15:01:02 <eglynn-office> #startmeeting ceilometer
15:01:03 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Feb 19 15:01:02 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglynn-office. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:05 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:01:07 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'
15:01:20 <eglynn-office> o/
15:01:24 <idegtiarov> o/
15:01:40 <fabiog> o/
15:01:41 <_elena_> o/
15:01:42 <ildikov> o/
15:02:05 <cdent> o/
15:02:31 <eglynn-office> #topic kilo-3 status
15:02:37 <eglynn-office> #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/kilo-3
15:03:07 <fabiog> eglynn-office: we really need to move this forward, otherwise the API and Agents work will be late: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142592/
15:03:22 <ityaptin> o/
15:03:49 <cdent> fabiog: as far as I can tell it is moving forward as fast as it can, given that it is far more complicated than initially imagined
15:04:04 <eglynn-office> fabiog: conf-datastore-agents is currently "Not Started" ... is that accurate?
15:04:05 <ildikov> eglynn-office: the disk meters patch is merged already
15:04:20 <eglynn-office> fabiog: does work on the BPs need to be strictly serialized?
15:04:34 <fabiog> eglynn-office: no it is started, it is only waiting for the API changes to hook into it
15:05:02 <eglynn-office> fabiog: OK, "slow progress" or "good progress" be more accurate?
15:05:02 <fabiog> eglynn-office: here it is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150642/
15:05:34 <fabiog> eglynn-office: I think is a good progress. Is it 90% done it only needs the v2 client stubs to connect into
15:05:54 <eglynn-office> fabiog: I'll jump in on both those reviews ... but as cdent said above, complex code can take a while to shephard over the line
15:06:04 <eglynn-office> fabiog: coolness, I'll update the status now
15:06:14 <fabiog> eglynn-office: thanks a lot
15:07:03 <eglynn-office> other than, I'm most concerned with instance-autorestart
15:07:14 <eglynn-office> since this was already bumped k1->k2->k3
15:07:33 <eglynn-office> I haven't heard from Einav, so I suspect at this stage it won't make it for kilo
15:08:29 <eglynn-office> just a quick reminder of the date ... kilo-3 is Mar 19th, feature proposal freeze is Mat 5th
15:08:33 <ildikov> eglynn-office: I'm not even sure we really need that one...
15:08:33 <eglynn-office> *Mar 5th
15:09:02 <eglynn-office> ildikov: yep, it seems to have been partially based on a mis-understanding of how things currebtly work
15:09:30 <eglynn-office> anything else on k3?
15:09:48 <ildikov> eglynn-office: and additionally it's an example for the non-metric meters that we try to get rid of with gordc now
15:10:00 <cdent> just a note to say that some tests that don't work with HASHSEED random have leaked back into the test suite
15:10:05 <ildikov> eglynn-office: I think iops bp is implemented too
15:10:28 <cdent> but there's as yet no progress on the wsmeext-based problem that is holding up that bug
15:10:50 <eglynn-office> ildikov: now marked as such, thanks
15:10:59 <cdent> (I had it fail locally for me recently but then when I tried to trace it with instrumentation I could get a failure again with a few hundred tries)
15:11:04 <cdent> couldn't
15:11:24 <ildikov> eglynn-office: just like disk meters
15:11:38 <eglynn-office> cdent: darned Heisenbug! :(
15:12:41 <ildikov> eglynn-office: tnx :)
15:13:31 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: are we expecting more regex support in different drivers for regexp-in-complex-query ?
15:13:42 <eglynn-office> ildikov: ... landed for sql-a and mongo IIRC, but not hbase?
15:13:52 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: ^^^
15:14:00 <eglynn-office> ildikov: sorry, bad tab completion
15:14:06 <ildikov> eglynn-office: I remember those two for sure
15:14:29 <ityaptin> eglynn: currently, only hbase is overboard .
15:14:48 <eglynn-office> k, let's leave that one open for now until Ilya can clarify if hbase will be included also
15:14:55 <ityaptin> eglynn: db2 is supported via  pymongo_base
15:15:33 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: overboard == will be done for kilo-3?
15:15:40 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: cool on db2
15:16:29 <ityaptin> eglynn-office: this CR is blocker https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86683/  for complex query on hbase now
15:16:54 * cdent sighs
15:17:08 <ityaptin> eglynn-office: because implementing mocked complex query for hbase, it is redundant work and waste of time
15:17:31 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: agreed
15:17:33 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: cool, got it, thanks!
15:17:53 <eglynn-office> k, moving on
15:18:00 <ityaptin> eglynn-office: Or, for example, we can remove hbase mock and test hbase manually like postgres and others.
15:18:36 <ildikov> ityaptin: I just wanted to ask, what if would do this
15:18:39 <ityaptin> eglynn-office while waiting for the patch will be merged
15:18:58 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: problem is can we rely on that ever being run manually?
15:19:19 <ityaptin> eglynn-office: yep
15:19:59 <ildikov> eglynn-office: it's not the only backend we don't have on the gate
15:20:23 <eglynn-office> mysql/psql versus sqlite is one thing, but no automated CI coverage at all for hbase would be a concern
15:20:30 <eglynn-office> ildikov: are you thinking db2?
15:21:29 <ildikov> eglynn-office: yeap
15:22:21 <ityaptin> ildikov, eglynn-office: Big part of db2 functional is covered by mongodb, but I have already looked patches which add uncovered functional
15:22:34 <ildikov> eglynn-office: and elasticsearch too IIRC
15:23:05 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: that's only partial coverage at best, amiright?
15:23:26 <ildikov> ityaptin: db2 is very similar to mongodb, but testing on mongo instead a real db2 is still just a workaround
15:23:41 <ildikov> instead *of*
15:24:10 <eglynn-office> ildikov: the intent was to include elasticsearch in the gate, but gordc ran into issues with ES not being in the blessed repos for trusty & fedora
15:24:31 <ildikov> eglynn-office: I remember the story
15:25:06 <eglynn-office> IMO ultimately we need all storage drivers either in the upstream gate or in 3rd party CI
15:25:06 <ildikov> eglynn-office: but all these things are not relevant for does it worth to have a mocked hbase in-tree, right?
15:25:20 <eglynn-office> ... or moved out-of-tree so no longer our problem
15:25:24 <ildikov> eglynn-office: that part I support
15:26:17 <eglynn-office> ildikov: the question is mocked habse versus someone taking it upon themselves to manually run the hbase tests periodically
15:26:29 * cdent perks ears at "moved out-of-tree"
15:26:37 <eglynn-office> ildikov: maybe the question should be ... mocked hbase versus third party CI
15:27:04 <ildikov> eglynn-office: third party CI
15:27:41 <eglynn-office> cdent: one idea would be to issue an ultimatum ... "who's interested in DB2 support? if you want it to stay in-tree, please provide 3rd party CI for it"
15:27:45 <ildikov> eglynn-office: TBH it does not make much sense to me to test against a mocked db, however all the against real db tests should go under a functional test folder
15:28:11 <ildikov> eglynn-office: but this would be a separate meeting topic
15:28:57 <eglynn-office> ildikov: yes and yes ... problem is that the "against real db tests" for hbase would have to skipped upstream currently
15:29:04 <ildikov> eglynn-office: so as a sum I support the third party CI and even the out-of-tree ideas, I don't see much point in maintaining big mocks
15:29:10 <eglynn-office> (IIRC hbase can't be installed on the upstream CI nodes)
15:29:25 <eglynn-office> ildikov: agreed, and I think that's ityaptin's feeling also
15:29:45 <eglynn-office> (on the not maintaining big mocks)
15:29:50 <ildikov> eglynn-office: sure, but we will not solve this problem right now, so let's see what we can do with the options that were mentioned here
15:30:24 <ildikov> eglynn-office: I mean starting it after the meeting :)
15:30:49 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: could Mirantis potentially provide 3rd party CI for hbase?
15:31:08 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: .... just one to think about, you don't need to answer yes/no right now
15:31:48 <ityaptin> eglynn-office: I make consultation with Dina and others.
15:32:05 <eglynn-office> ityaptin: excellent, thank you!
15:32:07 <eglynn-office> right, let's move on to asyncio
15:32:14 <eglynn-office> #topic Use of ceilometer for PoC of asyncio/trollius adoption
15:32:23 <eglynn-office> #link https://review.openstack.org/153298
15:32:37 <ildikov> eglynn-office: what is the timeframe of this PoC?
15:32:51 <eglynn-office> ildikov: Liberty
15:33:08 <ildikov> eglynn-office: are we the only candidate for this?
15:33:13 <eglynn-office> for context, cast your minds back to the midcycle in Paris last July
15:33:35 <eglynn-office> this was discussed esp. with the olso-messaging guys on the fringes of that midcycle
15:34:07 <eglynn-office> ildikov: both ceilo and oslo-messaging would the initial candidates for PoC
15:34:48 <ildikov> eglynn-office: I was just wondering if it will be too much for Ceilo or not, but I will need to check the spec more
15:35:29 <eglynn-office> haypo has shown a lot of tenacity in keeping this discussion current for many months, despite oppostion
15:35:36 <cdent> I would prefer to see a more narrow focus than the entire project
15:35:50 <cdent> perhaps just the notification agent or something like that
15:36:12 <cdent> and for sake of working around some of the debates, it should not involve any database access
15:36:17 <ildikov> eglynn-office: with the Gnocchi integration and all those feedback mails, I'm worried a bit TBH
15:36:30 <cdent> ildikov++
15:36:37 <linuxhermit> ++
15:37:02 <eglynn-office> cdent: doesn't the notification agent directly access the DB also?
15:37:10 <eglynn-office> cdent: ... i.e. for record_event_data
15:37:19 <ildikov> eglynn-office: so personally I would prefer not to the candidates or with a really narrow scope that cdent mentioned
15:37:28 <cdent> I thought record_event_data was rpc?
15:37:38 <cdent> (with gordcs fixes)
15:37:45 <ildikov> eglynn-office: as much as I can remember Gordon fixed that
15:37:49 <eglynn-office> cdent: a-ha, yeah
15:38:10 <cdent> so the collector and api are the database interactors
15:38:28 <cdent> (until/if the pipeline stuff gets integrated)
15:39:33 <eglynn-office> cdent: k, so perhaps a smaller scope might be workable to avoid DB access ... but IIRC the notification agent now uses tooz for group coordination?
15:39:51 * eglynn-office is thinking tooz usage == redis driver in production
15:40:50 <ildikov> eglynn-office: until when should we decide this?
15:40:56 <eglynn-office> seems that would require a change to tooz to use the asyncio-aware redis client?
15:41:08 <fabiog> cdent: the pipeline stuff wiil use the API to store/read so it won't change
15:41:18 <cdent> It's not so much about avoiding access to other services, but that Mike Bayer has demonstrated pretty consclusively that there's bigger fish to fry in the database handling world, and wants to fix it in oslo, so trying to leave that stuff out of scope.
15:41:33 <cdent> cool, thanks fabiog
15:41:45 <eglynn-office> cdent: ok, fair point
15:42:18 <eglynn-office> ildikov: there isn't a hard deadline, as that spec is not likely to land in the very near future
15:42:41 <cdent> asyncio + coordination doesn't really map well in my limited brain.
15:42:42 <eglynn-office> ildikov: ... however it would be good to reach a team consensus and express that in the gerrit review
15:43:15 * cdent will drop some comments on the review
15:43:25 <eglynn-office> cdent: thanks
15:43:33 <ildikov> eglynn-office: we do not really have many cores around now, so I would suggest to revisit this question
15:43:47 <eglynn-office> ildikov: yeap
15:44:18 <ildikov> eglynn-office: I'm still worried, maybe after checking the spec and book of review comments I will be less worried
15:44:58 <eglynn-office> sounds like folks on today are concerned by the risks/impact involved in a widely scoped changeover to asyncio
15:45:04 <eglynn-office> but I suspect more support would be forthcoming from a couple of the cores who not on the meeting today
15:45:05 <cdent> ildikov: it's unfortunate but I think we need to keep a fair balance between making stuff work and generating hype and engagement from outside the project
15:45:24 <cdent> and something like asyncio will generate some hype
15:45:32 <cdent> which is lame, but life
15:45:39 <eglynn-office> cdent: true and true
15:46:26 <ildikov> cdent: but we need positive operator feedback mmuch more than happy fellow projects around IMHO, and being lab rats does not seem to give this to us
15:47:10 <cdent> ildikov: I mostly agree, but on the other hand it seems most operators have given up on us
15:47:14 <ildikov> cdent: but you can count this fear on my female genes ;)
15:47:15 <linuxhermit> ildikov: ++
15:47:32 <linuxhermit> cdent: we haven
15:47:34 <linuxhermit> t
15:47:49 <mmester> I think most of the operators are still stuck on database issues related to performance
15:47:50 <cdent> that's because you're a dear sweet friend linuxhermit  ;)
15:47:52 <mmester> at least we are
15:47:55 <eglynn-office> linuxhermit: that's good to hear
15:47:59 <ildikov> cdent: if that would be true then everyone would need to look for another project right this moment
15:48:35 <linuxhermit> mmester: it's a problem but we've got work arounds
15:49:04 <eglynn-office> linuxhermit: I'd love to hear more about your production setup
15:49:12 <ildikov> cdent: I'm just saying that we need to start making the customers happy in order to not starve to death, that's life too
15:49:30 <eglynn-office> (within the bounds of what can be publicly disclosed of course)
15:49:37 <mmester> +1
15:49:52 <ildikov> cdent: but I don't want to argue about this, but someone has to list the concerns too in order to make a reasonable decision
15:50:08 <linuxhermit> let me find out how much I can share
15:50:19 <eglynn-office> linuxhermit: excellent, thank you!
15:50:26 <linuxhermit> but we = Cisco
15:50:38 <mmester> :)
15:50:43 <cdent> No need to argue about ildikov, I fundamentally agree with you.
15:50:44 <ildikov> linuxhermit: thanks in advance for the feedback even if that well be pretty short
15:50:45 <eglynn-office> coolness :)
15:50:51 <linuxhermit> so yeah... we have many different things between Cisco Cloud Services, Metacloud, and On premise
15:51:04 <mmester> linuxhermit me = cisco too
15:51:16 <ildikov> cdent: cool :)
15:51:20 <linuxhermit> mmester: which part
15:51:27 <mmester> OSS
15:51:35 <mmester> CCS
15:52:26 <eglynn-office> #topic gnocchi status
15:52:31 <eglynn-office> I think most of the folks directly involved are not on today, so let's punt this one
15:52:41 <eglynn-office> #topic open-discussion
15:53:04 <eglynn-office> anyone got conference sessions they'd like to promote here?
15:53:15 * cdent is very happy with the very quick progress on improving the postgresql testing situation
15:53:15 <eglynn-office> vote solicitation is part of the game
15:53:21 <cdent> me:
15:53:44 <cdent> https://www.openstack.org/vote-vancouver/presentation/apis-matter
15:54:30 <eglynn-office> nice!
15:54:42 <ildikov> cdent: good one :)
15:55:09 <linuxhermit> https://www.openstack.org/vote-vancouver/presentation/stabilizing-the-jenga-tower-scaling-out-ceilometer
15:55:31 <linuxhermit> it's not me
15:55:36 <gordc> https://www.openstack.org/vote-vancouver/presentation/the-anatomy-of-an-action
15:55:41 <linuxhermit> but it looks awesome and one of the cisco people is going it
15:55:54 <gordc> linuxhermit: and me! :)
15:55:56 <eglynn-office> wow, gordc waring a suit and tie?!!
15:56:01 <linuxhermit> and you!
15:56:04 <gordc> lol
15:56:07 <eglynn-office> ... say it ain't so! :)
15:56:07 <mmester> https://www.openstack.org/vote-vancouver/presentation/ceilometer-and-the-oss-experience
15:56:07 <gordc> brother's wedding.
15:56:16 <gordc> i'm a suit
15:56:23 <eglynn-office> LOL :)
15:56:23 <linuxhermit> ha
15:57:03 <eglynn-office> coolness, I'd encourage everyone to vote early & often for these proposals
15:57:27 <eglynn-office> ... even if the voting isn't the only determinant of success
15:58:05 * gordc reading logs
15:58:10 <eglynn-office> (which I disagree with TBH, should be either a pure vote or a track chair decision, not a weird mixture of both)
15:58:10 <gordc> i assume all is well
15:58:37 <gordc> i pretty sure the vote button isn't connected to anything.
15:58:38 <eglynn-office> right, shotclock is against us folks
15:59:04 <eglynn-office> gordc: you cynic, you!
15:59:11 <gordc> :)
15:59:16 <mmester> lol
15:59:29 <eglynn-office> k, thanks for you time folks, let's call it a wrap
15:59:35 <linuxhermit> cya all thank you
15:59:36 <gordc> laters!
15:59:38 <eglynn-office> #endmeeting ceilometer