21:02:56 <eglynn> #startmeeting ceilometer
21:02:57 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Oct 23 21:02:56 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:02:57 <thomasem> That's a sad time.
21:02:58 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:03:00 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'
21:03:05 <eglynn> jd__ is on vacation so I'll fight with the ircbot this week ...
21:03:12 <eglynn> (here's hoping no-one calls for a vote on anything ... ;))
21:03:15 <dhellmann> o/
21:03:17 <terriyu> o/
21:03:19 <lsmola> hello
21:03:20 <asalkeld> o/
21:03:20 <nealph> o/
21:03:20 <thomasem> You will win where we previously failed.
21:03:23 <thomasem> o/
21:03:29 <gordc> o/
21:03:45 <eglynn> any more hands to go up?
21:04:06 <eglynn> right-o, let's dig into the agenda items ...
21:04:15 <eglynn> #topic Ceilometer errors in tempest runs
21:04:26 <dhellmann> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MeteringAgenda
21:04:26 <eglynn> or "when can we stop using sqlalchemy as the default backend in devstack" ;)
21:04:40 <eglynn> dhellmann the floor is your's ...
21:04:46 <dhellmann> I thought sileht worked out what to do about that already
21:04:58 <eglynn> yeah we discussed this a while back on IRC with sileht & jd__ IIRC
21:05:05 <dhellmann> ok
21:05:06 <nealph> can you summarize?
21:05:08 <eglynn> we should be able to switch back to mongodb as the default in devstack
21:05:17 <eglynn> (as mongodb-server 2.4.x has hit the ubuntu cloud archive)
21:05:21 <dhellmann> ftr, it looks like what we need to do is increase some of the defaults for pool sizes
21:05:23 * eglynn digs for the log ...
21:05:24 * dhellmann looks for the review link
21:05:36 <eglynn> #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-metering/%23openstack-metering.2013-10-02.log
21:05:41 <dhellmann> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/53396/
21:06:00 <gordc> dhellmann: should we be increasing them in ceilometer code?
21:06:16 <dhellmann> gordc: we want ceilometer's defaults to be useful out of the box
21:06:22 <eglynn> dhellmann: well that may solve one issue with using sqlalchemy, but there are others
21:06:33 <eglynn> dhellmann: for example the lack of support for metaquery
21:06:38 <dhellmann> eglynn: ok, this was the one I knew about :-)
21:06:48 <dhellmann> that should just result in skipped tests, right?
21:06:51 <eglynn> (needed by horizon and ceilo alarming, possibly other too ...)
21:06:53 <gordc> i'm kind of torn on that personally... because the defaults we set may or maynot work based on how many meters the environment is capturing.
21:07:16 <eglynn> well /me thinks we should be defaulting to our most feature complete storage backend
21:07:18 <dhellmann> gordc: sure. but the tempest environment is very very small, so our standard defaults are clearly not enough
21:07:27 <eglynn> and the one that distros are likely to recommend for production
21:07:43 <dhellmann> eglynn: sure. we need to figure out how to get the right version of mongodb into devstack then
21:07:52 <eglynn> dhellmann: yep, exactly
21:08:05 <gordc> dhellmann: i guess... what's setting the defaults currently? the sqlalchemy code from oslo?
21:08:07 <thomasem> Wouldn't that be mongodb-10gen? I'm not sure how ubiquitous that is.
21:08:18 <eglynn> dhellmann: so according to sileht, mongodb-server 2.4.0 is now in the ubuntu cloud archive
21:08:23 <eglynn> (as per IRC link above)
21:08:33 <dhellmann> eglynn: ok, does that mean the devstack gates will install it?
21:08:41 <eglynn> previously IIRC the prob was that it was only availble for precise from the 10-gen repo
21:08:41 <dhellmann> gordc: yes
21:08:51 <eglynn> dhellmann: yep, it did up to now
21:08:53 <dhellmann> eglynn: yes, that's right
21:09:04 <eglynn> dhellmann: sorry, up to being disabled as the default
21:09:07 <dhellmann> ok, well, I think we should go for both then
21:09:26 <thomasem> Oh, I see. Yeah, like I run on Debian and the .deb for mongodb on Squeeze was <2.2.
21:09:40 <thomasem> So, I have to use mongodb-10gen when I swap to that backend.
21:09:50 <dhellmann> right, developer environments are OK because we can write instructions for upgrading
21:09:56 <thomasem> yep
21:09:56 <eglynn> yep, so I'll follow up with sileht on that again tmrw on how to enable grabbing from the cloud archive
21:10:03 <dhellmann> but the automated environment has different rules, so we need to make sure we're allowed to require the package
21:10:14 <dhellmann> eglynn: sounds good
21:10:36 <eglynn> the infra folks didn't want us to require a package from the 10-gen repo IIRC
21:10:40 <dhellmann> do we also want to accept a patch to raise the defaults?
21:10:46 <dhellmann> eglynn: yes, that's right
21:10:48 <eglynn> but now we should be to switch back
21:10:50 <dhellmann> cloud archive may be ok
21:11:03 <eglynn> be ok to switch back, yep exactly
21:11:14 <dhellmann> eglynn: we should probably do some work to figure out how out of sync the drivers are w.r.t. features
21:11:23 <dhellmann> because I think the mongo driver does not deal with events, right?
21:11:32 <eglynn> dhellmann: yep agreed
21:11:33 <dhellmann> maybe I missed that being added, though
21:11:43 <thomasem> dhellmann, there are reviews up for it
21:11:50 <gordc> dhellmann: i'm ok with raising defaults.... only thing is the tests i ran, we can/have way more than 10 sessions running at any given time.
21:11:53 <thomasem> let me snag them
21:11:53 <dhellmann> would be good to go through before the summit
21:11:58 <eglynn> there's a patch in the review queue also to add metaquery to sqlalchemy
21:12:08 <thomasem> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49548/
21:12:19 <thomasem> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49456/
21:12:23 <eglynn> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49456/
21:12:28 <eglynn> snap! :)
21:12:30 <thomasem> ;)
21:12:42 <dhellmann> gordc: we can work out the actual values through gerrit discussion; I don't know the right answer there
21:12:54 <gordc> dhellmann: cool cool.
21:13:16 <eglynn> so this will bite us again I think unless we become firmer re. feature parity between the drivers
21:13:35 <dhellmann> eglynn: yeah, I think that should be a goal for icehouse
21:13:37 <thomasem> eglynn, +1
21:14:01 <eglynn> and where we don't have parity, we need a very clear statement of that
21:14:01 <dhellmann> we should do something to specify which parts of the driver API are related, maybe with separate base classes or something to hold the interfaces?
21:14:22 <eglynn> i.e. the implications of chosing a storage backend in terms of what stops working
21:14:31 <eglynn> dhellmann: yep, that would make sense
21:14:50 <dhellmann> eglynn: we could also look at some of the interface description libraries other than abc
21:14:59 <thomasem> Yeah. The tests can be a good source for that. If your driver can't pass this series of tests, it's out of compliance. Sort of like that timestamp ordering one.
21:15:13 <dhellmann> but I feel like we have a lot of "this method is implemented, but not all aspects of it work" kinds of differences
21:15:14 <thomasem> for resources
21:15:22 <dhellmann> especially with variations on queries
21:16:07 <dhellmann> so we might want to think about whether it makes sense to split those out into separate methods, for clarity
21:16:24 <dhellmann> I hate even suggesting that, though :-/
21:16:50 <thomasem> dhellmann, I'm not sure I follow.
21:17:04 <dhellmann> nova has separate methods like "find resource by id" and "find resource by name"
21:17:07 <eglynn> yeah, its a non-trivial question, how best to capture the functional requirements imposed on the storage driver by various features
21:17:10 <dhellmann> we have "find resource" with optional parameters
21:17:20 <dhellmann> and then in some drivers one of the parameters doesn't work, so we raise NotImplemented
21:17:52 <eglynn> yep, suddenly pagination or metaquery blows up when you switch drivers
21:17:59 <dhellmann> that's a simplistic example, the real example is more like we don't support a particular way of querying against the metadata associated with an event in some cases but not in others
21:18:06 <dhellmann> right
21:18:06 <thomasem> I see. Yeah, that's difficult to say which would be deserving of that or not. Some are just simply filters, others may have completely different query structures.
21:18:38 <dhellmann> we don't want to say we can't add features until all the drivers work, but we should probably say that at least one driver must always have all of the features
21:18:48 <dhellmann> and pick a single driver to be the main or default or whatever
21:18:51 <thomasem> In any case, you could get a bit clever with your tests and see that the method behaves the same across drivers.
21:18:54 <eglynn> dhellmann: +1
21:19:00 <dhellmann> that used to be mongo, until we had a bunch of people not wanting to use it add features :-)
21:19:04 * dhellmann looks at sandywalsh
21:19:15 <thomasem> Lol, he's on a plane right now, I'd imagine.
21:19:31 <eglynn> +1 for maintaining mongo as the canonical driver
21:19:31 <dhellmann> thomasem: we do, in fact, run the same test code against all of the drivers
21:19:47 <thomasem> dhellmann, I know. What I meant was flesh out in the tests what a compliant driver looks like.
21:19:58 <dhellmann> I would go along with that, or even with sqlalchemy, but either way we should pick one
21:19:59 <thomasem> with what*
21:20:23 <dhellmann> thomasem: ok, I'm not clear on what you're suggesting we would do different
21:20:36 <dhellmann> drivers are allowed to raise NotImplementedError for missing features, and the tests just skip
21:20:37 <thomasem> dhellmann, Not different, just ore of. :)
21:20:45 <dhellmann> ah, ok, yes to more testing :-)
21:20:48 <thomasem> dhellmann, Take that timestamp ordering test for example.
21:21:10 <eglynn> how about we try to grab an unconference slot for this discussion at summit?
21:21:14 <nealph> that would provide a reference point...but would we then require those adding new drivers to update mongo with any missing functionality?
21:21:14 <eglynn> (to involve the RAX folks with skin in the game re. events)
21:21:23 <nealph> +1 on the session
21:21:43 * eglynn is assuming events is the main incomplete aspect of mongo currently
21:21:44 <dhellmann> eglynn: not a proper conference session in the ceilometer room? are we out of slots?
21:21:54 <gordc> eglynn: did we figure out how many slots we have at summit?
21:22:07 <eglynn> gordc: 11 last I heard
21:22:09 * thomasem is becoming sadder by the second that he can't join y'all.
21:22:10 <dhellmann> nealph: yes, the idea would be all new features have to land in mongo if they are added to another storage driver
21:22:19 <dhellmann> or, if not mongo, the driver we do agree on
21:22:35 <eglynn> dhellmann: +1
21:22:41 <dragondm> dhellmann: me& sandywalsh will be there @ hk. I'm up for an unconf session.
21:22:52 <eglynn> dragondm: cool
21:23:08 <eglynn> should we move on?
21:23:19 <dhellmann> eglynn: why an unconference session, instead of a regular session?
21:23:34 <eglynn> dhellmann: I'd be up for either
21:23:39 <nealph> 15 proposals so far....some trimming already needed.
21:23:45 <dhellmann> I'll propose one on this
21:23:52 <eglynn> dhellmann:
21:23:55 <eglynn> dhellmann: cool!
21:23:59 <eglynn> #topic summit update
21:24:00 <gordc> nealph: there's a few regarding api so i would think they could be merged.
21:24:25 <dragondm> eglynn: dhellmann:, I'd be up for either. I'm sure sandy would as well.
21:24:25 <eglynn> on the subject of HK, the ceilo track for the design sessions will be finalized shortly by jd__
21:24:37 <nealph> too late to propose another?
21:24:41 <eglynn> we're over-subscribed, so I suspect there will be some merged sessions
21:24:59 <eglynn> (some obvious candidates for merging among the proposals)
21:25:06 <dhellmann> #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/355
21:25:42 <eglynn> dhellmann: thanks!
21:25:53 <eglynn> so jd__ will be finalizing the approved sessions and pushing the schedule to sched.org shortly
21:26:09 <eglynn> (this time round, IIUC the design summit and conference will have completely separate schedules)
21:26:20 <eglynn> and apparently run in different buildings too ...
21:26:38 <dhellmann> I think it's separate floors of the same building, but a very very large building
21:26:47 <dhellmann> there is quite a distance between the two spaces, I think
21:26:51 <eglynn> a-ha, ok
21:26:59 <eglynn> (apparently some of the other projects had problems before with randomers showing up at design sessions)
21:27:03 <dhellmann> that wasn't entirely clear from ttx yesterday, though, so I could have that wrong
21:27:12 * eglynn doesn't remember it being an issue with ceilo though
21:27:13 <nealph> that should be interesting...I've seen only a couple of cm-specific conference talks though.
21:27:14 <dhellmann> yeah, the nova room in particular was packed
21:27:49 <gordc> what constitutes a 'randomer'? non-contributer?
21:27:59 <dhellmann> it's a shame I'm going to have to miss so many of the ceilometer sessions to be in the oslo room
21:28:06 <dragondm> makes me wonder if the design summit & conference shouldn't be 2 separate events altogether...
21:28:15 <dhellmann> gordc: yeah, we had non-atc folks clogging up the doorways
21:28:21 <eglynn> gordc: good question, maybe a business-y type in a suit? ... I dunno
21:28:26 <dhellmann> dragondm: "bringing developers and users together"...
21:28:38 <gordc> dhellmann: gotcha.
21:28:53 <dragondm> heh, ok I guess there's a point there :->
21:28:54 <gordc> eglynn: i'll remember to lose the suit ;)
21:29:07 <eglynn> anyway last I heard our track runs from late Tuesday afternoon, thru' all day Wed, into Thursday morning
21:29:31 <eglynn> (no doubt y'all are planning your schedules for the week ...)
21:29:31 <dhellmann> eglynn: yeah, that's what it looks like on the latest layout form I've been given
21:29:52 <eglynn> dhellmann: yep, partially clashing with oslo
21:30:18 <dhellmann> I think we overlap for 5-6 sessions
21:30:23 <dragondm> Oy.
21:30:30 <dhellmann> yeah, I won't be there for much of wednesday
21:30:31 <eglynn> dhellmann: so if that "Feature parity in storage drivers" session is approved
21:30:50 <eglynn> dhellmann: (we'd want it to be shceduled for a non-overlap-with-oslo slot)
21:30:53 <dhellmann> yeah, jd__ will have to juggle a bit
21:31:00 <eglynn> yeap
21:31:02 <dhellmann> as I've done for the sessions he proposed for oslo :-)
21:31:41 <dhellmann> it looks like he has 6 slots to work with for that, so shouldn't be an issue
21:31:48 <eglynn> cool, intra-PTL horse trading ;)
21:32:25 <dhellmann> :-)
21:32:35 <eglynn> just a quick reminder also that jd__, nijaba_ & myself are doing a conference session on ceilo+heat=alarming at 14.20 on Friday
21:32:38 * dragondm is now imagining jd_- juggling horses...
21:32:49 <eglynn> #link http://openstacksummitnovember2013.sched.org/event/02a1ea504b3dec538eaedca5e31461ed
21:32:59 <thomasem> How amusing!
21:33:01 <eglynn> ... we got the graveyard shift ;)
21:33:09 <gordc> eglynn: was just going to ask for link
21:33:34 <eglynn> BTW do we want to pre-arrange a ceilo evening meet-up?
21:33:48 <eglynn> I guess we could just glom onto the eNovance event on the thursday evening ...
21:33:59 * eglynn is a freeloader ;)
21:34:19 <eglynn> #link http://openstacksummitnovember2013.sched.org/event/6d7b3e0f9778fa675cd7f0ea56becba3
21:34:49 <eglynn> if memory serves we talked about doing a social event at Portland
21:35:02 <eglynn> but everyone had too many other parties to go to ...
21:35:25 <dhellmann> we could plan to meet at the enovance party :-)
21:35:36 * gordc is down for a party.
21:35:41 <eglynn> cool, sounds like a plan
21:35:42 <dhellmann> oops, should have read the backlog :-)
21:36:04 * terriyu wonders what developer parties are like
21:36:36 <dragondm> Depends on th budget :_>
21:36:41 <gordc> terriyu: lasers.
21:36:51 <thomasem> terriyu, unicorns
21:37:19 <eglynn> yep a lot depends on the budget
21:37:28 <eglynn> unicorns are expensive ;)
21:37:34 <terriyu> are you guys going to pull that trick where you tell me to wear certain clothes and I'm only one who shows up to the party dressed that way?
21:37:34 <gordc> thomasem: that's all you need unicorn and lasers :)... never been to one myself so looking forward to it.
21:38:04 <dragondm> Just the horse mask.
21:38:04 <dhellmann> haha
21:38:11 <thomasem> This is the truth. Because if you can actually get a unicorn, you've probably already had enough to drink.
21:38:20 <dhellmann> we usually wear meter reader uniforms, right?
21:38:26 <thomasem> LOL
21:38:49 <eglynn> yep, with matching peaked caps, very fetching :)
21:38:52 <thomasem> I just imagined that. It was amazing. Will y'all do a synchronized dance too?
21:39:07 <dhellmann> ooo, if not this time, definitely in the spring
21:39:21 * dhellmann wants to see jd__ leading us in a line dance on stage
21:39:28 * thomasem does too.
21:40:21 <eglynn> #action jd__ choreograph a line dance for summit
21:40:22 * dhellmann can't wait to hear jd__'s reaction after reading the meeting log from this week
21:40:26 <dhellmann> haha
21:40:37 <thomasem> I'm sure it'll be grand. :)
21:40:49 <terriyu> sorry to lead everyone off topic, I guess this is what happens when jd__ is not here ;)
21:40:53 <dhellmann> eglynn, did we have anything else on the agenda?
21:40:55 <eglynn> #topic any other business
21:41:14 <eglynn> or open discussion as its known around these parts ...
21:41:17 <terriyu> I saw something on the agenda about release python-ceilometerclient
21:41:23 <terriyu> I don't know if that is still relevant
21:41:27 <dhellmann> that's a recurring topic
21:41:36 <dhellmann> we should verify that there's no need for an update, though
21:41:38 <eglynn> ah yes
21:41:39 <eglynn> #topic release python-ceiloclient?
21:41:40 <dhellmann> I don't think so, is there?
21:41:49 <eglynn> don't thinks it's required
21:41:55 <dhellmann> seconded
21:41:57 <eglynn> the patch to update the global requirements to 1.0.6 finally landed
21:41:59 <gordc> eglynn: something went in ... i don't remember what it was
21:42:13 <eglynn> so that 1.0.6 could be pulled in by heat & ceilo itself
21:42:21 <eglynn> (the latter for the alarm evaluator)
21:42:32 <gordc> eglynn: nm unit test fix.
21:42:48 <eglynn> gordc: a-ha ok
21:43:06 <eglynn> so no need to re-release then for a test update
21:43:15 <gordc> agreed
21:43:27 <eglynn> #topic open discussion
21:43:39 * eglynn has had fun this week kicking the tyres on the new horizon admin metering panel
21:43:49 <eglynn> props to lsmola for getting that landed for havana! :)
21:44:00 <eglynn> found a few nits but should all be nicely ironed out before 2013.2.1
21:44:10 <eglynn> (i.e. first release off stable/havana)
21:44:26 <lsmola> eglynn, cool
21:44:31 <thomasem> Oh, that's awesome. I'll have to go check that out.
21:44:41 <eglynn> also related to the UX ...
21:45:02 <eglynn> one of the women-in-openstack intership ideas for icehouse is sparklines capturing the recent trend for resources
21:45:06 <terriyu> is the new metering panel also in devstack?
21:45:20 <eglynn> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OutreachProgramForWomen/Ideas#Sparklines_in_Horizon
21:45:24 <dhellmann> cool
21:45:37 <dhellmann> terriyu: it should be, if it's in horizon
21:45:40 <eglynn> terriyu: it's in havana, so defo on master
21:45:51 <lsmola> terriyu, yes I install it via devstack
21:45:52 <eglynn> terriyu: (note though, admin only for now)
21:46:14 <eglynn> terriyu: (not visible if you log in as a joe-soap user)
21:46:25 <terriyu> cool, thanks for the info guys
21:46:43 <terriyu> eglynn: cool intern project, thanks for pointing it out
21:47:29 <eglynn> terriyu: yeah, could be quite neat visual candy for new users
21:47:49 <eglynn> (possible on-ramp to more folks paying attention to ceilo ...)
21:47:51 <terriyu> eglynn: I hope one of the interns picks that project :)
21:48:01 <eglynn> terriyu: yep, me too!
21:48:15 <lsmola> it would be cool
21:48:29 <eglynn> not much else from me ...
21:48:40 <eglynn> oh, one other thing
21:48:49 <terriyu> lsmola: since you're a mentor, you can drop by #openstack-opw and say hi to the applicants
21:48:49 <eglynn> last 'normal' release off stable/grizzly ... https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/2013.1.4
21:49:11 <eglynn> from now on, stable/grizzly will prolly be limited to security fixes
21:49:34 <gordc> eglynn: did we resolve the havana wsme issue?
21:49:38 <lsmola> terriyu, I am already there, but i did't say hi :-)
21:49:41 <eglynn> please continue to tag havana bugs though for stable/havana if appropriate
21:49:58 <lsmola> terriyu, more like waiting for some questions :-)
21:50:13 <terriyu> lsmola: ok, I'll try to direct some applicants your way
21:50:15 <eglynn> gordc: we pinned the dependency version to < 5.5b6 IIRC
21:50:31 <lsmola> terriyu, ok, cool
21:50:50 <gordc> eglynn: ah cool cool. i'll take a look. i just remembered we had a bunch of havana patches sitting around.
21:51:35 <eglynn> gordc: (that was on stable/grizzly that the wsme version is limited, on master we're up to latest I think)
21:52:18 <gordc> eglynn: right... i guess i was mostly wondering about this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52426/
21:52:35 <eglynn> gordc: here's the exact change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52348/3/tools/pip-requires
21:53:10 <eglynn> gordc: ouch, didn;t realize that wasn't merged
21:53:29 <gordc> eglynn: yeah... i don't think we ever resolved stable/havana
21:53:55 <eglynn> gordc: OK, thanks for the heads-up, I'll look into that tmrw
21:54:00 <gordc> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52602/ is just sitting there.
21:54:22 <gordc> (apologies to everyone for bringing this up late... just remembered)
21:54:51 <gordc> eglynn: cool, i'll sync up with you on that tomorrow... see what we've decided.
21:54:55 <eglynn> np! I'll try to upick that gordian knot tmrw ...
21:55:02 <dhellmann> gordc: better late than never!
21:55:53 <eglynn> right-o, coming up near the end of our timeslot
21:56:04 <eglynn> anything else anyone wants to raise?
21:56:24 <eglynn> going once ...
21:56:35 <eglynn> going twice ...
21:56:49 <eglynn> #endmeeting ceilometer