
15:15:39 <cdent> there we go
15:15:44 <gordc> #startvote lets do it and call it aodh
15:15:45 <openstack> Unable to parse vote topic and options.
15:15:50 <gordc> lol
15:15:53 <cdent> fdashfasfdaslfkdasf
15:15:55 <gordc> this is too difficult.
15:16:05 <gordc> anyone else have a preference?
15:16:17 <gordc> else let's just say aodh
15:16:20 <cdent> http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/irc.html#voting
15:16:24 <eglynn> gordc ... example # startvote Should we vote now? Yes, No, Maybe
15:16:25 <cdent> apparently you can make choices
15:16:49 <eglynn> #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/irc.html
15:17:33 <gordc> #startvote what's the new alarm name? aodh, lanterne, mezzelune, ravioli, campanelle, spatzle
15:17:34 <openstack> Begin voting on: what's the new alarm name? Valid vote options are aodh, lanterne, mezzelune, ravioli, campanelle, spatzle.
15:17:35 <openstack> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
15:17:58 <gordc> #vote aodh
15:18:12 <idegtiarov_> #vote Maybe
15:18:13 <openstack> idegtiarov_: Maybe is not a valid option. Valid options are aodh, lanterne, mezzelune, ravioli, campanelle, spatzle.
15:18:17 <gordc> lol
15:18:18 <prad> #vote aodh
15:18:21 <eglynn> #vote aodh
15:18:24 <jasonamyers> #vote aodh
15:18:24 <ildikov> #vote aodh
15:18:33 <cdent> #vote aodh
15:18:34 * jd__ does not care
15:18:43 <idegtiarov_> #vote aodh
15:18:46 <cdent> #showvote
15:18:46 <openstack> aodh (7): ildikov, jasonamyers, cdent, eglynn, prad, gordc, idegtiarov_
15:18:51 <gordc> ok, i think we just burned through time. at least we know how voting works now.
15:18:54 <ildikov> jd__: that's not a valid option :)
15:18:58 <cdent> \o/
15:19:00 <ityaptin> #vote aodh
15:19:09 <rjaiswal> #vote aodh
15:19:13 <gordc> 10 sec
15:19:32 <gordc> #endvote
15:19:33 <openstack> Voted on "what's the new alarm name?" Results are
15:19:34 <openstack> aodh (9): ildikov, rjaiswal, jasonamyers, cdent, eglynn, prad, gordc, ityaptin, idegtiarov_
15:20:02 <gordc> cool. we learned extreme democracy.
15:20:20 <gordc> i guess if we can review the spec we should be good to go.
15:20:27 <jd__> i'll update the spec
15:20:45 <jd__> I've already started to work on a patch so I might have this new repo done quickly
15:20:55 <gordc> jd__: cool stuff.
15:21:11 <gordc> #topic "subscribing" to the guidelines produced by the api-wg
15:21:18 <gordc> cdent: go for it
15:21:46 <cdent> just sort of an update to the question of "do we need to follow the guidelines from the working group"
15:22:23 <cdent> I brought it up at one of the conference sessions that sometimes (e.g. gnocchi) there's a desire to not follow the guidelines (on use of HTTP 501 response code for example)
15:22:40 <cdent> there's no stick inovolved in the guidelines, the basic statements are:
15:23:02 <cdent> if you don't follow the guidelines you're not "being openstack" and/or you won't get the "follows-the-api-guidelines" tag
15:23:12 <cdent> neither of these things seem particularly relevant
15:23:37 <gordc> until you get branded for real.
15:23:43 <cdent> but we may want to keep it in mind as we develop api related stuff: there are good reasons for why the guidelines are ending up as they are
15:23:55 <gordc> what's the reason for exception in gnocchi?
15:24:05 <gordc> or is it something best left for off meeting?
15:24:23 <cdent> the debate on when to use 501 is long and complicated
15:24:30 <cdent> so probably best not to revisit here
15:24:48 <eglynn> cdent: is the "follows-the-api-guidelines" tag for real?
15:24:51 <cdent> there is a question underlying all this though and that is: do we care? do we want to do something about it?
15:24:54 <gordc> cdent: cool cool. "the debate on when to use <any stardard> is long and complicated"
15:25:04 <ildikov> cdent: are there other exceptions too?
15:25:07 <cdent> eglynn: it is "forthcoming" according to lifeless
15:25:31 <eglynn> wow
15:25:32 <gordc> cdent: i think we care. it's just easier if things happen as expected with common results.
15:25:42 <gordc> eglynn: yeah... tags...
15:25:44 <cdent> I'm not currently aware of other exceptions yet, but a) the guidelines are nowhere near complete nor published b) I haven't had a chance to do a full audit
15:25:45 <ildikov> eglynn: this whole tagging story is under discussion as much as I know, but I think it will be soon
15:25:45 <eglynn> tags certainly are the new hammer
15:26:02 <cdent> yes, eglynn, that's what I said in response...
15:26:41 <ildikov> eglynn: yeap, but we still need to keep in mind to have some...
15:26:42 <gordc> cool cool. i guess we should try to follow whatever exists so long as it seems logical
15:26:48 <jasonamyers> ops tags sound brutal on the ops list
15:26:50 <eglynn> tags can only capture a boolean distinction ... whereas there's likely to a wide spectrum from slavishingly following the api-wg guideline to pointedly ignoring them
15:27:01 <cdent> Something to keep in mind is that there is a relatively small coterie of people validating the guidelines with any real authority (due to experience) and I'm in that group, so we can shape the guidelines quite a bit
15:27:32 * gordc adds a tag rant topic for open discussion.
15:27:46 <cdent> but I don't want to get into a situation where we get lost in the bikeshed here, there's enough of that going on in the api-wg itself
15:27:47 <ildikov> cdent: cool, I just wanted to ask
15:28:47 <gordc> cdent: i think as long as the services follow the guidelines to some degree, we'll all be in somewhat the same direction.
15:28:47 <cdent> there's an active process in nova for api developments: if no guidelines exist for somethign that is ambiguous, create a guideline first, then make the nova changes
15:28:56 <cdent> I don't reckon we need that for us, but it is there as an option
15:29:06 <eglynn> what happened to the idea of the api-wg being a repository of knowledge and enlightenment that projects would naturally buy into, as opposed to holding a big stick?
15:29:12 <cdent> we have the advantage of being small and friendly
15:29:31 <eglynn> by far the biggest nova API change in recent times was microversioning
15:29:34 <eglynn> IMO at least
15:29:54 <eglynn> yet the api-wg had no input to that?
15:29:59 <ildikov> eglynn: no bug change with microversions :)
15:30:02 <cdent> that's (education) still the goal by most people eglynn, it's just when the question of "what about when someone doesn't  want to follow an important rule" where things enter into discussion of enforement
15:30:21 <cdent> there' s a pending review on microversioning
15:31:03 <eglynn> well, retrospectively, right?
15:31:23 <eglynn> as in ... not guideline first, change after?
15:31:31 <eglynn> anyhoo, we digress
15:31:46 <cdent> yes, but all the guidelines are effectively retrospective inclusion of rules that already exist because they are simply recapitulating what ought to be good web behavior
15:31:48 <gordc> tbh, i don't really care about the tags but cdent you can keep us relatively aligned.
15:32:23 <cdent> thanks gordc that's pretty much what I'm after is a statement of how much we care and it sounds like "we'd like to be good citizens but aren't going to be uptight about it" which seems sane
15:32:51 <gordc> cdent:  seems like a good politically-correct response.
15:33:11 <gordc> on to the next?
15:33:27 <gordc> #topic recurring: ceilometerclient release?
15:33:37 <cdent> #agreed we'll be good citizens with regard to api-wg but not uptight about it
15:33:47 <gordc> i am tracking nothing for this... anyone else?
15:34:11 <gordc> cool, this topic was fun. next.
15:34:15 <jasonamyers> ha
15:34:17 <cdent> yay!
15:34:23 <gordc> #topic recurring: Gnocchi status
15:34:38 <gordc> jd__: sileht: anything?
15:34:56 <eglynn> cdent: "we'd like to be good citizens but aren't going to be uptight about it" makes sense ... with the caveat, "pretty, pretty please, don't use tags for this"
15:34:58 <jd__> I'm working on making the API and processing more async
15:35:15 <jd__> other than that, no big news I guess
15:35:33 <gordc> jd__: yay! async!
15:35:48 <jd__> that should make things much faster
15:35:50 <cdent> I've started experimenting with some gabbi-based functional testing things, just to get a better idea of how things work in a real installed system, I think this will likely result in some exploratory tools
15:35:52 <sileht> no thing special, I wrote a piece of code to plug gnocchi with grafana
15:36:04 <jd__> sileht: does it work now?
15:36:22 <gordc> i think so too. the processing was a bit sluggish.
15:36:23 <sileht> jd__, I have a trouble with keystone and their proxy stuffs
15:36:30 <jd__> ok :(
15:36:38 <sileht> jd__, otherrise I have implemented all your query in their system
15:36:42 <jd__> awesome
15:36:48 <sileht> (our queries)
15:36:50 <jd__> wwwwannnnts
15:36:51 <gordc> sileht: you need contacts in keystone for help?
15:37:01 <jd__> "I know people"
15:37:23 <gordc> i don't know people. i was just going to link irc channel. :P
15:37:25 <sileht> gordc, my issue is in grafana
15:37:31 <gordc> ah i see.
15:37:59 <gordc> not sure they have experience with that.
15:38:40 <gordc> sileht: let me know if you hit a wall. i can try redirecting issue somewhere... i don't know where yet.
15:38:57 <sileht> I have published my code here: https://github.com/sileht/grafana2-gnocchi-datasource-plugin
15:40:00 <gordc> sileht: nice. and it'll exist as something outside for gnocchi?
15:40:04 <gordc> outside of*
15:40:46 <dstanek> sileht: just stop in to #openstack-keystone if you need help
15:41:01 <dstanek> keystone help that is
15:41:08 <sileht> dstanek, thx
15:41:23 <gordc> dstanek: that was the link i was all the help i was going to give.
15:41:28 <gordc> hmm
15:41:36 <gordc> i typed two different sentences in one
15:41:40 <sileht> gordc, this is a plugin for grafana so perhaps the grafana-plugins code tree make sense
15:41:50 <gordc> sileht: makes sense
15:42:04 <dstanek> gordc: that's because you are efficient
15:42:17 <gordc> dstanek: thanks!lol
15:42:23 <gordc> cool anything else gnocchi related?
15:42:44 <gordc> #topic Midcycle Meetup
15:42:59 <gordc> not sure who added this.
15:43:02 <jasonamyers> Do we normally have a midcycle?
15:43:07 <jasonamyers> I did
15:43:11 <gordc> jasonamyers: ah i see.
15:43:30 <ildikov> jasonamyers: we had one and the next one we cancelled
15:43:33 <gordc> jasonamyers: so we skipped the midcycle in kilo because we couldn't get enough attendees
15:43:50 <jasonamyers> ahh okay
15:43:50 <gordc> jasonamyers: generally we need someone to offer as host
15:44:01 <gordc> we can talk about it though.
15:44:10 <cdent> on the beach near my house
15:44:15 <gordc> i don't know if anyone has concerns about budget
15:44:16 <jasonamyers> Cisco will gladly host at RTP
15:45:02 <gordc> jasonamyers: cool. rtp might be ok... might be an issue for devs in russia/china.
15:45:11 <prad> thats 4 miles from where i live.. so +1 from me :P
15:45:25 <prad> but yea the rest of the team is far far away
15:45:27 <gordc> so we have cdents house and rtp.
15:45:32 <jasonamyers> we have other offices, but rtp was the first one they offered
15:46:00 <jasonamyers> if their is another office that works I can see about that as well
15:46:03 <gordc> jasonamyers: maybe you can get a more euro based option. and possible time?
15:46:36 <gordc> for all the contributors we can start asking our managers for pots of gold...
15:46:46 <jasonamyers> will do
15:46:54 <gordc> ask for something really big so it makes a plane ticket seem more reasonable
15:47:03 <ildikov> jasonamyers: gordc: the Nova folks had an eventbrite registration or smth like just to see how many attendees they can expect
15:47:16 <ildikov> maybe we could do smth similar, it was announced on the dev list
15:47:29 <gordc> ildikov: good idea
15:47:45 <gordc> ildikov: i'll look into that.
15:48:03 <ildikov> I would prefer Ireland, I still have a corporate plane ticket to there...
15:48:21 <ildikov> gordc: cool, tnx
15:48:23 <jasonamyers> we do have a nice office outside of dublin
15:48:49 <ildikov> jasonamyers: cool, sounds nice to me :)
15:49:04 <gordc> ... ildikov always gets what she asks for.
15:49:16 <jasonamyers> Ill get on it
15:49:30 <gordc> cool stuff... thanks for taking lead on that jasonamyers
15:49:36 * ildikov tries hard at least :)
15:49:43 <gordc> jasonamyers: anything else you need?
15:50:09 <gordc> assume no.
15:50:14 <gordc> #topic Short term solution vote and decision on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/171826/
15:50:19 <gordc> rjaiswal: floor is yours
15:50:30 <gordc> i practiced my voting skills
15:51:23 <jasonamyers> Im good
15:51:35 <rjaiswal> gordc: thx, yes, we need a vote on the short term approach on this - file polling or HUP-signal to achieve pipeline reloading
15:51:56 <ildikov> short term is solving the config reload on pipeline level?
15:52:04 <gordc> rjaiswal: ... that seems too complex for a irc vote.lol
15:52:40 <rjaiswal> gordc: assuming the options and pros/cons were discussed in the summit
15:52:46 <gordc> i guess we did agree on some form of file based refresh.
15:53:03 <rjaiswal> other potential options are using olso to reload config file
15:53:18 <ildikov> I think the file based approach does not prevent us to switch to datastore later
15:53:28 <gordc> jd__: want to remove your -2?  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/171826/
15:53:53 <jd__> gordc: I need to re-read it I guess?
15:54:05 <gordc> jd__: sure.
15:54:18 <gordc> rjaiswal: did you refresh spec with options? i didn't read it tbh.
15:54:21 <ildikov> so I think we can start there and then if the pipeline rebuild is done with file reload, then we still have ways forward
15:54:49 <gordc> i don't know if you have quick pitch on what pro/con of each option is?
15:54:58 <gordc> rjaiswal: or we can just read the spec
15:54:58 <rjaiswal> gordc: i havn't, i was thinking of another spec for the short term approach
15:55:37 <gordc> rjaiswal: ah i see... i think that might be a good idea. i don't think we all have a sense of your proposal and what the alternatives are
15:55:52 <gordc> rjaiswal:  i think you can present an option you feel is best and we can go from there.
15:55:56 <rjaiswal> gordc: sure, so the file reloading is easiest to achieve, but error-prone
15:56:19 <rjaiswal> since there is no coordination among agents to use a single pipeline
15:57:05 <gordc> rjaiswal: kk. yeah. i think if we drop that in a short spec we can all take a look and provide feedback. i don't think we'll be able to come to conclusion in 3 minutes
15:57:25 <gordc> rjaiswal: we can keep this on the meeting for next week if we haven't decide by then? sound good?
15:57:34 <rjaiswal> gordc: yes, i can work on a spec and pull in feedback from etherpad
15:57:44 <gordc> rjaiswal: cool stuff.
15:57:52 <rjaiswal> gordc: yes, sounds god, shud have it ready by then
15:58:03 <gordc> rjaiswal: awesome
15:58:08 <rjaiswal> gordc: thanks
15:58:21 <gordc> #topic open discussion
15:58:29 <rjaiswal> ildikov, __jd: thanks
15:58:33 <gordc> 1 minute to do whatever
15:58:57 <cdent> tags throwdown
15:59:11 <ildikov> rjaiswal: np, add to the review please, if you have a new spec
15:59:19 <gordc> cdent: ... don't ask me about tags... i will rant... and i will get fired.lol
15:59:41 <gordc> cdent: don't ask me about <anything>... i will rant... and i will get fired.
15:59:48 * cdent would like to see that
15:59:53 <gordc> ok.
16:00:02 <gordc> end of time
16:00:06 <gordc> #endmeeting